Preview XY090: A Tag Battle is a Friendship Battle! Eievui's First Time in a Fight!!

[Playerking]

Maybe Noibat and Eevee will both be used here.

Against a Blastoise?
'
I think Shauna would have to forfeit her participation in this episode, just so it would be a little fairer.

Who's to say that Blastoise will actually be involved in the battle?

 

[ii kanji]

The thing I find most interesting here is that Omode has been assigned Serena just like that. As far as I'm concerned it just serves to highlight that Serena is considered only a B character in the XY series, in comparison to Hikari for example, many of whose key episodes I remember being written by Tomioka himself...
Hmmmmmmmmm...................

 

[Boots2@sses]

I'm not really liking this tag battle shtick, it's good for serena and all but if ash/serena lose it will ash's first lost to another trainer in 60 episodes just bcuz his partner had an inexperience battler, it just doesn't feel right. I would rather like the battle to be interrupted than seeing ash/serena to lose.

 

[Necrozma]

The thing I find most interesting here is that Omode has been assigned Serena just like that. As far as I'm concerned it just serves to highlight that Serena is considered only a B character in the XY series, in comparison to Hikari for example, many of whose key episodes I remember being written by Tomioka himself...
Hmmmmmmmmm...................

How is she a B character if she's getting a lot of focus? Next to Ash, she gets most screentime and development in the XY series.

She's getting like three episodes in a row.

 

[dman_dustin]

Maybe Noibat and Eevee will both be used here.

Against a Blastoise?
'
I think Shauna would have to forfeit her participation in this episode, just so it would be a little fairer.

Who's to say that Blastoise will actually be involved in the battle?

I don't think it matters, actually since unless Tierno caught a sixth Pokemon, all of Tierno's Pokemon are fully evolved. At best he might use Hitmontop, which would be the only Pokemon he has that Noibat might be able to do anything with. It's still a Hitmontop that's been with Tierno longer than Noibat's been with Ash.

 

[Mikuri]

I honestly feel like I'm the only who actually cares about Ash. You know Serena focus is fine, but I feel like they are wasting focus right now on the wrong person.

I was fine with Serena getting Eevee, I was fine with Serena's Pokemon Showcase being two episodes away from Eevee's capture.

But having THIS episode also be Serena-centric makes no sense whatsoever, especially with it being Eevee.

The moment Ash caught Noibat, and the episode after there was a good, 8 episode gap (with fillers) before Fletchinder evolved. And it's going to even another 6 episodes before the gym battle with Olympia (approximately).

Why doesn't any writer say "You know Noibat hasn't gotten any focus or development for nearly 14 episodes, it's the most recent capture, it belongs to Ash, Ash is a battler, so you'd think that we would try to develop Noibat so that it at least can battle outside of using supersonic, so why not throw a reasonable (not against Blastoise) battle for it, why fillers and so much focus on the OTHER characters?"

But no instead Eevee is being captured, and yet for whatever reason the VERY next episode, is Eevee's first battle. You can argue that Noibat is newly hatched all you want, but Dawn's Cyndaquil was newly hatched and went toe to toe with Ash's Grotle, and had very impressive moves, true maybe that was unrealistic, but what do you think training is for? To build and grow your Pokemon. There was no benefit to Ash getting an egg Pokemon if it's not getting reasonable amount of focus. I would've much preferred an ordinary run of the mill Noibat than one that just hatched out of the egg.

Even if Frogadier might potentially evolve during the Anistar Gym, and so soon after Fletchinder's evolution, it's not going to matter, because Noibat still wouldn't have received focus.

And honestly Noibat being used against Blastoise or even being partners with Blastoise is not what I'd call reasonable development or focus.

From Battling with Elegance and a Big Smile! to Performing with Fiery Charm!, Serena sat in her ass doing jack squat towards her goal of becoming Kalos Queen. We had to endure 14 episodes - almost two times the eight-episode gap you're talking about - in which she rarely does a thing other than breathing. Meanwhile, Ash had a Double Battle against his rival Tierno and won, earned his fifth Gym Badge in the Kalos region after battling Clemont at the Lumiose Gym, released Goodra, defeated Valerie to win one more Badge and get even closer to his goal of entering the Kalos League, faced off against Sawyer in a three-on-three battle and won, had Noibat join his team, and last but not least, entered the Pokémon Sky Relay with his newly acquired Pokémon. Why aren't you complaining about this? Don't you think it is a little unfair to Serena? She was doing nothing during this whole time. And now that she's finally getting some episodes to herself this is seen as overkill. Please. Noibat will get to battle eventually, the writers are doing a good job with Ash's Pokémon this time around as no one is being neglected. But there was a lot of episodes centering on Ash, his quest, his rivals, and his Pokémon just recently, now it's time for Serena's. Just be a little patient.

Also, anyone think her Eevee will use Swift or Shadow Ball?

I think it will use Swift and Shadow Ball. hdear:

The thing I find most interesting here is that Omode has been assigned Serena just like that. As far as I'm concerned it just serves to highlight that Serena is considered only a B character in the XY series, in comparison to Hikari for example, many of whose key episodes I remember being written by Tomioka himself...
Hmmmmmmmmm...................

How is she a B character if she's getting a lot of focus? Next to Ash, she gets most screentime and development in the XY series.

She's getting like three episodes in a row.

One could say the same thing about pretty much every girl who has traveled with Ash. Misty received more attention than Brock and Tracey, May got more screentime and development than Brock and Max, Iris was always favored over Cilan... But none of these can't be compared to Dawn because Dawn was a co-star during the Diamond & Pearl series. The writers were as invested in telling her story as they were in telling Ash's. Her name even appears in the introduction text of each Japanese opening theme ("Now, the story of Satoshi and Hikari, and Pokémon, their meetings, adventures, and battles are about to begin!"). No other girl has managed to get her name in the opening. Every other saga tells us the story of Ash, the Sinnoh saga is the only one with two protagonists.

So as you can see, Serena is a secondary character, even if she's getting three episodes in a row focusing on herself. Besides, I don't see much difference in Serena catching an Eevee and entering a Showcase and Iris catching a Dragonite and entering the Junior Cup. It's not like this is the first time ever the writers plan an arc for the girl in the group.

Great to see Serena will be getting a lot of focus in the next few weeks and I think having a writer in charge of her episodes is a very good thing. It gives her story consistency and a sense of direction. Of course it would be better if Tomioka was the one in charge, but one person being assigned to write for Serena is still better than random writers each time the staff feels the need to give her some attention. I just hope Omode tones down the shipping hints a little bit. She was the one who wrote Under the Pledging Tree!, which was highly promoted as the "date episode" that gave Amour shippers everywhere even more reasons to annoy the rest of us. But she was also responsible for some key Serena episodes, such as A Race for Home! and Performing with Fiery Charm!, so we just have to wait and see how she plays things out this time.

 

[dman_dustin]

From Battling with Elegance and a Big Smile! to Performing with Fiery Charm!, Serena sat in her ass doing jack squat towards her goal of becoming Kalos Queen. We had to endure 14 episodes - almost two times the eight-episode gap you're talking about - in which she rarely does a thing other than breathing.

What do you expect? Serena's Goal is to collect 3 keys to enter her big competition to be Kalos Queen, that's only 37.5% of Ash's number of trinkets to enter the Pokemon league.

