Your controversial opinions

[Norzan]

I don't care if its popular or controversial, the Exp Share always being on is one of the worst decisions GF made in Gen 8 and no amount of logic is gonna sway me into thinking it made any sense. It only makes the experience much worse for people who don't want to use it and makes no difference for the people who always have it turned on. No one gained anything from this.

Why basic as hell options are being removed is beyond me.

 

[Phosphene]

-We should be allowed to make a Pokemon shiny through a key item, so to make them no longer rarities.

I think this might be one of the more controversial opinions here. Curious about your reasoning.

So who were they catering to when they made EXP mandatory or removed the GTS (among other features)....

I don't think prog was saying that GameFreak always listens to fans, more that they don't never listen to fans. Some features clearly show that they pay attention to feedback, such as HM removal (as late as it was) or the semi-open world part of SwSh, while they don't pay heed to fan complaints and/or think they know what's best for the game with regards to other features.

 

[prog rocker]

I think this might be one of the more controversial opinions here. Curious about your reasoning.

I don't think prog was saying that GameFreak always listens to fans, more that they don't never listen to fans. Some features clearly show that they pay attention to feedback, such as HM removal (as late as it was) or the semi-open world part of SwSh, while they don't pay heed to fan complaints and/or think they know what's best for the game with regards to other features.

And even then, some opinions are extremely contradictory, to the point that I wouldn't know what to do in those cases.

 

[Lanstar]

I think this might be one of the more controversial opinions here. Curious about your reasoning.

Simple: Shiny Pokemon incite the worst instincts of collecting and treatment of Pokemon in the fanbase.

Many people do crazy measures to get a shiny - and they are incredibly mundane and unfun: Hatching egg-after-egg, dexnav gimmicks, fishing gimmicks, wild calls for help, among others. And the only difference between shinies and regular pokemon is solely color and rarity alone - shiny and rarity for its own sake.

If we made a shiny-fying key item, we can stop the rarity of this phenomenon, and make everyone happy to control this property as as a cosmetic. Shiny-ness should stop being a rarity so we can stop discriminating normal Pokemon from the game, just because they have no special color and glittering sound.

 

[prog rocker]

Part of me thinks it would make things worse, now with people discriminating against "dyed" shinies. Hopefully, I'm dead wrong about this, but due to how the people on the internet act...

EDIT: On another note, I wouldn't mind that much, considering that I would have my blue Pokémon without relying on luck...

 

[Lanstar]

Part of me thinks it would make things worse, now with people discriminating against "dyed" shinies. Hopefully, I'm dead wrong about this, but due to how the people on the internet act...

EDIT: On another note, I wouldn't mind that much, considering that I would have my blue Pokémon without relying on luck...

That's not hard to fix: Make it next to impossible to tell if a Pokemon became shiny-fied - and allow shinies to become nonshinies once again. You could even make older existing shinies lose their luster once they get imported into both the new game and Pokemon Home/Bank - So they have to use the key item anyways to get their luster back. x)

 

[FlashFire926]

You know those are not the things I was talking about... And I'm not saying all decisions are good. I was to most others which fall enormously in the "your mileage may vary" territory. I'm not defending them against all criticisms, just the ones that are overexaggerated in my opinion.

You know there's a big problem when the other monster game fans make fun of us for things that are normal for them. And I couldn't disagree with them.

I think Game Freak does listen to feedback. They really do. I think they're talented developers. And obviously they wont be able to satisfy everyone, it's impossible.

How about them working on the stuff that is universally agreed to not being good, such as what I listed, and the SWSH online functionality which is based on LINK CODES in 2020, or making a lot of TM's into TR's to make them a one time use again? Infinite TM's were such a lifesaver QoL feature after their scarcity in gen 4. But they had to make it one time use just to force people into their gimmick raid battles.

I'm sorry, but it's my frustration on each game being "two steps forward, one step back" in these aspects. And there's not much excuse for them considering how much revenue they make off the games compared to many other game series.


As far as your point goes I do agree there's many aspects that will neve agreed upon, such as game difficulty and region design. But I dont think they should easily be let off the hook either, people's love of the series is what makes them ask more from it.

