Worst Way Ash Has Lost The Pokemon League?

[dman_dustin]

Personally I never got that vibe at all. It seemed obvious from the start that Oshawott was being primed as Piplup's replacement.

Oshawott wanted to get stronger, he went into battles (against Ash) to prove himself, to develop, to get stronger, the best way is to ultimately evolve.

He had an episode devoted to him to learn to not rely on his Scalchop. All of that development completely disappeared and didn't seem to exist, the only development that ever stuck for Oshawott is him opening his eyes when using Aqua Jet.

But fast forward to the battle with Cheren. Oshawott lost the battle because he lost his Scalchop, completely undermining the development that occurred in the previous episode in regards to Oshawott's Scalchop.

Oshawott's development stagnated after that Scalchop episode, Oshawott only showed up for the sake of showing up, and didn't develop.

I can see how one would look back and think hey Oshawott was just a Piplup clone, because that's what happened. But it was clear to me from the beginning, because I remember what I felt during the beginning of the BW series, and Oshawott was supposed to be what Froakie-Frogadier is now becoming. I always felt that Oshawott was supposed to evolve, supposed to develop, supposed to grow stronger, be a proud member of Ash's team based on certain Oshawott's characteristics. It was supposed to be Ash's MVP, not Pignite. They even had Ash comment one time in regards to Oshawott that Ash himself relied on Oshawott over all of his Unova Pokemon believed in Oshawott more than his other Pokemon, but in the end, we ended up getting a subpar Pokemon that literally did absolutely nothing important. Even thinking of it now, Oshawott wasn't even a clone of Piplup, because at least Piplup was valued member of Dawn's team. Oshawott was expendable and ultimately pointless.

The feeling of disappointment when Oshawott was not going to be what I felt it was going to be, will be etched in my memory forever.

 

[ManUtd22]

When was it stated during [Then of course there's Roxie, let's make it a 6 vs 3, and of course only give wins to Pikachu and Pignite (well true there's Leavanny but we can overlook that because of what happened in the league). So no, they could have written betSo no, losing to Cameron was NOT justified, at all. But maybe I can see why Lucario > Eeveelution

Well, he not just not justified beating Ash, he not justife a signle pokemon if you ask me. losing to eveelution must be 6-0 not 6-3 my friend

I'm confused. The 6-3 was the match up against Roxie (hence the 'vs' between the numbers) , Ash used a full team while Roxie only used 3 Pokemon. It was not a direct number reference to Cameron, it was only in relation to the quality of battles, and to show they didn't have make inferior quality battles to the point Ash losing to Cameron was justified because Ash was a loser, or whatever the case was.

If that's your opinion that Ash should've beat Cameron 6-0 that's fine, but definitely there was no 6-3 in regards to Cameron in my post since it was 6 vs 3, and even then that was relating to Roxie's battle.

No, No ash won 5-3 when he challenge Roxie, but I meant Cameron should lost 6-0 when he challenged that man who have eveeloution pokemon because he lost 6-3 and he must lose 6-0. But I didn't thought before about ash beating Cameron 6-0 but so thanks for this point my friend

 

[garrison-san]

I can see how one would look back and think hey Oshawott was just a Piplup clone, because that's what happened. But it was clear to me from the beginning, because I remember what I felt during the beginning of the BW series, and Oshawott was supposed to be what Froakie-Frogadier is now becoming.

I remember exactly how I felt about Oshawott at the start of Best Wishes too - namely, that he was Piplup's replacement and probably not going to evolve. In the early stages of the series he was depicted as Ash's "main" Unova pokemon, and I suspect that's why a lot of viewers expected him to evolve, but at exactly the same time he was a comedic character who did clownish things and pulled OTT facial expressions, which IMO made him more akin to Piplup than to Froakie. Tepig, by contrast, didn't have much personality beyond being sensitive to losing, which made him more serious and, by extension, much more evolution-friendly.

 

[dman_dustin]

When was it stated during [Then of course there's Roxie, let's make it a 6 vs 3, and of course only give wins to Pikachu and Pignite (well true there's Leavanny but we can overlook that because of what happened in the league). So no, they could have written betSo no, losing to Cameron was NOT justified, at all. But maybe I can see why Lucario > Eeveelution

Well, he not just not justified beating Ash, he not justife a signle pokemon if you ask me. losing to eveelution must be 6-0 not 6-3 my friend

I'm confused. The 6-3 was the match up against Roxie (hence the 'vs' between the numbers) , Ash used a full team while Roxie only used 3 Pokemon. It was not a direct number reference to Cameron, it was only in relation to the quality of battles, and to show they didn't have make inferior quality battles to the point Ash losing to Cameron was justified because Ash was a loser, or whatever the case was.

