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World Championships in the anime

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Either or. I could see him reaching Master Class or getting knocked off in either Super or Hyper Rank
... How? He would have to be crazy powerful to reach those, and that would require a drive to battle and improve he hasn’t shown any signs of.

He only wants to catch pokemon, and even their natural strength won’t get him too far if he can’t use it well.
 
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Either or. I could see him reaching Master Class or getting knocked off in either Super or Hyper Rank
So, out of over 10,000 theoretically experienced trainers with well-trained Pokémon, a rookie who's inexperienced when it comes to Pokémon battles, who doesn't train his Pokémon (and turns his back on them when they do want to train/treats them like dirt for trying to train), whose goal doesn't revolve around, nor involve Pokémon battles (even though it should), who doesn't even give a damn about battles to begin with, should be among the Top 8 most powerful, most hardworking, most experienced trainers in the entire world?! Do you... do you really not see anything wrong with this entire premise, like, at all?
 
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So, out of over 10,000 theoretically experienced trainers with well-trained Pokémon, a rookie who's inexperienced when it comes to Pokémon battles, who doesn't train his Pokémon (and turns his back on them when they do want to train/treats them like dirt for trying to train), whose goal doesn't revolve around, nor involve Pokémon battles (even though it should), who doesn't even give a damn about battles to begin with, should be among the Top 8 most powerful, most hardworking, most experienced trainers in the entire world?! Do you... do you really not see anything wrong with this entire premise, like, at all?
No?

Why are you guys acting like he can't improve in all of those areas you listed? Do you really think he won't grow as a character and trainer for the rest of PM2019's run? Just because he is inexperienced as battles now doesn't mean he will stay that way
 
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No?

Why are you guys acting like he can't improve in all of those areas you listed? Do you really think he won't grow as a character and trainer for the rest of PM2019's run? Just because he is inexperienced as battles now doesn't mean he will stay that way
It's all about timing. We watched Ash go through over twenty years to get to this point--it would be incredibly jarring if Gou gets that good in only three, especially when battling isn't even his primary goal.

There's also the narrative reasons I mentioned in my previous post--why create two characters with separate goals then have one of them move in on the other's arc goal?
 
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Well, Pokémon Coordinators do have a lot more in common with Pokémon Trainers than doctors do. They both train their Pokémon to become stronger battlers and learn better moves (with one of the rounds in contests being all about Pokémon battles, with the only difference being that instead of trying to KO the opponent, you're trying to outshine them), while Pokémon Doctors study how to treat Pokémon in need of medical assistance. So Dawn entering the PWT (or a knock-off, in this case) does make sense, as participating in battles is a good way to help your Pokémon train and improve themselves. On the other hand, having a Pokémon Doctor, whose job has nothing to do with battle, enter a tournament to determine the strongest battler in the world... yeah, that... wouldn't make much sense.
Coordinators are Trainers, as are the vast majority of people who care for and raise Pokemon. That aside, in the Pokemon franchise, we've had many examples of Trainers with careers outside of Pokemon battling. Look at the cast of Black & White for example; nearly every single Gym Leader has a "real" career in a sense that in our society would be difficult to balance the many duties and expectations of being a Gym Leader with. Yet, they still do it. Elesa's a model, Clay runs a multi-million dollar enterprise, Skyla's an active pilot, etc. And in that vein, a Gym Leader's goal as a Trainer's obstacle in their pursuit of becoming a Champion is identical to the participants of the PWT who vie for being a World Champion. There wasn't any issue with them balancing their careers and participation as Gym Leaders. Another great example is Professor Kukui, a regional professor; yet, he spends a good chunk of time (both in-game and in the anime) following the pursuits of children across the islands, rather than doing the traditional duties of the regional professors that we've seen in the past. Yet, he is no less judged for it. Careers in the Pokemon franchise aren't black and white that one has to stick to their career without any outside indulgences to any degree.

