Would a Paul-type Jerk Rival work in Journeys?

[KrspaceT]

....A related but distinct enough topic to another new thread I made to ask the question.

IMO while Paul could have been written much better consistency wise he remains Ash's best rival. I say that as someone who isn't even a big DP era anime fan. He does everything Gary was supposed to do a lot better, and few rivals had his time and pacing to make work. Not even Gary who got lost somewhere in Johto for half a decade or so. A combination of talent and drive that the best of Ash has, but with a dark opposite element that make an utter foil of the pride of Pallet Town.

While the exact breed of Jerk Rival can differ (you could just have a guy who is utterly antisocial with people and instead of telling Ash he is too nice to his Pokemon and it holds them back like Paul might he could go tell Ash that tying himself to Goh or Professor Cerise holds him back) I'm curious if that would work in Journeys.

 

[Panky..]

A recurring rival who's literally the same side of the opposite coin to Ash, would work fantastically with the current formula. It would also make sense to see both of them pushing each other simultaneously as they climb the ranks. Currently, Ash's only established rival is Bea, and she's very much out of Ash's reach for quite a while and won't be the type of rival that could continuously test Ash throughout the series, one who learns from Ash and ends up teaching him coincidentally. That, and she might only be a 'roadblock rival' for Ash's entry into the Master tier given the way she's set up.

 

[nickdt]

....A related but distinct enough topic to another new thread I made to ask the question.

IMO while Paul could have been written much better consistency wise he remains Ash's best rival. I say that as someone who isn't even a big DP era anime fan. He does everything Gary was supposed to do a lot better, and few rivals had his time and pacing to make work. Not even Gary who got lost somewhere in Johto for half a decade or so. A combination of talent and drive that the best of Ash has, but with a dark opposite element that make an utter foil of the pride of Pallet Town.

While the exact breed of Jerk Rival can differ (you could just have a guy who is utterly antisocial with people and instead of telling Ash he is too nice to his Pokemon and it holds them back like Paul might he could go tell Ash that tying himself to Goh or Professor Cerise holds him back) I'm curious if that would work in Journeys.

Yes, but make it easy by just bringing back Paul.

 

[game3524]

I don't think a Paul type of rival works for Journey's. Paul/Ash rivalry was about conflicting Pokemon training philosophies. IMO, that isn't a good fit for this series which seems to be more about the spirit of competition. The Bea setup is good. (Both characters want to beat Leon, so they push each other to improve to reach that goal. It is simple and effective). IMO, the problem is that Bea isn't Ash's equal. This sort of set up would have worked much better with a kid around his own age.

 

[Fan of Jarrus]

Bede should be in Journeys as a jerk rival.

 

[Emmy]

Right from the get-go, I knew something was off when they introduced the PWC yet all Ash was facing was one-off nobodies. Ash would go up in Rank but never be challenged physically or mentally by his opponents, and while he wants to face Leon he has an extremely laid-back approach to it and the idea that someone else might get to Leon first doesn't seem to cross his mind. If they wanted to do right by the PWC then the writers needed to have at least one Rival from the beginning who Ash is personally competing against and grows in Rank alongside him. From the looks of things, Bea is intended to serve as a pseudo-rival but she's introduced to little too late for my liking since the damage has already been done and she still feels like only a temporary "wall" that Ash will overcome sooner or later.

TL;DR It didn't have to be Paul-levels of antagonism, but if you were going to limit Ash's reoccurring Rival down to one person then a Jerk Rival probably would have been the best option. Someone like Hop on his own for example, probably wouldn't cut it for Ash's rival methinks.

 

[KrspaceT]

I don't think a Paul type of rival works for Journey's. Paul/Ash rivalry was about conflicting Pokemon training philosophies. IMO, that isn't a good fit for this series which seems to be more about the spirit of competition. The Bea setup is good. (Both characters want to beat Leon, so they push each other to improve to reach that goal. It is simple and effective). IMO, the problem is that Bea isn't Ash's equal. This sort of set up would have worked much better with a kid around his own age.

There is a lot you can do with competition. I used a take that is Ash's opposite in dealing with people instead of his Mons for a reason which probably works better than Shamus or Damien style jerks.

 

[FelipePR]

From the looks of things, Bea is intended to serve as a pseudo-rival but she's introduced to little too late for my liking since the damage has already been done and she still feels like only a temporary "wall" that Ash will overcome sooner or later.

Yeah, it’s quite likely that next time they face off Ash will beat her, and that is it. Bea participation ends there.

From Ash's crushing defeat to a tie with Bea, very few episodes have passed. Considering a competitive spirit , I believe it would be more beneficial if Ash had lost again, but managed to defeat her Grapploct.

 

[Kurolegacy]

With how Journeys has gone as far as the PWC, I’d love for there to be a rival period.

 

[pokepal_123]

With how Journeys has gone as far as the PWC, I’d love for there to be a rival period.

Bea is supposed to be the main rival apparently.

 

[Kurolegacy]

Bea is supposed to be the main rival apparently.

She might be a recurring character, especially since Ash still needs to actually beat her at some point, but we don’t know if she counts as an actual rival just yet especially when the anime loves to use that rhetoric with characters that never really become important.

 

[Emmy]

but we don’t know if she counts as an actual rival just yet

So sayeth the higher ups. Of course you're welcome to ignore them for now since merely saying it IRL is one thing but actually doing it within the show is something else entirely.

 

[Lightning Flame Blast]

I think more important than a jerk for a rival is a rival that opposes Ash’s methods and ideals. Considering how laid back and casual Ash is being about what’s pretty much the epitome of his goal, a well written mingle of Bea and Trip might be interesting: a trainer who isn’t necessarily rude or demeaning, but who’s obsessed with rising to the top to the point of pretty much only training to rise up the ranks but missing out on the fun part.

