Ereshkigal
Far too mouthy for my own good.
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Black and white actually go well together. They got the color coordination down pat just by being basic.
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Writers' Workshop General Chat Thread
- Thread starter Gama
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In other news, 20 years of the anime today. I think I might watch one of the movies to celebrate.
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Black and white may match, but it's unoriginal, I'd say.
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I liked it, actually. But I wouldn't say it was the best...
Ereshkigal
Far too mouthy for my own good.
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Mmm... Comparatively, of the more recent movies, yes. It's the worst. However, for an anime movie in general, it's still very good. It's not up to the standards of, say, Ghost in the Shell... but it's still above average.
Misfit Angel
Normal is an illusion
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Speaking of Pokemon movies, the most recent one I watched was the Temple of the Sea one. Having looked it up, that was the 9th of 19... I am so out of touch. That said, that one was definitely solid from what I remember, even if it has been over ten years since I saw it.
I just made myself sad.
I just made myself sad.
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I watched Hoopa anyway, and yeah, that was not a good movie. It could have been about half an hour shorter and nothing would have changed. Plus it felt oddly racist with its portrayal of this 'Middle East'-ish city.
And if you want to feel really sad, Ash and Pikachu have been on our screens for 20 years now
I think that's the only Hoenn one I've seen, and it seemed mostly good. The problem with a lot of the latter ones is they keep bringing weird magic and stuff to it. I know it's a fantasy world but its just a weird mix since the anime is pretty low-key most of the time,
And if you want to feel really sad, Ash and Pikachu have been on our screens for 20 years now
SuperTrainStationH
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I thought the Hoopa movie was probably the worst one I've seen, but you might as well see it for yourself and make up your own mind, you might even love it.
What I find weird is how as they've started bringing the Pokemon series to regions influenced by various places inspired by our world, but then make the movies be based on wherever they want, yet those places are still supposed to be taking place in whatever region the anime is set in, leading to weird things like the Unova region and New Tork City from the Genesect both existing in the same general area, or in the Hoopa movie, a place explicitly based on the United Arab Emirates existing in a region that's themed around France.
It was easier for them to get away with, like Crown City being an explicit Amsterdam analog but being located in the Pokemon World's version of Hokkaido, because at the time of the Zoroark movie and the pre-Unova stuff, the series was still restricted to being set in a fantasy version of Japan.
Anyway, I REALLY can't wait to see what comes next, because as much as the feature films have been my main relationship with the Pokemon anime, for being one-off stories with no bearing on the events of the TV series, there's no reason for these movies to be as conservative and formulaic as they have been, as there's been basically just a handful of elements from the first five or six movies they've been remixing in various forms to make most of the rest of the movies that they've seldom deviated from.
Below I'm going to spoil at least 80% of the plot points you'll find in a Pokemon movie in roughly the order they're likely to appear:
What I find weird is how as they've started bringing the Pokemon series to regions influenced by various places inspired by our world, but then make the movies be based on wherever they want, yet those places are still supposed to be taking place in whatever region the anime is set in, leading to weird things like the Unova region and New Tork City from the Genesect both existing in the same general area, or in the Hoopa movie, a place explicitly based on the United Arab Emirates existing in a region that's themed around France.
It was easier for them to get away with, like Crown City being an explicit Amsterdam analog but being located in the Pokemon World's version of Hokkaido, because at the time of the Zoroark movie and the pre-Unova stuff, the series was still restricted to being set in a fantasy version of Japan.
Anyway, I REALLY can't wait to see what comes next, because as much as the feature films have been my main relationship with the Pokemon anime, for being one-off stories with no bearing on the events of the TV series, there's no reason for these movies to be as conservative and formulaic as they have been, as there's been basically just a handful of elements from the first five or six movies they've been remixing in various forms to make most of the rest of the movies that they've seldom deviated from.
Below I'm going to spoil at least 80% of the plot points you'll find in a Pokemon movie in roughly the order they're likely to appear:
A narrator will tell viewers about the world of Pokémon and how awesome and incredible it is, and that one of those trainers is 10 year old Ash Ketchum from Pallet Town and how him and Pikachu and his two latest human tagalongs save the world on a weekly basis in their quest to be Pokémon Masters.
