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Worst Series for Team Rocket?

What series has the TRio at their worst?

  • Original series

    Votes: 3 5.0%
  • Ruby & Sapphire

    Votes: 2 3.3%
  • Diamond and Pearl

    Votes: 3 5.0%
  • Black & White

    Votes: 22 36.7%
  • XY

    Votes: 1 1.7%
  • Sun & Moon

    Votes: 3 5.0%
  • Journeys

    Votes: 26 43.3%

  • Total voters
    60
Easily their BW selves with their stupid serious personalities. At least SM and Journeys has been improving on them. The addition of the Rocket slot machine is a big plus

You can't be serious...

James has not a freaking Pokémon on hand.

A big plus? From what? From Mimikyu and Marearnie? I would prefer them to use mechas than random Pokémon. I would ratter prefer that they catch another Koffing and Ekans than have the gatcha.

It's a joke. A big fat unfuny joke so they do not have that much focus.

Team Rocket are something more than the villains who wants to catch Pikachu. Pokemon Journeys reduced them to that.
 
I think Best Wishes was definitely the worst for them because of its lasting impact on their characters. Like ii kanji said it was well into XY before they really felt like they were their old selves, and it wasn't until Sun&Moon that they truly felt like they returned to form. Plus I never liked how blocky and stiff their BW-XY designs were. However their appearances in PM2019 are extra disappointing compared to how well-done they were in SM. It really felt like each of their SM appearances were carefully thought-out and they never felt thrown into an episode out of obligation (hi, Satoshi!). Their rate of appearance was disappointing to be sure, but at least we could always say "well at least when they do appear it's very well-done". But now they appear even less and their appearances are watered down. It's no Best Wishes but it really feels like they aren't being given the same amount of care they used to be given. If there is one thing I like about their PM2019 selves is they retain the bounciness from their SM designs but seem to be more consistently well-drawn.

I also think this is the first series since BW forced them into stock animation motto hell that they haven't had a single visual variation? XY and SM both had a handful by the end of the first year but I don't think there's been a single one this series? And I still think it is an absolute huge missed opportunity that they don't do each of their old mottos when they visit those regions. Plus their new main theme is by far the worst Rocket-related music piece in the anime, don't @ me at least their BW motto music kind of slapped
 
You can't be serious...

James has not a freaking Pokémon on hand.

A big plus? From what? From Mimikyu and Marearnie? I would prefer them to use mechas than random Pokémon. I would ratter prefer that they catch another Koffing and Ekans than have the gatcha.

It's a joke. A big fat unfuny joke so they do not have that much focus.

Team Rocket are something more than the villains who wants to catch Pikachu. Pokemon Journeys reduced them to that.
The Rocket machine actually adds some variety with their battles against Ash by giving them different Pokemon to use. I'm never all that attached to the Pokemon they catch so I'm not too upset about them not catching their own
 
The Rocket machine actually adds some variety with their battles against Ash by giving them different Pokemon to use.

Team Rocket has never been build up towards battles. With that I mean that they have no nescesity to have strong Pokémon when they have a plan. That is why they resort to the mechas and the traps. Team Rocket trying to beat Ash in a fair battle is stupid. Plain and simple

About the different Pokémon they use. In the end they end up jobbing to Pikachu hard so I don't care. At least Marearnie and Mimmikyu put some fight. Oh by the way 90% of the time is just Pikachu who beats them. That shows you how well this series handles development.

And another thing. The only ones who put a fight where Tyranytar and Gyarados (Against Pikachu alone) , the Dusclops twins and Buneary and Cincino. The others did nothin. What about that Drapion and Scolipede? They did nothing. Jessie and Meowth had to fight. And to be fair I would like better if Jessie, James and Meowth fight with his owns hands than using the gatcha.

I'm never all that attached to the Pokemon they catch so I'm not too upset about them not catching their own

Then you should watch the Cacnea farewell episode or the Dustox one. You may see how a real Pokémon trainer has to behave. Not unlike others.

I think Best Wishes was definitely the worst for them because of its lasting impact on their characters. Like ii kanji said it was well into XY before they really felt like they were their old selves, and it wasn't until Sun&Moon that they truly felt like they returned to form. Plus I never liked how blocky and stiff their BW-XY designs were. However their appearances in PM2019 are extra disappointing compared to how well-done they were in SM. It really felt like each of their SM appearances were carefully thought-out and they never felt thrown into an episode out of obligation (hi, Satoshi!). Their rate of appearance was disappointing to be sure, but at least we could always say "well at least when they do appear it's very well-done". But now they appear even less and their appearances are watered down. It's no Best Wishes but it really feels like they aren't being given the same amount of care they used to be given. If there is one thing I like about their PM2019 selves is they retain the bounciness from their SM designs but seem to be more consistently well-drawn.