Meanwhile, Ash had a Double Battle against his rival Tierno and won, earned his fifth Gym Badge in the Kalos region after battling Clemont at the Lumiose Gym, released Goodra, defeated Valerie to win one more Badge and get even closer to his goal of entering the Kalos League, faced off against Sawyer in a three-on-three battle and won, had Noibat join his team, and last but not least, entered the Pokémon Sky Relay with his newly acquired Pokémon.

Almost 4 of those episodes revolved around Sliggoo and Goodra, which in the end means that it didn't really matter because he released Goodra. So instead the only thing that matters is the main 4 episodes revolving around the gym battle, Sawyer and Noibat's Capture and Sky Relay episode.

Why aren't you complaining about this?

Because of Serena's goal.

Don't you think it is a little unfair to Serena? She was doing nothing during this whole time

It's not my fault the writers waited until the last moment to give Serena a trinket related quest, nor is it my fault she only needs 3 keys. What the hell else is Serena supposed to for her goal? Lose a bunch of Pokemon showcases?

And now that she's finally getting some episodes to herself this is seen as overkill.

How many episode could be considered filler DURING the span of when Fennekin evolved, to the Eevee capture episode? About 9 episodes, episodes that could've been devoted to other characters such as Serena. It's the way I felt during DP, we get a whole bunch of fillers and then the next focused episode around the characters was Pikachu and Piplup which ended up being a stupid filler anyway. But let's look at this from Ash's Pokemon's perspective.

Ash caught Froakie and used it in the very next episode to get Fletchling, which was used just 2 episodes later in a gym battle. Froakie then got 2 semi focused episode, revolving around Slyveon and Frogadier. Then Hawlucha was captured, following participated in a battle that with a different match up ended with Fletchling evolving into Fletchinder. After 2 episodes of Fletchling's evolution Hawlucha has some decent focus, then a 6 episode gap and the battle with Korrina begins where Hawlucha battles. 7 episodes after that is another Hawlucha focus episode, followed by Froakie's evolution. 3 episodes after that, Ash captures Goomy which following that episode Goomy gets another episode, and then 2 episodes after is the gym battle with Ramos, with Fletchinder, Hawlucha, Frogadier, three episodes later Goomy evolves into Sliggoo, 4 episodes after that Sliggoo evolves into Goodra. 2 episodes after gym battle with Hawlucha, Pikachu, and Goodra, 2 episodes afterwards is Goodra's release, 4 episodes after that gym battle with Hawlucha and Fletchinder, then Frogadier battles in the very next episode. Then Noibat is captured, then is used in the very next episode, then a Pikachu heavy episode, 7 episodes after that is Fletchinder's evolution into Talonflame, then another likely 7 episodes where Ash battles Olympia, and not one of those 14 episodes that Noibat clearly doesn't have a lot of focus or not implied to, and we're left with a SEVERE lack of development, where Noibat hasn't gotten any focus for a very long time, a lot of of the other Pokemon easily would've gotten development by now.

Please. Noibat will get to battle eventually, the writers are doing a good job with Ash's Pokémon this time around as no one is being neglected.

14 episodes says otherwise, the max of focus a newly captured Pokemon before it showed up and got some decent focus is 7 episodes.

But there was a lot of episodes centering on Ash, his quest, his rivals, and his Pokémon just recently, now it's time for Serena's. Just be a little patient.

I would be FAR more patient and understanding if NOIBAT at least had 30 seconds of Ash training it with another Pokemon to show off its moves, showing that Ash isn't neglecting its development similarly to Iris and Axew.

And let's keep in mind that after Olympia, all the implications are showing that Charizard is going to come back and be the main focus for a few episode, in regards to mega evolution, so Noibat will be screwed even more.

Now I am slightly keeping an open mind, nothing is 100% confirmed other than its been 7 episodes since Noibat got any decent focus. Anything could happen.

I'm just annoyed how it seems that Eevee is getting more focus and experience than Noibat in the very episode after being caught. The Sky relay may have been useful for Noibat's character, but it was not beneficial to Noibat in terms of its role it should play on Ash's team, otherwise why give Ash a Pokemon that isn't going to be useful in battles.

 

[sweetpeamarie_]

So...Serena's sending a freshly caught Eevee against a Blastoise?

She must've drank some Isshu water...

I think ash's pikachu will be the one to go up against blastiose. Serena mostly likely will be battling Shauna

 

[dman_dustin]

So...Serena's sending a freshly caught Eevee against a Blastoise?

She must've drank some Isshu water...

I think ash's pikachu will be the one to go up against blastiose. Serena mostly likely will be battling Shauna

It's a tag battle which means Eevee will likely be going up against Blastoise as well.

 

[Mareepy]

I would be FAR more patient and understanding if NOIBAT at least had 30 seconds of Ash training it with another Pokemon to show off its moves, showing that Ash isn't neglecting its development similarly to Iris and Axew.

And let's keep in mind that after Olympia, all the implications are showing that Charizard is going to come back and be the main focus for a few episode, in regards to mega evolution, so Noibat will be screwed even more.

Now I am slightly keeping an open mind, nothing is 100% confirmed other than its been 7 episodes since Noibat got any decent focus. Anything could happen.

I'm just annoyed how it seems that Eevee is getting more focus and experience than Noibat in the very episode after being caught. The Sky relay may have been useful for Noibat's character, but it was not beneficial to Noibat in terms of its role it should play on Ash's team, otherwise why give Ash a Pokemon that isn't going to be useful in battles.

I personally for once would like a Pokemon to be treated to be a baby exactly instead of being shoved into battles. And I won't mind Noibat not being a strong Pokemon at all, if Noibat turns out to be weaker in raw strength, I would be in the heavens, because Noibat is smart, and this changes everything. I would like to see Ash using an extremely tactical approach in using Noibat, as I already has a couple in my mind already. It would be groundbreaking for the Anime. I'd rather hope Noibat's trainings involves more IQ stuffs than spamming moves, so 30 second trainings are useless for me as they cannot provide enough development for Noibat in the smart department.

So yeah, I don't share your opinion, like at all.

But I do hope the development episode come soon .

And I think its the writers trying to setup the Pikachu x Eevee stuff, so its most likely Pikachu and Eevee as a team.

 

[Mikuri]

What do you expect? Serena's Goal is to collect 3 keys to enter her big competition to be Kalos Queen, that's only 37.5% of Ash's number of trinkets to enter the Pokemon league.

What exactly are you trying to say? I'm not sure if I'm following. Yes, Serena doesn't need as many Princess Keys to enter the Master Class tournament as Ash needs Gym Badges to enter the Pokémon League. No, that does not mean her goal should be largely ignored over long periods of time. The gap between Serena's battle against Aria and Serena's second Pokémon Showcase is absurd no matter the amount of Keys she needs. She should have gotten at least one episode to herself in which she actually trains her Pokémon without said training getting interrupted because one Pokémon is angry for getting its ass burned or depressed over a broken twig. Serena's training sessions are non-existent at this point, and that's pretty bad. The writers have to make Serena deserve her victories, but that won't be possible if her career as a Performer keeps getting neglected like this. I almost forgot she had a goal during this gap.