If that's your opinion that Ash should've beat Cameron 6-0 that's fine, but definitely there was no 6-3 in regards to Cameron in my post since it was 6 vs 3, and even then that was relating to Roxie's battle.

No, No ash won 5-3 when he challenge Roxie, but I meant Cameron should lost 6-0 when he challenged that man who have eveeloution pokemon because he lost 6-3 and he must lose 6-0. But I didn't thought before about ash beating Cameron 6-0 but so thanks for this point my friend

No I meant Ash used 6 Pokemon while Roxie used 3 Pokemon, I was referring to the match up not the outcome. Hence again the "vs" between the numbers, it has nothing to do with the outcome, that's a different number altogether.

 

[ManUtd22]

When was it stated during [Then of course there's Roxie, let's make it a 6 vs 3, and of course only give wins to Pikachu and Pignite (well true there's Leavanny but we can overlook that because of what happened in the league). So no, they could have written betSo no, losing to Cameron was NOT justified, at all. But maybe I can see why Lucario > Eeveelution

Well, he not just not justified beating Ash, he not justife a signle pokemon if you ask me. losing to eveelution must be 6-0 not 6-3 my friend

I'm confused. The 6-3 was the match up against Roxie (hence the 'vs' between the numbers) , Ash used a full team while Roxie only used 3 Pokemon. It was not a direct number reference to Cameron, it was only in relation to the quality of battles, and to show they didn't have make inferior quality battles to the point Ash losing to Cameron was justified because Ash was a loser, or whatever the case was.

If that's your opinion that Ash should've beat Cameron 6-0 that's fine, but definitely there was no 6-3 in regards to Cameron in my post since it was 6 vs 3, and even then that was relating to Roxie's battle.

No, No ash won 5-3 when he challenge Roxie, but I meant Cameron should lost 6-0 when he challenged that man who have eveeloution pokemon because he lost 6-3 and he must lose 6-0. But I didn't thought before about ash beating Cameron 6-0 but so thanks for this point my friend

No I meant Ash used 6 Pokemon while Roxie used 3 Pokemon, I was referring to the match up not the outcome. Hence again the "vs" between the numbers, it has nothing to do with the outcome, that's a different number altogether.

Yes, I know my friend so I said 5-3 which means he used 6 and she used 3

 

[Jammy2A]

Obviously Unova, there s not even a discussion to be had there. Kanto is fair enough, I mean he had just started his journey, Johto and Hoenn were losses against better trainers, simply put. And Sinnoh was an amazing battle, which really made you feel like if Ash had applied himself he might have been able to give a good run to an E4 member.

But I think the Unova loss is made so much worse by his previous performance in Sinnoh, I mean come on, the Ash battling in Sinnoh is incredible! Taking down Volkner, making Tower Tycoon Palmer sweat a little, beating 2 overly trained and overpowering legendaries (god knows what other pokémon Tobias had on his team...), and then in the Unova league he just forgets everything he learned! Every little thing: no idea how to take advantage of the battle arena, no idea how to play on his own pokémon's strength, and overcome type disadvantage and no forward strategic thinking whatsoever.

This Ash belongs between Kanto and the Orange Islands at most, yes even his battle against Drake was better than this. Even Cynthia watching this must think "is he really the same guy who battled in the Lilly of the Valley conference??"

 

[pokemon fan 132]

I dont want to sound unoriginal, but i also have to conform myself to majority and say Unova league, also better known as Vertress conference.

Because if there was one league where writers managed to make Ash humiliated and presented in low light, it was this league.

Sure you can say how Indigo league had lot of facepalm hings, such as Ash almost missing match and several of his pokemon being exhausted in fighting with Team Rocket(those three surely took their time in trying to ruin Ash chances of winning succeeding). His pokemon being disqualified because of falling asleep or losing directly due to Charizard disobedience.