Then they’ll be some kind of prolog sequence involving legendary Pokémon and/or the film’s villain, followed by the title screen.
Ash,Misty, and Brock whatever companion characters are currently in the show will wander into an extremely scenic town or city based on a real life location that’s visually referenced but usually not made explicit without a search on Bulbapedia. They’ll be tons of scenery porn of Interesting City because the animation team is proud of all the research they did and want to show it off.
Interesting City generally has canals, tramways, or both. If it has neither, Interesting City will have cobblestone streets, and Ash will be guaranteed to ride on the back of a legendary Pokémon at least once.
The entire notion of Interesting City can be subverted if the movie is a "quest" like Movie 6, or Movie 17, or to a lesser extent Movie 2.
A conspicuous Little Girl will usually be seen with her Mother in a background shot somewhere early on, but in Movie 18 they showed up later on in what could be considered an action scene.
Ash and Co meet at lest one Movie Companion Character (MCC) who is a local of Interesting City and will tell them that they arrived just in time for the annual Interesting City Carnival/Tournament/Parade/Gala/Event which is held in honor of a Legendary Pokémon that all the locals respect and revere, even though it hasn’t actually appeared since ancient times.
70% chance we’ll get some kind of scene of Ash and Co riding a train/boat/flying boat/ zeppelin/monorail/people mover/conveyor belt early on.
Even better chance they’ll be an extremely well choreographed and fun to watch battle between Ash and some local Trainer who challenges him to a match, a match so well animated that the actual location they’re in will be the backdrop rather than wooshing colored lines accompanied by stock footage. This battle will take place with a remixed version of the latest TV series opening theme as its BGM.
After the battle Ash and Co and the MCC(s) hang out around town and enjoy themselves for a while, as Jessie, James, and Meowth run around like idiots just barely out of sight hatching some dumb plan to steal the town’s treasure or capture its patron legendary Pokémon, which is a running gag throughout the film that goes nowhere. Or they'll just lurk around in trenchcoats to serve as an easter egg. (Movie 15)
Some sort of crisis happens where the Villain, or the Antagonist Legendary attacks the town, likely either the result of, or cause of, Ash befriending an adorable Friend Legendary that may or may not be capable of speaking via telepathy, in which caseBrock or his current equivalent will explain to the viewers that the Pokémon is speaking via telepathy and that this is highly unusual, not counting the countless other times Ash has encountered telepathic Pokémon in the movies alone.
If the Friend Legendary isn’t telepathic, the Antagonist Legendary could fill this role instead.
The crisis either takes the form of an immediate and urgent emergency involving a villain, or a passive sort of mystery Ash and Co must solve to save the day before the town is destroyed. Also, in recent movies we have the protags helping a Friend Legendary prove themselves or complete a quest against an Antagonist Legendary.
Either way we’ll get lots of scenes of Ash cuddling and paling around with the Friend Legendary way more than he does Pikachu.
It’s likely that as some point or another the protags become locked, trapped, or imprisoned either inside the city/castle/area the movie takes place, or are locked OUT of somewhere and they need to find a way to sneak in.
The MCC(s) will tell an in depth legend concerning at least one of the Legendaries involved, and Ash will somehow participate in re-enacting a ritual described in legend, or resolve the legend, whose outcome was left open ended.
Team Rocket narrowly avoids getting eaten/crushed/drowned or whatever in little comic relief moments regardless of whatever else happens, or goofs around accidentally ignoring extremely valuable treasures they could have easily made off with. They may get temporarily "killed" but they'll be fine due to time travel or a miracle or some nonsense.
Ash gets to do awesome stuff like flying on the backs of legendary Pokémon, riding balloons, escaping a collapsing building, being in space without a spacesuit (yeah, that happened once) and other stuff.
If the story has a huaman villain, Ash will try to tell them off for being a meanie, only for the villain(s) to reply that they’re acting for the greater good, or that he only cares about himself, and that Ash should buzz off.
