Review XY131: Kalos League Victory! Satoshi's Ultimate Match!!

[Shadao]

Except he won't and there will be no rematch between them. Though I see Alain changing somehow after the Flare Arc is over. Because of him Kalos will be almost destroyed and I doubt he will remain the same. He needs to atone for his sins and he will stay with Professor helping him rebuild Kalos. No chance for him challenging E4 or Champion. This dream will be over for him one way or another.

And Ash is a loser of Kalos League. Nothing will change that fact. Greninja is too weak to beat Charizard. And he will never be his strongest pokemon.

Not if that broadcast Greninja episode is anything to go by. And really, Alain will have to atone by battling Ash, the only trainer that has ever given him fun. As a means to remember the point of battling, and a means to atone for what he did to Ash (if the previews are any indications). And a personal price of redemption is for him to revoke his title as Champion and give up his trophy. And give it to Ash once he wins the rematch just for fun.

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

Alain does need to redeem himself for what he's done. He has tried so hard to protect those he cares about, though he caused the danger that threatens the ones he cares about. The Greninja episode on the broadcast data has to have some relevancy though and honestly, it would be an absolute shame if Ash was not allowed to bring down that Charizard once after losing three times to it.

And I don't think Ash-Greninja is weak really. Alain's Charizard is just a bit unreasonably OP, which honestly can't be denied if it takes as much punishment as it does and still stands. Its won literally 95% of its battles and hasn't lost since its debut. Its just the one thing that bothers me about this thing.

 

[swampertuska]

What is even more BS is that in what shape was Charizard after his battle. He didn't have even a scratch! Remember his state when he battled against Remo's Garchomp in Specials, his shape after his first win against first opponent in 10-match marathon against Megas.

It is like he just played with kid. It is like he is Arceus or something.

 

[Elementar]

I just watched a sub, and Alain's win could be set up. Malva said during her interview that when "Greninja eventually loses..." before Team Rocket question why she says that. Is that a hint that Alain was always going to win because TF tampered with it?

 

[PrettyVenomoth]

Alain does need to redeem himself for what he's done. He has tried so hard to protect those he cares about, though he caused the danger that threatens the ones he cares about. The Greninja episode on the broadcast data has to have some relevancy though and honestly, it would be an absolute shame if Ash was not allowed to bring down that Charizard once after losing three times to it.

And I don't think Ash-Greninja is weak really. Alain's Charizard is just a bit unreasonably OP, which honestly can't be denied if it takes as much punishment as it does and still stands. Its won literally 95% of its battles and hasn't lost since its debut. It's just the one thing that bothers me about this thing.

Which is why Ash-Greninja beating it now would make no sense. It can't be completely unbeatable god tier for the whole season then lose at the end. That would piss me off even more!

 

[RunnerAwaker]

I just watched a sub, and Alain's win could be set up. Malva said during her interview that when "Greninja eventually loses..." before Team Rocket question why she says that. Is that a hint that Alain was always going to win because TF tampered with it?

I don't know if the subber put it there because felt dismayed about the results, but if that's true, this could be the plausible reason for Ash's loss. Or better yet, the deconstruction of the usual trope the writers put every League arcs.

 

[ArvAl]

Have read all posts.

First off, there was never any concrete sign of Ash's gonna win. Trailers and scans were just for creating thrills/hype so fans would think he will be champion. It's already a part of every preview purposes on media.

Second, I am not sad to see him lost. 20 years and still around status quo is enough to me being skeptical since 1st Kalos episode despite the finals match did interest me a lot to watch. Instead, I was giggling through entire this thread's reaction (especially the first 5 pages) commenting how awful Ash's losing was towards Alain a.k.a Kalos Current Public Enemy #1. No offense but to be honest, it doesn't let me stop laughing.

For those who suffered huge despair on the losing, let me ask you something, did Earth cracked into half just because he got whacked by Alain? Or did your place suddenly shaken for the same reason? If no, then you're probably exaggerating yourself.

Get over it folks, whatever happened yesterday has happened. Don't let it drag you down. We'll have chances next time in Alola IF it's still providing Gyms and League.

*pats everyone*

 

[Moe]

Thoughts on the whole arc -

Ash was at the final of the Pokemon League - he was all but alone. We saw the Pokemon from the wetlands cheering on Goodra, rather than Oak and the rest of Ash's team, we saw Clemont's father - but not Ash's mother. Yeah, Serena and the others were there, acquaintances he will leave and not see again in a few months time - sitting all the way in the back row - making them look even more detached. Aside from them, the only spark of interest in Ash winning was from Team Rocket, at least they still care.

Ash's Pokemon choices were terrible. Aside from just making do with his 5 Kalos Pokemon plus Pikachu - he changed nothing between the semi and final, just the same set of six - same moves and the same tactics plus a bit of overpowered Pikachu.

Alain equally seems to be the weakest league winner - his team barely beat Ash - yet Ash's choice of Pokemon means he was only a fraction of his potential power - Ash has a dozen more powerful Pokemon than Noivern, Hawlucha and Talonflame - his Sinnoh team from the battle with Paul would have easily won this league.

