Will we ever see third version title releases again over paired versions?

[EmpoleonProd]

I hadn't realized it until recently, but the last time we got a standalone third version was Platinum in 2009... It's been a decade, ever since then, we've never had a third version, every release has been paired versions. Is Gamefreak trying a LITTLE too hard to money grab? When you talk to other Pokemon fans, a common consensus is that some of the best games are these third versions, commonly referred to as "director's cuts". Emerald in 2005 and Platinum in 2009 are still to this day widely considered some of the best Pokemon games ever, not just for being remasters of their preceding paired versions, and essentially combining them into one game, but also for introducing a ton of post-game content. I feel like USUM could've easily been one game, and a Z version to make Kalos feel more "complete" was a much needed addition in my opinion.

Gen VI should've gone for one more game, instead of a break year in 2015, they should've made a Z version, with the Megas and Primals from ORAS. Being that XY would be used as the base for the game, and everything new to ORAS can be added, they really only have to rewrite dialogue and make a few new cutscenes/exclusive areas, and add Complete Zygarde. Instead they rushed out some arguably incomplete Gen VII games (SM) but with a little bit of Z (Complete Zygarde and the Zygarde Cube), and then released them AGAIN as USUM. I personally give Gamefreak a pass on BW2 because, unlike USUM and all preceding third versions, BW2 were sequels to the paired versions which made the game experience a unique one, something similar had not been felt since the Johto games being sequels to the events of Kanto games. I feel like, if we had gotten the hypothetical Z Version, Gen VI would be remembered as being one of the best generations ever. Instead they went the money grab approach, rushed out two paired versions and then refined them a year later as separate paired versions. I think if they had released Z, and then released Stars as a third version to Sun and Moon, we would've had much higher quality games with more post-game content, more "completeness", the stuff third versions are known for. In my personal opinion, I think they messed up not making ORAS into a "Delta Emerald" instead. It would've been the first time we saw a remake of a third version (although HGSS were pretty true to Crystal, since Crystal changed VERY LITTLE over GS), instead of LGPE being the remake of a third version by remaking Yellow. We also would've gotten the most bad ass cutscene in Pokemon game history, (3D Rayquaza descending to stop Groudon and Kyogre), and possibly a Battle Frontier.

I just feel like Gamefreak is kicking themselves in the foot on the quality of the games, specifically the post-game. And I don't think the lack of third versions is the ONLY reason why the quality is dropping, by all means they could've put a Groudon/Kyogre battle in ORAS, a Frontier in ORAS, Complete Zygarde in XY as a patch, these features aren't exclusive to third versions, but I think the general consensus is that third versions give us a more complete gaming experience, and we haven't really had that since 2009, USUM can be considered a "dual third game" since that's really what it is, if you were to play SM, and then just play US or UM, it would feel like you played a third version vs. SM, but even so, the paired versions thing with a third version screams "money grab". I would hope Gamefreak rectifies these mistakes and makes a Platinum remake instead of Diamond and Pearl remakes, the community deserves a complete third version remake on the Switch, and Platinum had just about everything, like the Battle Frontier and the Distortion World, if Gamefreak REALLY wants to surprise us, they could add some weight to the ORAS "Battle Frontier Coming Soon!" ordeal, and instead of remaking the SinJoh Frontier, allow us to travel to the Hoenn Frontier. As far as Sinnoh Dex Pokemon not available in Platinum, (Murkrow line, Misdreavus line, Glameow line, Stunky line), they could make these exclusive to Pokemon GO and/or SwSh, assuming we would get this hypothetical Platinum remake in 2020, so you would still need another game to complete the Pokedex (the literal ENTIRE design concept behind making paired versions), but we get the best of all the Sinnoh games, because features in Platinum made that game a MUCH better experience than Diamond and Pearl, I personally will never play either Diamond or Pearl ever again simply because Platinum is better in every way, the Pokemon it lacks vs. Diamond and Pearl don't even excite me or strike me as "must-haves". I hope they ponder the idea of third version remakes starting with Platinum, Hoenn honestly deserved the Emerald remake many fans wanted.

 

[Bolt Strike]

No, they make more money from paired releases than they do single releases. Because then they can get some people to buy the same game twice.

Honestly, I don't think this is as big a deal as people are making it out to be and probably has little to do with why the games feel less complete. In general, programming in version exclusives probably isn't much more than changing a few Pokemon on a list, it's probably not taking anywhere near the bulk of their development time. The newer games feeling incomplete has more to do with 3D graphics taking longer to develop and them being obsessed with mobile than everything being paired versions. Keep in mind that HGSS and BW2 also tend to be high on most people's list, and those were paired versions. The difference between the likes of Emerald, Platinum, HGSS, and BW2 was that they probably spent a lot less time on the graphics and a lot more time on the content than they do now.

 

[Esserise]

I mean I was kinda hoping we wouldn't be seeing "director's cuts" of any sort any more.