70% chance the human villain will have an airship, an actual ship, a mech, or a flying castle.
100% chance said vehicle will be destroyed by Legendary Pokémon at some point. If not, it will be relinquished from the villain, or the villain will turn good and promise not to be naughty with it anymore.
The “climax” of the film nearly always involves an attempt to make viewers think that a legendary Pokémon has been killed in the process of saving the day, but don’t worry, the legendary Pokémon ALWAYS ends up making a miraculous recovery, except for that one time.
If the main antagonist was a legendary Pokémon, it was either misunderstood, or misunderstood the situation and acted in what he thought was a helpful way, or was just a raw force of nature unable to understand it was causing trouble, He’ll be forgiven. (Movie 1, Movie 3, Movie 10, Movie 17)
If there is a villain was being hard evil, he’ll either see the light and be forgiven (Movie 1, Movie 6) or much more likely arrested during the end credits (Movie 5, Movie 13) . Or they might just be left alone with no one really caring enough to bother confronting him in person. (Movie 2)
If not, the villain was probably just a misunderstood extremist who took his plan to help the world too far and has learned his lesson, everyone forgives him. (Movie 14)
Ash and Co say goodbye to the MCC(s) and the Legendary Pokémon, making an empty promise to return to visit them someday. Team Rocket gets some sort of minor payoff, like a picnic lunch, and they briefly discuss how life is okay sometimes. 70% chance they get the last dialog in the film before the credits roll.
If the Interesting City Annual Event/Festival/Thing hasn’t actually happened yet, it will happen during the closing credits where we get some benign pop song about being friends and overcoming adversity. Here we get more scenery porn of the town, as well as little clips resolving minor plot points, or even referencing characters from the anime who didn’t appear in the film.
If you were lead to think that the Legendary Pokémon really did die during the film, we’ll get a clip during the credits confirming that he actually made it after all. Except that one time I mentioned earlier.
Then they’ll be some kind of prolog sequence involving legendary Pokémon and/or the film’s villain, followed by the title screen.
Ash,
Interesting City generally has canals, tramways, or both. If it has neither, Interesting City will have cobblestone streets, and Ash will be guaranteed to ride on the back of a legendary Pokémon at least once.
The entire notion of Interesting City can be subverted if the movie is a "quest" like Movie 6, or Movie 17, or to a lesser extent Movie 2.
A conspicuous Little Girl will usually be seen with her Mother in a background shot somewhere early on, but in Movie 18 they showed up later on in what could be considered an action scene.
Ash and Co meet at lest one Movie Companion Character (MCC) who is a local of Interesting City and will tell them that they arrived just in time for the annual Interesting City Carnival/Tournament/Parade/Gala/Event which is held in honor of a Legendary Pokémon that all the locals respect and revere, even though it hasn’t actually appeared since ancient times.
70% chance we’ll get some kind of scene of Ash and Co riding a train/boat/flying boat/ zeppelin/monorail/people mover/conveyor belt early on.
Even better chance they’ll be an extremely well choreographed and fun to watch battle between Ash and some local Trainer who challenges him to a match, a match so well animated that the actual location they’re in will be the backdrop rather than wooshing colored lines accompanied by stock footage. This battle will take place with a remixed version of the latest TV series opening theme as its BGM.
After the battle Ash and Co and the MCC(s) hang out around town and enjoy themselves for a while, as Jessie, James, and Meowth run around like idiots just barely out of sight hatching some dumb plan to steal the town’s treasure or capture its patron legendary Pokémon, which is a running gag throughout the film that goes nowhere. Or they'll just lurk around in trenchcoats to serve as an easter egg. (Movie 15)
Some sort of crisis happens where the Villain, or the Antagonist Legendary attacks the town, likely either the result of, or cause of, Ash befriending an adorable Friend Legendary that may or may not be capable of speaking via telepathy, in which case
If the Friend Legendary isn’t telepathic, the Antagonist Legendary could fill this role instead.