As for him enjoying battles, I'm not denying it, nor is that the issue here. The issue is that he's supposed to not have much time on his hands, since he's too busy studying (which is the whole reason why he gave up journeying with Ash). Him taking a small break once in a while to help his friends and spend time with them (like he did during the whole Kanto-Alola two-parters) is more realistic than him dropping his dream so he could participate in a tournament where, supposedly, you have to constantly be active and battle other trainers so as to get to the top. I guess they could still have him battle Ash for some other reason if they really wanted to, though I can't think of that many good scenarios in which that would happen (the only one I could think of would be him helping Ash train for his battle/rematch (depending on how the match turns out) with Forrest, but there are probably others than just don't come to mind). But if they do put him in the PWC, just for the sake of having him battle Ash again, then that would seriously diminish his departure.
And who is to say he doesn't have much time on his hands? Where was it stated exactly how much time Brock has to allocate in the first place? Maybe Brock's taking time off from his studies; maybe he's taking flexible online classes to give himself more time; maybe he's on a type of break from learning-the possibilities are endless and are as ambiguous as your claim to him being extremely busy. Sure, he may not wish to travel regions with Ash anymore because of his goal, but accepting battles from the occasional Trainer isn't going to put his Pokemon Doctor dreams on hold. The original point of our discussion was for the writers to use the PWT as a vehicle to allow for Ash and Brock to have a complete, official battle (unlike before), not to see Brock try to reach the top to become World Champion. I'm positive that not everyone that enters will have the discipline and dedication to get as far as Leon and Lance have, or where Ash wants to be; some are along just for the ride and experience or whatever their personal reason is for entering (for example, Lillie, Mallow, and Sophocles entering the Alola League...despite being them). And that's where I envision Brock (hence my earlier comment about him still enjoying battling). Furthermore, the recent episode showed us that you don't even have to accept a challenge should you get one, meaning, in some regard, the nature of this tournament isn't as obligatory as you seem to claim (unlike being a Gym Leader with another full-time job). Overall, I understand what you're saying, but I do think that Brock, and other characters in the show, can be flexible in their participation with this seemingly annual tournament without diminishing their ultimate goals in life.
 
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Holy hell, I don't if you're really naive or plainly trolling now. Not seeing something wrong with a novice trainer supposedly making it to the World's Top 8 trainers with relative ease (according to you) is blatantly hilarious and outrageous.

No one here said he can't improve in battles or the areas listed, it's just not a natural part of his character and if he does need to improve then it needs to be done step by step. If he's going to be a "protagonist", he needs to develop like one in a slow progression. There's also the fact that he himself is not displaying much if any interest in doing so.
No I'm quite serious. And I never said it would be easy. He would struggle just as much as Ash would in order to reach the top 8. And what other trainers do you think would make the top 8?
 
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No I'm quite serious. And I never said it would be easy. He would struggle just as much as Ash would in order to reach the top 8. And what other trainers do you think would make the top 8?
Honestly, I don't think Gou has the drive to get there nor will develop it in the future. He might be growing as a character, but I don't see him become driven enough to pursue such a high-stakes tournament. The ranking system would require him to battle constantly against very high-level trainers to increase/maintain his rank. That kind of commitment would easily bite into his already given goal of wanting to catch Pokemon and hunting down Mew.

The fact that the finalists of the previous PWC were Leon and Lance, champions of their respective regions, speaks volumes of the kind of trainers one would expect to find at the Master Ball level. A trainer who just started out, regardless of the Pokemon they might possess, would have a nearly impossible time fighting against hose kinds of opponents.

I'm actually curious on how far we'll see Ash go considering the level of competition he's up against compared to what he'd find at Regional Tournaments.
 
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If he has to make it into Top 8, there needs to be a realistic reason for him to suddenly have a long term battling oriented goal. Which he obviously hasn't and any realizations about him suddenly loving battling were dropped in the subsequent episodes. Then he needs to have a long path ahead of him, ideally 20 years+. Not that it'll ever happen since @Daren worded out the commercial reasons perfectly.
His Raboot gaining an interest in battling could be the start of him wanting to battle more and enter the WC
 
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Why are you guys acting like he can't improve in all of those areas you listed? Do you really think he won't grow as a character and trainer for the rest of PM2019's run? Just because he is inexperienced as battles now doesn't mean he will stay that way
There's a difference between him improving himself and him jumping from 1 to 1000 with no bridge in-between. This isn't about him not being allowed to grow as a character, but there's no way to realistically make him go from mediocre at best/downright awful at worst to Ash-levels of incredibleness that he not only defeats a bunch of trainers who are far, far more experienced than him, but defeats enough of them to become one of the 8 most powerful trainers in the entire world. Ash has spent years traveling 8 different regions, constantly fighting Gym Leaders and Frontier Brains and even Pokémon deities (not to mention countless other trainers who were stronger than him or, at the very least, as strong as him). He's had years' worth of development and more than enough time to grow as a trainer and a character, to the point of becoming strong enough and experienced enough to feasibly take on what the world throws at him. Go, on the other hand, has just started out. Not just that, but he's usually quite apathetic towards battles, in general. It would an entire story arc to make Go interested in them (to the point if participating in a worldwide tournament) in a realistic manner, multiple episodes for him to learn the ropes and develop his own battling style, multiple roadblock that he would have to face in order to grow, give him multiple struggles so as to keep it realistic and make the audience invested in his arc and make them sympathize with him, multiple arcs where he bonds with his team and learns their strengths and weaknesses... basically have him go though stuff that took Ash multiple generations to achieve. There's no way to have a story that would take multiple years to tell compacted and forced it in a 3-year series that's supposed to focus on a number of characters other than Go and have it be well-paced, make sense and happen in an organic way, without taking time away from all the other characters' plots.
 
