Will Sun and Moon suck?

[SeanWheeler]

I really don't like the news about Pokémon Sun and Moon recently. When it was first announced, I was really excited. I even bought a 2DS so that I could play X and Alpha Sapphire before getting Sun. The biggest problem I have is the anime. Ash's design really downgraded from XY and his pose in the poster is really dorky. And he is going to school to "graduate like know one ever has." Ash going to school? Really? A series about him traveling the world has to settle him in school? And no sign of Serena so far despite her crush on Ash got many people back to the series.

And for the games, apparently there is no gyms. Despite being a staple of the main series for 20 years. I sure hope we're wrong and there is still eight gyms. But if there's no gyms, that would mean we will still have no Dark gym. And for the Alola forms, they are okay but the question is if we will see their regular forms? The only times we saw regular forms for Pokémon confirmed with Alola varients was when they showed Ken Sugimori art for comparison. Where's the Mega Evolution? Will the games still have Megas? Is there going to be any cross-gen evolutions of any kind? Is the day/night cycle version specific? The Poké Rides are a cool concept, but shouldn't we be able to ride our own Pokémon instead of using a service?

Well it is two months too soon to judge Sun and Moon and I won't cancel the pre-order of Sun just because I don't like some things and believe it is going to get more criticisms than Black and White, though I kind of liked Black and White. While some changes can be good, removing stuff people like about Pokémon and changing the anime premise probably wouldn't go too well.

Anyway, do you think Sun and Moon will get harsh criticisms? I sure hope it isn't as bad as I'm making it right now, but the negatives and possibly controversal elements do need to be addressed.

 

[Zeb]

Anime isn't really relevant to the games, so I don't really see that as having any sort of influence on the games quality or reception.

As for the games: even if they do somehow end up being worse (I don't see them being any worse than the last few games that's for sure), I'd be proud of Game Freak for at least taking some risks and changing things up. They've sat on their laurels far too long and churned out too many similar games over the years. There's been little progression or risk-changing to the overall formula. The changes look good so far and I'm happy to see what they're doing - even if the games do end up sucking I'm not going to fault them trying when these sort of different approaches needed to happen generations ago. At this point some fans are too used to the "norm" of 20 years of same-y stuff and that's why these changes feel too much to some.

I find the complaints about trials and wanting gyms back kinda baffling. Trials really aren't that different from gyms. You still battle a boss of that type (totem), you still have a challenge before it (the trial captain's... trial) and you get a Crystal for a Z-Move instead of a TM. People are getting too hung up on the name and not looking at what they actually involve. And what they involve is really not a massive departure from gyms, just a different way of doing them.

And can't say I have any criticisms of Poke Ride at all if it means I don't have to handicap my team by carrying a HM slave with Cut and Rock Smash to actually visit all the areas in the game.

I honestly don't think the games will suck. But of course until we play them no one can say for sure.

 

[Desdar300]

The games are getting major praise from fans and non fans alike so I personally doubt it. I'm personally glad GF is finally changing up the formula because it not only keeps things interesting while making the games stick out among all the other Pokémon. Lastly, I'm not sure what the anime has to do with a gaming thread but it really had no choice but to change since the games themselves did.

 

[PinkIceFox]

I highly doubt the games are going to suck. And I haven't really watched the anime in a while and since they're separate things the anime doesn't have any merit on my enjoyment of the games.

I'm still highly excited to play Moon Version.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

Too early to consider Sun and Moon awful or the best games ever. However, from what I have seen so far, they look like excellent games to play.

 

[SeanWheeler]

I still hope the gyms would be back. It's just not a Pokémon game without gyms.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

I still hope the gyms would be back. It's just not a Pokémon game without gyms.

Remakes is a certain. Island trials seem to be an Alola thing since Alola is made up of islands. Who knows if other games would have trials or not?

 

[Peachy]

It's impossible to pass judgment on games that aren't even out yet. But I will say, that even if SM aren't good, I will like them so much more than XY. SM looks like they're actually taking a risk and trying to change things up to make the series fresh again. And XY was just more of the same, and it just felt stale to me. A Frankenstein's Monster of what worked in previous games cut up and shoved all into one set of games with out consideration as to why those features were good in the first place.

 

[Lanstar]

I have a feeling that that the Sun and Moon games won't be very bad at all. There are points to why I think this:

- The franchise appears to have major competition in Japan in the form of Yokai Watch. The way they are reinnovating the games and changing up the features, it seems like they are really upping their game to compete even more against that series.