The crisis either takes the form of an immediate and urgent emergency involving a villain, or a passive sort of mystery Ash and Co must solve to save the day before the town is destroyed. Also, in recent movies we have the protags helping a Friend Legendary prove themselves or complete a quest against an Antagonist Legendary.
Either way we’ll get lots of scenes of Ash cuddling and paling around with the Friend Legendary way more than he does Pikachu.
It’s likely that as some point or another the protags become locked, trapped, or imprisoned either inside the city/castle/area the movie takes place, or are locked OUT of somewhere and they need to find a way to sneak in.
The MCC(s) will tell an in depth legend concerning at least one of the Legendaries involved, and Ash will somehow participate in re-enacting a ritual described in legend, or resolve the legend, whose outcome was left open ended.
Team Rocket narrowly avoids getting eaten/crushed/drowned or whatever in little comic relief moments regardless of whatever else happens, or goofs around accidentally ignoring extremely valuable treasures they could have easily made off with. They may get temporarily "killed" but they'll be fine due to time travel or a miracle or some nonsense.
Ash gets to do awesome stuff like flying on the backs of legendary Pokémon, riding balloons, escaping a collapsing building, being in space without a spacesuit (yeah, that happened once) and other stuff.
If the story has a huaman villain, Ash will try to tell them off for being a meanie, only for the villain(s) to reply that they’re acting for the greater good, or that he only cares about himself, and that Ash should buzz off.
70% chance the human villain will have an airship, an actual ship, a mech, or a flying castle.
100% chance said vehicle will be destroyed by Legendary Pokémon at some point. If not, it will be relinquished from the villain, or the villain will turn good and promise not to be naughty with it anymore.
The “climax” of the film nearly always involves an attempt to make viewers think that a legendary Pokémon has been killed in the process of saving the day, but don’t worry, the legendary Pokémon ALWAYS ends up making a miraculous recovery, except for that one time.
If the main antagonist was a legendary Pokémon, it was either misunderstood, or misunderstood the situation and acted in what he thought was a helpful way, or was just a raw force of nature unable to understand it was causing trouble, He’ll be forgiven. (Movie 1, Movie 3, Movie 10, Movie 17)
If there is a villain was being hard evil, he’ll either see the light and be forgiven (Movie 1, Movie 6) or much more likely arrested during the end credits (Movie 5, Movie 13) . Or they might just be left alone with no one really caring enough to bother confronting him in person. (Movie 2)
If not, the villain was probably just a misunderstood extremist who took his plan to help the world too far and has learned his lesson, everyone forgives him. (Movie 14)
Ash and Co say goodbye to the MCC(s) and the Legendary Pokémon, making an empty promise to return to visit them someday. Team Rocket gets some sort of minor payoff, like a picnic lunch, and they briefly discuss how life is okay sometimes. 70% chance they get the last dialog in the film before the credits roll.
If the Interesting City Annual Event/Festival/Thing hasn’t actually happened yet, it will happen during the closing credits where we get some benign pop song about being friends and overcoming adversity. Here we get more scenery porn of the town, as well as little clips resolving minor plot points, or even referencing characters from the anime who didn’t appear in the film.
If you were lead to think that the Legendary Pokémon really did die during the film, we’ll get a clip during the credits confirming that he actually made it after all. Except that one time I mentioned earlier.
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@SuperTrainStationH I think that formula might be common in serial-based anime movies, because while I never finished watching Fullmetal Alchemist: The Sacred Star of Milos (whose title is half-Japanese, half-English on My Anime List, for some reason), it definitely gave me Pokémon movie vibes.
Are the World of Pokémon openings really necessary? I don't know anyone who was introduced to the franchise through the movies. Except for maybe Kyurem vs. Edward Elric, where we get to see those guys who were in the anime for five seconds.
Are the World of Pokémon openings really necessary? I don't know anyone who was introduced to the franchise through the movies. Except for maybe Kyurem vs. Edward Elric, where we get to see those guys who were in the anime for five seconds.
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This grand trial of mine has, uh, taken a strange, awkward turn. Somebody come try to set the insanity straight, if you can.
