Writers' Workshop General Chat Thread

[MisheardWhisper]

If they drop the mystical bond requirement of Mega Evolution, though, the only thing stopping literally everybody from having Megas is the availability of stones, and that just feels lamer. In the anime, Team Rocket is constantly trying to steal Mega Stones and Pokemon because they want to rule the world with them or whatever, but they never succeed, in part because they obviously don't have that bond with stolen Pokemon. The anime actually treats Korrina and Lucario's story waaaaay better than the games, by the by: she actually has to struggle to control Lucario after it Mega Evolves for the first time, and it's not until they've redefined their bond and truly understood what it means that they can Mega Evolve safely.

On another note, I promise you we're all on the same page with the Delta Episode. The Zinnia thing in the hideout was a particularly egregious example, but the whole thing was a bit poorly executed. Emerald was my first game, so I didn't appreciate the clumsy retconning of the Rayquaza plotline just to shoehorn Mega Evolution into it.

So yeah, Mega Evolution could have done with a bit more thought. I honestly wouldn't disagree with anybody on that point, it does feel a bit half-baked. The only point I'm trying to make is . . . well, what could be done with it? Without making it needlessly complicated or adding more arbitrary checkboxes that I still feel would only cheapen the whole 'mystical bond' aspect they're going for . . . there's nothing much GF could have done. They wrote themselves into a corner, really, by taking a concept that has been intangible and implicit, though important, through all their games (the bond between Trainer and Pokemon) and trying to give it a mechanical application.

 

[AetherX]

Eh, Zinnia doesn't really seem the type to go out and buy an Escape Rope, she seems the type who'd rely on Draconid techniques even when an easier and more convinient alternative was laying at her feet.

I hear Draconids can spin around so fast that they fly into the sky without an escape rope.

 

[Flaze]

I finally did it you guys!

 

[MisheardWhisper]

I hear Draconids can spin around so fast that they fly into the sky without an escape rope.

I hear she does car commercials . . . in the Kanto region.

 

[Serverus Snope]

I would like to see stories where the enemy team is attempting to artificially induce Mega Evolution, considering the chaos in Hoenn and Kalos probably brought these powered up Pokémon to their attention. I also have an idea for a new type of Mega Evolution, "Shadow Evolution", which expands on the Shadow Pokémon from Orre and Ferrum regions (I say they're related), with Shadow Lugia being a prototypical Shadow Evolution that still needed fine tuning.

Huh, reminds me of something that happened in a Pokemon Tabletop Adventures campaign I participated in. The trainer's Keystone was damaged, so the Mega Evolution was corrupted and it turned the Blastoise into Shadow Mega Blastoise. It went on a rampage that caused not just our party, but the entire world to be banned from Floccesy Ranch.

 

[MisheardWhisper]

Actually...

I make no apologies for this.

 

[Beth Pavell]

I just won't learn my lesson, will I? Here's a summary that made me think to give a story a go:

Dawn is a 18-year-old new Pokémon trainer who finally leaves her home Twinleaf Town for a Pokemon journey of her own. Her motives for her journey are completely different from most others', though - while most other trainers aim to become the very best of trainers, Dawn is seeking different kinds of experiences

Hm, different motivations, I thought. That could be interesting, I thought. Maybe this won't have the usual melodrama, I thought. What I should have thought was to read between the lines and translate the innuendo.

Looks like I'll be reading stories here as usual

 

[AceTrainer14]

Dawn is a 18-year-old new Pokémon trainer who finally leaves her home Twinleaf Town for a Pokemon journey of her own. Her motives for her journey are completely different from most others', though - while most other trainers aim to become the very best of trainers, Dawn is seeking different kinds of experiences

I went to search with this was, and thankfully I was not disappointed by the unsubtle smut I found. I am so glad that we very rarely get that here. Though there are some particularly choice lines I think we could use a bit more of...

 

[MisheardWhisper]

'18-year-old Dawn' didn't ring any alarm bells? XD

On a more serious note, I often consider writing smut fic/original stuff just to see if I can. Haven't been able to make the leap yet though.

 

[Beth Pavell]

I went to search with this was, and thankfully I was not disappointed by the unsubtle smut I found. I am so glad that we very rarely get that here. Though there are some particularly choice lines I think we could use a bit more of...

I hope it's fairly well known that I'm not prissy about smutty fics - what really got on my nerves was how mean-spirited that one managed to be in the space of a short chapter.

