• Another scrumptious episode of Bulbacast has been uploaded to YouTube. Watch it here. I hope you don't feel desserted after watching this one.
  • Hello all! The forum staff have introduced a new rule set. We've reduced the number of rules, made trick language easier to understand, and have hopefully simplified the rules to make understanding them easier. Please have a read over the new forum rules here.
  • Grookey, Scorbunny or Sobble, which one do you love most? Want to show your support with a cool banner, check out the info here!

PREVIEW: XY052: Ninja Arts Showdown! Gekogashira VS Gamenodes!!

Status
Not open for further replies.

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
4,715
Reaction score
120
Re: Upcoming XY episodes - Barbaracle, Sanpei & Greninja / Froakie's possible evoluti

I'm not sure agree with Sanpei being a rival, especially since it seems more than likely that Sanpei will only ever have Greninja. I mean I could be wrong, but the only thing Sanpei seems to be, is possibly just an extra guide in helping Froakie develop. Perhaps knowing things more about Froakie's issues than Ash.

Edit: There's one hypothetical theory that could happen in which Froakie won't evolve.

Now all the evidence would suggest that Froakie will evolve. The evolution part taking place where Sanpei already has a Greninja, the fact it's Froakie evolving NOT Frogadier, and the Frogadier in the title.

But there's one possibility that I can't discount.

Sanpei's Frogadier could've battled this person's Barbacle (Shiftry Costume Guy), before evolving and there will be a flashback revealing this moment possibly of Frogadier battling Barbacle. And during the present battle Froakie begins to evolve but changes its mind. Staying a Froakie. I can't think of anything noted that would go against that logic. Because the events even though they suggest an evolution, might not be connected. Ash's Froakie DOES seem to evolve, but since we don't the context of this Frogadier vs Barbacle, there's no guarantee it will be Ash's hypothetical Frogadier battling Barbacle, when we don't see an image of Frogadier vs Barbacle suggesting it could be a flashback to an earlier battle with Sanpei's Frogadier before it evolved.

I would like to think whomever created the title, wouldn't pull a, dumb title focusing on Sanpei's Frogadier in a flashback moment, but we have gotten weird titles for episodes before.

But, it's possible.
 
Last edited:

Shadao

Pikachu's Global Adventure
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Messages
1,023
Reaction score
1,928
Re: Upcoming XY episodes - Barbaracle, Sanpei & Greninja / Froakie's possible evoluti

:eek: Can it be? Froakie evolving and breaking the Water Starter Curse? I guess I shouldn't be surprised since Greninja's inclusion to Super Smash Bros all but confirms that Ash's Froakie would evolve at some point. What surprised me is that it's happening much earlier than I expected (thought it was going to be next year), and that Sanpei is returning back. Makes me wonder about the other characters of the day. Will they return as well?
 

Necrozma

Formerly known as Tsu
Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
4,757
Reaction score
2,065
Re: Upcoming XY episodes - Barbaracle, Sanpei & Greninja / Froakie's possible evoluti

I'm not sure agree with Sanpei being a rival, especially since it seems more than likely that Sanpei will only ever have Greninja. I mean I could be wrong, but the only thing Sanpei seems to be, is possibly just an extra guide in helping Froakie develop. Perhaps knowing things more about Froakie's issues than Ash.

Edit: There's one hypothetical theory that could happen in which Froakie won't evolve.

Now all the evidence would suggest that Froakie will evolve. The evolution part taking place where Sanpei already has a Greninja, the fact it's Froakie evolving NOT Frogadier, and the Frogadier in the title.

But there's one possibility that I can't discount.

Sanpei's Frogadier could've battled this person's Barbacle (Shiftry Costume Guy), before evolving and there will be a flashback revealing this moment possibly of Frogadier battling Barbacle. And during the present battle Froakie begins to evolve but changes its mind. Staying a Froakie. I can't think of anything noted that would go against that logic. Because the events even though they suggest an evolution, might not be connected. Ash's Froakie DOES seem to evolve, but since we don't the context of this Frogadier vs Barbacle, there's no guarantee it will be Ash's hypothetical Frogadier battling Barbacle, when we don't see an image of Frogadier vs Barbacle suggesting it could be a flashback to an earlier battle with Sanpei's Frogadier before it evolved.

I would like to think whomever created the title, wouldn't pull a, dumb title focusing on Sanpei's Frogadier in a flashback moment, but we have gotten weird titles for episodes before.

But, it's possible.
We now have a summary.

Dephender said:
Summary:
"Ash and friends reunite with Sanpei and his Greninja. Together, they battle a masked ninja!"

Blurb:
"During the battle, Froakie transforms!?"
Greninja is already Greninja when we first meet Sanpei meaning the Frogadier in the title is Ash's.
 

