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Review XY081: Satoshi Leaps Through Time! Rotom's Wish!!

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What does being Japanese have to do with it? Lots of people have read or watched stories about time travel, and the plot is pretty simple.
 
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What does being Japanese have to do with it? Lots of people have read or watched stories about time travel, and the plot is pretty simple.
When people say that they are confused by time travel, I often wonder if it's the time travel being straight forward simple to understand that confuses people, because they think it has to be some complex and confusing process.

I haven't even seen this episode, and the time travel aspects of the episodes are pretty straight forward, it's not that hard to understand, unless we're talking about aspects of the episode that were minor and irrelevant that caused the whole thing to be confusing.
 
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When people say that they are confused by time travel, I often wonder if it's the time travel being straight forward simple to understand that confuses people, because they think it has to be some complex and confusing process.
What's confusing is that we're told that it's possible to significantly change the past without changing anything (other than the directly relevant details) in the present - how can that not be bloody confusing?!
 
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When people say that they are confused by time travel, I often wonder if it's the time travel being straight forward simple to understand that confuses people, because they think it has to be some complex and confusing process.
What's confusing is that we're told that it's possible to significantly change the past without changing anything (other than the directly relevant details) in the present - how can that not be bloody confusing?!
It confuses me as to why people expect huge differences when people don't travel back a long time ago or do something that would drastically alter the present time.

Ten years difference, and people honestly would expect that events in this lost hotel to directly influence a random event.

- Clemont and Bonnie never existing
- Serena a different skin tone
- Ramos dead before Ash can battle him

Why would changing one little incident that happened at a hotel affect those type of things, why would it even matter if it did.

The whole entire point was to change one specific type of event that occurred to something different which is exactly what this episode did. Tracy suddenly appearing as a main cast member would be pointless, and senseless, so why make it so that's the case.

I'm not saying that it is impossible to have drastic changes in such a short time, certainly things CAN indeed be drastically different. But the problem is when people expect drastic changes and they don't get drastic changes and are confused by the specific simple change that occurred.

Please explain to me what you expected time travel to accomplish because as I understand this is what happened (Maybe I'm wrong, and this isn't it but hear me out):

1. Ash and co go to a hotel controlled by a villainous character (Mantle) that likes to keep people's Pokemon after he defeats them in battle.

2. We learn that the reason this happens, is because Mantle defeated a very "important" person in regards to the hotel, and reigned control over the hotel, and that's what happened as Ash and co traveled back in time.

3. Ash makes an inspiring speech giving this person (Yolton) courage to face off against Mantle, defeating him in battle, and when Ash return the past, Yolton and Mantle have reversed roles.

What's the confusing part? Why Ash doesn't have a shiny Noibat. Why isn't Ash a rainbow colored Troll Elf from the Planet Xenon? I really want to know what's SO confusing about this.

This is NO different than what happened to back to the future with Marty McFly and Doc Brown. On one hand Marty McFly wouldn't have been alive, on the other hand he would had not been alive. If he was in a race that would lead him to be fired at a job many years later for his reckless attitude, he isn't in a race, growing a spine, and is not fired in the future.

Can't imagine why people are thinking like Simpsons, when Homer travels back in time and sneezes on a dinosaur ends up resulting in donuts raining from the sky, or that everyone looks like some kind of blob looking creature. Especially since Homer traveled back millions of years, Marty Mcfly and Ash barely traveled that far in the past.
 
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I've seen all the Butterfly Effect movies, and the effects of changing time, are incredibly small (or narrow) and only relevant to the plot of the story as in the events they alter, but they do not change any events that are not related to the time changing event.

Also for the sound of thunder, the guy traveled back in time millions of years, not a decade or a couple of decades.

I'd see your point if Ash and co traveled back in time several million years, NOT merely a decade.
 
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Why do you keep quoting movies as valid sources? No one really knows what would happen if we could travel back in time and change past events, but it is scientifically/logically likely that even small changes made not that long ago could have a big impact on what we know as the present moment - think about the likelihood of any one sperm being the winner in an intercourse race, and the infinitesimally small change that would make that event not happen so that a different/no human being was created. And that's just one small, small, small scale chance event that would have a big impact on someone's present day.
 