But very positive thing coming from Ash loss was lesson he learned. Realizing how he isn't skilled as his arrogance led him to believe as trainer, how road toward becoming successful pokemon expert and master is in hard work and renunciation taking whole tournament too easily. And reflecting back on mistakes he did with pokemon, especially Charizard not realizing size of problem.

Well that is after Misty drawed him out of bed and giving him motivation speech in stopping to selfpity himself and take defeat with dignity.

Sinnoh league had cheap ending introducing superpowerful trainer out of nowhere using possibly whole team comprised just of legendary pokemon(if Latias and Darkrai were something to go by). Unknown trainer(better known as Tobias) with no build up, backstory or much dive in his character and motives. Being all that more jarring to see Ash get stopped like this.

But Lily of Valley conference had enough other greatly written things which overshadowed that small spot.

Witnessing to spectacular three episode long battle between Ash and his biggest rival in DP Oaul. Being showdown between two competely different ideologies and Ash finally proving how his methods and belief of every pokemon being valuable if trained with love and patience can become formidable force. When Chimchar as Infernape defeated Paul starting to have more respect for Ash.

Sinnoh league gave us lot of well planned and detailed battles vs Nando, Barry or Conway with Ash seeming competent and strategic like never before. Seeming like nothing can stop him from winning league scoring best result so far.

So i can't hold against that league too much either.

But Unova league was entirely different story. Not just because of way Ash lost but all factors which preceeded toward this such as pooor management of his pokremon being wasted lot of potential. Such as Oshawott, Snivy or underused pokemon like Palpitoad or Boldore etc.

Coming with ill prepared and not that much trained pokemon team.

Ash main rival Trip losing already in first round delivering anticlimactic closure to rivalry which had connotations of such only on paper.

To Ash doom coming of in form of possibly dumbest and most scatterbrained character in history of pokemon; Cameron.

Thinking how 7 badges are enough to qualify for league with Ash and co having to guide him helping to reach 8th by battling Marlon. Than thinking how Unova league is held in Johto almost boarding on plane to get there???

And to make things worse bringing in full pokemon match just 5 pokemon thinking 6 are not allowed in battle 6 on 6?
Thats some highly questionable intelligence.

I suppose Cameron forgettful and rash nature was supposed to serve aim of delivering humor bursting laugh from audience, but his characterization and actions were so jarring. That it invoked in me complete opposite coming of as annoying opponent Ash went against. Delivering more so irritation and disbelief than anything else with humor just not being handled clever enough in BW series imo.

What i consider another low point in Ash matchg vs Cameron is fact of whole battle being pervated with no strategy from either side spamming one attack after another(this was especially notable in battle against Hydreigon with Ash not coming up with any plan counting on just beating it with direct approach).

Cameron not even knowing what he was doing wasting two pokemon Ferrothorn and Swanna as canon fodder, to the point of his last pokemon Riolu evolving and stealing basically victory when it seemed like Ash finally gained grip starting to be on winning side.

Just to see that same character who defeated Ash losing fairly quickly and easily vs Virgil with Ash not even getting compensation of at least being kicked out by what some would think to be exceptionally strong trainer. Such as Harrison who came as runner up in Johto, Tyson and Tobias being league winners etc.

Resulting in main hero scoring worse result than he had in previous region having shameful fall down.

 

[herb]

Unova 100%. He had literally one fully evolved Pokemon with him and that was an Unfezant. He has had so many strong ones over the years and then decides to bring out a couple of his weakest Pokemon he ever owned. How can we even believe he is serious about wanting to become champion when he doesn't use his strongest Pokemon.

Imagine the team Ash could have made if he used his brains for once. Of course Goodra, Snorlax and Lapras would make it most of the time along with Sceptile/Torterra and Infernape/Charizard. Then add one of his other fully evolved Pokemon like Heracross, Krookodile, Donphan, Glalie or Gliscor. I'm pretty sure he could've won the Unova league with a team like that but instead he loses to a braindead kid because he rather uses unevolved Pokemon.