SuperTrainStationH
East Unova Resident
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I can reason that on November 12, 1999, when the first movie came out in the US, lots of parents who were getting roped into actually watching this stuff for the first time as they accompanied their kids to the theater would have deeply appreciated it.
Though ironically, the the first two movies didn't have that. I think the first to have that intro was the third one.
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@SuperTrainStationH That was savage but also entirely accurate. I hadn't really noticed before how there is literally always some sort of festival or event happening.
Do people have a favourite movie from the series? Mine would be the second. It feels the most thought out and the majority of what happens is necessary for the plot.
Do people have a favourite movie from the series? Mine would be the second. It feels the most thought out and the majority of what happens is necessary for the plot.
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Oh wow, that hat boy trapesing through the house with his pals has been doing this for 20 years? He's clearly more of a threat than we thought...
Oh, and be nice to the grunts..or else!
Oh, and be nice to the grunts..or else!
Ereshkigal
Far too mouthy for my own good.
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He's also clearly suffering some kind of horrible gland disorder.
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My favorite movie is Pokémon Heroes, followed by The Sky Warrior, The Legend Awakened, and the first.
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I vaguely remember catching Heroes, Lucario, and Temple of the Sea on TV, definitely remember seeing a trailer for Sky Warrior, and have even better memories of seeing Darkrai and Arceus. I kind of have nostalgia for the latter...
Oh, and I saw Kyurem vs. Edward Elric on Netflix.
Oh, and I saw Kyurem vs. Edward Elric on Netflix.
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I watched the second movie again today just as a reminder of how mostly great it is <3
Anyone do any good pranks for April Fools?
Anyone do any good pranks for April Fools?
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@AceTrainer14 It's no longer April Fool's in my timezone.
In other news, I have made no progress on my Six Pokémon Challenge whatsoever. Whelp. I do like Beth's idea of a oneshot about someone wailing about how misunderstood they are while destroying a village from the clichés thread, mind.
In other news, I have made no progress on my Six Pokémon Challenge whatsoever. Whelp. I do like Beth's idea of a oneshot about someone wailing about how misunderstood they are while destroying a village from the clichés thread, mind.
SuperTrainStationH
East Unova Resident
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@AceTrainer14 I was so "brutal" yet I could only compile that list because I enjoy the movies enough to have watched them so many times.
As for my favorite, I guess I'll say Zoroark, Master of Illusions.
While I like all the Pokemon movies enough to at least watch them and enjoy doing so, I feel Movie 13 with its comfy settings and images and a core setup that isn't particularly rooted in Pokemon lore (as opposed to say, the first movie whose appeal was based on the viewer knowing who Mewtwo and Mew were) may be one of the closest to being a movie I can objectively say may even flirt with being a subjectively good, stand alone kid's movie in general in terms of the narrative, though in the current climate Movie 13's concepts are very highly political in nature, which is I guess why Movie 13 itself became the backdrop for my overly political and overly long fanfic I need to finish some time.
Along these lines I say perhaps Movie 2 also goes a long way in making a stand alone structure that can be easily understood without the surrounding context of the Pokemon world, even though that movie did a poor job of establishing the antagonist, to the point where his name is never even uttered or mentioned on-screen, which could have been resolved with an additional one second's worth of dialog.
I'll also mention Genesect and the Legend Awakened here, for reasons that totally contradict why I like Movie 13 so much. Movie 16 honestly feels to me like the animation team just wanted to make a short subject depicting life in the Pokemon World's version of Manhattan, and capitalizing on Japan's apparent fascination with Central Park, and nothing more than that.
That being said, as a kid living in NYC in the late 90's during Pokemania, this very concept was something that constantly occupied my imagination, so seeing this in movie form was fantastic.
Pokemon helping engineers who are working in a trench dug in the street, the little kids running down the street with their pet Eevee as though it were a dog, the image of Central Park full of Pokemon scurrying around, these are all daydreams I've had in my heart since I was eleven or twelve years old, so seeing them actually being explored by the people who make actual official Pokemon material close to 20 years later was a huge treat.