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I'm actually curious on how far we'll see Ash go considering the level of competition he's up against compared to what he'd find at Regional Tournaments.
I think it's safe to say he'll get his rematch with Leon, or it would render making that Ash's main goal pointless.
That means he gets to the Masters rank.

Will he beat Leon, though? That's harder to say but I'm leaning towards yes.
Leon isn't the same as the previous league roadblocks. He's a game character (unlike every league roadblock), he's been introduced early (unlike everyone except Alain), and losing to Ash would match Leon's role in the games. Ash is also interested in him in particular--not just entering the league and winning it.

It's possible Ash will lose to someone else after defeating Leon, but as I said earlier I think it would feel cheap.
Furthermore, the Alola win got a big positive reception on social media and even hit places like Forbes--the people who make the big decisions would surely take note. I think letting Ash win the world championship would fit Sword/Shield's themes well, too.

Yes, there's the question of what to do with him after, but that became an issue one way or another as soon as they introduced him entering a World Championship. We've made jokes about pulling a Dragon Ball Z, but I think they could get a lot of interesting writing out of having Ash mentor a new character. I wrote about this before--have him put some focus on parts of becoming a Master other than battling.
 
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He can learn the basics of battling with Raboot before he faces his first PWC opponent. By then he could be good enough to win
I don't see why he has to learn the basics of battling in the World Championship when there are other ways he could do it. As much as I'd prefer for Ash to battle the Galar Gym leaders instead, I'd be okay with Gou taking on the Galar Gym Challenge instead if it meant that we got to see more of Galar and its Gym Leaders. Even having Gou challenge the Kanto Gyms would make more sense, even though I'd be annoyed at the Kanto favoritism. The idea of Gou working more with Raboot to be a better battler is certainly not a bad idea. I just don't understand why they'd need to include him in the World Championships in order to do so. Not only would it prevent Gou from having a separate goal from Ash, but it would also be unbelievable for a rookie trainer like Gou to get that far in such a huge competition.

Don't see the problem. Remember back in Alola when all of the classmates participated in the League?
Yes, but people complained about that too. A good chuck of people, myself included, thought that most of Ash's classmates didn't deserve to be in the Alola League. Making it open for everyone with no requirement also contributed to making Ash's Alola League victory feel less impressive than it could have been otherwise. I also wouldn't say that they were involved with Ash's goal exactly. Most of them entered the Alola League just for the fun of it. Aside from Kiawe and maybe Lana, none of Ash's classmates were battle active. Snowy's strongest move was still Powered Snow for some reason. In retrospect, I can see why they'd want to include the whole cast in the Alola League. It does fit with the whole togetherness theme of the region and it was quite possibly the only chance they had to include everyone in the League due to not having any requirements. I just think it should have felt like a natural progression for the main cast instead of just throwing them into it. I'm sure that the artists not needing to design more one-shot characters was also a pretty nice bonus.

Gou going from not being into battling to suddenly doing well in the World Championship would feel pretty jarring and forced. Having Gou become more interested in battle so he can reconnect with Raboot and battle more with his captures would be fine. He doesn't need to be in the World Championship in order to improve his battling skills.
 
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Honestly, when Leon won the PWC in Episode 12, I was surprised at how minimal and calm it was treated by him and the announcers in the episode compare that to other Anime Leagues (which obviously is much lower than this).
 
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Honestly, when Leon won the PWC in Episode 12, I was surprised at how minimal and calm it was treated by him and the announcers in the episode compare that to other Anime Leagues (which obviously is much lower than this).
The PWC finals did happen in Galar and Leon is known to be undefeated there (given all that hype talk he got when he appeared). Maybe there wasn't as much fanfare because the (home) crowd already expected him to win? I would imagine there would've been a greater upset if he lost.

Also, does anyone know how long the PWC has been running for?
 