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Why do you keep quoting movies as valid sources? No one really knows what would happen if we could travel back in time and change past events, but it is scientifically/logically likely that even small changes made not that long ago could have a big impact on what we know as the present moment - think about the likelihood of any one sperm being the winner in an intercourse race, and the infinitesimally small change that would make that event not happen so that a different/no human being was created. And that's just one small, small, small scale chance event that would have a big impact on someone's present day.
Okay 1. This is the Pokemon Anime not real life.

2. You keep bringing up the Butterfly Effect but as you said we don't know what will happen. I brought up movies and television because they are examples of what could happen. You can't honestly argue here about a theoretical principal that cannot be tested, and dismiss my examples even though they are fictional. What more do you want, do I have to make a list of all the movies and television shows where traveling in time did NOT have a large impact on the universe in question except for the purposes of the story?

3. As I will continue to repeat, the time travel was ONLY used to change one aspect of history, why you'd expect a convoluted/complex mess when they return on Pokemon anime, even ignoring my examples of where simple changes were made due to time travel, makes me wonder what the point of this discussion is on why people are confused. It's like someone looked at the Butterfly Effect thought it to be some mess if someone traveled back in time and punched someone in the back, and the only thing it did in the present time is make the guy end up dead, a simple devastating change, and somehow confused by this. I don't know what you are expecting, but it's less logical to assume time travel is going to be used in anything except to overcome one time traveling problem especially in regards to the Pokemon anime, which isn't even our universe, and could have entirely different time traveling mechanics than ours, even on a theoretical principal.

4. While you might be right, I very much doubt someone is going to cease to exist just because Ash traveled back in time in Kalos region, and some guy in Johto shifted in bed differently than in the normal timeline, and someone wasn't conceived as a result of that shifting. If Ash traveled back in time to Johto, and kicked the guy in the testicles before he did his business with his lady friend, then I'd see your point. But there's no way that Ash's influence on the hotel affected some guy in Johto. And even if it did, how would we even know this? First off, we are only shown one slice of the universe (Ash's perspective), I can't imagine how confusing it would be for something like;

Narrator: Ash may have traveled back in time to fix a problem that was happening at the Lost Hotel in the Kalos region. Little did Ash and Co know that Phil from Littleroot Town ceased to exist, because the effects of time travel, caused his father to shift during "sex" differently and this time there was no pregnancy, which means no Phil. For shame Ash Ketchum for shame.

Seriously if that had happened, I would've laughed my ass off, and would've been confused because I'd fail to see the purpose of something like that in the anime. And I'd question why it would've been necessary to include that. Last time I checked Japan wasn't against time travel like China was, so if this was their way of warning us about time travel, they did a pretty poor job, because who is Phil and why should I care that he doesn't exist anymore?
 
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If there is something that people don't get it's that not all changes have a massive effect on the future. Sure, there are some cases in which saving a guy from a mortal accident will allow him to become the next president, or he could simply be a guy who simply survives and lives a pretty boring and irrelevant life with no massive impact.

There are changes and changes. Arceus dying almost risked to make Ash and the others disappear, while this event simply made the condition of the hotel. I see no big deal with that, since the change involved only a little area (the hotel). Honestly, what were people expecting? What kind of big change should have happened? I think it is okay the way it is. No need to huge events and consequences every time.
 
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...but as you said we don't know what will happen.
Ok ok I concede I am impaled on my own sword! :p My point was simply that the reason that I, personally, find these episodes annoying is that logically I can't imagine it working but you're right - without actually testing it we can only use our own imaginations (of which mine is limited...)
 
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If there is something that people don't get it's that not all changes have a massive effect on the future. Sure, there are some cases in which saving a guy from a mortal accident will allow him to become the next president, or he could simply be a guy who simply survives and lives a pretty boring and irrelevant life with no massive impact.