 

[Esserise]

How about them working on the stuff that is universally agreed to not being good, such as what I listed, and the SWSH online functionality which is based on LINK CODES in 2020, or making a lot of TM's into TR's to make them a one time use again? Infinite TM's were such a lifesaver QoL feature after their scarcity in gen 4. But they had to make it one time use just to force people into their gimmick raid battles.

Since when are TRs “universally agreed” to not be good? We even had a thread about them on the SwSh board and plenty of people were fine with them because they are renewable.

Besides that, “forcing people into their gimmick raid battles” is a mighty cynical way to frame it. Max Raid Battles are a major, central (and as it happens, very popular) feature of SwSh (this fandom needs a serious refresher course on the definition of “gimmick”) that need to offer some kind of desirable reward. Exp. Candies, EV Berries, and cash items are all fine, but TRs round it out by presenting something that more directly affects your battling options by giving you better moves.

And I mean... game developers are going to want players to try out their new features. That’s pretty inevitable.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

But why do you prefer Wallace?

May be just the fact that I've played Emerald more than any other Hoenn game, like I said. Plus, I think he's fit to be Champion, and is unique in being the only Champion to stick to a single type (that is their specialty, I do remember Lance).

What is it about Juan that makes him a good replacement, when he's essentially just switching one Water-type expert for another?

Kingdra is a good replacement with only one weakness at the time, and I like the idea of him being a mentor to Wallace.

And what about Steven makes him work better as a retired Champion? (I actually don't disagree that that would be a neat angle to take for a character; it reminds me a little bit of Mustard, or Alder in B2W2, but I don't think Steven is fleshed out enough in the Gen 3 games to really make it mean anything. How do his experiences as a former Champion inform his personality? That actually is an element within Mustard and Alder, and even Blue.)

He's a man who likes to travel the world. It makes sense for him to not want to be confined to the Pokémon League. And doesn't him being stronger than the acting League Champion give him justice? People praise Red because he's a retired Champion who's the strongest Trainer in two regions combined.

That volcano wasn't hollowed out by human technology, it's just a dormant caldera that filled with rainwater and was then settled upon.

And in ORAS, it was a meteor crater instead.

(Side note: Wally's asthma is worse in Petalburg than it is in Verdanturf, but we're not really told why this is - I wonder, why didn't they take the opportunity to establish some kind of factory in the nearby area that is generating pollution that makes it harder for Wally to breathe?)

It was that in Verdanturf, the winds blow the ashes and bad air from Mt. Chimney away, so the air stays clean there.

 

[Puddle]

Simple: Shiny Pokemon incite the worst instincts of collecting and treatment of Pokemon in the fanbase.

Many people do crazy measures to get a shiny - and they are incredibly mundane and unfun: Hatching egg-after-egg, dexnav gimmicks, fishing gimmicks, wild calls for help, among others. And the only difference between shinies and regular pokemon is solely color and rarity alone - shiny and rarity for its own sake.

If we made a shiny-fying key item, we can stop the rarity of this phenomenon, and make everyone happy to control this property as as a cosmetic. Shiny-ness should stop being a rarity so we can stop discriminating normal Pokemon from the game, just because they have no special color and glittering sound.

I actually wouldn't be opposed to this, as long as the item used to make Pokemon shiny (a "Shiny Star", perhas?) was single-use and very rare, a bit like the Max Mushrooms used to give Pokemon the Gigantamax factor. With new items like the Mushrooms, mints and the upcoming Ability Patch making all Pokemon equal, I don't think a shiny item is out of the question, but it could be less likely due to the fact that shininess is an aesthetic feature, rather than something that affects a Pokemon's chances in battle.

Lots of people enjoy shiny hunting, so I don't think the ability to encounter shinies in the wild should be removed, because it would be denying those people their fun. Even if there was an item that could make Pokemon shiny, there would still be people who would rather hunt for shinies themselves. I don't think there's anything morally bankrupt about encountering and battling many Pokemon in the wild to find the one you want; the problems lies with breeding, which encourages players to hatch boxes full of Pokemon and then release all the ones that aren't deemed good enough.