I also think this is the first series since BW forced them into stock animation motto hell that they haven't had a single visual variation? XY and SM both had a handful by the end of the first year but I don't think there's been a single one this series? And I still think it is an absolute huge missed opportunity that they don't do each of their old mottos when they visit those regions. Plus their new main theme is by far the worst Rocket-related music piece in the anime, don't @ me at least their BW motto music kind of slapped

One of the things I hate more. STOCK MOTTO ANIMATION. Do you remember how glorious where the mottos in Sinnoh? Come on, less than 50% of the episodes and you have to use the same motto animation again again and again?

By the way the motto theme sucks, but the battle theme is amazing. Shame it is for glorified rental Pokémon.
 
I voted for Journeys/PM 2019 mostly for what people are saying and based on the little I've watched so far.

Of course BW follows, but from after the cancelled Meteonite arc until Decolora islands. Even though they were already OOC by the start of BW I always thought it made somewhat a of a sense since it seemed to be leading to something big down the road (the skipped Plasma-dan showdown). I can't say if that's right or not as the two-parter never aired, however I considered it to be the reason for their sudden change.
After that I agree with everyone else here... No reason for Trio to remain serious, at all. Especially that OOC-ness was leading nowhere.

Maybe I should have been clearer but I meant that AG was a horrible watch for the TRio.

I actually like them in AG. Some of my favorite Trio jokes are there (Musashi thinking her Mayuld would evolve into an Agehunt, Nyasu's interaction with Masato, Kojirou's participation in the Poke-Ringer, Musashi ordering Habunake to use a bunch of moves it didn't know during her first contest, etc, etc...).

I'm not really a Trio fan, of course, so I don't really mind their low points in this saga as long as they stay funny.
 
Black and White. First they lost their personalities for like 20 episode for no adequately explained reason, then they got them back suddenly but were given few appearances regardless. Then they had those really annoying and pointless 2-parter schemes that felt like a waste of time. Then they disappeared for a while after Operation Tempest and returned with new Pokemon that had no personalities. Then they were given filler episode roles but still not often enough to really matter.
 
Team Rocket has never been build up towards battles. With that I mean that they have no nescesity to have strong Pokémon when they have a plan. That is why they resort to the mechas and the traps. Team Rocket trying to beat Ash in a fair battle is stupid. Plain and simple

About the different Pokémon they use. In the end they end up jobbing to Pikachu hard so I don't care. At least Marearnie and Mimmikyu put some fight. Oh by the way 90% of the time is just Pikachu who beats them. That shows you how well this series handles development.

And another thing. The only ones who put a fight where Tyranytar and Gyarados (Against Pikachu alone) , the Dusclops twins and Buneary and Cincino. The others did nothin. What about that Drapion and Scolipede? They did nothing. Jessie and Meowth had to fight. And to be fair I would like better if Jessie, James and Meowth fight with his owns hands than using the gatcha.



Then you should watch the Cacnea farewell episode or the Dustox one. You may see how a real Pokémon trainer has to behave. Not unlike others.



One of the things I hate more. STOCK MOTTO ANIMATION. Do you remember how glorious where the mottos in Sinnoh? Come on, less than 50% of the episodes and you have to use the same motto animation again again and again?

By the way the motto theme sucks, but the battle theme is amazing. Shame it is for glorified rental Pokémon.
Sure the Gatcha mon still lose in the end but I still appreciate the different variety. Plus it capitalizes on the new season promoting all generations of Pokemon.

And I've seen the Cacnea episode you mentioned and still don't care. The Pokemon TR owned outside of the original Arbok and Weezing never got an emotional attachment out of me so I'm glad they ditched that for Journeys
 
Sure the Gatcha mon still lose in the end but I still appreciate the different variety. Plus it capitalizes on the new season promoting all generations of Pokemon.

And I've seen the Cacnea episode you mentioned and still don't care. The Pokemon TR owned outside of the original Arbok and Weezing never got an emotional attachment out of me so I'm glad they ditched that for Journeys

Never got any emotional attachemnt cause unlike Go Team Rocket sees Pokémon as friends not tools to reach an end.

I will repeat: Friends not tools.
 