Almost 4 of those episodes revolved around Sliggoo and Goodra, which in the end means that it didn't really matter because he released Goodra. So instead the only thing that matters is the main 4 episodes revolving around the gym battle, Sawyer and Noibat's Capture and Sky Relay episode.

Even if you're not counting the episodes revolving around Goodra, which doesn't make any sense because it was one of Ash's Pokémon and was important to his story, there is plenty of other things to consider. Ash was getting a lot of attention while Serena was doing nothing. Now they're trying to correct this by giving Serena a few episodes to herself. I think I would understand your frustration if the spotlight had been placed on Serena for far too long and would get extended with these episodes, but that's not the case.

Because of Serena's goal.

You are once again acting like Serena's goal should be treated poorly because she doesn't need to collect as much tokens as Ash. Like I said earlier, she still needs a few episodes focusing on her Pokémon, her rivals, and her career and that's exactly what she's getting right now. I also think it is important to note that this is a Tag Battle episode, which means Serena is sharing one of her rare focus episodes with Ash. She isn't the only character receiving attention here. During episodes focusing on Ash, Serena usually does jack. But Ash is also participating here, one of his Pokémon will get the experience required to win more Badges, I see no reason to complain.

How many episode could be considered filler DURING the span of when Fennekin evolved, to the Eevee capture episode? About 9 episodes, episodes that could've been devoted to other characters such as Serena.

What? Are you even serious? You're mad because Serena is getting attention and you want that attention to be placed on Noibat because filler episodes are a thing that exists and they should be used to develop Serena instead? This makes no sense. Why aren't you complaining that filler episodes are not being used to develop Noibat? Your thought process is going round and round, you're not thinking straight.

"I want Serena episodes to be given to Noibat and filler episodes to be given to Serena!"
"I want filler episodes to be given to Noibat!"

Isn't the second sentence that much simpler? Anyway, I won't be discussing filler episodes with you and how the writers should stop making them to advance the plot, I think at this point in time every Pokémon fan should have grown accustomed to them, accepted that they do exist and will always exist.

14 episodes says otherwise, the max of focus a newly captured Pokemon before it showed up and got some decent focus is 7 episodes.

If that's the case then Noibat can be considered lucky because it got a focus episode following the episode in which it was obtained. It hatched without knowing how to fly and this problem was solved in the next episode, in which Noibat was runner-up to a Starly that won the Sky Relay the previous year. I think this is an interesting development. From not flying at all to almost defeating the last year's winner. I can't handle this "episode didn't play out the way I wanted so I'm not counting it" mentality. Please.

I would be FAR more patient and understanding if NOIBAT at least had 30 seconds of Ash training it with another Pokemon to show off its moves, showing that Ash isn't neglecting its development similarly to Iris and Axew.

And let's keep in mind that after Olympia, all the implications are showing that Charizard is going to come back and be the main focus for a few episode, in regards to mega evolution, so Noibat will be screwed even more.

Now I am slightly keeping an open mind, nothing is 100% confirmed other than its been 7 episodes since Noibat got any decent focus. Anything could happen.

I'm just annoyed how it seems that Eevee is getting more focus and experience than Noibat in the very episode after being caught. The Sky relay may have been useful for Noibat's character, but it was not beneficial to Noibat in terms of its role it should play on Ash's team, otherwise why give Ash a Pokemon that isn't going to be useful in battles.

30 seconds are not enough to develop a Pokémon, to hone its skills, to make it grow stronger, to do any other thing, really. I think an entire episode dedicated to a Pokémon - even if said episode isn't within the next five or so episodes following the Pokémon's debut - is better than seeing 30 seconds of footage of Ash pretending to train his Pokémon. So, um, this week they show Noibat using Bite for half a minute, next week they show it using Wing Attack, and the other week they show it using Air Cutter. So we have 90 seconds worth of training. How is that believable development? Am I supposed to think Noibat is this super strong Pokémon now? Is it able to defeat opponents like Blastoise now? No. Noibat will get a focus episode eventually, and when it does it will be better than a crappy 30-second footage that amounts to nothing.

If you think Noibat taking part in the Pokémon Sky Relay isn't all that helpful because in the end Ash is just a Gym battler and his Pokémon should just battle all the time, then by your logic Serena's Eevee taking part in a Tag Battle won't be that much helpful either considering Serena is a Performer who enters Showcases and there's no battling aspect in a Showcase. Interestingly, I don't see you feeling bad for poor Eevee not getting experience in the field it needs. Eevee is getting a focus episode after its debut, it will do a thing unrelated to its Trainer's career just like what happened to Noibat. Once again I see no reason that justifies your frustration.

 

[Mareepy]

How many episode could be considered filler DURING the span of when Fennekin evolved, to the Eevee capture episode? About 9 episodes, episodes that could've been devoted to other characters such as Serena.

What? Are you even serious? You're mad because Serena is getting attention and you want that attention to be placed on Noibat because filler episodes are a thing that exists and they should be used to develop Serena instead? This makes no sense. Why aren't you complaining that filler episodes are not being used to develop Noibat? Your thought process is going round and round, you're not thinking straight.

"I want Serena episodes to be given to Noibat and filler episodes to be given to Serena!"
"I want filler episodes to be given to Noibat!"

Isn't the second sentence that much simpler? Anyway, I won't be discussing filler episodes with you and how the writers should stop making them to advance the plot, I think at this point in time every Pokémon fan should have grown accustomed to them, accepted that they do exist and will always exist.

This totally nailed it. It seems more like a blind Serena hate instead of caring about Noibat because the mentality of the rant is the first sentence.

@dman_dustin And getting only 3 ribbons doesn't undermine the difficulty of the task nor the screen time Serena deserves. I'd agree if you just said Noibat needs more development, but you said it on a Serena episode thread with a negative tone, I will have to completely disagree.

 

[dman_dustin]

What exactly are you trying to say? I'm not sure if I'm following. Yes, Serena doesn't need as many Princess Keys to enter the Master Class tournament as Ash needs Gym Badges to enter the Pokémon League. No, that does not mean her goal should be largely ignored over long periods of time. The gap between Serena's battle against Aria and Serena's second Pokémon Showcase is absurd no matter the amount of Keys she needs. She should have gotten at least one episode to herself in which she actually trains her Pokémon without said training getting interrupted because one Pokémon is angry for getting its ass burned or depressed over a broken twig. Serena's training sessions are non-existent at this point, and that's pretty bad. The writers have to make Serena deserve her victories, but that won't be possible if her career as a Performer keeps getting neglected like this. I almost forgot she had a goal during this gap.

What I'm saying is that Serena can't have as many episode devoted around her quest because she doesn't have to do as much. If we're talking her about how many episodes a person should get devoted to their quest, and its clear that of course Ash is going to have a lot more. If Serena had a trinket related quest where she needed to collect 30 trinkets of some kind, then I would expect 3-5 times more Serena focus than Ash. In fact if that was the case I would be annoyed since Serena still would need 29 more trinkets but there isn't a lot of episodes, and not a lot has happened. But Serena only needs 2, and she may very well get her next one.

AGAIN not my fault she has a crappy trinket collecting goal. If she had one comparable to Ash's then I would expect Serena to have as much focus as Ash.