I said in my last post that I wouldn't want to see breeding disappear from the series. But here's a controversial idea: What if breeding were changed so that you could receive only one egg per day? It would make the experience more akin to the anime, where receiving an egg is a big event and the resulting offspring becomes a much-loved teammate. If the process of raising Pokemon continues to be streamlined, ideally with the removal of EVs, IVs and the effects of Natures (I say effects, because Natures could stick around for aesthetic value or have a difference purpose), there would be no need to hatch multiples of the same species. Every newly-hatched Pokemon would become important, no longer disposable. Pokemon breeding should be like adopting a child, not running a farm.

I think newly-hatched Pokemon should still have a chance to be shiny. But with a limit of one egg per day, it would no longer be feasible to shiny hunt this way - unless, perhaps, if a Pokemon's attributes were now generated at the moment it hatches, meaning a single egg could be soft-reset for a shiny, without any other Pokemon having to be released afterwards.

By the way, this isn't a criticism of people who like to hatch lots of eggs - I've done it myself. It's only a game, after all! But it would be nice if the games adopted a new design philosophy which better reflected the series' core values.

 

[Esserise]

-Double Battles should be the default format in-game against trainers.

Same, though I'd be fine if they just let you chose which style you'd prefer at the beginning of the game.

Simple: Shiny Pokemon incite the worst instincts of collecting and treatment of Pokemon in the fanbase.

Many people do crazy measures to get a shiny - and they are incredibly mundane and unfun: Hatching egg-after-egg, dexnav gimmicks, fishing gimmicks, wild calls for help, among others. And the only difference between shinies and regular pokemon is solely color and rarity alone - shiny and rarity for its own sake.

If we made a shiny-fying key item, we can stop the rarity of this phenomenon, and make everyone happy to control this property as as a cosmetic. Shiny-ness should stop being a rarity so we can stop discriminating normal Pokemon from the game, just because they have no special color and glittering sound.

Now this is a hot one. I sort of half-and-half agree. Having played GO for a long time, I've definitely seen the entire concept of Shininess be abused to squeeze money out of people. It is frankly astonishing how obsessed people can become with some color differences and a sparkle animation.

That said, I don't think it's really a problem in the main series, where there's no incentive for you to spend money to get a certain Shiny. It just comes down to a very tedious grind, and a lot of people enjoy the thrill of that hunt. (I've done several and I... really don't, so these days I'm content with just letting the Shiny Charm give me the very occasional surprise.) In the context of the main series games, the fact that it's just a cosmetic change is probably seen by Game Freak as a justification for having them be so rare - it's something that people who are interested in them can buckle down and strive for, at no cost to the people who would prefer not to do that, since it gives no actual advantage. Of course, I also think that Shinies have been drastically devalued anyway by the Raid Den exploit and all the free event giveaways. Hmm.

You know, I think having some device that can change a Pokémon's color would feel pretty weird and non-immersive. It almost feels like talking to the Watt Trader guy to change your biking uniform colors. It's too artificial for my taste. I think at that point, I would just get rid of the sparkle and have the Shiny coloration be a natural secondary possibility with a 50/50 chance of getting either one. Or maybe introduce a tertiary color scheme for a 33/33/33 chance, and rebrand the whole thing as "pigment variety." Maybe then we could finally get menu sprite support for all the Shiny colorations...

(Incidentally, I am reminded of that glitch in the early days of XY that produced "monochrome" Pokémon, or maybe the whole thing was a hoax, I don't remember for sure - which was thought at first to be a new counterpoint to Shinies. I'm kind of surprised that Game Freak still haven't actually introduced anything like that.)

and is unique in being the only Champion to stick to a single type (that is their specialty, I do remember Lance).

True, but I feel like this is something they try to avoid simply for difficulty reasons more than anything. Giving the final boss a glaring overspecialization in a game like Pokémon is kind of an odd design choice; shouldn't they have a diverse team in order to better counter any challenger? (I suppose unless they had a synergistic strategy designed around that type, like if Wallace used something like N's rain team. But in fairness, that's not something I would expect Game Freak in the Gen 3 era to have come up with.)