- The features they have shown really tell me that they are listening to the fan base. Character customization, a more scaled out world, even Pokemon Snap features ingame are things I'm noticing a lot of fans are really looking foreward to.

- The quality of the Anime rarely ever reflects the quality of the games at all. I've heard many view Gen. II was the golden age of the Video games, yet it was the dark, really dark age of the Anime.

- Gyms were an over used mechanic in the games, and they became very repetitive. Their removal this generation will be a true breath of fresh air in the game play. I'll bet that if you put a poll here on how people viewed removing gyms from the games for the time being, not many would have minded it at all.

Of course, I wouldn't bet money on if they really will flop, but I'd be really surprised if they did, with everything they have revealed so far.

 

[Esserise]

The anime is a separate entity from the games. Whatever direction they choose to go in with the anime should not be a factor in any critical review of SM, period. Anime-related issues are to be taken up with the anime producers.

As for the Gyms, I'll say again, it's about time they did something different. In two whole decades, Gyms only ever deviated from the standard formula about four times (Clair sending you on a post-battle fetch quest (which, come to think of it, is kind of like a Trial in reverse), Blue using no type specialty, Liza & Tate being a Double Battle, and the Striaton Brothers being determined by your Starter choice). That's a long time to go with minimal variance. Reworking it so that the checkpoints are grouped into sets of Trials and Totem Battles (which due to the Totem's aura boosting their stats and the S.O.S. partners giving them a numbers advantage already look to be more complex than Gym Battles, which you could generally blitz through as long as you had a type advantage), which are then capped by Kahuna battles, creates a refreshing change while still retaining the fundamental concepts.

Criticizing for not being able to ride "our" Pokémon specifically just feels like splitting hairs to me; it's the same end result whether they're rentals or not.

We probably won't see the regular forms of Pokémon with Alola Forms in these games specifically. But given that they appear to be limited to Gen I Pokémon, we've had a good twenty years to use those regular forms anyway.

Megas aren't the hot new thing on the block anymore. I'm sure they'll be in the games, or if not these ones, then the next ones, but they have bigger things to show off right now.

And yes, they day/night cycle is version-specific. That was demonstrated in the trailer.

I predict that SM will be quite highly acclaimed for finally doing something different with the franchise's stale old formulae. BW were praised for the same - having a more involved story and shedding some of the series's worn-out conventions. They appear to be doing the same here and in more drastic and dynamic ways than before; it's all innovative, and that's what a series as old as this one needs in order to keep going. Could it fail? Sure, there's a possibility of that, but I think we'll only find ourselves in that position if the changes lead to frustrating or unwieldy gameplay that isn't fun or engaging.

I mean, I like XY a lot more than probably quite a few people here, but even I feel the stagnation when playing them. But seeing what SM are bringing to the table, I can at least amend my description of XY as "stagnant" to "transitory." Something that was necessary, in part to introduce some of the new concepts and features, but also to tide us over while they paved the road for SM, which could truly capitalize on the 3DS's capabilities.

 

[Mew2]

From what I've seen, I highly doubt that Sun/Moon will be bad. Don't let the animé fool you. It's quality, or lack thereof depending on how you see it, has nothing to do with the quality of the games. Look at the story of Best Wishes (animé) versus Black and White. The difference is night and day.

 

[Osprey]

I really don't like the news about Pokémon Sun and Moon recently. When it was first announced, I was really excited. I even bought a 2DS so that I could play X and Alpha Sapphire before getting Sun. The biggest problem I have is the anime.

Which has absolutely no influence on the games themselves.

Ash's design really downgraded from XY and his pose in the poster is really dorky. And he is going to school to "graduate like know one ever has." Ash going to school? Really? A series about him traveling the world has to settle him in school? And no sign of Serena so far despite her crush on Ash got many people back to the series.

It looks like a shift in art style. This "school," as some people have suggested, may be a hands-on education of Alolan traditions and environment, giving him a good excuse to do those island challenges and seek out new forms of Pokemon. Traveling the world hasn't done jack in terms of making him smarter or more victorious, so a logical solution is to LEARN more about what you're dealing with (Pokemon) so you can get better.
... Plus there needs to be some kind of justification since the League isn't a thing, ha.
We're talking about a one-sided crush that Ash barely seems to be aware of and is going absolutely nowhere. If people can be drawn in by something that weak, I'm pretty sure something new can make up the difference.

And for the games, apparently there is no gyms. Despite being a staple of the main series for 20 years. I sure hope we're wrong and there is still eight gyms. But if there's no gyms, that would mean we will still have no Dark gym.