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The Rocket machine actually adds some variety with their battles against Ash by giving them different Pokemon to use. I'm never all that attached to the Pokemon they catch so I'm not too upset about them not catching their own

The problem with the gacha machine is that the pokemon that come out tie into a theme or a gag, such as Sobble's first big episode it was two pokemon who have eye designs on their bodies (to have the bait and switch of them appearing not to be affected then that they actually are).
 
It was difficult for me to pick between BW and Journeys, but after a quick comparison of the two, I decided to vote for Journeys.

One of the biggest issues I have with their portrayal in Journeys is how massive of a dropoff it is from SM. I just wrote my reasons in the other thread, but for me, SM Team Rocket was them at their best. The fact that almost none of that was carried over to the next series is incredibly disappointing. And while they've had a handful of really nice scenes + one or two very entertaining focus episodes, the rest of their (sparse) appearances have felt shoehorned, half assed, or just plain useless. It's a really poor representation of their characters, and it's just sad. And that awful Gacha machine...ugh. One of TR's highlights has always been the relationship they have with their Pokémon, because it shows a different side of them. Now that that's been taken away, it takes away a lot of the heart TR has, which is a shame.

Don't get me wrong, BW was also awful. Being forced into roles that didn't fit them, having the life sucked out of them...terrible. But at the very least I can give the writers a bit of a break because the Team Plasma arc never came to fruition, so we never got to see the true resolve for Team Rocket's serious turn. And they still had their own Pokémon. Those things are what enable me to give it a bit more of a pass than Journeys (although again, it still wasn't good by any stretch of the imagination lol).
 
ii kanji and kantoskies pretty much nailed a lot of my reasonings for BW being the worst series and to add on to what they were saying about TRio never truly recovering, while their personalities eventually returned with glory, there’s several aspects to their characters that haven’t and I feel like you can argue that a lot of the current situation in Journeys is a result of the choices made in BW.
The big one is how their Pokémon are handled. At the beginning of DP and prior, TRio would bring their Pokémon to a new region with their team growing with new ones and shrinking when it came time to release. Now flash forward to BW and suddenly they’re these obscenely serious emotion drained characters and all their Pokemon are gone! Habunake who's been on the team since early AG? Gone! Manene, Kojiro's baby and the closest Kojiro has to a Sonansu-like Pokemon/mascot? Gone! Megayanma, their most recent capture? Gone! Even Sonansu is suddenly gone with no proper sendoff, little care and the flimsiest of explanations. ‘They attract unwanted attention’ Uh Taurossh*#! Even if you wanted to push the only new Pokémon thing Unova was famous for at that point in time, you could’ve at least given them a proper sendoff like how AG did with Arbok and Weezing! It also doesn’t match up with their characters at all, especially Kojiro! Just because he lets Musashi use his Pokémon in Contests doesn't mean he's okay with leaving them in the dark storages of Team Rocket HQ, especially his baby Manene and childhood Pokémon Muskippa! I’ve seen people give Musashi flak for managing to have two (or in the case of Journeys, a) Pokémon but it's literally a matter of luck, Sonansu's iconicness, and fan response that he didn't meet the same fate as the others. It also gets worse when they retcon the 'only Unova Pokémon allowed' rule in the second half of the series (there's a Plasma Grunt in one episode that uses a Habunake for crying out loud) and a lot of the following regions very openly have old Pokémon residing in them so that excuse no longer works! But unfortunately this has been sent in stone for at the end of BW, their BW mons were given to Sakaki in a way that spelled out the writers clearly wanted to distance themselves from BW and the backlash (by the way, can I say that I feel so bad for Yamask? While a lot of their BW Pokemon were bland and forgettable, it was cute, had some personality, and it was caught in the classic Kojiro fashion which makes it's fate all the worse). And now their Pokémon disappear between every saga (except for Sun and Moon which openly acknowledged and dealt with this) so now Journeys has pretty much opted to cut out the middle mans (or mons if you will) and not give them a single Pokémon of their own this saga.

There’s also the fact that BW reduced their screen time dramatically. Now, don’t get me wrong, it’s good that TRio aren’t forced into every episode anymore, "quality over quantity', and they’re not as formulaic... but is it really necessary that they’re absent for months straight with no sign of when they’ll be back? Especially when taking the above into account, this is probably another big reason why they don’t have their own Pokémon this saga, because they barely appear and the Pokémon they caught would absolutely suffer from it. As much as I love SM and their Alolan team, that 20 episode gap between SM 91 and SM 111 was not good for Mimikyu’s characterization. And remember Takeshi Shudo considered them the stars of the show and just as main characters as Satoshi!