He's a man who likes to travel the world. It makes sense for him to not want to be confined to the Pokémon League. And doesn't him being stronger than the acting League Champion give him justice? People praise Red because he's a retired Champion who's the strongest Trainer in two regions combined.

I don't think it gives him justice because "he's stronger" is just a matter of raw numbers. With Red, there was context - you were battling a simulacrum of yourself from the previous game. You knew all the struggles you had to go through to get to that top spot, and now it was time to prove yourself against everything you'd accomplished before.

It was that in Verdanturf, the winds blow the ashes and bad air from Mt. Chimney away, so the air stays clean there.

Right, but geographically, this is strange because Petalburg is like directly south of Verdanturf and even further away from Mt. Chimney. So the wind and clean air stuff is an explanation for why Verdanturf is where he should go, but not an explanation for why Petalburg is so bad. The ashes from Mt. Chimney only really seem to affect Route 113.

 

[WyndonCalling]

The graphics and music are beautiful, the catching method is more fun and addictive than the traditional one, and the simplified mechanics are a breath of fresh air.

I agree that LGPE's strongest asset is the stylishness, but disagree on the catch mechanics. I found them dull and too far divorced from the battle mechanics - and worst of all, there's limited agency outside of 'throwing it better'. In the main series titles, I know that if I carefully get the health low enough and then use the right status move, it's usually a forgone conclusion.

I don't care if its popular or controversial, the Exp Share always being on is one of the worst decisions GF made in Gen 8 and no amount of logic is gonna sway me into thinking it made any sense.

I actually really like the way the Exp Share now functions - of course, more options are always better, but this implementation worked well for me. There's a fine line between making the player put in the work to get an appropriately-levelled team, and forcing them undertake pure grind with defensive species or those with limited STAB options. The real trick is getting the level curve right so that trainers are able to put up reasonable opposition against large, varied player teams that basically pay no opportunity cost for their size. I felt X and Y largely failed at this while Sword and Shield pulled it off, only falling apart towards the end of the playthrough (though it no doubt helps that I always play on 'set').

Many people do crazy measures to get a shiny - and they are incredibly mundane and unfun: Hatching egg-after-egg, dexnav gimmicks, fishing gimmicks, wild calls for help, among others. And the only difference between shinies and regular pokemon is solely color and rarity alone - shiny and rarity for its own sake.

I would have likely disagreed had you not framed it like this, but I actually find myself in agreement. When the internet was young and shinies had a certain amount of mystique to them they were an incredibly rare reward for in-game exploration, but now they're associated with hardcore grind-fests. That might not be such a problem given that people should be free to play any way they like, but it does create the sense that some of the game's best cosmetic rewards are the preserve of those with lots of time on their hands.

 

[Esserise]

The real trick is getting the level curve right so that trainers are able to put up reasonable opposition against large, varied player teams that basically pay no opportunity cost for their size. I felt X and Y largely failed at this while Sword and Shield pulled it off, only falling apart towards the end of the playthrough (though it no doubt helps that I always play on 'set').

You know, I made the switch to playing on Set a year or so ago, and after all this time, I almost feel like it slightly hurts the level curve, because it means that if you want to switch out in order to have a better matchup, then at least two of your Pokémon will be gaining 100% experience from a single opponent. You're taking on an optional disadvantage by not being able to immediately counter the opponent, but I think in exchange, it tends to make your Pokémon grow faster. Thinking about it now, it kinda makes me want to switch back - random route NPCs are never hard to beat even in Set mode, and if I'm going to be crushing them anyway, then I guess I'd rather it be through good matchups rather than over-leveling that ends up affecting the whole game.

On a related note, I think SwSh's default level curve is okay, but shout-out to IOA's Exp. Charm for completely busting it wide open. Granted, the Exp. Share in XY does the same thing to those games if you leave it on all the time, so I do think that default SwSh are much better-balanced for a permanently-on Exp. Share. Though I personally prefer XY's curve if we're comparing it with no Exp. Share versus SwSh's perma-share.