I don't think the lack of a Dark gym is going to make or break a game.

And for the Alola forms, they are okay but the question is if we will see their regular forms? The only times we saw regular forms for Pokémon confirmed with Alola varients was when they showed Ken Sugimori art for comparison.

If Pokemon work anything like real-life animals, then the 'mons we find in Alola will be in Alolan form, and anything transferred will keep its old form. The variants exist because they adapted to their environment over time, it's not like just BEING there makes them morph like a forme change...

Where's the Mega Evolution? Will the games still have Megas?

I've seen so many people complain about Megas that I'm not too sure that there will be major backlash if they're left out. >__>

Is there going to be any cross-gen evolutions of any kind?

Gen VI had a grand total of one and Gen V had none at all.

Is the day/night cycle version specific?

Pretty sure that was confirmed already.

The Poké Rides are a cool concept, but shouldn't we be able to ride our own Pokémon instead of using a service?

Because creating several specific 3D overworld models for about 800 different creatures is time consuming and kind of impractical? Plus differences in size and anatomy would make one riding Pokemon extremely different from the other?

Anyway, do you think Sun and Moon will get harsh criticisms? I sure hope it isn't as bad as I'm making it right now, but the negatives and possibly controversal elements do need to be addressed.

No, I don't. It's (probably) not gonna be the best freakin' game ever, but I think Game Freak would have to try really hard to make a legitimately bad core series Pokemon game. Of course, people are still probably going to claim that this and that mechanic or x character "completely ruined the game" for them, but such is the hyperbolic nature of the internet and fandoms. =_=

 

[Proxima Centauri B]

I dont really think its going to suck. They chose to mix up the main formula which they've been using for 20 years. I really think these games are going to be cool and special. We're long overdue for them to mix up the formula.Even with the lack of gyms, which I think these Island Trials are taking the place of depending on what they are could be pretty fun,especially if you have to do different things for each. I guess we dont really know until we play the games but everything they have shown so far looks exciting and good.

 

[Sakuraa]

No.

Games will always get criticisms for whatever reason. Doesn't mean the game sucks.

 

[PurplePopplio]

The only problem that SM could have, is that they are implementing too many changes. After 20 years of basically the same and no change, Sun and Moon are finally introducing some changes, but could there be too many?

 

[Stratelier]

Who remembers Pokemon Colosseum and XD back in Gen 3? Those games didn't have Gyms either, and are probably better off for it.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

Who remembers Pokemon Colosseum and XD back in Gen 3? Those games didn't have Gyms either, and are probably better off for it.

Those are spin-off games so they don't count in terms of main series games.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Since when has the anime ever reflected the quality of the games? I love both the games and the anime, but they really aren't similar enough to each other. I still see people praise B/W and the fifth generation of games as a whole, but for the anime, BW was heavily criticized and disliked among the older fans. There are people who didn't care for the games and love the anime. I'm not denying that, but in terms of their general overall reception, they're practically night and day. Besides all that, it's kind of early to jump all over SM's case based on a trailer and poster. We don't even know how Ash and Pikachu end up going to Alola or why school is suddenly a thing for Ash. Granted, I think a lot of fans are panicking over the art style and setup out of fear more than anything else, but the point is that it's a bit premature to use the show as a way to complain about the games' quality when the show hasn't even aired a single episode yet.

As for the lack of Gyms, I don't think that's a huge negative in itself. I am kind of surprised that more people had problems with Gyms than I expected, but I don't think it's bad that they're trying something different. The Island Trials don't sound too drastically different from Gyms and the Captains are basically Gym Leaders anyway, so it just sounds like the Alola version of a Gym challenge. Plus, we also don't have all the information on what Island Trials are all about, so we can't really judge that aspect of the game yet.

While I was hoping to ride my own Mudsdale through the Alola region, I don't think that's enough to make me not like the Pokeride concept. It still sounds quite good if they take the place of HMs or at least make them more optional like what Soaring in OR/AS did with Flying.

We obviously can't judge the games before we actually play them, but I don't think that they'll be bad games. I'm sure that there will be problems with Sun/Moon, as nothing is perfect, and there will be fans who could be disappointed with them overall, but based on what we've seen, I don't think that the chances of that happening with a large amount of fans are that high. A lot of people, including myself, will still most likely praise the games for their graphics and be happy to see Game Freak taking more chances with their formula than usual. Shaking up the status quo a bit was one of the reasons why people really enjoyed the fifth generation games. They took some risks, did something different with the storyline and characters and that created some of the best games in the franchise, at least in my opinion. We just need to wait and see how the games turn out for ourselves.