But yeah, following on from what Bolt said, I'm pretty sure the paired versions don't even use a different code from each other, aside from the stuff like specific encounter rates. That's why you can look through the text files for one game and still see all of the version-exclusive dialogue from the other game. Why in the code of, say, Sun, every mention of Solgaleo is followed by the equivalent for Lunala. Doing paired versions for follow-ups is mostly just an aesthetic and marketing choice. And although I think the "director's cut" model is a nasty habit that needs kicked, I do prefer paired versions in the general sense, because it's a little more fun for my partner and I to get opposite versions than for us to get two of the same.

Though as far as features like the Battle Frontier go, maybe time is a factor but I think it's mostly just GF not putting much value on those kinds of features anymore. What did they replace the Frontier with in ORAS? A one-stop shop for all your breeding needs so that you can start engaging in competitive play with real flesh-and-blood sacks rather than the number generator.

I personally give Gamefreak a pass on BW2 because, unlike USUM and all preceding third versions, BW2 were sequels to the paired versions which made the game experience a unique one, something similar had not been felt since the Johto games being sequels to the events of Kanto games. I feel like, if we had gotten the hypothetical Z Version, Gen VI would be remembered as being one of the best generations ever.

Now see, I understand people giving a pass to B2W2 because they actually did something new and more worthwhile. But I would hope that if they'd followed that up in Gen 6 with another more Platinum-ish sort of game, that it would have been appropriately torched as the backward step it would have been, just like USUM were, regardless of the nice things about it. Like, sure, I enjoyed USUM well enough on a ground level, but I still really wish they had done something more original. I'd feel the same if they'd done that in Gen 6.

It would've been the first time we saw a remake of a third version, instead of LGPE being the remake of a third version by remaking Yellow.

So? Record holding is literally a trivial issue.

We also would've gotten the most bad ass cutscene in Pokemon game history, (3D Rayquaza descending to stop Groudon and Kyogre)

I would maintain that the Rayquaza ex machina scene in Emerald was a pathetic anticlimax that took the player entirely out of the situation and contributed nothing interesting to the game. ORAS were right to just have Rayquaza do something else entirely, giving focal space to both it and the land/sea titan of the game, and creating a new storyline rather than just throwing an existing one into a blender with its superficial twin.

 

[EmpoleonProd]

I mean I was kinda hoping we wouldn't be seeing "director's cuts" of any sort any more.

But yeah, following on from what Bolt said, I'm pretty sure the paired versions don't even use a different code from each other, aside from the stuff like specific encounter rates. That's why you can look through the text files for one game and still see all of the version-exclusive dialogue from the other game. Why in the code of, say, Sun, every mention of Solgaleo is followed by the equivalent for Lunala. Doing paired versions for follow-ups is mostly just an aesthetic and marketing choice. And although I think the "director's cut" model is a nasty habit that needs kicked, I do prefer paired versions in the general sense, because it's a little more fun for my partner and I to get opposite versions than for us to get two of the same.

Though as far as features like the Battle Frontier go, maybe time is a factor but I think it's mostly just GF not putting much value on those kinds of features anymore. What did they replace the Frontier with in ORAS? A one-stop shop for all your breeding needs so that you can start engaging in competitive play with real flesh-and-blood sacks rather than the number generator.



Now see, I understand people giving a pass to B2W2 because they actually did something new and more worthwhile. But I would hope that if they'd followed that up in Gen 6 with another more Platinum-ish sort of game, that it would have been appropriately torched as the backward step it would have been, just like USUM were, regardless of the nice things about it. Like, sure, I enjoyed USUM well enough on a ground level, but I still really wish they had done something more original. I'd feel the same if they'd done that in Gen 6.



So? Record holding is literally a trivial issue.



I would maintain that the Rayquaza ex machina scene in Emerald was a pathetic anticlimax that took the player entirely out of the situation and contributed nothing interesting to the game. ORAS were right to just have Rayquaza do something else entirely, giving focal space to both it and the land/sea titan of the game, and creating a new storyline rather than just throwing an existing one into a blender with its superficial twin.

If you're right about all the code being present for both games in each game... Why not just allow the player to choose which way they play it? Allow the player, at some point, to choose whether Cosmog evolved into Lunala or Solgaleo, why even make two games ever if the code for both is present in each game? Unless... it's just a money grab. That's all paired versions are in my opinion, games like Emerald and Platinum are perfect because you get the most complete gaming experience of any Pokemon game ever, and now with Pokemon GO connectivity, you could buy just one game and use a free application to fill out the exclusives of that region. That's why my idea of a Platinum remake works so well, the few Pokemon not present in Platinum will be obtainable for free from Pokemon GO, making this hypothetical game, "the perfect Pokemon game".