It also really bugs me that ever since the end of DP that outside of Giovanni and Matori, we never see any other old Team Rocket characters or characters related to the TRio anymore. No Delibird, no Attila or Hun, no Domino, no Dr. Nanba, and most of all no Butch and Cassidy. I saw some people saying in a different thread they’re obsolete now and we can talk about how they were treated post Johto but like... no. If they’d gotten a more proper send off with Jessie and James managing to beat them in a battle or doing something to save them with some sort of acknowledgment after either incident, I might be inclined to agree but as it is, they were just dropped in a desert with not much being resolved. Imagine if at the end of Johto, Ash never battled Gary, you didn’t even see him at the league, and you never saw him after. So now I’m just wondering how they took the rivals they looked and pushed down on suddenly rising up the ranks and exceeding them (which, by the way, can I say the explanation given is super flimsy and makes no sense! Oh they took credit for defeating Team Galactic? They tried the same thing prior with Team Aqua and Magma and Giovanni didn’t buy it so why did he buy it now?! I mean, I know this show has never been renowned for its writing but... come on!!!) How do they feel now when they’re slipping through the good graces, especially with Matori? Why aren’t they part of any of these special missions or operations?! No matter how you feel about their latter appearances, every single episode they appeared in pushed the fact that they were high ranked and highly respected agents, they were trusted with the important missions both from the Boss and a Team Rocket scientist, and were regularly given the better equipment so it makes zero sense why we don’t see them ever again after DP. I’ve seen people say they would’ve better for the serious Rockets in BW but after Journeys 24, I realize that despite their serious nature as villains, they honestly have enough personality that it would feel off if they had the soul sucking BW gave to TRio; Butch and Nanba had the name gag, Cassidy openly enjoyed antagonizing Jessie, and there was a little bit of a relationship there with their Hitmontop+Houndour and Mightyena+Sableye (so the Gacha wouldn’t fit well with them either). Quite honestly, if you wanted serious Rockets, go with Attila and Hun. And even worse, except for Matori, none of the new Rockets have lasted beyond their respective generation; Dr. Zager, Gozu, Alolan Nyasu, even Giovanni’s Persian, who’s been with him in every appearance prior except for quick cameos, has not made an appearance in Journeys. The only character that has a valid excuse for disappearing is Pierce and that’s because it was around the cancelled two parter. And while I’m glad SM gave her some personality and more to do and Journeys 24 has made me like Matori, I just find her so straightfaced and boring and I can’t help feeling like she’s a downgraded version of Cassidy or Domino.

And we haven’t gotten any backstory episodes since DP! Heck, since DP ended we have only gotten one flashback from TRio (XY 85) and a couple of little hints and references (such as in the Lillie arc). One! And when you consider the amount of flashbacks spread out among the first four generations, whether in Team Rocket focused episodes or regular, it becomes egregious. You had many stories about James’ rich childhood, Jessie growing up poor, holidays being cursed for her, their many jobs and attempts at honest careers, there was even a detail that because of food being so scarce to the point where snow was a meal, Musashi could eat and like anything, no matter how bad it was! You could make the argument that this is better for continuity (hi Bike Gang and Hoso) but there’s still so many interesting flashbacks and backstory episodes that you could do! Maybe we could see more of Nyasu’s life on the streets or how he found out about Team Rocket? Maybe we could find out what Kojiro was doing in the time between running away and joining Team Rocket, maybe clarify what is up with Pokémon Tech and the Bike Gang? Oh and :annoyedVoltorb: ING DO SOMETHING WITH MIYAMOTO! Such a big part of Musashi’s backstory and they do nothing despite having multiple opportunities as of recent between an episode about lost loved ones, a remake of the first movie, and a companion who’s entire goal revolves around getting Mew! Oh and remember how I said no TRio related characters have returned? That includes characters like Blissey (whose species ran the Pokémon Centers in SM) but most of all Jessebelle/Rumika! You can make the claim that Butch and Cassidy served their purpose and have been replaced by Matori, you can make the argument it’s a copyright issue that Miyamoto hasn’t appeared, there is no excuse for Rumika! The last time we saw her, she was chasing Kojiro and Nyasu in a steppe (what is it with DP dropping TRio antagonists in dry arid environments and that being their last appearance? It’s weird it happened twice). I gather it’s supposed to be a reference to how her debut episode ended but like, Satoshi can just blast her off with Pikachu as soon as the credits start rolling, Kojiro doesn’t have that and we know from the dungeon scene in Holy Matrimony that he doesn’t think straight when she’s right on his tail like that and he’s the one she’s after! As far as the viewer is concerned, she’s still after him! The person who wrote her last appearance is the current head writer so it’s not an issue of copyright and in most countries, she’s voiced by the same person as Musashi so VA isn’t an issue so there’s no reason why she couldn’t appear. She’s also never referenced again! While it didn’t happen a lot, every so often in sagas before BW, she would be referenced to (this happened with Butch and Cassidy too at times) and we saw the impact she’s had on Kojiro. That’s not a thing that happens anymore.