But the problem here is she doesn't, so there can't honestly be any real focus episodes, except a few sprinkled here and there, otherwise, the episode that's Serena focused will either be Rhyhorn Racing, or some Serena Poke Ball factory type episode (replacing Pikachu and the plot)

Besides Serena's goal is really bad, because it's not like you can really train for it, with how unusual its being portrayed within the anime. Showcases are extremely weird, and the only thing you can really train for, is things you already know ARE in the Showcases and hope the same will appear in you next showcase.

Even if you're not counting the episodes revolving around Goodra, which doesn't make any sense because it was one of Ash's Pokémon and was important to his story, there is plenty of other things to consider. Ash was getting a lot of attention while Serena was doing nothing. Now they're trying to correct this by giving Serena a few episodes to herself. I think I would understand your frustration if the spotlight had been placed on Serena for far too long and would get extended with these episodes, but that's not the case.

I'm not counting Goodra, since it only existed to make the gym battle with Clemont more exciting.

You are once again acting like Serena's goal should be treated poorly because she doesn't need to collect as much tokens as Ash.

As I just said earlier, it's a combination of only needing 3 keys, and the format of her goal. Of all the trinket related goals it's the least in terms of quality and quantity. It seems like Pokemon Showcases were made up suddenly just to give Serena a goal.

Like I said earlier, she still needs a few episodes focusing on her Pokémon, her rivals, and her career and that's exactly what she's getting right now.

And she was, she just had a Pancham/Braixen episode not just a few episodes ago, that was heavily focused on her Pokemon, and I was perfectly fine with it (outside of lingering resentment that they gave Serena Fennekin) but it was a fine episode, and I had no complaints. This episode however seems to only exist just to shove in my face that the writers/executive producers hate Ash and want nothing to do with him, since they decided to release Goodra and give him an egg Pokemon, all at the worst possible time ever, because it was impossible for Ash to have both Noibat and Goodra on his team at the same time.

I also think it is important to note that this is a Tag Battle episode, which means Serena is sharing one of her rare focus episodes with Ash. She isn't the only character receiving attention here. During episodes focusing on Ash, Serena usually does jack. But Ash is also participating here, one of his Pokémon will get the experience required to win more Badges, I see no reason to complain.

If we see Pikachu as a battler then I'm not interested in the Ash related focus (even though it's probably going to be very minimal anyway) and besides people participating in battles doesn't mean they got focus. Did it feel like Clemont and Serena did something worthwhile while battling Florges' army during the Goodra release episode?

What? Are you even serious? You're mad because Serena is getting attention and you want that attention to be placed on Noibat because filler episodes are a thing that exists and they should be used to develop Serena instead? This makes no sense. Why aren't you complaining that filler episodes are not being used to develop Noibat? Your thought process is going round and round, you're not thinking straight.

I clearly said this wrong, I was implying Noibat I just didn't say Noibat. I only said Serena because we were talking about the gap between Serena focused episodes. So of course Noibat at the time was not on my mind, I was only looking at the situation at the moment and that was the lack of Serena episodes.

Sorry I'm such a moron that I can't keep track of every instance and every character during a single thought process.

If that's the case then Noibat can be considered lucky because it got a focus episode following the episode in which it was obtained. It hatched without knowing how to fly and this problem was solved in the next episode, in which Noibat was runner-up to a Starly that won the Sky Relay the previous year. I think this is an interesting development. From not flying at all to almost defeating the last year's winner. I can't handle this "episode didn't play out the way I wanted so I'm not counting it" mentality. Please.

What? I'm not counting it as focus/development for Noibat, but of course it's counted for Noibat's character.

If Serena's Eevee gives birth to an egg, that's given to a character that we'll never see again, how is that beneficial to Serena or her goal.

If Braixen gets "caught" by a villain with mind control and attacks everyone (unbeknownst to the group) and Serena feels like she did something wrong and doesn't deserve Braixen, then how is this counted for development outside of just Serena's interaction with Braixen and their relationship.

Noibat's development to how it related to Ash's goal was resolved in the first few minutes, allowing it to move the way it was supposed to move, everything else was relating to its character.

Also I just said almost all Pokemon got focus in the almost immediate episode after being caught, so I'm not sure how Noibat is lucky. I was saying the gap for focused episodes for the Pokemon was a max of 7, and it's already like 14 for Noibat, Noibat could technically evolve by now, if it wasn't an egg Pokemon and didn't have poor screen time.

30 seconds are not enough to develop a Pokémon, to hone its skills, to make it grow stronger, to do any other thing, really. I think an entire episode dedicated to a Pokémon - even if said episode isn't within the next five or so episodes following the Pokémon's debut - is better than seeing 30 seconds of footage of Ash pretending to train his Pokémon.

You're assuming that I want 30 seconds to replace an episode. Let's just wait until we actually get a heavy Noibat focus, let's look at that gap, are you saying you are fine with absolutely NOTHING happening at all for Noibat, up until that heavy focus episode, or would it better to show it doing something even for a short time leading up to that episode?

So, um, this week they show Noibat using Bite for half a minute, next week they show it using Wing Attack, and the other week they show it using Air Cutter. So we have 90 seconds worth of training. How is that believable development? Am I supposed to think Noibat is this super strong Pokémon now? Is it able to defeat opponents like Blastoise now? No. Noibat will get a focus episode eventually, and when it does it will be better than a crappy 30-second footage that amounts to nothing.

Or we could look at what's likely to happen, and Noibat gets very little focus and conveniently evolves right before the league in a very clearly rushed way just to give Ash a believably strong Pokemon.

Are the 30 seconds of training still looking like a bad idea.

If you think Noibat taking part in the Pokémon Sky Relay isn't all that helpful because in the end Ash is just a Gym battler and his Pokémon should just battle all the time, then by your logic Serena's Eevee taking part in a Tag Battle won't be that much helpful either considering Serena is a Performer who enters Showcases and there's no battling aspect in a Showcase. Interestingly, I don't see you feeling bad for poor Eevee not getting experience in the field it needs. Eevee is getting a focus episode after its debut, it will do a thing unrelated to its Trainer's career just like what happened to Noibat. Once again I see no reason that justifies your frustration.

The difference here is Noibat went into the Sky Relay just for fun, only for one instance of FULLY mastering flight during strong winds (which wasn't entirely necessary or really all that relevant, since that would only useful fighting against flying Pokemon that have the ability to blow strong wind at the opponent.

Eevee is likely in a tag battle to help overcome Eevee's shyness and therefore more helpful during Pokemon showcases, also what Eevee's moveset is like, and how it can pertain to Pokemon Showcases. After all Ash got inspiration from Dawn while she was doing a contest, just like how Dawn got inspired by Ash during a battle.

What does Noibat have? Super sonic. How did Ash figure it out? It was the first thing it did after being hatched.

Ooh can't wait to see how Ash is going to use Noibat in a battle with just supersonic, and with no other sort of clear idea of what Noibat is or has. Let's just Ash use Poke dex and cheat the audience from knowing Noibat's move pool.

Let's not give him the Swadloon vs Stunfisk in the Deino episode treatment which was what Swadloon needed, even though its next episode where it got any sort of focus was its evolution.

