Writers' Workshop General Chat Thread

[Welkamo]

I'm gonna have to write lyrics to a knock off pop song sung by e-boy!Cyrus or eboy!Saturn.

"Babe the only emotion I wanna feel is love for you" ok I'll stop

 

[Greninjaman]

Which is easier to work with in fanfics and stories in general: First person or third person?

 

[Jewel the Quaxly]

Which is easier to work with in fanfics and stories in general: First person or third person?

From what I've seen, I would say third person. Especially if it's the type of story where there is multiple subplots. Third person makes it easier to follow multiple characters at once, but first person can only focus on one person's point of view.

Some stories try this "first person a chapter" approach, but it can easily tire and the constant POV switching might make it harder to keep track of, whereas a singular character telling the story from first person view makes it easier to track.

Of course, just because you tell a story from first person through the eyes of one character doesn't mean that you can't tell subplots about other characters. It's just a little harder because you can't make it feel contrived as to how much your protagonist sees or knows and you have to remember that the protagonist who's eyes the story is being viewed from might not always understand what's going on. First person would remain in the protagonists head, so you'd have to vividly imagine how that character specifically sees the scene if you write in first person.

This, however, can be very hard to do at times, which is why you would mostly see stories with third person P.O.V. There's also different types of third person P.O.V, like Third Person Omniscient, which actually makes third person to be more complicated to write. And then you have first person omniscience, which is a whole other layer of complexity that I'm not even going to touch.

 

[Greninjaman]

-Snip-

For a story I did a long time ago, I did first person, and it revolved entirely around the protagonist. I do agree that the first person view really works best when the story only focuses on one character. It can work if done well (same with third person). Look at Polar Express for example. The entire story is seen from the point of view of the main protagonist. Also, if only wanting to focus on one particular character is something that you want to do, first person might work for you. Honestly, I might try to write my story in the first person view. I think it would be easier for me. I had a ton of fun writing that story that I did. It was called "The Legend of the Gold Diamond" (I know, not the best title; I was like in my teens when I wrote it).

 

[Welkamo]

I never really write in first person. Maybe it's personal preference, maybe there's a psychological reason, idk.

Also does anyone here publish fanfic on other sites in addition to Bulbagarden? I've been interested in eventually making an AO3 account, but I know nothing about the site.

 

[Jewel the Quaxly]

Also does anyone here publish fanfic on other sites in addition to Bulbagarden? I've been interested in eventually making an AO3 account, but I know nothing about the site.

I publish on Fanfiction.net. The site is okay for the most part. A few glitches and bugs, but those are easily fixed by having patience.

 

[Greninjaman]

I publish on Fanfiction.net. The site is okay for the most part. A few glitches and bugs, but those are easily fixed by having patience.

I do have an account there, but it was a tad overwhelming for me. I prefer simple to complicated I guess.

 

[Welkamo]

I'm not really a fan of Fanfiction.net's layout. It feels old. However, it was where I read some of my first Pokémon fanfiction, and it helped me get over my nervousness when reading fanfiction about ships I like.

 

[Jewel the Quaxly]

I'm not really a fan of Fanfiction.net's layout. It feels old.

Yeah, that's pretty accurate. Everything feels slow on that site, in all honesty.

 

[Beth Pavell]

I don't know about easier, but I prefer third-person. I have come across authors who find it easier to write in first-person.

I publish mostly on the forums here. In some ways they are clunkier than a dedicated fanfiction site, but it's much easier to get a sense of community on a forum - there's no easy way of responding to reviews on fanfiction.net, for example. You can use PMs, of course, but I like being able to have the option of public conversations with readers.

I do cross-post some of my stuff on fanfiction.net - there's no getting away from the fact that it's the biggest audience for most fandoms. I don't like how it's basically unmoderated. I also think the limited formatting is somewhat overzealous. Tried to get into AO3, but I frankly hate the freewheeling tagging system. It seems to be considered an advantage by most users, but I just find it confusing and a chore to navigate

 

[Rockapheller]

does anyone here publish fanfic on other sites in addition to Bulbagarden?

I created a blog on Blogger, and I post my fanfic there. The best part about it is that you can have a theme that fits you the best since it is up to you what kind of design you will have, and besides, you can either make your blog completely private, limited access or public, whatever fits you the best.

 

[InfiniteBakuphoon]

Also does anyone here publish fanfic on other sites in addition to Bulbagarden?

