Writers' Workshop General Chat Thread

[Beth Pavell]

I have an ambivalent attitude towards Daenerys. I think the way she's written is more complex than you'd think, given how her fans - and the series, frankly, depicts her. I recently finished re-reading A Dance With Dragons, and this time round I found her really annoying. In her own way she's just as arrogant and selfish (And hypocritical, come to think of it) as all the other highborn characters of Westeros, except seasoned with an annoying moral smugness.

I think a lot of what I like and don't like about the Essos story has to do with the dragons. I don't much like dragons anyway - they're a huge fantasy cliché - but I like the way the story has panned out using them (In this case, being more of a liability for Daenerys than an asset). The events of A Dance With Dragons shows the flipside to them which kind of puts the lie to Daenerys' constant attempts to equate them with being her actual children.

Oh, and dragons drinking human breast milk is bloody stupid

 

[Dorothy]

I don't much like dragons anyway - they're a huge fantasy cliché

I don't think that's in and of itself a bad thing, although I would say there has been a great deal of stagnation in authors utilizing dragons in interesting and innovative ways, which is definitely not good for them since it makes them eventually seem boring and typical.

 

[Kyuuketsuki]

I have a question: who's gonna be in charge of the Directory?

 

[AceTrainer14]

harryheart is in charge of the Directory, always has been, but he is currently having computer difficulties and there are some issues around the editing of the that post but we are hoping to sort it out.

And whilst we do have a thread for a book related discussion (and you are more than welcome to create a designated thread for discussing the books, as The Written Word is for books discussion as well), I will say that Viserys had far too much of a mean streak and a level of derangedness that would not have worked with the books. All the characters are meant to have good and bad elements, and they do their actions based on their own moral codes and such; Viserys was too unstable to have carried his own perspective chapters as he did not really have a good streak/moral under code to balance things out (Cersei is a mega bitch, but her actions can be justified if you choose to justify them by her love for her children).

I think the Essos storyline would be more compelling if the storyline hadn't been dragged out. I think the problem is that Daenrys has spent a number of books not actually doing anything, and I do not think swapping her for Viserys would have made it anymore interesting and perhaps would have made it much more aggrivating to read. I enjoy Daenrys, I find her a conflicted soul, and I think finding her merely annoying is not looking at her character deeply enough.

 

[Kyuuketsuki]

harryheart is in charge of the Directory, always has been, but he is currently having computer difficulties and there are some issues around the editing of the that post but we are hoping to sort it out.

Oops… Sorry for the confusion... >.<

 

[Beth Pavell]

harryheart is in charge of the Directory, always has been, but he is currently having computer difficulties and there are some issues around the editing of the that post but we are hoping to sort it out.

And whilst we do have a thread for a book related discussion (and you are more than welcome to create a designated thread for discussing the books, as The Written Word is for books discussion as well), I will say that Viserys had far too much of a mean streak and a level of derangedness that would not have worked with the books. All the characters are meant to have good and bad elements, and they do their actions based on their own moral codes and such; Viserys was too unstable to have carried his own perspective chapters as he did not really have a good streak/moral under code to balance things out (Cersei is a mega bitch, but her actions can be justified if you choose to justify them by her love for her children).

I think the Essos storyline would be more compelling if the storyline hadn't been dragged out. I think the problem is that Daenrys has spent a number of books not actually doing anything, and I do not think swapping her for Viserys would have made it anymore interesting and perhaps would have made it much more aggrivating to read. I enjoy Daenrys, I find her a conflicted soul, and I think finding her merely annoying is not looking at her character deeply enough.

It's the complexities of Daenerys that I find annoying. I think you can look no further than her apparently philanthropic tendencies and see a heroine - I see her as something of a hypocrite and self-indulgent. Her rampage against slavers sounds all well and dandy, but (And I haven't read A Game of Thrones in a while but I'm pretty sure this holds up) she had no problem with her big savage husband taking slaves to finance her intended conquest of Westeros. She makes a big deal about having counsellors, whose advice she nearly always ignores. She treats her dragons like they're actual children, but when they prove themselves to be monsters she quickly forgets about it. She insists on personally giving short-term aid to anyone suffering whether she can follow up on it the next day or not, because she likes being called "mother". She laughs off her dragons trying to burn an envoy and then wonders why no-one will trust her.