Some of you guys are probably wondering where I’m going with this since this was encompassing all of the recent sagas and not just BW but like, that’s the thing. There was such a shift that happened with BW that it completely changed the show. People have talked about how the four sagas after DP feel fragmented and disoriented in tone and writing but with Team Rocket, it feels like there’s a clear split between what was and what is. Maybe it’s petty but these things within this box is why I can’t bring myself to forgive BW because even with the canned two parter, even with interest in the Team Plasma finale, Team Rocket would still suddenly have this drastic personality change with little explanation with this new trend of leaving their beloved Pokémon behind between sagas with the disappearances of so many memorable and iconic characters related to them. That’s ultimately why I had to choose BW and this isn’t even everything I thought of over the years or while writing this.
TL;DR: A lot of the choices and traditions made in BW, such as the TRio's Pokemon being replaced every gen, contributed heavily to the current situation with the TRio in Journeys. I also hate how it completely jumbled the TRio's personal storylines, characterization, and marked DP as many beloved TRio/Team Rocket related characters' final appearances without a proper conclusion.

And as much issues as I have with Journeys, I love the artstyle, especially them in it, and they've had some good outings (Ditto episode, Resort episode, Chewtle *grumbles*, domestic Rockets).

The Rocket machine actually adds some variety with their battles against Ash by giving them different Pokemon to use.
This is kind of late now but you know, this is the most common defense I’ve seen for the Gacha. I know some of the responses I’ll get but I just want to ask, how would you feel if it was Ash who was stuck with the Gacha machine; if this entire series (or a previous series) he was just going around with Pikachu but whenever it’s time to battle in a match, instead of using his own Pokémon, he’s forced to roll a Gacha and use a random Pokémon. Sometimes it’s a powerful mon or a mon he could strategize with but most of the time, the Pokémon don’t listen to him or they’re completely useless. And he only uses them for that specific battle so he doesn’t get any time to try to get to know them or figure out a way to connect with them and bring out their full potential. Oh and Pikachu doesn’t battle, he just stands on the side. And Pokémon he bonds with or has a connection with like Dragonite or Kamon? He doesn’t catch them! And if he does, a poor overworked Pelipper comes and takes them away and you don’t see them except once or twice. But it’s okay, it’s for variety! That’s pretty much what Team Rocket fans are going through with the Gacha.

Matter of fact, why is it Team Rocket that get criticized about variety when most of Ash’s companions have had three or less during their time with Ash in a series?

Sure the Gatcha mon still lose in the end but I still appreciate the different variety. Plus it capitalizes on the new season promoting all generations of Pokemon.

And I've seen the Cacnea episode you mentioned and still don't care. The Pokemon TR owned outside of the original Arbok and Weezing never got an emotional attachment out of me so I'm glad they ditched that for Journeys
Here’s an idea, why not instead of giving them one Pokémon per region/saga, why not give them two or three? There’s Cramorant, Sinistea/Polteageist, Nickit, Sizzlipede/Centiskorch... Better yet, if you want variety or to advertise old Pokémon and some of the new ones from the current gen, here’s an idea; why don’t you go the pre BW route and bring back their HQ mons in storage! When they first announced this would be all regions, I was hoping this was what they'd do. Of course, it would take some major deus ex machinas to prevent seven Pokémon from sweeping Pikachu and Scorbunny (which is my theory on why they went with the Gacha) but now that we have Dragonite, Gengar, and Kamon barely doing anything and Gou currently having 71 Pokémon, it would probably be a good way to give them something to do. Plus when they're able to have Pokémon, they can catch one or two. On top of that, that variety you want, you'll get it because you'll never know which ones it'll be. Maybe sometimes it'll be the Sinnoh team, maybe sometimes it'll be the Kalos team, maybe it will be the new mons, maybe sometimes it will be all the HQ ones, maybe sometimes it'll be ALL of them! Not to mention, because they're Pokémon we have prior connection with, it would be interesting to see how they interact with each other and the new ones (for example, I headcanon Megayanma and Gourgeist are besties). Oh, and you know how during XY and SM there were frequent "Gee I wonder if they're really being released" episodes? Well now, there's a 50/50% chance that an episode hinting at such could very end with a release and even if it doesn't, there's a lot more unpredictableness.