I cross-post my stories regularly on two other sites besides this one: Fanficton.net and Serebii. I post on the latter mainly based on nostalgia, it being my first real exposure to fanfiction and the Pokémon fandom in general. The fanfiction section isn't nearly as bustling as it was fifteen or so years ago, though, but that's all I'll say about that, lest I brush too hard against the rules here.

As far as FF.net goes, it is somewhat difficult in that it takes at least two or three steps to actually do anything. Basically, if you want to post something, you have to copy everything to a "document", make sure that the formatting isn't messed up (which it usually hasn't been for me, so long as I copy from the Bulbagarden version), and then post. But once you get the hang of things (particularly with keeping track of all of the documents and such), it's not so bad. And of course, you get the benefit of having full analytics available to you, including how many people have read your fic, when they've read it, and even where they've read it (if you actually care about all of that). Plus, I've found that formatting is actually easier on FF.net than it is here, because all formatting is lost whenever you copy anything to Bulbagarden (a very frustrating thing when you have almost 15K words to go through, as I did not too long ago; I'd love to see that fixed one of these days).

As far as design goes, I actually don't really have a problem with FF.net's relatively old-school approach to that. On the contrary, I actually really like it. Why? Because it seems like nearly every other major site on the internet seems to go for a "Fischer-Price" or "Apple"-like approach to design nowadays, where everything is either obnoxiously simplified compared to earlier web page designs or violates almost every visual and UI design principle you can think of (low contrast, bad organization, etc.) in a ridiculous dedication to form over functionality (or even over basic technical competence in the worst cases, where even the search function isn't guaranteed to work!). In contrast, FF.net is simple, relatively well-organized (on the main page, at least), and has a sensible visual design philosophy: blue bar on top, gray options bar below that, then the stories themselves, and that's it; no extra nonsense needed. The site does have its technical issues, though, as its back end apparently isn't quite as simple as its front end (and when things break, they can break hard). But for the most part, I feel that, at least in my book, its 90's heritage actually does count for something worthwhile in this so-called "modern" era of the internet.

Which is easier to work with in fanfics and stories in general: First person or third person?

First person? Third person? Ha, amateurs! You want a real challenge? How about writing in second person!
(Not that I've ever dared to try that myself, and I probably never will, ahaha...)

In all seriousness, though, I almost always just do third person, usually in limited perspective vs. omniscient. Telling a story through the eyes of a single character is something that just really appeals to me for some reason, although I also like switching POVs to provide different perspectives of the same story, or of the world of the story. I used to write almost exclusively in first person in the very far away past, though, perhaps because the protagonists of those stories tended to be extensions (but not quite avatars, if you're wondering) of myself at the time. But this approach quickly fell out of my favor once I got back into writing again much later in life, and I don't expect that I'll be returning to it anytime soon (it's a lot harder to master than one might think).

As for second person... again, it's something that I wouldn't dare try; certainly not just for the heck of it. I think that it's an approach that only really works for certain types of stories, particularly those that really want you to get into the shoes of a subject (almost literally, in this case). And that's especially true if they also happen to be written in present tense, another rather tricky storytelling style. One fic that I believe does both well is Even the Stars by gethsemane342, an AU postscript to the Kalos games revolving around the long-term consequences of the player character's final encounter with Lysandre and the Ultimate Weapon. The story explicitly has a protagonist — in this case, PlayerCharacter!Serena — but as the fic's increasingly depressing events unfold, you get the sense that it's you experiencing these things just as much as it's Serena, certainly more so than it would've been if it were written in either third person or past tense instead. I'd also argue that the sheer novelty of something being in second person and past tense also helps, as it gives the fic a sense of relative uniqueness from the very first line.

 

[Welkamo]

it's much easier to get a sense of community on a forum - there's no easy way of responding to reviews on fanfiction.net, for example. You can use PMs, of course, but I like being able to have the option of public conversations with readers.

That's probably the best part about posting fanfic on a forum—the sense of community. Even if it's not directly on the page of your work, it's nice to be able to even just talk about writing.

I do cross-post some of my stuff on fanfiction.net - there's no getting away from the fact that it's the biggest audience for most fandoms. I don't like how it's basically unmoderated. I also think the limited formatting is somewhat overzealous. Tried to get into AO3, but I frankly hate the freewheeling tagging system. It seems to be considered an advantage by most users, but I just find it confusing and a chore to navigate

Another advantage of posting on a forum—moderators. I like the tagging system of AO3 (makes it easier to find characters, ships, content, etc.), but I understand how it might not be for everyone.

I created a blog on Blogger, and I post my fanfic there. The best part about it is that you can have a theme that fits you the best since it is up to you what kind of design you will have, and besides, you can either make your blog completely private, limited access or public, whatever fits you the best.