Which makes me think that despite the general annoyance that Ash can't just have a win - I'm okay with this team losing - he should win the league with a team made up of his top Pokemon across all generations, so it's a consolidation of his past accomplishments. A win here would have felt so hollow.

Sawyer seemed to be the only one who actually was invested in their league outcome, who didn't shrug the loss off with an 'oh well' - but actually went back and started working on what to do next. Ash coming second in the league - his greatest accomplishment as a trainer - manages to not be important enough for the whole episode to be about it.

I don't know what I expected, the build up just felt totally wrong for this to be his winning moment. The Team Flare arc better be good for the damage it did to the league - do something to make Ash care about strength.

 

[Cresselia92]

Get over it folks, whatever happened yesterday has happened. Don't let it drag you down. We'll have chances next time in Alola IF it's still providing Gyms and League.

*pats everyone*

At this point, I pretty much doubt that we'll ever get a chance in Alola, Region 8 or Region X. Even if he were to get te ultimate team with Pikachu, Charizard, Sceptile, Snorlax, Ash-Greninja or whatever, they will just snatch the trophy from him and never let him savor victory. Maybe, if we are lucky enough, we may see him succeed in a subquest, but the main quest seems dead in general, especially if they won't bring back Gyms anymore.

Now, I admit I'm impressed that he managed to reach the finals with just his Kalos team. This is itself an achievement, especially after considering who he faced. However, there are multiple factors that make his loss rub in the wrong way, so to speak.

It isn't like in Johto where he faced an experienced Trainer with unknown Pokémon, where he still was growing up as a Trainer.

It isn't like in Sinnoh where he was confronting a Legendary Trainer and where it was already miraculous to even be able to face the undefeated sweeper.

It isn't like in Unova where skill levels are dropped drastically and the whole match pretty much cemented that.

This time, it showed that Ash truly had a shot to win. That he was so close to the victory that you could almost see it around the corner. That the whole buildup seemed to lead to a conclusion. This is something that had never happened with past Leagues, since in the other cases we got some last minute dream killers. Things were handled differently this time and the result seemed like it was going to be different as well.

And yet, it didn't happen. It just further confirmed Ash's status as a perpetual loser who can only jump from a ranking to another as long as it isn't Rank 1. This is actually disheartening and it's what truly influenced us yesterday. Sure, the wound may heal with time, but the faith has now been dented.

But I guess it may not be that bad, since either people will not be baited as hard anymore and/or the general backlash will force the anime staff to truly consider what the audience wants and try to improve the quality of of the anime. If all, this could be a wake up slap for both audience and anime staff.

Overall, result aside, the battle wasn't even stellar. It was good, sure, but I felt that the second part of this match wasn't as good as the second part of Sawyer's match. It was mainly clash after clash with little strategy, which… didn't feel like finals material to me. Regardless, it set things up for the Team Flare arc quite nicely, so that's something.

 

[ArvAl]

At this point, I pretty much doubt that we'll ever get a chance in Alola, Region 8 or Region X. Even if he were to get te ultimate team with Pikachu, Charizard, Sceptile, Snorlax, Ash-Greninja or whatever, they will just snatch the trophy from him and never let him savor victory. Maybe, if we are lucky enough, we may see him succeed in a subquest, but the main quest seems dead in general, especially if they won't bring back Gyms anymore.

Which is why I'm pessimistic of possibility Ash winning the league. Such small chance wouldn't help him that much,let alone the big fish which escaped from us. However, on positive note, we're able watching some few good rounds so it's not a complete waste either. Not Kalos only, but whole region so far.

Even so, don't take it granted. Alola could be our next big thing.

Now, I admit I'm impressed that he managed to reach the finals with just his Kalos team. This is itself an achievement, especially after considering who he faced. However, there are multiple factors that make his loss rub in the wrong way, so to speak.

It isn't like in Johto where he faced an experienced Trainer with unknown Pokémon, where he still was growing up as a Trainer.

It isn't like in Sinnoh where he was confronting a Legendary Trainer and where it was already miraculous to even be able to face the undefeated sweeper.

It isn't like in Unova where skill levels are dropped drastically and the whole match pretty much cemented that.

This time, it showed that Ash truly had a shot to win. That he was so close to the victory that you could almost see it around the corner. That the whole buildup seemed to lead to a conclusion. This is something that had never happened with past Leagues, since in the other cases we got some last minute dream killers. Things were handled differently this time and the result seemed like it was going to be different as well.

And yet, it didn't happen. It just further confirmed Ash's status as a perpetual loser who can only jump from a ranking to another as long as it isn't Rank 1. This is actually disheartening and it's what truly influenced us yesterday. Sure, the wound may heal with time, but the faith has now been dented.

I think the blame was based on his lack off onscreen training. Thus, it ended up a huge backlash to Ash. Hawlucha, Noivern, and Goodra were damn underdeveloped. Sure, not a legit reason BTW since less onscreen training doesn't mean they weren't training, but when you take a flashback on Goodra's arc, there isn't any much development followed and it totally blew Ash up to losing despite being pseudo-legendary powerhouse.