 

[Beth Pavell]

I'm going to go for Sinnoh, much as I didn't like Unova. Ash vs Paul was always going to be the real climax of the League, and that's fine. What I didn't like was how the Tobias match wasn't even much of a match at all, so much as a hurried writer's trick to get the League finished and Ash knocked out after the Paul battle happened. Compare to the Johto League - Gary was still the real climax of the arc, but we got a decent battle with Harrison to follow

 

[Shadowlarvitar]

Unova. I thought the Eevee guy(Forget his name) was going to be the one who kicks Ash out. And that is how it should have been. Cameron was an idiot and shouldn't have come close to beating Ash. Not to mention Riolu just happening to evolve right then and there...... and Cameron lost next round

 

[hhhhdmt]

I do not consider Harrison to be a better trainer than Ash. Yes, Harrison had a terrefic and powerful Blaziken but Ash's Charizard was nearly or just as strong. The rest of Ash's pokemon (Bayleef, Tauros, Bubasaur, Squirtle, Pikachu) IMO were better than most of Harrison's IMO. The problem was that Ash was using his weaker pokemon like Tododile and Noctowl against an experienced trainer like Harrison. Now, i love Tododile and Noctowl, but they simply did not have the experience and strength to be fighting so deep into the league, they are the type of pokemon that should be used in the earlier rounds instead. IMO Ash would have beaten Harrison with better team selection.


The sinnoh loss was the worst, Tobias was a troll, nothing else. 2 legendaries? I mean its like the writers could not think of a creative way for Ash to lose. Poor writing, that's all.

 

[Otter Mii-kun]

I've only watched the Indigo and Johto championships, but by far, I'd say the worst one was Indigo. I pretty much knew what was going to happen once Ash called out Charizard. It's bad enough he almost didn't make it to the match and would have been disqualified.

 

[dman_dustin]

Unova 100%. He had literally one fully evolved Pokemon with him and that was an Unfezant. He has had so many strong ones over the years and then decides to bring out a couple of his weakest Pokemon he ever owned. How can we even believe he is serious about wanting to become champion when he doesn't use his strongest Pokemon.

Imagine the team Ash could have made if he used his brains for once. Of course Goodra, Snorlax and Lapras would make it most of the time along with Sceptile/Torterra and Infernape/Charizard. Then add one of his other fully evolved Pokemon like Heracross, Krookodile, Donphan, Glalie or Gliscor. I'm pretty sure he could've won the Unova league with a team like that but instead he loses to a braindead kid because he rather uses unevolved Pokemon.

I'm going ahead and say that had Ash used his BEST Unova Pokemon against Cameron (such as Krookodile, and maybe Leavanny, replacing Snivy and Unfezant/Oshawott) I'd still think Ash would lose in a very stupid way.

I guess at the very least we should be grateful that he was using Snivy and Oshawott, so at least it made his loss a little more believable than had it been Krookodile and Leavanny.

 

[herb]

Unova 100%. He had literally one fully evolved Pokemon with him and that was an Unfezant. He has had so many strong ones over the years and then decides to bring out a couple of his weakest Pokemon he ever owned. How can we even believe he is serious about wanting to become champion when he doesn't use his strongest Pokemon.

Imagine the team Ash could have made if he used his brains for once. Of course Goodra, Snorlax and Lapras would make it most of the time along with Sceptile/Torterra and Infernape/Charizard. Then add one of his other fully evolved Pokemon like Heracross, Krookodile, Donphan, Glalie or Gliscor. I'm pretty sure he could've won the Unova league with a team like that but instead he loses to a braindead kid because he rather uses unevolved Pokemon.

I'm going ahead and say that had Ash used his BEST Unova Pokemon against Cameron (such as Krookodile, and maybe Leavanny, replacing Snivy and Unfezant/Oshawott) I'd still think Ash would lose in a very stupid way.

I guess at the very least we should be grateful that he was using Snivy and Oshawott, so at least it made his loss a little more believable than had it been Krookodile and Leavanny.

Using non-evolved Pokemon in the Pokemon League is a bad idea in nearly every way you look at it. Some have built up some credit on their own like Dragonair and Lairon and others received an evolution later on but could still be used themselves as well (Rhydon, Electabuzz etc). So, there are exceptions but using a Snivy and Oshawott is just dumb. Especially when that same numbnut could have just gotten any of his really strong Pokemon like any of his fully evolved starters or Snorlax. Even better if that guy finally realizes it might be a bad idea to keep releasing every pseudo-legendary he has.

The problem lies in the anime team not being able to give Ash strong opponents (do not read people with legendaries but just people with capable teams of 6 fully evolved Pokemon) so he wouldn't have to hold back the entire time. Nor would they have to portray some Pokemon as stronger than they really are. In the Hoenn and Battle Frontier arcs Corfish was one of if not Ash's strongest Pokemon for some reason.