Also just because you don’t have attachment to their Pokémon doesn’t mean others don’t so this parading of them not having a single new Pokémon as a good thing comes off as insensitive...
 
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ii kanji and kantoskies pretty much nailed a lot of my reasonings for BW being the worst series and to add on to what they were saying about TRio never truly recovering, while their personalities eventually returned with glory, there’s several aspects to their characters that haven’t and I feel like you can argue that a lot of the current situation in Journeys is a result of the choices made in BW.
The big one is how their Pokémon are handled. At the beginning of DP and prior, TRio would bring their Pokémon to a new region with their team growing with new ones and shrinking when it came time to release. Now flash forward to BW and suddenly they’re these obscenely serious emotion drained characters and all their Pokemon are gone! Habunake who's been on the team since early AG? Gone! Manene, Kojiro's baby and the closest Kojiro has to a Sonansu-like Pokemon/mascot? Gone! Megayanma, their most recent capture? Gone! Even Sonansu is suddenly gone with no proper sendoff, little care and the flimsiest of explanations. ‘They attract unwanted attention’ Uh Taurossh*#! Even if you wanted to push the only new Pokémon thing Unova was famous for at that point in time, you could’ve at least given them a proper sendoff like how AG did with Arbok and Weezing! It also doesn’t match up with their characters at all, especially Kojiro! Just because he lets Musashi use his Pokémon in Contests doesn't mean he's okay with leaving them in the dark storages of Team Rocket HQ, especially his baby Manene and childhood Pokémon Muskippa! I’ve seen people give Musashi flak for managing to have two (or in the case of Journeys, a) Pokémon but it's literally a matter of luck, Sonansu's iconicness, and fan response that he didn't meet the same fate as the others. It also gets worse when they retcon the 'only Unova Pokémon allowed' rule in the second half of the series (there's a Plasma Grunt in one episode that uses a Habunake for crying out loud) and a lot of the following regions very openly have old Pokémon residing in them so that excuse no longer works! But unfortunately this has been sent in stone for at the end of BW, their BW mons were given to Sakaki in a way that spelled out the writers clearly wanted to distance themselves from BW and the backlash (by the way, can I say that I feel so bad for Yamask? While a lot of their BW Pokemon were bland and forgettable, it was cute, had some personality, and it was caught in the classic Kojiro fashion which makes it's fate all the worse). And now their Pokémon disappear between every saga (except for Sun and Moon which openly acknowledged and dealt with this) so now Journeys has pretty much opted to cut out the middle mans (or mons if you will) and not give them a single Pokémon of their own this saga.

There’s also the fact that BW reduced their screen time dramatically. Now, don’t get me wrong, it’s good that TRio aren’t forced into every episode anymore, "quality over quantity', and they’re not as formulaic... but is it really necessary that they’re absent for months straight with no sign of when they’ll be back? Especially when taking the above into account, this is probably another big reason why they don’t have their own Pokémon this saga, because they barely appear and the Pokémon they caught would absolutely suffer from it. As much as I love SM and their Alolan team, that 20 episode gap between SM 91 and SM 111 was not good for Mimikyu’s characterization. And remember Takeshi Shudo considered them the stars of the show and just as main characters as Satoshi!

It also really bugs me that ever since the end of DP that outside of Giovanni and Matori, we never see any other old Team Rocket characters or characters related to the TRio anymore. No Delibird, no Attila or Hun, no Domino, no Dr. Nanba, and most of all no Butch and Cassidy. I saw some people saying in a different thread they’re obsolete now and we can talk about how they were treated post Johto but like... no. If they’d gotten a more proper send off with Jessie and James managing to beat them in a battle or doing something to save them with some sort of acknowledgment after either incident, I might be inclined to agree but as it is, they were just dropped in a desert with not much being resolved. Imagine if at the end of Johto, Ash never battled Gary, you didn’t even see him at the league, and you never saw him after. So now I’m just wondering how they took the rivals they looked and pushed down on suddenly rising up the ranks and exceeding them (which, by the way, can I say the explanation given is super flimsy and makes no sense! Oh they took credit for defeating Team Galactic? They tried the same thing prior with Team Aqua and Magma and Giovanni didn’t buy it so why did he buy it now?! I mean, I know this show has never been renowned for its writing but... come on!!!) How do they feel now when they’re slipping through the good graces, especially with Matori? Why aren’t they part of any of these special missions or operations?! No matter how you feel about their latter appearances, every single episode they appeared in pushed the fact that they were high ranked and highly respected agents, they were trusted with the important missions both from the Boss and a Team Rocket scientist, and were regularly given the better equipment so it makes zero sense why we don’t see them ever again after DP. I’ve seen people say they would’ve better for the serious Rockets in BW but after Journeys 24, I realize that despite their serious nature as villains, they honestly have enough personality that it would feel off if they had the soul sucking BW gave to TRio; Butch and Nanba had the name gag, Cassidy openly enjoyed antagonizing Jessie, and there was a little bit of a relationship there with their Hitmontop+Houndour and Mightyena+Sableye (so the Gacha wouldn’t fit well with them either). Quite honestly, if you wanted serious Rockets, go with Attila and Hun. And even worse, except for Matori, none of the new Rockets have lasted beyond their respective generation; Dr. Zager, Gozu, Alolan Nyasu, even Giovanni’s Persian, who’s been with him in every appearance prior except for quick cameos, has not made an appearance in Journeys. The only character that has a valid excuse for disappearing is Pierce and that’s because it was around the cancelled two parter. And while I’m glad SM gave her some personality and more to do and Journeys 24 has made me like Matori, I just find her so straightfaced and boring and I can’t help feeling like she’s a downgraded version of Cassidy or Domino.