Yes let's not do that to Noibat, who needed focus more than even Fletchinder evolving into Talonflame, yes let's just throw in a random focused episode, maybe using an attack, and the next episode which will be episodes before the league and evolving into Noivern because that's clearly far better than also having that but also having random moments of Noibat battling/training even if its for 30 seconds.

I would be FAR more patient and understanding if NOIBAT at least had 30 seconds of Ash training it with another Pokemon to show off its moves, showing that Ash isn't neglecting its development similarly to Iris and Axew.

And let's keep in mind that after Olympia, all the implications are showing that Charizard is going to come back and be the main focus for a few episode, in regards to mega evolution, so Noibat will be screwed even more.

Now I am slightly keeping an open mind, nothing is 100% confirmed other than its been 7 episodes since Noibat got any decent focus. Anything could happen.

I'm just annoyed how it seems that Eevee is getting more focus and experience than Noibat in the very episode after being caught. The Sky relay may have been useful for Noibat's character, but it was not beneficial to Noibat in terms of its role it should play on Ash's team, otherwise why give Ash a Pokemon that isn't going to be useful in battles.

I personally for once would like a Pokemon to be treated to be a baby exactly instead of being shoved into battles. And I won't mind Noibat not being a strong Pokemon at all, if Noibat turns out to be weaker in raw strength, I would be in the heavens, because Noibat is smart, and this changes everything. I would like to see Ash using an extremely tactical approach in using Noibat, as I already has a couple in my mind already. It would be groundbreaking for the Anime. I'd rather hope Noibat's trainings involves more IQ stuffs than spamming moves, so 30 second trainings are useless for me as they cannot provide enough development for Noibat in the smart department.

Then it shouldn't have been given to Ash in the first place.

Because this is what happened with Scraggy who had far more time to receive focus and development, and still ended up being Ash's weakest Pokemon, only beating some random Darumaka in the league in like 10 seconds before it turned into an Axew episode.

Sorry that I don't want Ash with useless, pointless Pokemon that are a hindrance to Ash's goal. Makes releasing Goodra far worse.

@Mikuri

Is it able to defeat opponents like Blastoise now?

But Noibat is otherwise able to handle a Blastoise even though its received NO battle focus until hypothetically this episode?

But the problem is actually giving it battle focus prior to this Blastoise episode, then it suddenly becomes an issue?

Sorry but if Noibat was going to be used against Tierno's Blastoise, I would've preferred battle focus prior to this episode rather than Noibat showing up just because the writers/executive producers forgot to do anything with Noibat.

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Edit:

You know what, fine, I'll be more understanding about Eevee/Serena getting focus here, if Eevee is used during the Pokemon showcase, and needs to overcome some of its shyness for it to be used during the Pokemon Showcase.

If Eevee is not used during the Pokemon Showcase, then I'll stay annoyed.

 

[Mareepy]

Then it shouldn't have been given to Ash in the first place.

Because this is what happened with Scraggy who had far more time to receive focus and development, and still ended up being Ash's weakest Pokemon, only beating some random Darumaka in the league in like 10 seconds before it turned into an Axew episode.

Sorry that I don't want Ash with useless, pointless Pokemon that are a hindrance to Ash's goal. Makes releasing Goodra far worse.

............... You mean Ash is not smart enough to use a Pokemon tactically? Even myself has plans to use Noibat tactically already. I have full trust in Ash (the writers) in XY, so I believe he can. Brute strength is never the only way to win battles in the Anime, smart people always win, and I will love to see a smart Ash and smart Noibat work together. They will win battles over battles, instead of being useless as you said.

If you just like brute strength, I can assure you that you probably is watching the wrong show, maybe you would like to see Paul be protagonist in DP?

And you just can't let Goodra go right? Let me make this straight, Goodra is not as strong as many people made up. Goodra is slow, gets beaten up easily by fast Pokemon like Heliolisk, doesn't fit the tempo Ash uses Pokemon, lack of creativity due to slow paced, defensive battle style which is not Ash's piece of cake, and finally barely won against Luxray. BARELY, Luxray lost but I can tell you for sure that If Ash is using Luxray insread he would have won by a long shot, due to Luxray being fast paced, offensive oriented and able to be creative in battles.

You are just sour that Goodra is gone and not looking this straight, stating unfair statements over unfair statements, both to Serena and Eevee or Noibat.

 

[dman_dustin]

............... You mean Ash is not smart enough to use a Pokemon tactically?

You can't use a Pokemon tactically if you never use it. You can only use something tactically IF you learn about it and use it. Sitting in a Poke ball, is not helping anyone.

Brute strength is never the only way to win battles in the Anime, smart people always win, and I will love to see a smart Ash and smart Noibat work together. They will win battles over battles, instead of being useless as you said.

If you just like brute strength, I can assure you that you probably is watching the wrong show, maybe you would like to see Paul be protagonist in DP?

I'm not talking about brute strength, I'm talking about experience with one's Pokemon.

Brute strength isn't even the answer either, because none of Ash's Pokemon grow into being about brute strength, they are either caught as they are or they evolve into it. Ash has never had a "weak" Pokemon and grew into being all about brute strength.

I think you're confusing me for what you think I'm confusing Ash with Cameron. Cameron had Pokemon that we're all about brute strength which is the only reason he beat Ash anyway, because it sure as hell wasn't because of skill.

But no, that's not what Ash represent or who he is. Ash has a great bond, a great experience with his Pokemon and draws out their potential. Nope not happening with Noibat.

And you just can't let Goodra go right?

You know the difference between Goodra and Noibat. Ash actually devoted time into helping Goomy get stronger. He instilled a bond with Goomy that when Ash deflected an attack for it, Goomy could evolve, and I'm sure technically off screen, Ash was helping Sliggoo to the point that it even further evolved into Goodra. And he used that bond with Goodra to help beat a Luxray and help him win the Voltage Badge. And then with great bond had to make the hard choice to let it go and be with its friends.

This all happened within 17 episodes, all of that character development jam packed in the span of 17 episodes, and not all those episode revolved around the Pokemon. Only 7 of those episode of 17 episodes revolved around said Pokemon. It's been nearly 17 episodes since Ash caught Noibat, and it's only gotten 2 episodes focused in its "development" It's missing at least 1 or 2 or even 3 episodes of focus that it could've gotten. True, true, I will admit that all of this happened to Goodra because it was only on the cast for only 17 episodes, but I doubt it would've killed a single writer or an executive producer to devote a single episode for Noibat during these 14 episodes that Noibat hasn't done anything. Just a single one. Added to that, Serena could've caught Eevee much sooner.

Goodra is not as strong as many people made up. Goodra is slow, gets beaten up easily by fast Pokemon like Heliolisk, doesn't fit the tempo Ash uses Pokemon,

Pokemon A beating Pokemon B when Pokemon B can beat Pokemon C does not mean Pokemon A can beat Pokemon C. I've never ever understood that kind of logic. Pokemon have weaknesses and strengths, so it not doing very well against Heliolisk means absolutely nothing. Because guess what Ash's Pikachu isn't weak just because it can't hurt a Steelix.

lack of creativity due to slow paced, defensive battle style which is not Ash's piece of cake

I fully admit Goodra had a lackluster finish in the gym battle, not Ash's or Goodra's fault, when the writers decided to give Ash's Goodra bide, because why not.

and finally barely won against Luxray. BARELY, Luxray lost but I can tell you for sure that If Ash is using Luxray insread he would have won by a long shot, due to Luxray being fast paced, offensive oriented and able to be creative in battles.

