Your controversial opinions

[Enzo]

Controversial opinion: I tend to not like inanimate object Pokemon, humanoid Pokemon, or Pokemon such as Mimikyu. I rarely ever use them on my team. I tend to favor more species like Luxray, Salazzle, Cinderace, Arcanine, Lucario, or Lanturn.

This is like,,, the opposite of a controversial/unpopular opinion lol.

Also, aren't both Lucario and Cinderace, u know,,, humanoid?

 

[BackSet]

mistaking Lanturn for Chandelure.

Why yes, yes I am. Whoops.

My point on the other two (or three) still stands.

 

[Phosphene]

Uh... two of those are humanoid (three of them depending on how you view salazzle) and one of them is an inanimate object.

I think they meant human-like. Cinderace and Lucario are 100% humanoid--I mean they're straight up fursona Pokémon--but they're not human-like in the same manner Throh or Machoke are. That being said, I wouldn't exactly consider that a controversial opinion considering inanimate objects and human-like Pokémon tend to be the least popular designs from what I've seen, and the Pokémon they like are all popular.

 

[BackSet]

I have the opposite opinion that inanimate object Pokemon aren't bad.

Throh, Sawk, Machamp, and their ilk suck though.

 

[GrookeyFan77]

Machamp is just a buff blue wrestler dude who fused with blue four arms.

 

[Tood]

I don't get why certain groups of people are upset that gen I got another remake in the form of LGPE. Technically, FRLG (+gen I in general) were the next games in line for a remake after RSE, so I honestly can't imagine how people never saw LGPE coming.

Refering to them as solely Kanto-pandering games also kind of bothers me too because of this. Like yeah, pandering is irritating, but people act like we weren't due for updated gen 1 releases sometime soon anyway.

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

This is like,,, the opposite of a controversial/unpopular opinion lol.

Also, aren't both Lucario and Cinderace, u know,,, humanoid?

I wouldn't call them humanoids. I mean anthro is a term that works more. Cinderace is an anthro rabbit, though lacking traits proper anthros have, such as being capable of human speech.

 

[RK9]

Refering to them as solely Kanto-pandering games also kind of bothers me too because of this. Like yeah, pandering is irritating, but people act like we weren't due for updated gen 1 releases sometime soon anyway.

I'mma be real with you.

If we get another Kanto game where Leaf/Green actually plays an active role by being like your secondary (minor) rival, I'd take it in a goddamn heartbeat.

I'm a simple man.

 

[Esserise]

This thread seems like maybe the most relevant place at the moment to post this.

I had a sudden thought today: People often blame the "bad" in-flight models (Xatu, Salamence, Tropius) on Sky Battles. But isn't it kind of presumptuous to say that Sky Battles are at fault? What if it's the other way around - what if the models were designed that way because that's how the 3D modeling team thought that's how they should be (I'm not saying they were necessarily right or wrong about that), and then someone got the idea to take advantage of all these in-flight models by designing a battle mode just for them? Because I can't help but think of Pokémon like Murkrow or Hawlucha - they definitely can fly, but clearly the animators didn't feel obligated to force them into a permanently flying pose just so that they can participate in Sky Battles (which they can't).

Essentially what I'm saying here is that maybe Sky Battles don't deserve to be levied with this particular millstone.

(That said, I still can't believe they cut them out of ORAS altogether even though Soaring opened up a very organic place for them to fit in. I am also in shock to discover that Shaymin Sky Forme cannot participate in them, while Arceus can (but only if it's holding a Sky Plate; how's that for arbitrary?))

 

[TechSkylander1518]

I don't get why certain groups of people are upset that gen I got another remake in the form of LGPE. Technically, FRLG (+gen I in general) were the next games in line for a remake after RSE, so I honestly can't imagine how people never saw LGPE coming.

That assumes that people were expecting remakes of remakes, though, which there wasn't really any reason to expect. And LGPE doesn't have the Sevii Islands, Gen 2 Pokemon, abilities, etc. like FRLG included, so I'd argue it's much more of a remake of Yellow than FRLG.

 

[Tood]

That assumes that people were expecting remakes of remakes, though, which there wasn't really any reason to expect. And LGPE doesn't have the Sevii Islands, Gen 2 Pokemon, abilities, etc. like FRLG included, so I'd argue it's much more of a remake of Yellow than FRLG.