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I wonder what the change in the anime's direction was caused by--a higher up retiring or moving somewhere else seems plausible.
I think it was a combination of a Pokemon GO and movies 20-22 being pretty successful. Pokemon GO is a big money maker for the company and movies 20-22 showed that nostalgia sells.
 
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Don't see the problem. Remember back in Alola when all of the classmates participated in the League?
I disagree that it was an easy league win but that's besides the point. The fact that the companions entered the league showed that they had no issues with them being involved in Ash's goal. If it happened once it can happen again with Go
The classmates participated in the league at the last moment, and it didn’t require any previous accomplishments. They did next to nothing to prepare for it and the entire affair was resolved in a few months.

However, unlike the league, PWT is a contant thing, and would need Go to work for the entire duration of the series. The classmates were not battling the entire time and did not have leagues as their consistent goals.

And it would just be redundant with Ash participating in it. There’s a reason no companions ever did the gym challenge along with Ash.
 
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@Alola Okay, after reading your post, I'm starting get the impression that we're arguing against different points (since I don't bring up, nor care about the effects of our real-life careers in Pokémon or how they are seen by the Pokémon world), so let's start from the very beginning. In the last episode of Diamond & Pearl, Brock says, verbatim: "The thing is... after watching you and Dawn going for your dreams, I decided I need to go for a dream of my own. That's why I'm planning to use all of my experience to become a Pokémon Doctor.[...] But to become a doctor, I'll have to study hard, which means I won't have time to continue on our journey." That, coupled with that series' second special (where we see him being busy studying to "enter a school to become a Pokémon Doctor", as the subs say), shows us that he no longer has enough free time on his hands to do as he pleases whenever he wants. Now, let's shift to this series' latest episode. In it, we find out that, in order to advance in the PWC (a competition whose whole point is to find the strongest trainer in the entire world), the participants have to and should constantly battle other entrants in order to raise their ranks and keep it as high as possible. After a battle against a higher-ranking trainer, Ash jumps from the 10000th rank to the 3,763rd. Meaning that the previous number 3,763, as well as those bellow them but above Visquez's current rank had their rank drop by one to make way for Ash. So, if you don't battle often in the PWC, you risk falling behind and failing to reach a higher class.

So, taking these two things into account, it wouldn't make much sense for Brock to participate in a worldwide championship when he's working hard to excel in a profession that doesn't involve battles. That's the crux of the problem. It's not the same as him coming back for a field trip/vacation during Sun & Moon. It's realistic that he would take a break once in a while, either for a few hours to take care of his siblings or for a short few days to visit a long-time friend whom he hasn't seen in a long time and help them. But him participating in the World Championships would raise a whole lot of questions whose answers wouldn't make sense within the series. Why is he participating in a year-long battle-oriented competition if he's more interested in becoming a doctor? Is he doing it so to become the strongest trainer? Wouldn't make sense, since he's given up on being the best battler. Is he doing it so just he could battle Ash? It can't be that, since he's doesn't even know he's participating in it. Is he doing it just for fun? Well, considering how this is supposed to be a highly competitive tournament, it would end up being to taxing for him, since he also has to study and to take care of his brothers and sisters, not leaving much room for him to juggle all that with battling tens of thousands of other trainers who would come to challenge him (which is why he didn't resume being the Pewter City Gym Leader when he came back and why he left Forrest to take his place). Not to mention, why do something, if you don't really care about it and won't do it seriously? Does he actually have enough free time for him to tackle the PWC? Well, that would diminish his departure, since the whole reason he stopped travelling with Ash was because he wouldn't have enough time to study. A lot of questions raised and no answers that don't break something previously established. As for why other Gym Leaders have more spare time to pursue other careers... well, we don't know how much spare time they have or how hard it is to balance their occupations, since the writers never establish it (plus, as seen in the recent episode, Gym Leaders have substitutes who can take their places if they're to busy with other matters and can even temporarily close their gym (as we saw with Fantina)). But, in Brock's case, it's explicitly stated that he doesn't have enough time anymore, as he's busy studying. And, unlike Gym Leaders, he can't have someone else take his place in this tournament when he's too busy.
 