I would only agree if you meant the reversal of roles if Ash had Luxray and Clemont had Goodra, because I feel as if Clemont wouldn't do so well since he's had NO experience with dragon Pokemon in general, nor was he aware of all that Goodra was capable of, and likely wouldn't be able to plan as well.

Let Ash use Luxray for a few months, give Ash's Goodra directly to Lance for example or a very powerful dragon type trainer, Ash is still going to get his ass whooped, even if he's more comfortable with Luxray than the dragon trainers are with Ash's Goodra. Goodra's whole thing is being defensive, that's what its designed for. It takes a lot of hits and then turns the tables around.

Unfortunately we were stuck with bide as that table turning moment.

You are just sour that Goodra is gone and not looking this straight, stating unfair statements over unfair statements, both to Serena and Eevee or Noibat.

If I'm sour it's only because they did so much with Goodra in so little time, that they can't even devote one single little 30 second scene, attempting to show that Ash is even trying to train or bond or understand Noibat. Apparently Ash is relying on hopes and dreams and the heart of the cards to succeed at his goal.

He can't just hope and pray his Noibat will be able to defeat a Pokemon with no experience whatsoever, I know that worked for Krabby but I feel that was more comedic relief then actually being serious.

Ash can actually train his Pokemon, and then he can pray and hope his Pokemon beats its opponent, not just randomly.

 

[Mareepy]

You can't use a Pokemon tactically if you never use it. You can only use something tactically IF you learn about it and use it. Sitting in a Poke ball, is not helping anyone.

Brute strength is never the only way to win battles in the Anime, smart people always win, and I will love to see a smart Ash and smart Noibat work together. They will win battles over battles, instead of being useless as you said.

If you just like brute strength, I can assure you that you probably is watching the wrong show, maybe you would like to see Paul be protagonist in DP?

I'm not talking about brute strength, I'm talking about experience with one's Pokemon.

Brute strength isn't even the answer either, because none of Ash's Pokemon grow into being about brute strength, they are either caught as they are or they evolve into it. Ash has never had a "weak" Pokemon and grew into being all about brute strength.

I think you're confusing me for what you think I'm confusing Ash with Cameron. Cameron had Pokemon that we're all about brute strength which is the only reason he beat Ash anyway, because it sure as hell wasn't because of skill.

But no, that's not what Ash represent or who he is. Ash has a great bond, a great experience with his Pokemon and draws out their potential. Nope not happening with Noibat.

And you just can't let Goodra go right?

You know the difference between Goodra and Noibat. Ash actually devoted time into helping Goomy get stronger. He instilled a bond with Goomy that when Ash deflected an attack for it, Goomy could evolve, and I'm sure technically off screen, Ash was helping Sliggoo to the point that it even further evolved into Goodra. And he used that bond with Goodra to help beat a Luxray and help him win the Voltage Badge. And then with great bond had to make the hard choice to let it go and be with its friends.

This all happened within 17 episodes, all of that character development jam packed in the span of 17 episodes, and not all those episode revolved around the Pokemon. Only 7 of those episode of 17 episodes revolved around said Pokemon. It's been nearly 17 episodes since Ash caught Noibat, and it's only gotten 2 episodes focused in its "development" It's missing at least 1 or 2 or even 3 episodes of focus that it could've gotten. True, true, I will admit that all of this happened to Goodra because it was only on the cast for only 17 episodes, but I doubt it would've killed a single writer or an executive producer to devote a single episode for Noibat during these 14 episodes that Noibat hasn't done anything. Just a single one. Added to that, Serena could've caught Eevee much sooner.

Goodra is not as strong as many people made up. Goodra is slow, gets beaten up easily by fast Pokemon like Heliolisk, doesn't fit the tempo Ash uses Pokemon,

Pokemon A beating Pokemon B when Pokemon B can beat Pokemon C does not mean Pokemon A can beat Pokemon C. I've never ever understood that kind of logic. Pokemon have weaknesses and strengths, so it not doing very well against Heliolisk means absolutely nothing. Because guess what Ash's Pikachu isn't weak just because it can't hurt a Steelix.

lack of creativity due to slow paced, defensive battle style which is not Ash's piece of cake

I fully admit Goodra had a lackluster finish in the gym battle, not Ash's or Goodra's fault, when the writers decided to give Ash's Goodra bide, because why not.

and finally barely won against Luxray. BARELY, Luxray lost but I can tell you for sure that If Ash is using Luxray insread he would have won by a long shot, due to Luxray being fast paced, offensive oriented and able to be creative in battles.

I would only agree if you meant the reversal of roles if Ash had Luxray and Clemont had Goodra, because I feel as if Clemont wouldn't do so well since he's had NO experience with dragon Pokemon in general, nor was he aware of all that Goodra was capable of, and likely wouldn't be able to plan as well.

Let Ash use Luxray for a few months, give Ash's Goodra directly to Lance for example or a very powerful dragon type trainer, Ash is still going to get his ass whooped, even if he's more comfortable with Luxray than the dragon trainers are with Ash's Goodra. Goodra's whole thing is being defensive, that's what its designed for. It takes a lot of hits and then turns the tables around.

Unfortunately we were stuck with bide as that table turning moment.

You are just sour that Goodra is gone and not looking this straight, stating unfair statements over unfair statements, both to Serena and Eevee or Noibat.

If I'm sour it's only because they did so much with Goodra in so little time, that they can't even devote one single little 30 second scene, attempting to show that Ash is even trying to train or bond or understand Noibat. Apparently Ash is relying on hopes and dreams and the heart of the cards to succeed at his goal.

He can't just hope and pray his Noibat will be able to defeat a Pokemon with no experience whatsoever, I know that worked for Krabby but I feel that was more comedic relief then actually being serious.

Ash can actually train his Pokemon, and then he can pray and hope his Pokemon beats its opponent, not just randomly.

So you like the rushed development in 17 episode instead of one that is not shown yet? So tell me how Noibat's development will be and how bad it is going to be? Oh you can't, because it hasn't happen yet. Oh did anyone say the league is going to be early 2016? Oh was it confirmed yet? Oh no, Noibat could potentially has more than 40 episode's time to develop, what should I do?

Serena catching Eevee earlier won't change anything. You are missing the point completely, if there is anything that need to happen earlier, it is Noibat's development. Dragging other events to happen earlier doesn't make Noibat's development come earlier. Dragging other events earlier will only make a huge filler gap until the next Noibat episode. If you don't get it, instead of 3 filler then 1 focus, we have 5 focus in a row and then 15 fillers, does this make Noibat's epsiode come earlier? No! If anything will help, its cut the numbers of fillers! Serena and Eevee's development is not the one slowing down Noibat's development, its the fillers! So can you just stop stomping on Serena's episode?

And I didn't say that Ash can use Noibat tactically without training it, but I did say that it is to point out 30 second trainings are pointless. I'd rather not have pointless scenes taking screen time off the focused characters. What Noibat needed is focused episodes.

