Review XY024: The Undersea Castle! Kuzumo and Dramidoro!!

[Piplup]

I wonder if this episode will still be considered Episode #24 or if we will now have to redo all of our numberings?

I don't understand people who count it as ep 24....... like...... why... it didn't air yet, who cares if we know it was supposed to? the ep will now officially have a new placing
At least from ep 51 onwards everyone will number them the same regardless if how they count this specific ep... but really I'll never understand the people who did count it so far
(nothing stopped these two snow eps to officially count where they did despite Charizard seemingly de-evolving all of a sudden, it's a mess, but the official ep order is what it is and fans should stop trying to fix it and cause different numbering systems to confuse everyone)

I can't see the point of airing it. I mean judging by the previews it didn't seem that interesting anyway.

W-what...? you can't see the point of them airing a fully made ready to air episode?... they just delayed its airing due to unfotunate events, why should they absolutely give up airing them later if they can do it? it'd be such a waste... how interesting the ep actually is doesn't matter (with that logic you could say they should've skipped some old boring eps...)

 

[dman_dustin]

I can't see the point of airing it. I mean judging by the previews it didn't seem that interesting anyway.

W-what...? you can't see the point of them airing a fully made ready to air episode?... they just delayed its airing due to unfotunate events, why should they absolutely give up airing them later if they can do it? it'd be such a waste... how interesting the ep actually is doesn't matter (with that logic you could say they should've skipped some old boring eps...)

You're ignoring that this episode was postponed. They didn't have to air it, but they CHOSE to do so, other episodes cannot figure into this because they have to air, because they haven't been postponed. I honestly in this case, just couldn't see the point, considering it isn't vital to the plot of XY, it's just a random throwaway episode, that didn't have to air, because everything that happened for why it was postponed.

It's better than a break, yes, but still I just couldn't see much of a point airing it.

I don't understand people who count it as ep 24....... like...... why... it didn't air yet, who cares if we know it was supposed to? the ep will now officially have a new placing

Because it screws up the entire episode numbering.

It's annoying how something was the 40th episode produced, will now just be Episode 39.

The numbering should be about what was produced NOT when it aired. This maybe the X number episode aired, but it still keep the same numbering as before because produced > aired. But it's not up to me if Bulbapedia wants to change the episode numbers (if they haven't already).

 

[Piplup]

they CHOSE to do so

Why wouldn't they though? As long as it's deemed ok to air it by now, why would they just skip it? You could say the same about that fishing ep in BW... if I remember correct it wasn't really necessary and mostly filler... yet they aired it anyway... it's exactly the filler-ish nature of these eps that makes it easy to change their placement without creating too much of a mess... things that are plot-related like TR VS TP would be harder to randomly fit in

produced > aired.

I guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree about this... if the Skrelp ep is officially placed where it is in both the Japanese and English versions of the anime, then as far as I'm concerned that it's official placing, regardless of wether that was the intended order or not

But it's not up to me if Bulbapedia wants to change the episode numbers (if they haven't already).

Bulbapedia isn't an official source and doesn't really matter anyway... but it is one of the various fan sites that allow themselves to number eps the way they choose rather than stick to the most officially correct numberings, which is bad in my eyes but I'm not gonna try force my opinions on them (and I know even if I did try it just results in endless arguing)

 

[dman_dustin]

Why wouldn't they though? As long as it's deemed ok to air it by now, why would they just skip it? You could say the same about that fishing ep in BW... if I remember correct it wasn't really necessary and mostly filler... yet they aired it anyway... it's exactly the filler-ish nature of these eps that makes it easy to change their placement without creating too much of a mess... things that are plot-related like TR VS TP would be harder to randomly fit in

Well if you remember the Fishing episode was supposed to introduce Bianca being with the group for those few episodes before it changed and had to reanimate the scene, and they decided to air the episode, because there was a scene they used for the Don Battle tournament.