 

[Norzan]

I actually really like the way the Exp Share now functions - of course, more options are always better, but this implementation worked well for me. There's a fine line between making the player put in the work to get an appropriately-levelled team, and forcing them undertake pure grind with defensive species or those with limited STAB options. The real trick is getting the level curve right so that trainers are able to put up reasonable opposition against large, varied player teams that basically pay no opportunity cost for their size. I felt X and Y largely failed at this while Sword and Shield pulled it off, only falling apart towards the end of the playthrough (though it no doubt helps that I always play on 'set').

Except that doesn't justify the removal of the option when you CAN do that and keep the ability to turn it off. What's stopping someone from having a rotating team with the exp share on? Not being able to turn it off just funnels everyone into the same playstyle. What about the people that want to use the same team for the whole playthrough while not getting overleveled? They can't now because not a single game with this Exp. Share so far has a level curve that takes the Exp. Share into account, i always got overleveled everytime i used it, and that's using a team of six pokemon.

There's no logic in this world that justifies not being able to turn it off when you gain nothing from it. This mechanic didn't get better because you can't turn it off, it got worse. Until the level curve is actually made around the Exp. Share, not being able to turn it off is honestly gonna turn me off (unintentional) hard from the game because there's nothing more dull than one-shotting everything because you are overleveled.

I don't like grind as much as the next person, but going in the opposite direction is not better. It's just as bad.

 

[Lanstar]

That said, I don't think it's really a problem in the main series, where there's no incentive for you to spend money to get a certain Shiny. It just comes down to a very tedious grind, and a lot of people enjoy the thrill of that hunt. (I've done several and I... really don't, so these days I'm content with just letting the Shiny Charm give me the very occasional surprise.) In the context of the main series games, the fact that it's just a cosmetic change is probably seen by Game Freak as a justification for having them be so rare - it's something that people who are interested in them can buckle down and strive for, at no cost to the people who would prefer not to do that, since it gives no actual advantage. Of course, I also think that Shinies have been drastically devalued anyway by the Raid Den exploit and all the free event giveaways. Hmm.

You know, I think having some device that can change a Pokémon's color would feel pretty weird and non-immersive. It almost feels like talking to the Watt Trader guy to change your biking uniform colors. It's too artificial for my taste. I think at that point, I would just get rid of the sparkle and have the Shiny coloration be a natural secondary possibility with a 50/50 chance of getting either one. Or maybe introduce a tertiary color scheme for a 33/33/33 chance, and rebrand the whole thing as "pigment variety." Maybe then we could finally get menu sprite support for all the Shiny colorations...

Here's the thing: Games are meant to be played for fun - And shiny hunting, however you try to spin it, has rarely ever been made a fun task. Instead, it is a 'Skinner Box' task: All this dull grinding, never getting it - until it appears. Then the psychological commitment makes the appearance of the dull tasks worth doing, which makes people keeps doing it. Shinys have unintentionally created an abusive cycle to the hunters of them, framing tasks that really are stupidly tedious as 'fun', just because of the thrill of a rare cosmetic.

Also, I don't think a color change item would remove the immersion at all if done correctly. I'd make it so you get the item somewhere midgame, like when the 3rd/4th gym leader shows off a shiny Pokemon they in battle. Then they give you the key item after to defeat them, noting that only Pokemon with max happiness with their trainer can use this item. Then there after, more ordinary trainers could be seen with shiny Pokemon, denoting their true bonds and/or preference of color with them.

The only 'immersion" part removed is this so called "rarity" of such shinyness, as well as the uniqueness of it. Both areas about shinies need to be dismantled from the series, as the whole symbolism of shinies has become wrong in terms of modern gameplay. Make earning them a fun task, not an abusive Skinner Box!

 

[Esserise]

Here's the thing: Games are meant to be played for fun - And shiny hunting, however you try to spin it, has rarely ever been made a fun task. Instead, it is a 'Skinner Box' task: All this dull grinding, never getting it - until it appears. Then the psychological commitment makes the appearance of the dull tasks worth doing, which makes people keeps doing it. Shinys have unintentionally created an abusive cycle to the hunters of them, framing tasks that really are stupidly tedious as 'fun', just because of the thrill of a rare cosmetic.