Daenerys is a good character and I like her story because she can't really be called a heroine and she isn't getting her own way. What I argue is that in her own way she's as arrogant and entitled as, say, Stannis

 

[AceTrainer14]

It's the complexities of Daenerys that I find annoying. I think you can look no further than her apparently philanthropic tendencies and see a heroine - I see her as something of a hypocrite and self-indulgent. Her rampage against slavers sounds all well and dandy, but (And I haven't read A Game of Thrones in a while but I'm pretty sure this holds up) she had no problem with her big savage husband taking slaves to finance her intended conquest of Westeros. She makes a big deal about having counsellors, whose advice she nearly always ignores. She treats her dragons like they're actual children, but when they prove themselves to be monsters she quickly forgets about it. She insists on personally giving short-term aid to anyone suffering whether she can follow up on it the next day or not, because she likes being called "mother". She laughs off her dragons trying to burn an envoy and then wonders why no-one will trust her.

Daenerys is a good character and I like her story because she can't really be called a heroine and she isn't getting her own way. What I argue is that in her own way she's as arrogant and entitled as, say, Stannis

I would not say she is entitled, as she is staying in Essos to learn to rule before going back to conquer Westeros. I think all the flaws you mention actually make her a good character, as a flawed princess is better than many of the say Disney ones we have gotten in the past. I think she does generally listen to her counselors and the thing about her taking slaves, I can only remember her taking the women as slaves in order to stop them from being raped, which is obviously a good thing. And I think many charitable people are like that, helping others because they enjoy it but not actually capable of following through.

And she is nowhere as annoying and whiny as Stannis is, though I do kind of like Stannis and pity him a bit. But yes, I do think we should create a specialist thread for this so we are not filling the chat with spoilers

 

[Misfit Angel]

All the characters are meant to have good and bad elements, and they do their actions based on their own moral codes and such; Viserys was too unstable to have carried his own perspective chapters as he did not really have a good streak/moral under code to balance things out (Cersei is a mega bitch, but her actions can be justified if you choose to justify them by her love for her children).

While it's true that all of the characters have their moral justifications for what they do (even Joffrey! Peace through power!), that is exactly why Viserys being a crazed loon with no moral fiber would have been more interesting. He would have been an outlier in the series.

That said, I agree somewhat. Nothing could save the Essos storyline in my eyes. It's just so... boring.

Edit: Darn, I just saw the part about taking this to a new thread. My bad.

 

[Lugion]

Stannis kicks ass and the Battle of Meereen will be epic when Dany arrives on Drogon's back to burn the Yunkai'i to the ground.

Right?

EDIT: Dammit.

To stay on topic, it's hard writing stuff.

 

[Legacy]

Do I see a GoT fanfic in @Caitlin 's future?

I agree reed with you though. I thought the story would have been awesome had that happened! Not that it wasn't already awesome. I love those books.

 

[Caitlin]

I had thought about it, writing a sort of "mirror universe Game of Thrones", where one little thing goes differently and the story vastly turns away from what's happened in the books towards something new. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to dedicate to that, nor really enough knowledge of the series as a whole to justify it. A lot of fanfiction is trash because it ignores the basic tenets of the franchise it works with, and I like to try to have a level of quality that comes with a high level of knowledge. I don't want to fall into that hole.

The best I likely could do would be to draft up a timeline of major events, and let whoever stumbles on it work the finer details out with their imagination.

So, uhh, anyways moving along with general chat, what's everyone up to in the writing/reading world? I unfortunately haven't had the time to work on much.

 

[Dorothy]

So, uhh, anyways moving along with general chat, what's everyone up to in the writing/reading world? I unfortunately haven't had the time to work on much.

I'm currently on chapter five of my book, and am also working on maps and other resources for me to use in writing it.