I think it would be interesting to see Ash actually get pushed into focusing on training harder and in more diverse ways to compete with said rival, while his methods make the other trainer realize they’re overworking and need to lay back a bit to find themselves.

 

[KrspaceT]

I think more important than a jerk for a rival is a rival that opposes Ash’s methods and ideals. Considering how laid back and casual Ash is being about what’s pretty much the epitome of his goal, a well written mingle of Bea and Trip might be interesting: a trainer who isn’t necessarily rude or demeaning, but who’s obsessed with rising to the top to the point of pretty much only training to rise up the ranks but missing out on the fun part.

I think it would be interesting to see Ash actually get pushed into focusing on training harder and in more diverse ways to compete with said rival, while his methods make the other trainer realize they’re overworking and need to lay back a bit to find themselves.

What of mine own take of a Ash foil/opposite who sees Ash's friendship and bonds with others as his weakness: AKA 'if you didn't have to coddle Goh all the time you'd be at my rank. Other people hold you and your Pokemon back'.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

What of mine own take of a Ash foil/opposite who sees Ash's friendship and bonds with others as his weakness: AKA 'if you didn't have to coddle Goh all the time you'd be at my rank. Other people hold you and your Pokemon back'.

They already did it once though... if they made a copy of Paul it’ll come off as cheap.

 

[Islander Princess]

I don't think it would hurt. Journeys is missing something (perhaps several things) but some kind of tension/stakes is definitely a major one. Yes, Ash has the PWC, but he hasn't had much of a challenge yet thus far outside of Bea, and the losing streak that led to was kind of played off as a joke, which was annoying. Goh and Ash get along pretty well, which is fine, but not getting to see the other side of the coin kind of makes the series feel lopsided to one tone.

I'm perfectly happy with Bea as a rival (I've always wanted Ash to have a female rival, after all) but she and Ash have ended up on relatively friendly terms as well, so more of the same. Bede would've been a great option for a more grating rival. He's smug and arrogant, which is basically the polar opposite of Ash. Any time Ash has had a rival with whom he clashed (i.e. Gary and Paul) it led to really nice character development and growth for him. Right now, Ash just feels stagnant, because he's not really being challenged in battle and he's just buddy-buddy with everyone we've seen thus far.

I often criticize XY for feeling too edgy, but there's a happy medium. Journeys just feels too much like fluff right about now. I think a good, tough rival for Ash could definitely help make things more interesting.

 

[R1ke]

Of all people I actually think Hop could be a great rival for Ash if they reworked him. He shares a goal with Ash, has similar personality traits and a large roster of available pokemon. Although he missed out on all his DD development, he can still have a compelling arc in the PWC. I would put him in super class and actually establish him as a competent trainer, as he has constantly studied Leon's matches and I can see him progressing well in the PWC. For his team, I'll give him Inteleon as his starter, then his corviknight, snorlax, dubwool, sandaconda (evolved from that Silicobra he had) and cramorant from the games. Keep in mind, this team will be like Paul/Bea in the sense that he'll constantly rotate these pokemon in his matches against Ash. Also I'd introduce him on the Isle of Armour to explain his absence from Galar so far, and it makes sense he'd go there to train anyway if he's striving to be the strongest trainer (hell he could even raise a Kubfu, having it function like Paul's Elekid, but that's besides the point right now).

Imo, it'd be interesting that instead of Ash being the one who keeps struggling and doubting himself as a trainer whenever he faces his rival, it'd be the other way around. Ash is already striving to be better because of Bea, and they could really explore the other side of the spectrum here. Because like Bea once said 'Leon is every trainer's goal' but there's only so many spots available in master class to battle him. Most people who set out to beat him will fail, and I feel this perfectly ties in his Hop's development in the games. Dare I say it, but a friendly rival can actually work here, as he'd be someone we'd also want to root for. He wouldn't be a jerk or resentful, but the conflict here can arise from two friends who simultaneously want each other to achieve their dreams, but only one person can due to the nature of it. With the show's strong emphasis on following your dreams and whatnot, having someone actually give up on one dream (beating Leon) to pursue another (being Sonia's assistant) and find fulfilment through that would be really heartwarming to see to be honest. There's always someone better than you, and having Ash be the better one would feel refreshing in this instance (because he's a great trainer by this series).

 

[jbmasta]

If a rival for the Journeys series maybe tapped into a social class or social elitism thing that could be interesting. Trip in Best Wishes kinda had this since he thought Kanto was a bit backward, referring to it as the "boonies" but he was too much trying recapture Paul lightning in a bottle. This would support the UK inspiration for Galar, where there is class disparity such as in the education field (public school vs Eton for example). That could even be the basis for the character arc of the rival, learning there's more than social class to judge a person by.

 

[Beatsy Ray]

Ash was already vindicated in his training methods by the end of DP, so I don't think another rival meant to make him question that would work without blatantly regressing his character. However a tough rival in general would be very welcome. I miss the days of DP when Ash trained nearly every episode and spent time developing new strategies ON SCREEN whenever he faced a road block.

 

[jbmasta]

Ash was already vindicated in his training methods by the end of DP, so I don't think another rival meant to make him question that would work without blatantly regressing his character. However a tough rival in general would be very welcome. I miss the days of DP when Ash trained nearly every episode and spent time developing new strategies ON SCREEN whenever he faced a road block.

You could also say Ash got vindication when Paul started using techniques Ash developed like Counter-Shield.