Hence why I put gen 1 in general as well.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

Hence why I put gen 1 in general as well.

Yeah, but your argument was that people should have expected a remake because FRLG was next, not Gen 1.

 

[prog rocker]

I don't mind neither object Pokémon nor humanoid ones.

I mean actual humanoids, not anthros.

 

[Epic Spheal]

Reconnecting with one's roots can indeed be very important and meaningful, but it’s also a pretty specific experience, whereas Pokémon has an extremely wide audience. Honestly, your proposal strikes me as possibly more ethically questionable than the protagonist being a relatively blank slate, because Pokémon has always tried to create a more immersive experience in terms of the player’s relationship to their in-game avatar, and that has only expanded over the years with the addition of fashion and skin tones, as well as the deletion of references to gender (“Are you a boy or a girl?” is long gone). The goal is for you to put yourself into the story, not to have a specific culture or heritage ascribed to you when that may not match your own experiences. Should we really be put in a position of presuming to be of a heritage we’re not actually a part of? I feel like it would potentially be more offensive to go with that route rather than keeping the player totally neutral and in a position to learn about and interact with a foreign culture.

Besides that, I feel like you really have to read some extra malice into the text to arrive at a colonial narrative. The player’s just moving there. People moving to foreign countries and being welcomed is not uncommon, and I don’t think it’s inherently problematic. Their motives aren’t driven by the imperial evils that animate colonialism. Even the player becoming the first Champion is more a coincidence of timing than anything - they just happened to arrive in the year that Kukui was finishing up the establishment of the League, but we know that in prior years, the island challenge culminated in essentially the same way (a gauntlet against four Trainers to crown the island challenge champion). The difference is little more than a formality, so it’s not like the game is suggesting that this is something the locals could have never achieved themselves.

To the first bolded point, most of the player characters in Pokemon can be assumed to be from the region they start in. Gen 1, 2, 4, 5 and 8 all had player characters that can be presumed to have lived in Kanto, Johto, Sinnoh, Unova and Galar all of their lives, In fact most of those gens even give you a well established friend (or jerk rival). And with Pokemon having such a wide audience a lot of players probably don't know what it's like to live in Japan, New York or Great Britain. But they still made the choice to make the character ostensibly from the region and give them somewhat of a heritage there and it didn't have any negative effect. So why not Alola?

To the second bolded point when did I say it was an intentional colonial narrative? This is what I said:

I get the theme, but it doesn't make it good in my opinion. Especially for a region based on a state that has had a history of colonization. I don't think it was intentional but it comes off as tone-deaf to have people have not native to region dominate the story and be the drivers of change.

You mention Pokemon has a wide audience, and that's going to include people who come from backgrounds that have a history of colonization. I will speak as someone who comes from such a background, where my culture often gets shoved to the side in media with a setting ostensibly focused on my culture and the narrative be dominated by someone that's not from my culture. If you grow up seeing that, it's not a pleasant feeling and makes you feel like your stories aren't worth telling. So yeah I'm going to view the decision to make the Aether family and the player the focus but not have them be locals in a less positive light on the basis that it hits too close to home. Being tone-deaf does not always mean you're intentionally being problematic. It just means whatever you said or did may have struck a raw nerve with others that have certain experiences.

And N was a different person with a different disposition. He wasn’t someone who started with a stable family life but then wound up being psychologically smothered by his guardian. N was plucked out of the forest, then treated like a king and was well-provided for. He was told he would become a messiah. So of course he’s going to have a different and more resolute outlook from the start. N’s problem is that he can’t understand anything outside of the ultra-filtered worldview he’s been indoctrinated with - it’s kind of a given that he’s going to have a “I’m the Chosen One who will bear the burden and do what needs to be done for the betterment of the world” sort of posture. Lillie’s problem is that her treatment at the hands of Lusamine fucked her up and clouded her sense of confidence and self-assuredness. These two characters are designed to achieve very different narrative goals.

People having different dispositions doesn't really justify not giving her a chance to be more active sooner in the story. My whole point to comparing her to N was that they both have valid reasons to not want to see Pokemon hurt, both realize that's there more at stake, but only one gets a chance to be the pilot of their own story while the other gambles far too much on some random kid actually being strong enough to help her (and the fact that one who does that is female is again an example of being unintentionally tone-deaf). I'm not asking her to be a Cynthia level badass, I'm asking to see her break away from the narrative of "girls wait, boys initiate".