 

[AceTrainer14]

Assignments preventing me from really carrying on with anything, which is annoying as I was hoping to have the next Galactic up by the next Awards, and I am hoping to finish Dawn of Darkness well before the end of the year but that looks unlikely as well now... :/

 

[Beth Pavell]

Well, I'm reading a history of India right now. The book is perhaps a bit academic for my taste, but histories of India that don't just focus on British occupation are hard to come by, so I guess it'll do.

Writing wise I'm still slogging through Chapter Nine. This is proving a difficult one to balance as far as my protagonists interactions are concerned. And two important battles ... ugh, writing battles is hard

 

[Kantomasta]

So Ive decided im going to bring my old fic The Third Starter back to life! Im only keeping the plot though, Im redoing just about everything else. Hopefully gonna have a first chapter up in ~two weeks and then be on a schedule from there!

And on an unrelated note-Has anyone read Level 26 by the guy that made CSI? I just read the whole book today and i think imma have nightmares

 

[Legacy]

I have been talking with some local publishers about a non-PKMN project I've been working on. I don't think I'm good enough to get them to work with me, but it's a goal to work towards anyway.

How cool is it that I have made my biggest strides as a writer by writing fanfics? I came to this forum and specifically the Workshop five years ago as a kid who had the drive to be a writer but not the skills. With the help of the amazing people, past and present, of the Workshop, I have been able to improve greatly from what I was. I gained real confidence and real understanding of grammar and how to construct a good story by visiting a Pokemon-themed Internet forum. That is crazy and fantastic.

Obviously, I still have a lot of room for improvement. I'm no where near the point to where I could claim to be anything special as a writer, but I still enjoy it. I'm just glad I stumbled upon this forum all those years ago.

Everyone who is a regular amongst the Workshop is a talented writer. I have read the majority of the fics posted on the site and the quality of work makes me proud to be a part of this site. Awesome.

To all of those who get discouraged because of lack of reviews or criticism you receive, I advise that you keep going no matter what. Continue to write and rewrite and tweak your story until it is the best it can be. This work and effort you out in DOES pay off, and in real life too, not just the fanfiction realm. Gaining real world skills simply by being apart of this cool family we have at the Workshop is amazing to me.

And to everyone, think about how pumped you are whenever you receive a review. It's a cool feeling to know all the hard work you put into your fic goes noticed. It's exciting to know someone is reading what you are writing. Nothing like it. Remember this feeling and pass it on whenever you have a spare hour or two.

I promise you that you will enjoy yourself. I realize we get bogged down with work, school and our own writing projects, but we're int his together. Let's try to help each other out when we can.

Sorry to get all preachy, but I love this place and am passionate about everyone here. I really think its awesome that we've all found each other.

 

[Beth Pavell]

And to everyone, think about how pumped you are whenever you receive a review. It's a cool feeling to know all the hard work you put into your fic goes noticed. It's exciting to know someone is reading what you are writing. Nothing like it. Remember this feeling and pass it on whenever you have a spare hour or two.

I do agree with that. Sometimes I wonder what the Views count actually means. I suspect that a lot of it is clicks from people who then quickly go "Eh, not for me." I do wonder how many recurring readers I have who never comment.

Speaking of writing, I think it's finally time to admit that my 4,000 word limit for Chapter Nine was never realistic. Gym Battles take rather more words than I expected ... and after cutting as much chaff as I can find there's no way all the necessary character development will fit in alongside the battles in 4,000 words

 

[Flaze]

Well they could be regular readers that aren't members, the views count for guests too.

 

[Legacy]

Flaze, I take it you watched the HIMYM finale?

 

[ShinyFlareon]

Well, NoA didn't want me. Not that that application was much more than a pipe dream to begin with...even though I actually met all of the qualifications, I still pinned way too many hopes on that position. I've been here nearly a year and I'm still unemployed...oh well. I've put in for another position with another game company and I've learned not to expect anything out of it. I'll probably be applying for a position at Ryuu's job within the month. I may end up hating it, but right now I hate being unemployed even more.