I honestly doubt the same applies here, besides if Pikachu is the only Pokemon to show up in the episode at least primarily from the group, it would make even less sense. Cause that's just another episode without the group's Pokemon, but I suppose they could have reanimated it.

I guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree about this... if the Skrelp ep is officially placed where it is in both the Japanese and English versions of the anime, then as far as I'm concerned that it's official placing, regardless of wether that was the intended order or not

I do it for the listings. If an episode is listed as being the next episode in the timeline, it should have that number. The episode listing shouldn't suffer just because an episode is postponed.

If it had intended to air at some point, it should keep the Episode number listing.

Besides if we go by when it airs, then things could be out of place. I remember ONE tv series in the united states the final season was so jumbled up because it was aired out of order, that it makes trying to watch the season pointless, trying to figure where it takes place

I realize that this doesn't apply in this case, but the same principal remains, if you air episodes out of order, then they chronologically don't make sense. Hence why episode should be listed as they were intended to air, TO avoid timeline issues.

Bulbapedia isn't an official source and doesn't really matter anyway... but it is one of the various fan sites that allow themselves to number eps the way they choose rather than stick to the most officially correct numberings, which is bad in my eyes but I'm not gonna try force my opinions on them (and I know even if I did try it just results in endless arguing)

This is Bulbapedia's forums, that's why I brought it up, I wouldn't have otherwise, the whole discussion was if Bulbapedia was going to list it as something different.

 

[R!ck]

I don't understand people who count it as ep 24....... like...... why... it didn't air yet, who cares if we know it was supposed to? the ep will now officially have a new placing
At least from ep 51 onwards everyone will number them the same regardless if how they count this specific ep... but really I'll never understand the people who did count it so far
(nothing stopped these two snow eps to officially count where they did despite Charizard seemingly de-evolving all of a sudden, it's a mess, but the official ep order is what it is and fans should stop trying to fix it and cause different numbering systems to confuse everyone)

I hope Bulbapedia re-numbers this episode as XY050, it's clear it's not XY024 anymore...

 

[garrison-san]

If you have issues with the content of Bulbapedia, then take it to them directly. Episode discussion threads are not the place to complain about them.

 

[Piplup]

Well if you remember the Fishing episode was supposed to introduce Bianca being with the group for those few episodes before it changed and had to reanimate the scene, and they decided to air the episode, because there was a scene they used for the Don Battle tournament.

So you're saying they aired it due to Don Battle referencing that ep? since they bothered editing this ep it could be easier to edit out the reference and not air this...
I don't know, I'm just trying to say it'd be crazy for them to throw away a ready for air ep if they can actually air it, especially when most of the viewers could easily believe it is taking place right now since there won't be any crazy stuff like Charizard devolving

I do it for the listings. If an episode is listed as being the next episode in the timeline, it should have that number. The episode listing shouldn't suffer just because an episode is postponed.

If it had intended to air at some point, it should keep the Episode number listing.

If you ask me: in eps listing go by the official ep order even if it doesn't make sense, and in the specific ep page's notes you can explain the case (that goes for bulbapedia or any other similar site or anything)

Besides if we go by when it airs, then things could be out of place. I remember ONE tv series in the united states the final season was so jumbled up because it was aired out of order, that it makes trying to watch the season pointless, trying to figure where it takes place

We can't really compare deliberately changing the official placement of an ep for whatever reasons, to a channel messing up and airing eps out of order for no real reason

if you air episodes out of order, then they chronologically don't make sense. Hence why episode should be listed as they were intended to air, TO avoid timeline issues.

In this specific case I doubt we would even notice anything if we didn't know it was supposed to air earlier so it's not that of big deal really regarding the "timeline issues"

 

[Dogasu]

I don't see how airing an already completed episode and giving the overworked animators some much needed breathing room is in any way perplexing.