There are changes and changes. Arceus dying almost risked to make Ash and the others disappear, while this event simply made the condition of the hotel. I see no big deal with that, since the change involved only a little area (the hotel). Honestly, what were people expecting? What kind of big change should have happened? I think it is okay the way it is. No need to huge events and consequences every time.
Eh I completely disagree. This changes a lot of things. With Mantle occupying the hotel and gambling Pokemons, a lot of trainers will lose their Pokemon at the hotel and is forced to capture another for their life. This is a huge change to the population of Pokemon, and just like Butterfly Effect, it changes a lot. Lets say today this trainer is forced to capture another Pokemon due to his being taken away by Mantle, he went to capture another one, and then its possible that this capture shifted multiple parent-ship in the wild Pokemons, and these parent might have born children that will impact the big scene. Since those Pokemon are not captured, the might become mate with certain Pokemon, and those paired with them in the first timeline will be forced to find another, and the loop goes on and on, and then its nothing short of disaster. Its ten years ago, its completely possible that Diantha's Gardevoir wasn't born as a result of her parents met other Pokemon and become mate with them.

Butterfly effect might not affect the anime as I don't think the writer will implement it, but if they did its a huge mess. Huge I say!

The movie however, is considered non-canon, and I will be happy if you can convince me otherwise, I really love if Ash really befriended so many Legendary on his journey. (I dont event need him to capture one, just befriending is enough for me XD) They have no continuity to the main series and whatever timeline its in it does not affect the anime timeline. They always add subtle hits like the Lunar Wing of Dawn, but the adventure itself is completely off the book and they act that they never saw the Legendaries.
 
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If there is something that people don't get it's that not all changes have a massive effect on the future. Sure, there are some cases in which saving a guy from a mortal accident will allow him to become the next president, or he could simply be a guy who simply survives and lives a pretty boring and irrelevant life with no massive impact.

There are changes and changes. Arceus dying almost risked to make Ash and the others disappear, while this event simply made the condition of the hotel. I see no big deal with that, since the change involved only a little area (the hotel). Honestly, what were people expecting? What kind of big change should have happened? I think it is okay the way it is. No need to huge events and consequences every time.
Eh I completely disagree. This changes a lot of things. With Yolton occupying the hotel and gambling Pokemons, a lot of trainers will lose their Pokemon at the hotel and is forced to capture another for their life. This is a huge change to the population of Pokemon, and just like Butterfly Effect, it changes a lot. Lets say today this trainer is forced to capture another Pokemon due to his being taken away by Yolton, he went to capture another one, and then its possible that this capture shifted multiple parent-ship in the wild Pokemons, and these parent might have born children that will impact the big scene. Since those Pokemon are not captured, the might become mate with certain Pokemon, and those paired with them in the first timeline will be forced to find another, and the loop goes on and on, and then its nothing short of disaster. Its ten years ago, its completely possible that Diantha's Gardevoir wasn't born as a result of her parents met other Pokemon and become mate with them.

Butterfly effect might not affect the anime as I don't think the writer will implement it, but if they did its a huge mess. Huge I say!

The movie however, is considered non-canon, and I will be happy if you can convince me otherwise, I really love if Ash really befriended so many Legendary on his journey. (I dont event need him to capture one, just befriending is enough for me XD) They have no continuity to the main series and whatever timeline its in it does not affect the anime timeline. They always add subtle hits like the Lunar Wing of Dawn, but the adventure itself is completely off the book and they act that they never saw the Legendaries.

Wait I'm confused, I thought Mantle was a bad guy and Yolton was the good guy,

Yolton is somehow worse than Mantle?

Or are you saying that Mantle FORCED certain partnerships with the Pokemon, two parent Pokemon meeting as a result of the terror inflicted upon Mantle, but because Yolton is a "good guy" these Pokemon partnered up with other Pokemon and as a result some Pokemon aren't existing at the time.

While I can see your point that perhaps Diantha wouldn't have the SAME exact Gardevoie (assuming said Ralts was found near the Lost Hotel), I'm pretty sure she would've just caught a different Ralts and evolved it, it's not like these Pokemon are one of kind, they may be super rare, but it wouldn't be impossible for Diantha to not be affected, unless of course we're going to argue, that Diantha's Gardevoir is very special unique, which is why Diantha is champion, and an ordinary Gardevoir wouldn't allow Diantha to become champion.

The problem with complicated timeline changes is even if they could happen, there are too many conditions involved, in order to genuinely say that it could have an effect. But simple basic obvious changes are much easier to believe. If we assume a very narrow "destiny" Event A leads to Event B that leads to Event C.

We definitely don't need Event A under Condition A results in B, under Condition B it results in B2, Event B with Condition C results in Event R if Condition L is not met.
 