And we haven’t gotten any backstory episodes since DP! Heck, since DP ended we have only gotten one flashback from TRio (XY 85) and a couple of little hints and references (such as in the Lillie arc). One! And when you consider the amount of flashbacks spread out among the first four generations, whether in Team Rocket focused episodes or regular, it becomes egregious. You had many stories about James’ rich childhood, Jessie growing up poor, holidays being cursed for her, their many jobs and attempts at honest careers, there was even a detail that because of food being so scarce to the point where snow was a meal, Musashi could eat and like anything, no matter how bad it was! You could make the argument that this is better for continuity (hi Bike Gang and Hoso) but there’s still so many interesting flashbacks and backstory episodes that you could do! Maybe we could see more of Nyasu’s life on the streets or how he found out about Team Rocket? Maybe we could find out what Kojiro was doing in the time between running away and joining Team Rocket, maybe clarify what is up with Pokémon Tech and the Bike Gang? Oh and :annoyedVoltorb: ING DO SOMETHING WITH MIYAMOTO! Such a big part of Musashi’s backstory and they do nothing despite having multiple opportunities as of recent between an episode about lost loved ones, a remake of the first movie, and a companion who’s entire goal revolves around getting Mew! Oh and remember how I said no TRio related characters have returned? That includes characters like Blissey (whose species ran the Pokémon Centers in SM) but most of all Jessebelle/Rumika! You can make the claim that Butch and Cassidy served their purpose and have been replaced by Matori, you can make the argument it’s a copyright issue that Miyamoto hasn’t appeared, there is no excuse for Rumika! The last time we saw her, she was chasing Kojiro and Nyasu in a steppe (what is it with DP dropping TRio antagonists in a desert? It’s weird it happened twice and that’s the last time we’ve seen both). I gather it’s supposed to be a reference to how her debut episode ended but like, Satoshi can just blast her off with Pikachu as soon as the credits start rolling, Kojiro doesn’t have that and we know from the dungeon scene in Holy Matrimony that he doesn’t think straight when she’s right on his tail like that and he’s the one she’s after! As far as the viewer is concerned, she’s still after him! And she’s also never referenced again! While it didn’t happen a lot, every so often in sagas before BW, she would be referenced to (this happened with Butch and Cassidy too at times) and we saw the impact she’s had on Kojiro. That’s not a thing that happens anymore.

Some of you guys are probably wondering where I’m going with this since this was encompassing all of the recent sagas and not just BW but like, that’s the thing. There was such a shift that happened with BW that it completely changed the show. People have talked about how the four sagas after DP feel fragmented and disoriented in tone and writing but with Team Rocket, it feels like there’s a clear split between what was and what is. Maybe it’s petty but these things within this box is why I can’t bring myself to forgive BW because even with the canned two parter, even with interest in the Team Plasma finale, Team Rocket would still suddenly have this drastic personality change with little explanation with this new trend of leaving their beloved Pokémon behind between sagas with the disappearances of so many memorable and iconic characters related to them. That’s ultimately why I had to choose BW and this isn’t even everything I thought of over the years or while writing this.
TL;DR: A lot of the choices and traditions made in BW, such as the TRio's Pokemon being replaced every gen, contributed heavily to the current situation with the TRio in Journeys. I also hate how it completely jumbled the TRio's personal storylines, characterization, and marked DP as many beloved TRio/Team Rocket related characters' final appearances without a proper conclusion.