That's why Ash vs Gary in the Johto League is still my favorite fight in the anime. Next to the obvious heavily built up story behind it, it was actually the most impressive because Ash actually did his all to win instead of using weak Pokemon to prove how much fun it is to lose.

 

[Master Cyrus]

Im pretty suprised people actually think Ash is going going to win the Kalos league.

I mean everyone knew Ash was more than qualified to beat the sinnoh league and join the champion league and the writers did as well hence trollbias was made.

If they'd stoop that low once they can and will do it again.

OT:Kanto

 

[Boots2@sses]

Im pretty suprised people actually think Ash is going going to win the Kalos league.

I mean everyone knew Ash was more than qualified to beat the sinnoh league and join the champion league and the writers did as well hence trollbias was made.

If they'd stoop that low once they can and will do it again.

OT:Kanto

It's not too surprising you know. Ash is inevitably gonna win the league someday, so there's always a possibility of him winning in each region.

You should know by now why trollbias was made in the first place, writers didn't had time to 'drag an elite four challenge' arc out of sinnoh due to gen 5 being around the corner and i always believe their first intention was to have him win there but due to lack of time couldn't do so With the way ash's kalos league challenge is building up i wouldn't be surprised if he wins the league and there might be a post league arc considering how quick gym battles are happening which could be ash challenging elite four and diantha. So there's no reason to jump to conclusions so quick, who knows writers might just surprise us.

 

[sc190191]

I was pretty annoyed when Ash lost to Harrison because he didn't even get that he had a type advantage. It was also even more disappointing that Harrison didn't even win the league. However, it was probably worse the way he lost to Tobias. It was pretty lazy by the writers to just create a guy who has all legendaries, after no one else in the entire history of the anime had actually caught a legendary (because the Articuno Noland had was not actually caught). They at least had Ash do better against Tobias than anyone else did, but it would have been neat if it could have at least been in the final and he would have been top two. What was even more annoying about that battle was how quickly Swellow lost. Anyone who watched the AG series knows that Swellow never got knocked out quickly, so it was a HUGE middle finger to fans of the AG series that Swellow would get one hit. It was the most disappointing because Ash's Sinnoh team was easily his best team ever, he actually had good strategies, and he was willing to use his best Pokemon from his entire journey (it was really cool to see how good Noctowl was). Another pet peeve about Ash's battle against Tobias was how Pikachu could draw against a Latios, then a few weeks later lose to a beginning trainer's (Trip) Snivy, even without electric attacks. Drives me crazy how Pikachu magically gets bad every time Ash starts a new journey, but thats a different discussion.

 

[Muur]

Unova 100%. He had literally one fully evolved Pokemon with him and that was an Unfezant. He has had so many strong ones over the years and then decides to bring out a couple of his weakest Pokemon he ever owned. How can we even believe he is serious about wanting to become champion when he doesn't use his strongest Pokemon.

Imagine the team Ash could have made if he used his brains for once. Of course Goodra, Snorlax and Lapras would make it most of the time along with Sceptile/Torterra and Infernape/Charizard. Then add one of his other fully evolved Pokemon like Heracross, Krookodile, Donphan, Glalie or Gliscor. I'm pretty sure he could've won the Unova league with a team like that but instead he loses to a braindead kid because he rather uses unevolved Pokemon.

How would Goodra be in his Unova team?

It'd be a struggle for him to find the exact same Lapras... who barely battled.

Lapras and Heracross are 'unevolved' by the way.

I was pretty annoyed when Ash lost to Harrison because he didn't even get that he had a type advantage. It was also even more disappointing that Harrison didn't even win the league. However, it was probably worse the way he lost to Tobias. It was pretty lazy by the writers to just create a guy who has all legendaries, after no one else in the entire history of the anime had actually caught a legendary (because the Articuno Noland had was not actually caught).

Brandon says hi.

 

[72485rahul]

it was probably in the Unova League. 1st he won against a experienced trainer (his rival Trip) with his Pikachu. and then lost to a trainer which is not so much experienced.

 

[herb]

How would Goodra be in his Unova team?

It'd be a struggle for him to find the exact same Lapras... who barely battled.

Lapras and Heracross are 'unevolved' by the way.

Are you seriously arguing that it's better to use a Snivy, Oshawott and Pignite over Goodra, Heracross and Lapras?