Silktree

Unown Seer
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
17,667
Reaction score
10,935
Re: Upcoming XY episodes - Barbaracle, Sanpei & Greninja / Froakie's possible evoluti

Greninja is already Greninja when we first meet Sanpei meaning the Frogadier in the title is Ash's.
He's saying that the title could be referencing an extended flashback about Sanpei's Frogadier, meaning that there is a separate double battle in present time where Froakie might end up refusing to evolve. But that kind of thinking is extremely convoluted.
 
Last edited:

FullMoon

Ninja Hugs
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Messages
454
Reaction score
2
If Sanpei becomes a rival, I can see Froakie staying a Frogadier because this anime loves having the pre-evolved form go against the fully evolved and win. If that happens I'm going to be so disappointed, but hey, Greninja!
 

Alola

ᵢₙ ₜₕₑ ₙₐₘₑ ₒf ₜₕₑ ₘₒₒₙ...
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
2,841
Reaction score
2,926
That's cool Froakie is evolving with the accolade of Ash's first water type besides Krabby and everything, but I kind of wanted the Kalos Starter trio to remain in their base forms a little longer...
 

Kyriaki

Steven Stone For Life
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
13,930
Reaction score
3,234
FROAKIE IS EVOLVING

I hope they evolve him all the way to Greninja!
 

Silktree

Unown Seer
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
17,667
Reaction score
10,935
If Sanpei becomes a rival, I can see Froakie staying a Frogadier because this anime loves having the pre-evolved form go against the fully evolved and win. If that happens I'm going to be so disappointed, but hey, Greninja!
If that were the writers' plan, I don't see why they would have Froakie evolve sooner than usual.
 

pokemon is a mistake

Take me away from here...
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Messages
5,611
Reaction score
74
A water-type starter is evolving! Fucking finally. It only took us seventeen years for that to happen.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
4,715
Reaction score
120
Re: Upcoming XY episodes - Barbaracle, Sanpei & Greninja / Froakie's possible evoluti

But that kind of thinking is extremely convoluted.
I like that.

But, I wouldn't put it past the writers. They seem capable of doing things like that

But I'll still keep it with a grain of salt (with Froakie's evolution) until we have further information.

Edit: Looks like the blurb says Froakie transforms, I'm assuming that would mean a permanent change, meaning it will in fact evolve. I hope.
 

JacobYBM

追放されたバカ
Joined
Jun 8, 2004
Messages
427
Reaction score
114
Re: Upcoming XY episodes - Barbaracle, Sanpei & Greninja / Froakie's possible evoluti

But that kind of thinking is extremely convoluted.
I like that.

But, I wouldn't put it past the writers. They seem capable of doing things like that

But I'll still keep it with a grain of salt (with Froakie's evolution) until we have further information.

Edit: Looks like the blurb says Froakie transforms, I'm assuming that would mean a permanent change, meaning it will in fact evolve. I hope.
'The writers' are not the ultimate authority on the series. The freelance writers hired to write scripts answer to the head writer, Tomioka Atsuhiro, who in turn answers to the series director, Yajima Tetsuo, who answers to the chief series director, Yuyama Kunihiko, who in turn answers to the producers of the series, which include GameFreak, TV Toukyou, and MediaNet. It is not correct to lay blame on 'the writers' for decisions that are ultimately based on what is best deemed to be the best marketing decision possible.

That being said, it ought to be noted Tomioka Atsuhiro went out of his way to write the scripts of all of the Hou'en, Kantou, and Shin'ou Contest episodes himself as well as nearly everyone of the Shinji episodes. He has great vision for the series and it is not so whim-based as you depict 'the writers' as being.
 
Last edited:

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
4,715
Reaction score
120
Re: Upcoming XY episodes - Barbaracle, Sanpei & Greninja / Froakie's possible evoluti

But that kind of thinking is extremely convoluted.
I like that.

But, I wouldn't put it past the writers. They seem capable of doing things like that

But I'll still keep it with a grain of salt (with Froakie's evolution) until we have further information.

Edit: Looks like the blurb says Froakie transforms, I'm assuming that would mean a permanent change, meaning it will in fact evolve. I hope.
'The writers' are not the ultimate authority on the series. The freelance writers hired to write scripts answer to the head writer, Tomioka Atsuhiro, who in turn answers to the series director, Yajima Tetsuo, who answers to the chief series director, Yuyama Kunihiko, who in turn answers to the producers of the series, which include GameFreak, TV Toukyou, and MediaNet. It is not correct to lay blame on 'the writers' for decisions that are ultimately based on what is best deemed to be the best marketing decision possible.

That being said, it ought to be noted Tomioka Atsuhiro went out of his way to write the scripts of all of the Hou'en, Kantou, and Shin'ou Contest episodes himself as well as nearly everyone of the Shinji episodes. He has great vision for the series and it is not so whim-based as you depict 'the writers' as being.
I know that the executive producers are the ones in charge.