I think I had hoped that the "18-year-old" detail would mean a story with a more grown-up character, possibly one capable of thinking about her future beyond the next Gym Badge

 

[Instrutilus]

Beth has a point. 18-year-old could be an interesting perspective to view the Pokémon world from, considering we generally get it through the eyes of babes. Generally because I'm convinced that the Unova Trainers are 16. Regardless, children generally don't think about certain things because they've not encountered them personally. 18-year-olds are about to get smacked in the face with reality and all it's costs.

Perhaps Dawn goes on her journey because she can't afford the rent on a home and does it to earn some money, while not requiring her to live in a single area thus doesn't have to waste money on rent. We could see her learn to balance her funds, as that's what got her into the mess in the first place: her lack of thinking about her spending because she could always get something from mum, who she declared she wouldn't need to go back to for funds after an argument. We can see that stubbornness cost her, but she learns and grows from it...

...damn it, someone write that!

 

[AceTrainer14]

It is interesting how few stories really deal with adult/older trainers. I'll admit that it has never interested me terribly much with Pokemon fanfic, but I would have thought that more people would do it. I've only got one idea for an adult-driven story in the GVerse: most adults in that world are either depressed, manipulative, sadistic, alcoholics or a mix of the four. What that says about me idk.

I was about to post this when the thread updated - I must say, I do like that idea, Instrut. I do like the idea of a character semi-abandoning their family in order to go train Pokemon as part of a breakdown: perhaps we should combine the two

 

[Beth Pavell]

I hope I can be forgiven for the implicit advertising on this, but it is relevant - this is partly what I'm trying to do with The Long Walk, insofar as I've got main characters in their lower twenties concerned with what they actually want to do with their life; one taking the equivalent of the year out to decide, and the other pushed to it by dismal hometown job prospects (Using pokémon as an opportunity to earn some money is something I've touched on a little).

I mean, those two motivations are still relatively young in nature. What I'm aiming for is something with a bit more maturity and substance - and, actually, a bit of optimism, because I remember being twenty-one, and the option of a year pokémon training would have been very attractive back then.

I don't think the more happy-go-lucky teenage journey is a bad thing, so much as there's a lot of missed opportunities in the journeys, I think.

 

[Instrutilus]

I don't think the more happy-go-lucky teenage journey is a bad thing, so much as there's a lot of missed opportunities in the journeys, I think.

Hey, who says it's happy-go-lucky. She's out of house and home, without money in a world where there's creatures that can stun and drain your body dry for food. And that's the f**king butterflies. No one suspects the butterfly...

Regardless, their world is full of monsters, literally. Even in the cities, you have Grimers and Muks to consider. Ever wonder why you don't see homeless people sleeping on the streets in the series?

Basically, when you get down to it, Pokémon is a terrifying world and I would not want to be trying to rough it without adequate preparation.

 

[Beth Pavell]

Hmm ... I do have a potential answer to the "Nightmare world pokémon" scenario, but it's quite a long one and I'm not sure how well received that one will be

 

[Instrutilus]

Hmm ... I do have a potential answer to the "Nightmare world pokémon" scenario, but it's quite a long one and I'm not sure how well received that one will be

Go for it. We're mature individuals whom might have opposing views on the matter or share similar views. Opinions are opinions, so long as they're informed I have no qualm.

 

[PanicAttack]

Beth has a point. 18-year-old could be an interesting perspective to view the Pokémon wo rld from, considering we generally get it through the eyes of babes. Generally because I'm convinced that the Unova Trainers are 16. Regardless, children generally don't think about certain things because they've not encountered them personally. 18-year-olds are about to get smacked in the face with reality and all it's costs.

Yeah, if only someone was working on a story about 18-year-olds that wasn't smut. I can't think of absolutely anyone who's writing such a thing though.

In all seriousness, this has given me a few things to consider putting into (or at least addressing in) The Power of Three. Perhaps a reconstruction of the Pokémon universe is in order...

 

[Beth Pavell]

Ok. So how can I break this down succinctly

The - as it were - "Nightmare world" scenario is a legitimate interpretation that can be backed up by evidence from the canon, but it's not the necessary interpretation. It all boils down to some key unanswered questions.

The first thing is that we don't definitively know how aggressive pokémon naturally are. Aggression in animals is determined by very stark evolutionary reasons - animals are never aggressive for no reason. That's because fighting of any kind is inherently risky, and so the potential rewards for that aggression have to outweigh the risk. Take predation as the most relevant example. There's a reason why predators won't battle ferociously to subdue prey. Relatively small injuries can have big consequences - they can adversely affect the animal's ability to hunt, (An extreme example is that of a cheetah. If a cheetah so much as sprains an ankle it can easily starve to death), become infected, and make the predator itself more vulnerable to predation.