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@Alola Okay, after reading your post, I'm starting get the impression that we're arguing against different points (since I don't bring up, nor care about the effects of our real-life careers in Pokémon or how they are seen by the Pokémon world), so let's start from the very beginning. In the last episode of Diamond & Pearl, Brock says, verbatim: "The thing is... after watching you and Dawn going for your dreams, I decided I need to go for a dream of my own. That's why I'm planning to use all of my experience to become a Pokémon Doctor.[...] But to become a doctor, I'll have to study hard, which means I won't have time to continue on our journey." That, coupled with that series' second special (where we see him being busy studying to "enter a school to become a Pokémon Doctor", as the subs say), shows us that he no longer has enough free time on his hands to do as he pleases whenever he wants.
No, you didn't mention real-life careers. However, your argument is that Brock's eventual career and path thereto, of which there is a real-life counterpart, would leave him too busy to participate in the PWT (please, correct me if I'm wrong). That's why I listed examples of Trainers who have both a career and are Gym Leaders (who also have challenges annually, perhaps even moreso), because they're very similar in dynamic and show that it isn't nonsensical for someone with a non-Pokemon battling career to participate in an annual Pokemon battling event, like you're claiming.

That's the crux of the problem. It's not the same as him coming back for a field trip/vacation during Sun & Moon. It's realistic that he would take a break once in a while, either for a few hours to take care of his siblings or for a short few days to visit a long-time friend whom he hasn't seen in a long time and help them. But him participating in the World Championships would raise a whole lot of questions whose answers wouldn't make sense within the series.
This is Pokemon-realism has never been its strongest point, with 10-year-old children free to roam countries and such. I doubt the first thing a viewer will express upon seeing Brock back for an episode or two, for a battle no less, is "Wow, this undermines his departure and makes zero sense."

Why is he participating in a year-long battle-oriented competition if he's more interested in becoming a doctor?
Because he can, like anyone else. Freedom of choice.

Is he doing it so to become the strongest trainer? Wouldn't make sense, since he's given up on being the best battler.
No, most likely not. IIRC, he's never mentioned wanting to become the best battler either.

Is he doing it so just he could battle Ash? It can't be that, since he's doesn't even know he's participating in it.
Well, that wouldn't be the sole reason but perhaps it could be a reason, depending on how the writers go about it; or a possibility that exists since both boys are participating in the event. And I'm sure one can look up Trainers and their rank via Rotomphones; I'd imagine that's how he'd find out about Ash.

Is he doing it just for fun? Well, considering how this is supposed to be a highly competitive tournament, it would end up being to taxing for him, since he also has to study and to take care of his brothers and sisters, not leaving much room for him to juggle all that with battling tens of thousands of other trainers who would come to challenge him (which is why he didn't resume being the Pewter City Gym Leader when he came back and why he left Forrest to take his place).
This is all purely hypothetical, especially as he's already attended medical school and it's ambiguous to how his personal life currently is. I also highly doubt he'd get that many challengers, yikes.

Not to mention, why do something, if you don't really care about it and won't do it seriously?
Lol, well why would Ash, his friends, and Team Rocket, do almost half of the material they do each saga?


I don't know. I feel that you're fixating too strictly on inferences you're making regarding Brock's supposed time. At this point though, it looks like we'll have to agree to disagree. However, I think we'll have to see how the PWT unfolds and the direction the writers take it; what exactly are the nuances and elements to this tournament. Who can you challenge and who can you not? While you've gone into detail about rankings and the efforts to keep it, don't forget, again, you're also able to decline challenges too-this weighs heavily regarding one's involvement. Exactly, how will that factor in the grand scheme of things? Will the PWT be something so involved that only battle-oriented individuals can participate in? Or will it be an event to take all kinds of Trainers, with only the most driven naturally getting to the top?
 
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However, your argument is that Brock's eventual career and path thereto, of which there is a real-life counterpart, would leave him too busy to participate in the PWT (please, correct me if I'm wrong).
Well, since you asked, allow me to correct you. My argument isn't that Brock eventually becoming a doctor will stop him from doing what he wants (if anything, that would actually free up his time). My argument is that, currently, he is studying to become a doctor, which requires him to allocate a good amount of time into his studies towards that. Enough time that he's no longer able to do the things that would be time consuming, things that he happily used to do (such as traveling around the world and participating in competitions with his friends). Him taking part in this championship implies that he actually has enough free time to participate in events that require him to put a lot of effort into. Therefore, we seem to be having a contradiction: he can't have so little spare time that he can't travel anymore, yet enough free time to participate in a worldwide tournament where trainers have to constantly defend their ranks (either by battling challengers so as to make sure that they keep the rank they had or by challenging other trainers so as to not get demoted due to someone else advancing).
 
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I don't think that they would give two members of the main cast the exact same goal at the same time.
 
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