 

[Piplup]

I watched the ep live and in addition to various references to the shiny Magikarp ep that made it super obvious it should've aired after that, they left in all the mentions of Ash preparing to his next Gym Battle against Grant. This is such a mess....... you'd expect them to do some minimal editing in effort to make this ep fit its new placement, as they did with that BW fishing ep, but no...... a complete mess... I hope the dub will have the sense to alter the dialogue there a bit, at least...
Also, starting from the next ep everyone will finally go back to numbering the eps the same way so that's issue is half solved (half cause it's only valid for the following eps, still forever arguable how to number all the ones aired so far...)

 

[Gabo2oo]

I watched the ep live and in addition to various references to the shiny Magikarp ep that made it super obvious it should've aired after that, they left in all the mentions of Ash preparing to his next Gym Battle against Grant. This is such a mess....... you'd expect them to do some minimal editing in effort to make this ep fit its new placement, as they did with that BW fishing ep, but no...... a complete mess... I hope the dub will have the sense to alter the dialogue there a bit, at least...
Also, starting from the next ep everyone will finally go back to numbering the eps the same way so that's issue is half solved (half cause it's only valid for the following eps, still forever arguable how to number all the ones aired so far...)

I believe that if the episode was not retconned at all like the fishing BW episode, then it's still XY024. Canonically speaking, it still occurred after the shiny Magikarp episode and before the battle against Grant, after all. But I wonder why they just took the lazy path and didn't edit anything; they had much less time to edit BW037, yet they still did it. So what's with this?

Also, speaking about the numbering issues, they will exist forever in this series because there's also the fact that some consider the Mega Evolution specials as part of the regular series episode count. So this problem will continue, just that not as much as before.

 

[R!ck]

This episode was set to air after the Amaura/Aurorus one not the Sniny Magikarp ep which is XY022...

Welp, with Flecthling in there and various references I guess this remains as XY024.

My problem is with the dub, it'll treat it as XY050 or S1750.

 

[radek.tadajewski.7]

Yep. There's no Hawlucha, Luxio, Fletchinder and Pancham in this episode, so I guess this remains as XY024. Too bad they used the V (Volt) remix and Dreadrea instead of regular ending and opening. Oak's Holo Caster wasn't shown and they give Steven's Mega Evolution Journal Mega Gallade. I bet Oak's Holo Caster on DVD will have Diggersby while the Mega Evolution Journals will be exclusive only for TV version.

 

[Gabo2oo]

This episode was set to air after the Amaura/Aurorus one not the Sniny Magikarp ep which is XY022...

That doesn't change that the events of this episode happened after the shiny Magikarp one...

 

[Neo Blaze]

I watched the ep live and in addition to various references to the shiny Magikarp ep that made it super obvious it should've aired after that, they left in all the mentions of Ash preparing to his next Gym Battle against Grant. This is such a mess....... you'd expect them to do some minimal editing in effort to make this ep fit its new placement, as they did with that BW fishing ep, but no...... a complete mess... I hope the dub will have the sense to alter the dialogue there a bit, at least...
Also, starting from the next ep everyone will finally go back to numbering the eps the same way so that's issue is half solved (half cause it's only valid for the following eps, still forever arguable how to number all the ones aired so far...)

I don't see the problem? Like others said this episode will most likely just stay XY024. It's just that it was postponed that it aired out of placement. It will most likely just air in its original placement from now on. I doubt the dub will be very different in this.

So there's no mess really. It would have been a bigger mess if this episode was actually retconned as XY051 (or I should say XY050). Then the numbering would have been screwed up badly.

Still weird how this one isn't retconned but BW037 wasn't. This episode has no significant events so it would have been easier to retcon, apart from mentions of the Golden Magikarp and Muraille Coast (where this episode was originally set to take place and so apparently still takes place). BW037 had Bianca joining the group, who would stay for a few episodes after that (in its original placement).

 

[Piplup]

I'm sure we can expect this ep to keep its new placement for any future airing and releases, including the dub. It officially got a new placement... I just don't get why they treated this differently than the BW fishing ep

 

[Ampharos King]

Editing out Fletchling and replacing it with Fletchinder to make the episode fit into the airing timeline wouldn't have been worth it.