And as much issues as I have with Journeys, I love the artstyle, especially them in it, and they've had some good outings (Ditto episode, Resort episode, Chewtle *grumbles*, domestic Rockets).


This is kind of late now but you know, this is the most common defense I’ve seen for the Gacha. I know some of the responses I’ll get but I just want to ask, how would you feel if it was Ash who was stuck with the Gacha machine; if this entire series (or a previous series) he was just going around with Pikachu but whenever it’s time to battle in a match, instead of using his own Pokémon, he’s forced to roll a Gacha and use a random Pokémon. Sometimes it’s a powerful mon or a mon he could strategize with but most of the time, the Pokémon don’t listen to him or they’re completely useless. And he only uses them for that specific battle so he doesn’t get any time to try to get to know them or figure out a way to connect with them and bring out their full potential. Oh and Pikachu doesn’t battle, he just stands on the side. And Pokémon he bonds with or has a connection with like Dragonite or Kamon? He doesn’t catch them! And if he does, a poor overworked Pelipper comes and takes them away and you don’t see them except once or twice. But it’s okay, it’s for variety! That’s pretty much what Team Rocket fans are going through with the Gacha.

Matter of fact, why is it Team Rocket that get criticized about variety when most of Ash’s companions have had three or less during their time with Ash in a series?


Here’s an idea, why not instead of giving them one Pokémon per region/saga, why not give them two or three? There’s Cramorant, Sinistea/Polteageist, Nickit, Sizzlipede/Centiskorch... Better yet, if you want variety or to advertise old Pokémon and some of the new ones from the current gen, here’s an idea; why don’t you go the pre BW route and bring back their HQ mons in storage! When they first announced this would be all regions, I was hoping this was what they'd do. Of course, it would take some major deus ex machinas to prevent seven Pokémon from sweeping Pikachu and Scorbunny (which is my theory on why they went with the Gacha) but now that we have Dragonite, Gengar, and Kamon barely doing anything and Gou currently having 71 Pokémon, it would probably be a good way to give them something to do. Plus when they're able to have Pokémon, they can catch one or two. On top of that, that variety you want, you'll get it because you'll never know which ones it'll be. Maybe sometimes it'll be the Sinnoh team, maybe sometimes it'll be the Kalos team, maybe it will be the new mons, maybe sometimes it will be all the HQ ones, maybe sometimes it'll be ALL of them! Not to mention, because they're Pokémon we have prior connection with, it would be interesting to see how they interact with each other and the new ones (for example, I headcanon Megayanma and Gourgeist are besties). Oh, and you know how during XY and SM there were frequent "Gee I wonder if they're really being released" episodes? Well now, there's a 50/50% chance that an episode hinting at such could very end with a release and even if it doesn't, there's a lot more unpredictableness.

Also just because you don’t have attachment to their Pokémon doesn’t mean others don’t so this parading of them not having a single new Pokémon as a good thing comes off as insensitive...
It's my opinion. If I like the fact that they don't have any new captures I'll express it. It's fine if you disagree but I'm not going to hide my praise of the Gatcha Machine just because fans don't like it.
 
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It's my opinion. If I like the fact that they don't have any new captures I'll express it. It's fine if you disagree but I'm not kind to hide my praise of the Gatcha Machine just because fans don't like it.
She didn't tell you not to express your opinions, she asked you to be a bit more sensitive to other fans' feelings. Which... this one-line, biting response (to a lengthy and nuanced analysis) absolutely fails to do...
 
@TRNatalie
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She didn't tell you not to express your opinions, she asked you to be a bit more sensitive to other fans' feelings. Which... this one-line, biting response (to a lengthy and nuanced analysis) absolutely fails to do...
And I just said it was fine if you disagree with me on the Gatcha. I'm not telling people that there wrong about not liking the fact they aren't catching any Pokemon. And if you like their past Pokemon I get it. But I just dont
 
And I just said it was fine if you disagree with me on the Gatcha. I'm not telling people that there wrong about not liking the fact they aren't catching any Pokemon. And if you like their past Pokemon I get it. But I just dont

Understand that this season for Team Rocket fans is not beeing easy.

And quite frankly we are getting tired.
 
According to me Team rocket trio were handled very good at Unnova and Journeys because in Unnova they acted as professional criminals and served as a root to all the major and interesting arcs of the series .In journeys they were also joined by the gotcha machine and an Pokemon that can Gigantamax like Meowth ,hope that there would be an interesting VMAX Battle between Pikachu and team rocket.
The worst series to me is the original series ,because I always skip their part in episodes.
 
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