Now applying this to pokémon: it's reasonable to say that injury isn't so serious a prospect to a pokémon, since across the canon it's clear that a pokémon can recover more easily from much more serious injuries. However, we don't actually know how well pokémon heal of their own accord, without the assistance of human medicine (Discounting healing moves, which most pokémon don't have access to). So actually, we don't know how much a wild pokémon is usually willing to risk in battle with another. And that being the case, we don't really know how aggressive a pokémon is likely to be towards a human.

Whether you can really use the games as evidence for this is an awkward prospect. Most pokémon aren't too shy about attacking trainers and battle to unconsciousness in the games, but do we really want to take game evidence literally? By the same token we might also conclude that most people stand on the spot night and day.

In any case, I would suggest that humans are a riskier prospect than they might first appear. Humans might come armed with all sorts of weapons, including their own pokémon, which being tamed, are more likely to fight harder for longer. Consider this - from the perspective of a wild pokémon, attacking one human might quickly mean being outnumbered six to one by other pokémon, any number of which might be better-fed, stronger, and fitter. Multiply that over thousands of years of human history and wild pokémon may well have learned to avoid humans where possible. There are other advantages humans probably have over pokémon, in fact the same ones that we have over other animals - the ability to communicate and co-operate in large groups, to invent varied tools to solve problems, and the ability to actively teach these skills to the next generation.

Even with all that being said, I think it would also be logical to assume that people in a world filled with pokémon would need to be a lot more aware of the ecology of the world around them. And, consequently, would probably be a lot more open to leaving land undeveloped as pokémon habitat.

So concluding, I maintain that the above makes logical sense and is acceptably consistent with the canon. However, I don't mean to argue that this ^^^ scenario is necessarily a counter-argument to "Nightmare world", so much as a different intepretation

 

[Instrutilus]

That's fair, though I would argue that Humans in our world are in a similar situation. If a lion starts attacking Humans, those Humans will then gather a hunting party and destroy it. My concept, however, focuses on the one, the person who could be attacked by a rogue and killed without a second thought on the attacking party. Not to mention Humans, depending on the personality, can be rather lead-footed while exploring new territory. In a world where the bees have drills for arms, they might not get a second chance at being cautious.

Basically, I agree with your assessment that, at large, Humans are a force to be reckoned with, but that doesn't mean the individual Human is. Your argument posits that the Human is an active Trainer, whereas the games show civilians who keep them as pets, focus on contests or just plain don't raise them. That means there is a good chunk of Humans that would be defenceless or more open to attack from a Wildmon if out in the open. Plus, we are not sure how long Trainers have been a thing in the Pokémon world: while there's legends and AZ as proof that Pokémon and Humans were close and wars did crop up that involved Pokémon fighting, we can't really say if those Pokémon were individually trained and merely conscripted into the war effort or if they were a country's military power sent forth and trained by a single host. That means there hasn't been thousands of years for Wildmon to become weary of the Humans, especially since the games imply Pokéballs are a relatively recent device through Kurt and Drayden, Drayden outright saying:

"When I was little, Poké Balls didn't exist yet. Sometimes Pokémon would run away from awful Trainers who didn't try to understand them."

With Pokéballs only coming in within the last half the century, give or take, that means Humans didn't have the 6-on-1 advantage until recent, or if they did it wasn't a surprise for the opposing party and they were probably very skilled to keep those 6 trained creatures in line without one simply deciding to blow them away.

Really, it just depends on how you seek to portray Pokémon. Both are valid viewpoints and can be supported due to the openness of the games. target

 

[Beth Pavell]

Your argument posits that the Human is an active Trainer, whereas the games show civilians who keep them as pets, focus on contests or just plain don't raise them.

Well, yes and no. Yes, you're right that not every human is going to have six reasonably well-trained pokémon on hand. My point is that from the wild pokémon's point of view, they might. There's no way to tell until it leaps out of the bushes, and therein lies the risk. It could be that in the past more people routinely owned and trained pokémon, and give the explanation that the modern world allows for fewer people to carry and train pokémon - coming back round to co-operation, humans can divide up their skills and labour so some people could specialise in coralling dangerous pokémon.

But this:

With Pokéballs only coming in within the last half the century, give or take, that means Humans didn't have the 6-on-1 advantage until recent, or if they did it wasn't a surprise for the opposing party and they were probably very skilled to keep those 6 trained creatures in line without one simply deciding to blow them away.

Raises a good point. The various versions of the canon are very inconsistent on exactly when Poké Balls were invented and how widespread they were. There's that quote from Drayden, but Kurt's craft is implied to be a traditional one. I wish that Bulbapedia actually sourced information in the articles ... but anyway, I agree, the Poké Ball changes everything