That being said, Movie 16 was also a huge wasted opportunity. Frankly this movie needed to be about N. If N was in Ash's party of friends during this movie, it would have given a character who has hangups about the relationships between humans and Pokemon a chance to grow throughout the narrative, as they interact both with the Genesect who were resurrected and modified by humans, and Mewtwo who was created by cruel humans, but came to peace with the surrounding world in spite of that.
Team Plasma could have even been secondary antagonists, but I don't know if that didn't happen due to the movie creator's refusal to stray from my previously highlighted list of tropes, or due to baggage regarding the unaired Rocket Vs. Plasma episodes and the Sendai disaster, or both.
The fact that N appears during the credits is like a cruel joke, and the made up, nondescript evil scientists that created this movie's Mewtwo somehow get more explanation that Team Plasma themselves, who are actual properly established players in this lore who are directly responsible for the existence of the movie's title characters, but in spite of this, get a total of literally three seconds of screen time and virtually serve as an easter egg.
What I'm left with for Movie 16 is basically fantastic scenery porn of the Pokemon World's version of Manhattan, but very, very little else to be excited for. At least for me.
Gosh let me stop before this ends up becoming an in-depth top 19 list.
As for my favorite, I guess I'll say Zoroark, Master of Illusions.
While I like all the Pokemon movies enough to at least watch them and enjoy doing so, I feel Movie 13 with its comfy settings and images and a core setup that isn't particularly rooted in Pokemon lore (as opposed to say, the first movie whose appeal was based on the viewer knowing who Mewtwo and Mew were) may be one of the closest to being a movie I can objectively say may even flirt with being a subjectively good, stand alone kid's movie in general in terms of the narrative, though in the current climate Movie 13's concepts are very highly political in nature, which is I guess why Movie 13 itself became the backdrop for my overly political and overly long fanfic I need to finish some time.
Along these lines I say perhaps Movie 2 also goes a long way in making a stand alone structure that can be easily understood without the surrounding context of the Pokemon world, even though that movie did a poor job of establishing the antagonist, to the point where his name is never even uttered or mentioned on-screen, which could have been resolved with an additional one second's worth of dialog.
I'll also mention Genesect and the Legend Awakened here, for reasons that totally contradict why I like Movie 13 so much. Movie 16 honestly feels to me like the animation team just wanted to make a short subject depicting life in the Pokemon World's version of Manhattan, and capitalizing on Japan's apparent fascination with Central Park, and nothing more than that.
That being said, as a kid living in NYC in the late 90's during Pokemania, this very concept was something that constantly occupied my imagination, so seeing this in movie form was fantastic.
Pokemon helping engineers who are working in a trench dug in the street, the little kids running down the street with their pet Eevee as though it were a dog, the image of Central Park full of Pokemon scurrying around, these are all daydreams I've had in my heart since I was eleven or twelve years old, so seeing them actually being explored by the people who make actual official Pokemon material close to 20 years later was a huge treat.
That being said, Movie 16 was also a huge wasted opportunity. Frankly this movie needed to be about N. If N was in Ash's party of friends during this movie, it would have given a character who has hangups about the relationships between humans and Pokemon a chance to grow throughout the narrative, as they interact both with the Genesect who were resurrected and modified by humans, and Mewtwo who was created by cruel humans, but came to peace with the surrounding world in spite of that.
Team Plasma could have even been secondary antagonists, but I don't know if that didn't happen due to the movie creator's refusal to stray from my previously highlighted list of tropes, or due to baggage regarding the unaired Rocket Vs. Plasma episodes and the Sendai disaster, or both.
The fact that N appears during the credits is like a cruel joke, and the made up, nondescript evil scientists that created this movie's Mewtwo somehow get more explanation that Team Plasma themselves, who are actual properly established players in this lore who are directly responsible for the existence of the movie's title characters, but in spite of this, get a total of literally three seconds of screen time and virtually serve as an easter egg.
What I'm left with for Movie 16 is basically fantastic scenery porn of the Pokemon World's version of Manhattan, but very, very little else to be excited for. At least for me.
Gosh let me stop before this ends up becoming an in-depth top 19 list.
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