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As far as I'm concerned, while I do believe that the main characters doing all this revisionist history type of thing should end up having a greater effect on the Kalos region than just the hotel looking better and Yolton still runs it, you've got to realise this is the Pokemon anime, it's meant to be simple for the target audience, it doesn't need to be the whole "Back to the Future" scenario. Even if the former, theoretically, is the one that makes more sense.
 
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Guys guys guys... I understand why you all are annoyed that time travel didn't create any Butterfly Effects or Grandfather Paradoxes. Normally, time travel throws a wrench into a plot, and things get complicated.

Normally.

This is the Pokemon anime. We have a protagonist who gets a mindscrew trying to comprehend things like different kinds of berries and forgets type matchups that my 7-year-old brother has memorized. Especially considering this is a one-off filler, why in the name of Talos would they bother making it as confusing a every other story that's used this plot device?

Really, if they had followed the rules of time that have been laid out by other media, Ash & co. wouldn't have been able to just simply alter events like that at all. That'd run the risk of destroying the fabric of space, possibly causing themselves to vanish from existence, creating an alternate reality... or, in some cases, they really just wouldn't be able to change what's already present... in the present.

I'm kind of glad they kept it that simple, even if it's "unrealistic." I've gotten a little weary of every other story using time travel to make things insanely complicated.
 
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Wait I'm confused, I thought Mantle was a bad guy and Yolton was the good guy,

Yolton is somehow worse than Mantle?

Or are you saying that Mantle FORCED certain partnerships with the Pokemon, two parent Pokemon meeting as a result of the terror inflicted upon Mantle, but because Yolton is a "good guy" these Pokemon partnered up with other Pokemon and as a result some Pokemon aren't existing at the time.

While I can see your point that perhaps Diantha wouldn't have the SAME exact Gardevoie (assuming said Ralts was found near the Lost Hotel), I'm pretty sure she would've just caught a different Ralts and evolved it, it's not like these Pokemon are one of kind, they may be super rare, but it wouldn't be impossible for Diantha to not be affected, unless of course we're going to argue, that Diantha's Gardevoir is very special unique, which is why Diantha is champion, and an ordinary Gardevoir wouldn't allow Diantha to become champion.

The problem with complicated timeline changes is even if they could happen, there are too many conditions involved, in order to genuinely say that it could have an effect. But simple basic obvious changes are much easier to believe. If we assume a very narrow "destiny" Event A leads to Event B that leads to Event C.

We definitely don't need Event A under Condition A results in B, under Condition B it results in B2, Event B with Condition C results in Event R if Condition L is not met.
Ok I messed up the names, thanks for telling me. Its been a week since watching it and my mind is fuzzy now.

And each Pokemon simply has different potentials, you can't say all of them are the same. Ash's Infernape is a clear cut example that has a slow start but strong potential. If Diantha caught another Ralts, it could be a Ralts that start out strong and has a little potential or one with a mediocre start and large potential. There is difference between all of them, even the ones in the game has (IVs).

And the Champion can also be affected that way, if Diantha's Gardevoir wasn't affected, what if this Pokemon originally going to be snatched by Mantle on a rookie trainer, who just started out a journey and become an unfortunate victim of him, is not snatched away from him and they bonded together through a journey and beat Diantha to become the champion? Another possiblity! What if this other trainer didn't get his Pokemon taken away and started out a Gym ahead of the younger ones we have now like Clemont?

So what I meant to say is, changing the events of history, even slightly will result in a big change in the future. And I still agree that the writers wouldn't care about butterfly effect, so we have no worries.
 
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What a weird episode. Suddenly the writers thought making Ash and co. travel through time would be a great idea... because? I don't understand. At any rate, I enjoyed watching Rotom battle and Krookodile appearing again.

This episode was really uninteresting and meaningless honestly. Its times like these that /REALLY/ makes me wish there was a lot more than only about 70 new Pokemon, so we wouldn't have to dedicate episodes to older Pokemon.
We had plenty of meaningless episodes in Best Wishes and we had 150 new Pokémon there. We had very few meaningless episodes in Sinooh and the number of introduced Pokémon was less than in Gen V. In short, the number of Pokémon introduced in a generation has no effect in the quality of the episodes. I don't get what you are trying to say. "Only 70 Pokémon" was and still is a positive decision from Game Freak, anyways.
 
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