Also, I don't think a color change item would remove the immersion at all if done correctly. I'd make it so you get the item somewhere midgame, like when the 3rd/4th gym leader shows off a shiny Pokemon they in battle. Then they give you the key item after to defeat them, noting that only Pokemon with max happiness with their trainer can use this item. Then there after, more ordinary trainers could be seen with shiny Pokemon, denoting their true bonds and/or preference of color with them.

The only 'immersion" part removed is this so called "rarity" of such shinyness, as well as the uniqueness of it. Both areas about shinies need to be dismantled from the series, as the whole symbolism of shinies has become wrong in terms of modern gameplay. Make earning them a fun task, not an abusive Skinner Box!

In terms of immersion, I just meant that I think it's weird to imagine a device in-universe that exists to change a Pokémon's color, as if you're dyeing them. It just makes me wonder why not go all the way and have it so that Pokémon can always come in different colors in the wild, so as to feel like a more natural phenomenon.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

True, but I feel like this is something they try to avoid simply for difficulty reasons more than anything. Giving the final boss a glaring overspecialization in a game like Pokémon is kind of an odd design choice; shouldn't they have a diverse team in order to better counter any challenger? (I suppose unless they had a synergistic strategy designed around that type, like if Wallace used something like N's rain team. But in fairness, that's not something I would expect Game Freak in the Gen 3 era to have come up with.)

I admit, specializing in one type can be crippling, but Wallace had moves that countered his weaknesses, and some of his Pokémon had secondary types that he's got more coverage.

I don't think it gives him justice because "he's stronger" is just a matter of raw numbers. With Red, there was context - you were battling a simulacrum of yourself from the previous game. You knew all the struggles you had to go through to get to that top spot, and now it was time to prove yourself against everything you'd accomplished before.

Yes. Red was an amazing post-game boss because of that, but Steven still is a great post-game boss in my eyes.

 

[swiftgallade46]

Can’t think of too many right now but I guess my most controversial opinion (unfortunately) is that Sword and Shield are fully worth what they cost (this includes the Expansion Passes). They are fun, immersive games whose lack of every Pokémon in existence does not detract from quality of gameplay. GameFreak did a terrific job with them.

That’s not to say they’re flawless or my favorite games—far from it. But they are really over-hated in my opinion. Or, at the very least, people who hate it are very outspoken.

 

[Lanstar]

In terms of immersion, I just meant that I think it's weird to imagine a device in-universe that exists to change a Pokémon's color, as if you're dyeing them. It just makes me wonder why not go all the way and have it so that Pokémon can always come in different colors in the wild, so as to feel like a more natural phenomenon.

As long as the colors are changable, why not? Maybe even make the whole "sparkle" sound optional as well - I don't need it showing off on every battle. And accessories... I want to give my dream-teamers ribbons and top hats as well.

Customization is a lovely thing - Just don't make us do absurd tasks to get them.

 

[Puddle]

Here's the thing: Games are meant to be played for fun - And shiny hunting, however you try to spin it, has rarely ever been made a fun task. Instead, it is a 'Skinner Box' task: All this dull grinding, never getting it - until it appears. Then the psychological commitment makes the appearance of the dull tasks worth doing, which makes people keeps doing it. Shinys have unintentionally created an abusive cycle to the hunters of them, framing tasks that really are stupidly tedious as 'fun', just because of the thrill of a rare cosmetic.

Come to think of it, you're right. Shiny hunters might say they're having fun, but really it's only the thrill of possibily finding a shiny that they enjoy, not the tasks themselves. I know the feeling because I've done shiny hunting myself in the past.

If a game rewards people who carry out repetitive tasks more than it rewards people who play the game as it was originally intended, then that's bad design, surely? I don't think Game Freak ever planned for the games to be played this way. Shinies were meant to be a rare surprise, not something you hunt for. IVs were never meant to be maxed out, they were just there to give each Pokemon individuality. But people started exploiting these mechanics to their advantage by playing the games in repetitive ways, and Game Freak kind of just went along with it.

I think Junichi Masuda is aware of the problem, which is why he said, when asked about the lack of breeding in Let's Go: "I'd be really sad to think that for fans, Pokémon is just hatching eggs."