Writers' Workshop General Chat Thread

[Persephone]

When I did sprite and basic graphic design work I just messed around in MS Paint or GIMP because other things cost money. You'd be surprised what you can do with a decent understanding of GIMP. Not the most user friendly program in the world and not the best for creating really visually compelling art, but it will do for logos, sprites and other non-painting things.

 

[Nitro Indigo]

You can make great things with any technology if you put in the effort.

 

[Misfit Angel]

You can make great things with any technology if you put in the effort.

So you're telling me my plans of weaponizing the archimedes screw to hollow out the earth aren't just folly and that I can really do it?

 

[Nitro Indigo]

What I meant is that you can draw good things on MS Paint if you try.

 

[Beth Pavell]

So you're telling me my plans of weaponizing the archimedes screw to hollow out the earth aren't just folly and that I can really do it?

VOLCANOES! A THOUSAND SCREW-POWERED VOLCANOES!! ALL NATIONS KNEEL BEFORE PRESCOTT!!! SUBMIT OR BEAR WITNESS TO MY PYROCLASTIC FURY!!!!

 

[canisaries]

you can draw amazing things with a mouse, but it will require more adapting and it also crosses off some techniques almost entirely (since mouses don't have pressure sensitivity).

but just because you draw with one or the other, it doesn't mean you ONLY know how to draw with those. i've always drawn my digital things with a stylus, but i once tried out using nothing but my mouse. this was the result:

Spoiler

it's nothing to really brag with, but it doesn't just look like some 8-year-old's MS paint doodle either, does it.

technique is only one element of art, just like grammar is only one part of a written story. knowing how to use your tools to produce something does not automatically make you good. you need to know where the light and shadows need to go, how sharp they should be, what colors you should use, what the subject you're trying to portray actually looks like (aka anatomy and such), etc.

and even with theory and technique, you cannot be an artist before you have the final component: creativity. you gotta have passion in your work, you need to want to express something. you may be able to replicate a photograph perfectly, but if you can't add your own spin to it, you're just a glorified printer.

if i sound like i came into this discussion prepared, it's because i once wrote an essay where "what is (good) art" was a central theme. i thought about it a lot and put much effort into creating this evaluation system, and then the teacher gave me like a B minus. the salt still hasn't gone away

 

[TRNatalie]

the teacher gave me like a B minus. the salt still hasn't gone away

That's sad.(In the sympathetic way!!!!!)

 

[Nitro Indigo]

That awkward feeling when you see lots of people complaining about a fanbase being terrible, but don't see the fanbase being terrible, so you end up feeling sorry for the fanbase.

 

[canisaries]

hope that fanbase isn't cuphead. i've seen a lot of people fear that it'll end up having obnoxious fans, but no one bring forth any events that have actually happened that would suggest that.

in almost every case, anyway, people usually mean the small minority of terrible fans, but those are so loud that they overshadow the silent more sensible majority.

 

[Gengarzilla]

in almost every case, anyway, people usually mean the small minority of terrible fans, but those are so loud that they overshadow the silent more sensible majority.

Oh yeah, I hate when that happens in any fandom. It's a pain to see.

 

[Nitro Indigo]

I'm referring to when people get mad at people thinking Rick & Morty is deep. Oh no. Someone sees something in a cartoon that you don't. How very dare they.

Though that reminds me, chuggaaconroy once said that Paper Mario: Sticker Star is his least favourite video game. In one episode of Partners in Time, he says that he wishes he could see what people who like Sticker Star saw in it. He's such a nice guy.

 

[canisaries]

people don't get mad at people who think r&m is deep. people get mad at the people who think that r&m is so deep that it makes them smarter and everyone who doesn't like the show is an idiot and "just doesn't get it".

see: the infamous copypasta. note how incredibly obnoxious the tone it's written in is. that's what people are primarily making fun of, at least the people with good judgement.

this whole thing echoes the phenomenon where (some) people who watched the big bang theory started to think they were super smart and cool for liking a "nerd show". the difference here is that based on what i've heard, r&m isn't the death of comedy. just personal opinio pls do not get the mad

 

[Beth Pavell]

It's not unlike the favourite response to a negative review of, say, an arthouse film. Just accuse the reviewer of "not understanding" the work - in other words, call them stupid. Except in this case this particular brand of arrogance is allegedly ok since it's defending something tangentially to do with science.

(Bonus points awarded for confusing philosophy with hard science and then condescending to the idiots who don't get it)

 

[Persephone]

Rick and Morty fandom is terrible because it has attracted the sort of people who feel the need to assert how smart and worthy they are by status signals. This means that, like other "intelligence status symbols," you end up with a lot of people who are very sensitive to being challenged because they see an attack on the thing that makes them smart as an attack on them personally.

Played out with the "video games are art" crowd, Big Bang Theory, the Rationalism community, the Sanders/Ron Paul diehards, etc. Incidentally, all of those things with toxic "intellectual" fandoms later became havens for Nazis recruiting people with egos bigger than their actual intellect.

 

[Nitro Indigo]

Okay. I don't see the bad parts of fandoms very often, thankfully.
This reminds me of the backlash against Mr. Enter's 12oz Mouse review.

In other news, no-one ever talks about Pokémon Ranger. I bring this up because I'll be comparing Shadows of Almia to Super Mystery Dungeon in a video, saying the former did the school thing better.

 

[Gengarzilla]

I didn't really mind Super's school setting that much, I just wished it didn't last as long as it did. It felt as though a good third of the game was focused on that routine. At least Shadows of Almia wrapped up their school arc quicker, even if I did prefer Guardian Signs by a hair.

 

[Beth Pavell]

I quite liked Guardian Signs. I think I mostly played it for Manaphy, but it wasn't an onerous play-through

 

[Nitro Indigo]

Shadows of Almia's school is directly linked to what you'll be doing for the rest of the game. Super's school tries give a feeling of an innocent beginning, but ends up being too long.

Shadows also doesn't feel the need to sugarcoat its darkness with cheesy friendship ideals. Even back when I hated it, the villain's backstory certainly left an impression on me. My memory of that game isn't the greatest, though.

 

[canisaries]

...y'all just made me realize i never even finished guardian signs. or at least i don't think i did. i remember getting stuck on some part where you had to catch a drifloon for someone but i could only ever find them in the sky and you couldn't keep the mon you caught in the sky?

with modern internet, the solution would probably be a breeze to find out, but going back and relearning all the mechanics of the game would be a harder task by now. and i should probably focus on finishing breath of the wild first. or just forget about that for now, since mario odyssey is coming up, and it looks absolutely amazing - i loved sm64 and sunshine, absolutely certain i'll love this one too.

 

[Nitro Indigo]

I've only played Shadows of Almia, but I want to get Guardian Signs. Shadows of Almia was the kind of game I thought I hated more than I did, since I managed to beat it as a kid. The main reason I hated it was because I was bad at video games. Nowadays, that game is Children of Mana, because I found it incredibly tedious, yet played through it one and a half times. I don't own it any more, though, or my original copy of Shadows of Almia.

Here's something I recently realised, that I might put into my PMD analysis video: in video games, you're allowed to get away with storytelling devices that would be considered bad writing in any other medium. A common example is having a passive plank of wood for a protagonist, who represents the player. These characters lack agency on their own, but are given their agency by the player. Pokémon Mystery Dungeon protagonists aren't complete blank slates, because they internally monologue a lot, but aren't interesting enough to stand as characters in their own right.