Your point with Goodra is moot because Goodra did not do well in the fight vs both Heliolisk and Luxray, as I pointed out. And you had to drag a Champion like Lance in to make your argument look good? NO duh, it makes it look bad, as if only Champions can make Goodra win battle, that makes one in Ash's hand rubbish. To make it fair lets make an Ash clone with one Ash using Luxray and another using Goodra. Bam case closed, I beat you in the argument.

And complaining about Bide is hilarious. I am sorry, Goodra can't learn Metal Burst, nor Mirror Coat, having only Counter makes it a punching bag for Special attacks, Bide works for ALL attacks, and it works differently in the Anime. Its the best it can get that fits the defensive style in the Anime. But its just not Ash's style, you still don't get it.

 

[dman_dustin]

So you like the rushed development in 17 episode instead of one that is not shown yet?

It's only rushed development when you consider Goodra only existed to make the gym battle exciting against Clemont rather than any other Pokemon. If Goodra was still on Ash's team, it would arguably be the best developed Pokemon on Ash's team. The only Pokemon that would arguably beat Goodra's development, would be Froakie and that's only due to seniority of being on the main cast.

So tell me how Noibat's development will be and how bad it is going to be? Oh you can't, because it hasn't happen yet. Oh did anyone say the league is going to be early 2016? Oh was it confirmed yet? Oh no, Noibat could potentially has more than 40 episode's time to develop, what should I do?

It's an egg Pokemon, it's Ash's most recent captures. Noibat isn't even strong enough to beat even Viola's Surskit. His current Pokemon outside of Noibat are and should be strong enough to take on Olympia and Wulfric. A few sprinkled episodes few and far in between isn't going to make Noibat suddenly able to compete in league battles, that's only going to happen if it evolves. At least if they had thrown in some kind of training in at this point, it would alleviate the unfortunate pressure that is keeping Noibat from development. And I would prefer if Noibat didn't evolve just so Ash has a league capable Pokemon, I want Noibat to evolve as a reward for all its hard work, and while it may not be league worthy as a Noibat, it could compete with some of the "weaker" league opponents so evolving it would just make sure it had that added boost.

Serena catching Eevee earlier won't change anything. You are missing the point completely, if there is anything that need to happen earlier, it is Noibat's development.

Not really, if we go with Mikuri's argument that Serena was strapped for development episode, then Serena capturing Eevee should at least alleviate the lack of Serena out.

Dragging other events to happen earlier doesn't make Noibat's development come earlier. Dragging other events earlier will only make a huge filler gap until the next Noibat episode. If you don't get it, instead of 3 filler then 1 focus, we have 5 focus in a row and then 15 fillers, does this make Noibat's epsiode come earlier? No! If anything will help, its cut the numbers of fillers! Serena and Eevee's development is not the one slowing down Noibat's development, its the fillers! So can you just stop stomping on Serena's episode?

No, I get it, you're right, Serena catching Eevee right after Ash caught Noibat, wouldn't have changed anything. Noibat still would've been screwed over, but at the very least, perhaps people could see why I'm so annoyed that they aren't doing ANYTHING with Noibat.

And I didn't say that Ash can use Noibat tactically without training it, but I did say that it is to point out 30 second trainings are pointless. I'd rather not have pointless scenes taking screen time off the focused characters. What Noibat needed is focused episodes.

How are they pointless? How is nothing better than something? How is that even a thing.

People would rather have 5 episodes out 50 possible episodes focused on a character?

Sorry but no, I would always prefer having 5 episodes plus an additional 10 separate episodes where said character or rather Pokemon does something relevant to its trainer's goal even if it's just short training or even a small battle that has no conclusion.

The episode where Axew mastered Dragon Rage is the perfect example of what I'm talking about in regards to Scraggy and my argument. Even though Scraggy didn't get A LOT of development, it still had those small moments proving that Ash was still taking the time to train Scraggy as best he could under the hell that was best wishes. You take those small and what you consider "insignificant" moments than Scraggy is better off.

AGAIN I'm not saying 30 seconds of training IN PLACE OF a Pokemon centric episode, I'm saying in ADDITION to those Pokemon centric episodes.

Your point with Goodra is moot because Goodra did not do well in the fight vs both Heliolisk and Luxray,

Okay then, Pikachu sucks just because it can't beat a Steelix while it barely beats a Dragonite, or a Latios or a Regice, okay then, that's fine.

as I pointed out. And you had to drag a Champion like Lance in to make your argument look good? NO duh

I was proving a point that the trainer matters. Of course the trainer matters. The trainer always matter.

it makes it look bad, as if only Champions can make Goodra win battle, that makes one in Ash's hand rubbish. To make it fair lets make an Ash clone with one Ash using Luxray and another using Goodra. Bam case closed, I beat you in the argument.

Nope. Because Clemont knew all about Luxray, is an electric type gym leader, and will always be superior to Ash when it comes to electric type Pokemon even if Ash's starter is Pikachu.

In your hypothetical example, Ash would do a lot worse with Luxray and Goodra would do a lot better. But let's assume that we pull a Clemont, and that Ash trains with Luxray. Ash will still do less as good as Clemont because Clemont specifically trained to prepare for his gym battle with Ash.

Ash is only good most of time when he works spontaneously, except in examples of super training. But Ash couldn't think of a counter of a clone of himself with a Goodra while he has Luxray, his best defense would have been Heliolisk which would have beaten Goodra had Ash not recalled it, and Clemont already had that down pat in likely a much better way than Ash would've handled it.

NOT to mention Goodra got super effected by Heliolisk's dragon tail, when severely damaged Goodra, and yet Luxray was still near full health at the time it battled Goodra.

This is like the argument with Paul vs Ash, Electivire vs Infernape. People say that Ash only beat Paul because of blaze, but Infernape had taken a lot of damage more so than Electivire when it was thrown in the battle. Had Infernape been at full strength it would've fared a lot better.

Same argument here with Luxray. Goodra was already likely less than half health when battle a nearly healthy full health Luxray. And it came close to a tie. Had Goodra not been affected by thunder wave not been hit by dragon tail, Goodra would've NO trouble taking out Luxray.

And complaining about Bide is hilarious. I am sorry, Goodra can't learn Metal Burst, nor Mirror Coat, having only Counter makes it a punching bag for Special attacks, Bide works for ALL attacks, and it works differently in the Anime. Its the best it can get that fits the defensive style in the Anime. But its just not Ash's style, you still don't get it.

I'm sorry did Goodra suck for some other reason, because honestly that's the only criticism that I had with it.

And Goodra not doing well against Heliolisk made sense. It's like expecting Pikachu did beat Golurk, why? Because the only attack Pikachu can use against Golurk which is Iron tail makes it superior to it even though Pikachu will still lose?

Just because Goodra can't beat a Pokemon that is tactically better doesn't mean its weak.

 

[Mareepy]

It's only rushed development when you consider Goodra only existed to make the gym battle exciting against Clemont rather than any other Pokemon. If Goodra was still on Ash's team, it would arguably be the best developed Pokemon on Ash's team. The only Pokemon that would arguably beat Goodra's development, would be Froakie and that's only due to seniority of being on the main cast.

.............Good job dissing Talonflame. It has rather good evolution episodes and good moments with Ash's other Pokemons. And I encourage you to take a look at my review of Goodra's development, too many plot holes, and tons of wasted potential. I really wouldn't call it a 'good development'.