Ah, that brings me back to the day when I would post fanfic on Blogger and show it to my English teacher.

As far as FF.net goes, it is somewhat difficult in that it takes at least two or three steps to actually do anything. Basically, if you want to post something, you have to copy everything to a "document", make sure that the formatting isn't messed up (which it usually hasn't been for me, so long as I copy from the Bulbagarden version), and then post. But once you get the hang of things (particularly with keeping track of all of the documents and such), it's not so bad. And of course, you get the benefit of having full analytics available to you, including how many people have read your fic, when they've read it, and even where they've read it (if you actually care about all of that). Plus, I've found that formatting is actually easier on FF.net than it is here, because all formatting is lost whenever you copy anything to Bulbagarden (a very frustrating thing when you have almost 15K words to go through, as I did not too long ago; I'd love to see that fixed one of these days).

As far as design goes, I actually don't really have a problem with FF.net's relatively old-school approach to that. On the contrary, I actually really like it. Why? Because it seems like nearly every other major site on the internet seems to go for a "Fischer-Price" or "Apple"-like approach to design nowadays, where everything is either obnoxiously simplified compared to earlier web page designs or violates almost every visual and UI design principle you can think of (low contrast, bad organization, etc.) in a ridiculous dedication to form over functionality (or even over basic technical competence in the worst cases, where even the search function isn't guaranteed to work!). In contrast, FF.net is simple, relatively well-organized (on the main page, at least), and has a sensible visual design philosophy: blue bar on top, gray options bar below that, then the stories themselves, and that's it; no extra nonsense needed. The site does have its technical issues, though, as its back end apparently isn't quite as simple as its front end (and when things break, they can break hard). But for the most part, I feel that, at least in my book, its 90's heritage actually does count for something worthwhile in this so-called "modern" era of the internet.

Analytics are always nice, and the analytics FF.net shows seems really cool. I agree on the formatting stuff; when I post stuff here, I have to go back and put back the italics and stuff.

It's oddly comforting to know that people still post stuff on FF.net. I don't know why, but it just does.

 

[Welkamo]

You would think that after four or whatever years of being a shipper, I'd know how to write kisses besides "they kissed passionately"

Also does anyone here do the whole "try to write X words in a day" thing.

 

[Phosphene]

You would think that after four or whatever years of being a shipper, I'd know how to write kisses besides "they kissed passionately"

How about "they kissed, but not passionately"?

 

[Welkamo]

How about "they kissed, but not passionately"?

it was passionately

 

[Jewel the Quaxly]

How about "they kissed, but not passionately"?

Hm. You know, that actually reminds me of some writing advice I got once. Don't describe what isn't there, and instead focus on what is. So, if you say they weren't kissing passionately, even if it isn't intentional, the first thing that will pop into the reader's mind is that they were kissing passionately before they have to remind themselves that they weren't.

A better example would be writing, say, "The street had no lights and there was no sun in the sky." The first thing that pops into your mind will be a sun or lights, right, so it works against you rather than for you. Something better would be to say something like, "The street was dark, just as dark as the sky itself." Now, you have that image of the street being dark and the fact that there would be a sun mentioned would never enter your mind.

Not completely related, but I thought I would share this piece of advice.

 

[Welkamo]

Hm. You know, that actually reminds me of some writing advice I got once. Don't describe what isn't there, and instead focus on what is. So, if you say they weren't kissing passionately, even if it isn't intentional, the first thing that will pop into the reader's mind is that they were kissing passionately before they have to remind themselves that they weren't.

A better example would be writing, say, "The street had no lights and there was no sun in the sky." The first thing that pops into your mind will be a sun or lights, right, so it works against you rather than for you. Something better would be to say something like, "The street was dark, just as dark as the sky itself." Now, you have that image of the street being dark and the fact that there would be a sun mentioned would never enter your mind.

Not completely related, but I thought I would share this piece of advice.

Does "unpassionately" work? wait wait wait "It was a dull, boring kiss"

 

[Beth Pavell]

Also does anyone here do the whole "try to write X words in a day" thing.

Not unless I'm on a deadline. I write something every day, but I don't do well with wordcount targets, frankly

 

[Jewel the Quaxly]

Does "unpassionately" work? wait wait wait "It was a dull, boring kiss"

The second one works, lol. But I don't think you would describe a kiss as "dull" or "boring". Just feels like it wouldn't fit..."emotionless", perhaps? Maybe something like, "the kiss felt empty"? Or maybe even "stale"?