Also, Emerald's cutscene was far from "pathetic". It's pathetic now by 2019 standards but by 2005 standards that was freaking awesome. If that had been re-done in ORAS, it'd be on par with how people remember the climax of the Delta Episode, for sure. With the power of the 3DS they could've definitely animated an actual battle scene between Groudon and Kyogre, before showing Rayquaza swoop in to stop both of them. I think you're rating the scene by 2019 standards out of a 2005 game, rather than 2019 standards out of what the 3DS could've been capable of. I just think it's incredible that fans such as yourself literally are saying "nah, we don't need amazing games like all the third versions have been"...

 

[Esserise]

If you're right about all the code being present for both games in each game... Why not just allow the player to choose which way they play it? Allow the player, at some point, to choose whether Cosmog evolved into Lunala or Solgaleo, why even make two games ever if the code for both is present in each game? Unless... it's just a money grab.

I don't think it's that much more of a money grab than releasing one game would be, and certainly not more of one than third versions have always been. It's not as if having paired versions somehow doubles the sales, or anything drastic like that. Obviously they would get a little more from collectors and double-dippers, but the average person is going to find having one copy to be perfectly sufficient as long as they can trade with other people who have the opposite game.

Also, Emerald's cutscene was far from "pathetic". It's pathetic now by 2019 standards but by 2005 standards that was freaking awesome. If that had been re-done in ORAS, it'd be on par with how people remember the climax of the Delta Episode, for sure. With the power of the 3DS they could've definitely animated an actual battle scene between Groudon and Kyogre, before showing Rayquaza swoop in to stop both of them. I think you're rating the scene by 2019 standards out of a 2005 game, rather than 2019 standards out of what the 3DS could've been capable of.

Has nothing to do with the cutscene being old; I don't care about that. I care that it's a complete anticlimax. All that build-up and apocalyptic dread just so that Rayquaza can swoop in for a hot second and make everything perfect and peachy again, while you, the player, have become little more than a glorified alarm clock for totally arbitrary reasons. Pokémon doesn't have fantastic writing to begin with, but the Emerald climax was really sloppy.

I just think it's incredible that fans such as yourself literally are saying "nah, we don't need amazing games like all the third versions have been"...

I just don't think the third versions have really been all that "amazing." They're okay for what they are, but there are better ways to go about enhancing a region now, and even in the context of their time I think they're kind of overrated.

 

[Poke Dragon]

Third versions were technically never needed in the first place, the problem I have with them is really the fact that they're just better versions of the first two games in a generation. Not to mention, third versions actually never sold as well as the beginning games, despite being better versions of them. I hate the "Director's cut" idea of a game on the same system, which is why I'm 100% against the idea of SWSH getting a third version.

 

[Bolt Strike]

I mean I was kinda hoping we wouldn't be seeing "director's cuts" of any sort any more.

Same. Third versions are in the same boat as far as being cash grabs. You're basically taking the same game, adding a few new features, and then charging people full price to go through the same game all over again just to experience those extras. Back in the day, something like Emerald or Platinum would've been fine because there was no other way to provide that sort of extra content, but now that DLC is a thing, director's cuts are an archaic concept that charges the player for more money than they're worth.

Now see, I understand people giving a pass to B2W2 because they actually did something new and more worthwhile. But I would hope that if they'd followed that up in Gen 6 with another more Platinum-ish sort of game, that it would have been appropriately torched as the backward step it would have been, just like USUM were, regardless of the nice things about it. Like, sure, I enjoyed USUM well enough on a ground level, but I still really wish they had done something more original. I'd feel the same if they'd done that in Gen 6.

IDK, USUM had more going on than just being another third version, a lot of its updates were seen as underwhelming and arguably changed even less than the likes of Emerald and Platinum. It had very little in the way of new areas and gameplay mechanics/features, it mainly just had a different ending to the story and some new Pokemon, whereas Emerald and Platinum had a little bit of everything. If a hypothetical Z or whatever they would've gone with would've felt equally samey it probably would've been torched, but if it was a significant step up from XY, I think people would've been more okay with it.

If you're right about all the code being present for both games in each game... Why not just allow the player to choose which way they play it? Allow the player, at some point, to choose whether Cosmog evolved into Lunala or Solgaleo, why even make two games ever if the code for both is present in each game? Unless... it's just a money grab. That's all paired versions are in my opinion, games like Emerald and Platinum are perfect because you get the most complete gaming experience of any Pokemon game ever, and now with Pokemon GO connectivity, you could buy just one game and use a free application to fill out the exclusives of that region. That's why my idea of a Platinum remake works so well, the few Pokemon not present in Platinum will be obtainable for free from Pokemon GO, making this hypothetical game, "the perfect Pokemon game".

The problem with Emerald and Platinum is that you probably already played through the bulk of the content before. So it's mainly just a retread with a few extras. If they're such great games, why not just make RS or DP that complete to begin with instead of bothering with the updates? Otherwise you're still buying multiple versions just to have everything. If they want to include new content that they work on post-release, it'd be better to have DLC. Then players who already bought the original could just buy the new content at a cheaper price and without having to go through the game all over again.