But keep in mind, that I'm sure the scripts the writers make they have at least SOME creative control. So I can't imagine, that the Executive Producers or even Tomioka, thought "Hey, why don't we make an episode where it seems like Froakie evolves, everything will suggest that it evolves, but in the end it refuses" I mean at best, they could have done an anti-evolution episode, where Froakie doesn't evolve. While the special nuances themselves are done by the writer.

But the actual structure of the writing is done by the writer of the episode. They give the episode the charm, of course they have to make sure their script is indeed approved, likely change but don't think that the writers aren't free from criticism because of the nuances within the script. I can't imagine why ANYONE would ever approve having all those episodes where no one but Pikachu shows up from the main cast (not counting the other walking Pokemon), or why Pikachu gets so much focus. At best Tomioka and the executive producers influence the way the series works. But the specifics go to the writers themselves. I highly doubt the writing is done by hand holding or ghost writing, or some disembodied voice from the executive producers telling the writers exactly what to write. Because in that case they could probably just hire a bunch of random people to write words spoken by the various people.

But of course when I say "writers" I clearly mean the people WHO actually write the show. Don't confuse "writers" as synonymous to the people who write the scripts, sure I know that sounds a little contradictory to what I just said above, but that's the point. Maybe directors would be a better choice word, but the point is, if these writers are just "puppets" as you suggest, then it has to be noted that I'm not referring to them when I say writers, but basically as some call it in reference to other shows the "Powers that be." Writers of the actual show, NOT writers of the specific episode. Remember I said "Writers" only one person as far as I know has ever written the script of an episode. So clearly if I wanted to blame ONE writer for this ONE episode, I would say "Writer" but I don't and I never do even when referring to a specific single episode. Pokemon Anime production is a collective entity and I will refer to them as "Writers" simply because it is the writers who make a show. It might be influenced by people with other "titles" but as far as I'm concerned other titles or not they have to be considered as "writers" for the simple fact they control the layout of a show much like how a writer or an "author" should be considered. Writing isn't just about people pounding out words on a computer or typewriter like infinite monkeys and infinite typewriters. But everything that comes together and comes to fruition as aired has to be considered "writing" at least in my eyes. Because writing is about structure, foundation, while everything else completes it, such as the animation, the voice acting and the music, but everything else has to do with the story as in the "writing."

I'm just saying, if Froakie was never going to evolve at all. THIS EPISODE was not necessary with everything suggesting it evolves. But I've seen this before, everything suggests something only to be something different. Might be a way to HYPE up some stuff, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was "needed" as it is.
 

Necrozma

Formerly known as Tsu
Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
4,757
Reaction score
2,065
Re: Upcoming XY episodes - Barbaracle, Sanpei & Greninja / Froakie's possible evoluti

But I'll still keep it with a grain of salt (with Froakie's evolution) until we have further information.

Edit: Looks like the blurb says Froakie transforms, I'm assuming that would mean a permanent change, meaning it will in fact evolve. I hope.
I don't understand why you still have doubt.

Only other possible alternative than Froakie evolving would be some random trainer appearing with Frogadier and being the focus of the episode which would make no sense given it's clear that this episode is all about Ash and Sanpei vs the other ninja.

It is practically confirmed. There's no need for further information.
 

ArvAl

The Lunatic Is On The Grass
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
2,435
Reaction score
425
About the evolving for Froakie I still don't know what is going to like, but if it isn't it would definitely be anti-climax for all of us just like back in the Bulbasaur's episodes where he refuses to be evolved as an Ivysaur (and i'm still disappointed till now).
 

Necrozma

Formerly known as Tsu
Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
4,757
Reaction score
2,065
About the evolving for Froakie I still don't know what is going to like, but if it isn't it would definitely be anti-climax for all of us just like back in the Bulbasaur's episodes where he refuses to be evolved as an Ivysaur (and i'm still disappointed till now).
Yes, but if Froakie will refuse to evolve, then whose Frogadier is it in the title?

It's not Sanpei's. So it only leaves Ash's Froakie who has begun to evolve.
 

ArvAl

The Lunatic Is On The Grass
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
2,435
Reaction score
425
About the evolving for Froakie I still don't know what is going to like, but if it isn't it would definitely be anti-climax for all of us just like back in the Bulbasaur's episodes where he refuses to be evolved as an Ivysaur (and i'm still disappointed till now).
Yes, but if Froakie will refuse to evolve, then whose Frogadier is it in the title?

It's not Sanpei's. So it only leaves Ash's Froakie who has begun to evolve.
Hmm...it does make sense.
 

Ampharos King

MEGA F'ING AMPHAROS!!!
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
5,607
Reaction score
6
I was quite obviously talking about Ash's Pokémon.
It wasn't obvious to me. "Water-type starter" implies the six starter families only; some of Ash's water-types - Kingler, Corphish, Buizel, and Palpitoad - are not starter Pokemon.

If you meant Ash's "water-type starters," you're right on that one.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top