Many viewers in Japan probably already know that this episode was meant to air earlier, since the preview for it originally aired in April, so it doesn't make a difference to them that earlier events (Ash vs. Grant) are mentioned.

 

[Gabo2oo]

Still weird how this one isn't retconned but BW037 wasn't. This episode has no significant events so it would have been easier to retcon, apart from mentions of the Golden Magikarp and Muraille Coast (where this episode was originally set to take place and so apparently still takes place). BW037 had Bianca joining the group, who would stay for a few episodes after that (in its original placement).

I differ. This episode's impact on other episodes is at least just as much as BW037. Just as how Bianca was supposed to join the group for the next episodes in the original BW037, this one had Ash figuring out a good strategy for Froakie to counter Grant's Onix. I even dare to say the latter is way more important than the former, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Piplup]

Editing out Fletchling to becoming Fletchinder to make the episode fit into the airing timeline wouldn't have been worth it.

Did Fletchling even appear in this ep? I thought that no but I can't check it right now... if Fletchling did appear that's even more messed up... but I'm pretty sure it didn't? unless I don't remember some few seconds cameo in the beginning of the ep...

Still weird how this one isn't retconned but BW037 wasn't. This episode has no significant events so it would have been easier to retcon, apart from mentions of the Golden Magikarp and Muraille Coast (where this episode was originally set to take place and so apparently still takes place). BW037 had Bianca joining the group, who would stay for a few episodes after that (in its original placement).

I differ. This episode's impact on other episodes is at least just as much as BW037. Just as how Bianca was supposed to join the group for the next episodes in the original BW037, this one had Ash figuring out a good strategy for Froakie to counter Grant's Onix. I even dare to say the latter is way more important than the former, but that's just my opinion.

Well they did at least rerecord some lines in that fishing ep to make it fit into the current continuity. Why not do the same with this one?

 

[Ampharos King]

Did Fletchling even appear in this ep? I thought that no but I can't check it right now... if Fletchling did appear that's even more messed up... but I'm pretty sure it didn't? unless I don't remember some few seconds cameo in the beginning of the ep...

Fletchling was eating with the main characters' other Pokémon (at the time the episode was made).

Ash mentioned at the beginning of the episode that Fletchling and Froakie continue their Quick Attack and Double Team training to prepare against Grant. In addition, Ash was inspired to create the Draco Meteor and Rock Tomb Climb moves when he saw Froakie jump over the ship parts circling around the whirlpools to reach the submarine.

So there was too much stuff related to the Cyllage Gym Battle embedded in the episode to even bother to rewrite script, change the animation, and record the additional lines, so that the episode fits into a syndication timeline. The costs of streamlining the storyline would have been too great, and most viewers already know that this episode was meant to air earlier so it didn't matter to them.

 

[Piplup]

Fletchling was eating with the main characters' other Pokémon (at the time the episode was made).

Ash mentioned at the beginning of the episode that Fletchling and Froakie continue their Quick Attack and Double Team training to prepare against Grant. In addition, Ash was inspired to create the Draco Meteor and Rock Tomb Climb moves when he saw Froakie jump over the ship parts circling around the whirlpools to reach the submarine.

So there was too much stuff related to the Cyllage Gym Battle embedded in the episode to even bother to rewrite script, change the animation, and record the additional lines, so that the episode fits into a syndication timeline. The costs of streamlining the storyline would have been too great, and most viewers already know that this episode was meant to air earlier so it didn't matter to them.

I guess that's another case of blatantly out of place ep then. When was the last time we had these? the two snow eps way back then? the princess festival and kids day? That's all I think... actually, there's a slightly better yet still odd placing of the Riolu two parter, that the dub (and only the dub, it wasn't the case in Japan) has officially placed between the Crasher Wake two parter..... sighhhhh this show is a mess, but ok.