 

[Tente]

Where's the Mega Evolution? Will the games still have Megas?

out of all things, you miss megas?

believe it is going to get more criticisms than Black and White, though I kind of liked Black and White.

I'm confused about the implication here because all of my friends generally agree Gen V is unmatched in terms of storyline and also had a well-developed region, leading to a solid generation overall?

removing stuff people like about Pokémon

brave statement

It's impossible to pass judgment on games that aren't even out yet. But I will say, that even if SM aren't good, I will like them so much more than XY. SM looks like they're actually taking a risk and trying to change things up to make the series fresh again. And XY was just more of the same, and it just felt stale to me. A Frankenstein's Monster of what worked in previous games cut up and shoved all into one set of games with out consideration as to why those features were good in the first place.

Well said; I felt this way too. There's something very stale and lifeless about X and Y.

- The quality of the Anime rarely ever reflects the quality of the games at all. I've heard many view Gen. II was the golden age of the Video games, yet it was the dark, really dark age of the Anime.

Really? I have a lot of fond childhood memories of the Johto series. The battles versus Whitney were a highlight, I thought. So was that all-grass-type tournament

Also, while I would call Gen II "golden" because of the feel of the color palette, and the fact they've aged well, I'd say Unova is this series's highlight

The anime is a separate entity from the games. Whatever direction they choose to go in with the anime should not be a factor in any critical review of SM, period. Anime-related issues are to be taken up with the anime producers.

As for the Gyms, I'll say again, it's about time they did something different. In two whole decades, Gyms only ever deviated from the standard formula about four times (Clair sending you on a post-battle fetch quest (which, come to think of it, is kind of like a Trial in reverse), Blue using no type specialty, Liza & Tate being a Double Battle, and the Striaton Brothers being determined by your Starter choice). That's a long time to go with minimal variance. Reworking it so that the checkpoints are grouped into sets of Trials and Totem Battles (which due to the Totem's aura boosting their stats and the S.O.S. partners giving them a numbers advantage already look to be more complex than Gym Battles, which you could generally blitz through as long as you had a type advantage), which are then capped by Kahuna battles, creates a refreshing change while still retaining the fundamental concepts.

Criticizing for not being able to ride "our" Pokémon specifically just feels like splitting hairs to me; it's the same end result whether they're rentals or not.

We probably won't see the regular forms of Pokémon with Alola Forms in these games specifically. But given that they appear to be limited to Gen I Pokémon, we've had a good twenty years to use those regular forms anyway.

Megas aren't the hot new thing on the block anymore. I'm sure they'll be in the games, or if not these ones, then the next ones, but they have bigger things to show off right now.

And yes, they day/night cycle is version-specific. That was demonstrated in the trailer.

I predict that SM will be quite highly acclaimed for finally doing something different with the franchise's stale old formulae. BW were praised for the same - having a more involved story and shedding some of the series's worn-out conventions. They appear to be doing the same here and in more drastic and dynamic ways than before; it's all innovative, and that's what a series as old as this one needs in order to keep going. Could it fail? Sure, there's a possibility of that, but I think we'll only find ourselves in that position if the changes lead to frustrating or unwieldy gameplay that isn't fun or engaging.

I mean, I like XY a lot more than probably quite a few people here, but even I feel the stagnation when playing them. But seeing what SM are bringing to the table, I can at least amend my description of XY as "stagnant" to "transitory." Something that was necessary, in part to introduce some of the new concepts and features, but also to tide us over while they paved the road for SM, which could truly capitalize on the 3DS's capabilities.

Honestly you probably wrote more than this thread even merited, and you did so really clearly and convincingly. I'm in awe, and agree with everything

The only problem that SM could have, is that they are implementing too many changes. After 20 years of basically the same and no change, Sun and Moon are finally introducing some changes, but could there be too many?

I'm enjoying this wild ride myself!

 

[SeanWheeler]

Of course the anime won't have an impact on the games. I was asking about Gen 7 in general and the games and anime are separate points about this generation sucking. I don't read the manga and I haven't heard much about the Sun and Moon TCG. But if I had any problems with those, I would rant about it here. Though any complaints about Sinnoh remakes wouldn't be allowed because they are not called Sun and Moon (and we don't even know if they will exist yet). But since anything about the Sun and Moon anime is put in the anime board, would a forum about Sun and Moon as a generation belong to the general discussion board and should we continue this thread discussing the Sun and Moon games themselves?