But I guess it may not be that bad, since either people will not be baited as hard anymore and/or the general backlash will force the anime staff to truly consider what the audience wants and try to improve the quality of of the anime. If all, this could be a wake up slap for both audience and anime staff.

Overall, result aside, the battle wasn't even stellar. It was good, sure, but I felt that the second part of this match wasn't as good as the second part of Sawyer's match. It was mainly clash after clash with little strategy, which… didn't feel like finals material to me. Regardless, it set things up for the Team Flare arc quite nicely, so that's something.

Agree those statements. People need to learn what lose is. This isn't cliche heroes comics who wins against opponents all time, Pokemon are more wider than these. As for anime staffs, I can hope they wouldn't try pushing promos too hard or the casualties may beyond repaired.

 

[Almonds]

People have the right to be upset and angry about their favorite hero losing yet another league. People cry watching movies and have emotional outbursts while reading that one climax. Reacting to Ash's loss is no different. People will eventually get over it - no one needs to be told to.

 

[p0pp1i0D3f3nd3r]

I didn't say that you did. Don't put words in my mouth. That comment did come up from another user and I felt the need to include it in the in-thread warning. In the future, if you feel the need to comment on something a staff member says in a warning, talk to them privately instead of doing so in the thread and derailing the topic again.

Oh. Ok, I'm sorry for being mistaken. and I'm sorry for UNintentionally Putting words in your mouth.

I just watched a sub, and Alain's win could be set up. Malva said during her interview that when "Greninja eventually loses..." before Team Rocket question why she says that. Is that a hint that Alain was always going to win because TF tampered with it?

I'd LOVE for THAT to have been to, so that it would DISQUALIFY ALAIN'S WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > : )

 

[ii kanji]

I also only watch the leagues. At the end of the day, that's what the entire show leads up to. It's all that matters.

Dude, you haven't been paying attention.

I'm also bothered by the fact that Ash didn't seem even slightly upset over his loss.

Me too.

I just watched a sub, and Alain's win could be set up. Malva said during her interview that when "Greninja eventually loses..." before Team Rocket question why she says that. Is that a hint that Alain was always going to win because TF tampered with it?

Interesting! I am not in the camp that believes that an admission of tampering/cheating would allow Satoshi to take the title by default, but I'm definitely interested to confirm whether that was correctly subbed.

 

[Nicolas721]

A few months ago I was convinced that Ash would not win a League until the end, and my prediction was that he would come back to Top 4. But then things started to align. Sawyer was not a problem, his main rival was an undefeatable villain and his next quest could have sprunged from his champion title. It somehow made sense that Ash would win. You know the writing is terrible when you don't give a ... about Lumiose getting strangled in vines. Don't get me wrong, it looks cool and all, but more on a "I could watch this" way rather than a "The emotion continues!!!" way.

At least some good things came from it:
1)People will think it twice about claiming that XY is the best series.
2)Ash made his better league participation, making it two battles farther than his past league.

The episode itself was so-so. Bisharp vs Goodra had nice action from what I got to see. Charizard vs Greninja had nice strategies, but Ash should have changed his strategy after Charizard blocked most of his ninja attacks with Dragon Claw. I liked the structure of it. Ash should have reacted different, but to each their own I guess. The TF kick-off was nice, Zygarde is very small.

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

Which is why Ash-Greninja beating it now would make no sense. It can't be completely unbeatable god tier for the whole season then lose at the end. That would piss me off even more!

This is the exact problem though. Charizard has been in that unbeatable god tier for way too long. Its not a god though. Its a Charizard. Its two years overdue for a loss its had coming its way, though it refuses to go down. This is why I have such a problem with it winning again and barely showing a scratch after the Mega Shuriken of Death that should have been its demise.

 

[Silktree]

I don't blame people for thinking that only the league matters. Team Flare (as a collective group rather than just Lysandre, and for more than a few seconds) only appeared in three episodes in 10 months, to say nothing of their absence in the series' first two years.

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

I don't blame people for thinking that only the league matters. Team Flare (as a collective group rather than just Lysandre, and for more than a few seconds) only appeared in three episodes in 10 months, to say nothing of their absence in the series' first two years.

I feel like villains need to be introduced a lot earlier, like Team Plasma originally was going to be. Each series would be better off introducing the villains within the first 25 episodes.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

Ash-Greninja needed to be taken down. It hasn't lost since it has perfected it's form. I don't think Ash and Alain would battle again. Ash landed top 2 and should proud for going above Sinnoh and improved massively from the Unova league.

 

[Gengarzilla]

Ash-Greninja needed to be taken down. It hasn't lost since it has perfected it's form.

I don't think that's a valid point when we've only seen Mega Charizard X outright lose just once throughout a much longer run, if I'll be totally honest. Fully mastered Ash-Greninja has been around far less in comparison, of course it hadn't lost yet.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

I don't think that's a valid point when we've only seen Mega Charizard X outright lose just once throughout a much longer run , if I'll be totally honest. Fully mastered Ash-Greninja has been around far less in comparison.

Ash is the main character though so the writers probably wanted to focus more on Greninja's defeat than Charizard's.