It's an egg Pokemon, it's Ash's most recent captures. Noibat isn't even strong enough to beat even Viola's Surskit. His current Pokemon outside of Noibat are and should be strong enough to take on Olympia and Wulfric. A few sprinkled episodes few and far in between isn't going to make Noibat suddenly able to compete in league battles, that's only going to happen if it evolves. At least if they had thrown in some kind of training in at this point, it would alleviate the unfortunate pressure that is keeping Noibat from development. And I would prefer if Noibat didn't evolve just so Ash has a league capable Pokemon, I want Noibat to evolve as a reward for all its hard work, and while it may not be league worthy as a Noibat, it could compete with some of the "weaker" league opponents so evolving it would just make sure it had that added boost.

How are they pointless? How is nothing better than something? How is that even a thing.

People would rather have 5 episodes out 50 possible episodes focused on a character?

Sorry but no, I would always prefer having 5 episodes plus an additional 10 separate episodes where said character or rather Pokemon does something relevant to its trainer's goal even if it's just short training or even a small battle that has no conclusion.

The episode where Axew mastered Dragon Rage is the perfect example of what I'm talking about in regards to Scraggy and my argument. Even though Scraggy didn't get A LOT of development, it still had those small moments proving that Ash was still taking the time to train Scraggy as best he could under the hell that was best wishes. You take those small and what you consider "insignificant" moments than Scraggy is better off.

AGAIN I'm not saying 30 seconds of training IN PLACE OF a Pokemon centric episode, I'm saying in ADDITION to those Pokemon centric episodes.

Will 30 second of development actually make Noibat beat Tierno? Trevor? Shota? No? So its pointless, and its as bad as nothing at all. And yes I'd rather has a Pokemon centric episode rather than training sprinkle over episodes. Because the focused episodes matters the most.

And Pokemon has a limited run time, around 24 minutes per episodes, so there is hardly additional time available.

Nope. Because Clemont knew all about Luxray, is an electric type gym leader, and will always be superior to Ash when it comes to electric type Pokemon even if Ash's starter is Pikachu.

In your hypothetical example, Ash would do a lot worse with Luxray and Goodra would do a lot better. But let's assume that we pull a Clemont, and that Ash trains with Luxray. Ash will still do less as good as Clemont because Clemont specifically trained to prepare for his gym battle with Ash.

Ash is only good most of time when he works spontaneously, except in examples of super training. But Ash couldn't think of a counter of a clone of himself with a Goodra while he has Luxray, his best defense would have been Heliolisk which would have beaten Goodra had Ash not recalled it, and Clemont already had that down pat in likely a much better way than Ash would've handled it.

NOT to mention Goodra got super effected by Heliolisk's dragon tail, when severely damaged Goodra, and yet Luxray was still near full health at the time it battled Goodra.

This is like the argument with Paul vs Ash, Electivire vs Infernape. People say that Ash only beat Paul because of blaze, but Infernape had taken a lot of damage more so than Electivire when it was thrown in the battle. Had Infernape been at full strength it would've fared a lot better.

Same argument here with Luxray. Goodra was already likely less than half health when battle a nearly healthy full health Luxray. And it came close to a tie. Had Goodra not been affected by thunder wave not been hit by dragon tail, Goodra would've NO trouble taking out Luxray.

I don't think so, Clemont's plan is heavily disrupted by the Rain Dance. If Goodra isn't paralyzed, Ash would not have used Rain Dance, the battle will go on WITH ELECTRIC TERRAIN INTACT. You know what that means. Goodra will indeed have trouble taking out Luxray in both ways, taking the Thunder Wave and Dragon Tail or not taking them. So the Infernape Electivire argument is invalid.

If Ash used Rain Dance to clear out only Electric Terrain, it only proves that Ash is the superior trainer, not Goodra is the superior Pokemon. Goodra is the superior Pokemon only when Ash beats Clemont under a disadvantage, but this is clearly not the case.

And you purposed Clemont did not train for his Gym battle with Ash? Either Ash is the Gym Leader and Clemont challenging him or the over way around, BOTH of them did their training to counter each other's plan. And the end its proven Ash won the battle, not because of Goodra is a better Pokemon, its because of Ash is the better trainer. So reversing their role and Pokemon doesn't make Ash lose the battle, Ash will still win.

I'm sorry did Goodra suck for some other reason, because honestly that's the only criticism that I had with it.

And Goodra not doing well against Heliolisk made sense. It's like expecting Pikachu did beat Golurk, why? Because the only attack Pikachu can use against Golurk which is Iron tail makes it superior to it even though Pikachu will still lose?

Just because Goodra can't beat a Pokemon that is tactically better doesn't mean its weak.

I am sorry, Ash can beat a Golurk with Pikachu, I am 100% sure of it. Or even Steelix. Most CotDs is just horrible in training their Pokemon, so its completely possible, or might even already happened in the past, in an even more ridiculous match up. It will take a strong rival or Gym Leader (or Elite Four and Champion, but that's overkill) to beat Ash with a Steelix or Golurk.

See? You said Trainer mattered, and I completely agree with that. So its not the problem of match up, as Ash has continuously proven that BAD MATCH UP IS NOTHING. It just took a Hi-jump Kick to the face to make Hawlucha knock out two Fairy types. It will take more than a Golurk or Steelix to beat Ash and Pikachu, it will take a good trainer with Golurk and Steelix to beat Ash and Pikachu.

Okay, I never said Goodra is weak, all I said is not as strong as people made up. Ash is a better Trainer than Clemont, there is no doubt of that as Clemont LOOKS UP on Ash. Ash still only barely won against Clemont even though both of them prepared for each other. The Clemont prepared for Ash is not a valid excuse because Clemont don't know about Goodra (it was still Sliggoo when he left) and Ash prepared for Clemont too. So we arrived at a situation when Ash is the better trainer of the two, who managed to beat Clemont but only barely managing it with Goodra as the last Pokemon. What if the last Pokemon is (lets not pull the Sceptile/Charizard/Infernape card) Leavanny? Bayleef? Pignite? Boldore? Will Ash lose in those scenarios because those Pokemon are not as strong as Goodra? Ash will still win, even though barely, in a quicker and more creative style. In other words, Goodra can be hella strong and it still wouldn't do well under Ash, because its must be used in a completely different way. Like telling a racer who drove left side to drive right side and win the race. Its just not happening, even though the car is way faster, it will not work out.

 

[Iteru]

Noibat and Goodra talk ends now. You're both going way off topic. @dman_dustin; make another thread about Noibat because you are character blaming others and borderline trolling. @Mareepy; learn to report things because you are borderline baiting dman by calling him sour.

Thank you to everyone else who stopped talking about Noibat and Goodra early.

 

[Mareepy]

Noibat and Goodra talk ends now. You're both going way off topic. @dman_dustin; make another thread about Noibat because you are character blaming others and borderline trolling. @Mareepy; learn to report things because you are borderline baiting dman by calling him sour.

Thank you to everyone else who stopped talking about Noibat and Goodra early.

Oops sorry, my bad -_-||. I will be careful next time.

Back to the topic, I can see Pikachu and Eevee winning with Pikachu doing most of the job, making Eevee admire Pikachu as they tried to create a Eevee x Pikachu ship here. But I still think it would be one sided like Buneary's.