I was hoping to see her be more like Rapunzel from Tangled (who I think is a more realistic and likeable portrayal of the narrative Lillie was aiming for). She gave me Rapunzel vibes at the start with her rebellion and the initial freakout about Nebby being attacked on the bridge (showing the ups and downs of gaining independence after an abusive situation) but then quickly flatlined into passivity until the end (and the way she ends things in SM are particularly grating). When you consider the fact that the Pokemon world offers more resources to a child than Rapunzel's world (in that she can be independent at a far younger age and find ways to actively help herself) it doesn't give Lillie the story potential she could have had otherwise.

But he only did so after spending two-thirds of the story not doing that. Because there had to be a gradual build-up to that development and an inciting incident that spurs the change, just as there was with Lillie.

Except up until that point he didn't have a serious battle he absolutely needed to win. That battle in the Aether House was the first serious battle he had that had dire consequences. Contrast to Lillie who was in a dire situation from the start which meant she needed to come up with solutions quicker and sticks to the same thing that constantly gets herself, Nebby and others in danger.

I think we should just agree to disagree at this point. Again this is controversial opinions and I know I'm in the minority for disliking Lillie and her arc.

 

[Esserise]

To the first bolded point, most of the player characters in Pokemon can be assumed to be from the region they start in. Gen 1, 2, 4, 5 and 8 all had player characters that can be presumed to have lived in Kanto, Johto, Sinnoh, Unova and Galar all of their lives, In fact most of those gens even give you a well established friend (or jerk rival). And with Pokemon having such a wide audience a lot of players probably don't know what it's like to live in Japan, New York or Great Britain. But they still made the choice to make the character ostensibly from the region and give them somewhat of a heritage there and it didn't have any negative effect. So why not Alola?

While that's all true, I feel like Alola is still a different case because it puts a far heavier emphasis on just how different the culture there is, with a totally different view on things like Gyms, Gym Leaders, and Legendary Pokémon and how all of that is supposed to work. In the other regions, while they do borrow from existing cultures, the player's relationship with that fact is treated as being very neutral. You just happen to live there; it's not something that's focused on. But even Hoenn doesn't make much of a fuss about how different the way of life in that region is from what you're used to. Could they have done that with Alola? Perhaps, but I feel like the effect they're going for, of being introduced to something so starkly different from everything in the series before then, wouldn't be as strong. And while they could do what you said and have the character be "from" Alola but having spent no time of their life there, that's where I worry that it becomes sort of appropriating of a very specific narrative. In no way am I against that kind of story being told, but I feel like it's not my place to assume that I'm the protagonist of it. Maybe the fact that we're both finding this so thorny from either angle is an argument that they should have reconsidered their overall approach?

You mention Pokemon has a wide audience, and that's going to include people who come from backgrounds that have a history of colonization. I will speak as someone who comes from such a background, where my culture often gets shoved to the side in media with a setting ostensibly focused on my culture and the narrative be dominated by someone that's not from my culture. If you grow up seeing that, it's not a pleasant feeling and makes you feel like your stories aren't worth telling. So yeah I'm going to view the decision to make the Aether family and the player the focus but not have them be locals in a less positive light on the basis that it hits too close to home. Being tone-deaf does not always mean you're intentionally being problematic. It just means whatever you said or did may have struck a raw nerve with others that have certain experiences.

Yes, looking back, what I said on that note was very arrogant. I'm sorry.

I think we should just agree to disagree at this point. Again this is controversial opinions and I know I'm in the minority for disliking Lillie and her arc.

I mean, I do see what you're saying. I think our disagreements seem to come down to what we expect or hope to see the character and the larger story do. For me, I found all of the Aether stuff pretty interesting, so Lillie's role in that worked for me, but if I'd thought it was more intrusive, then maybe I would have similar criticisms. At any rate, I do have to admit that I sometimes wonder about what a version of the Alola games without the sci-fi plot crowbarred into it would look like.

 

[BackSet]

Not sure if this really counts as controversial but I like a lot of the stuff they did with Alola in the anime better than the games, and in my dream world the best parts of the game and anime would be combined (a combination of SM Lillie and Anime Lillie would be brilliant).

 

[prog rocker]

I prefer BDSP over Legends any day.

...I don't like open world games.

 

[Greninjaman]

...I don't like open world games.

Why?

 

[prog rocker]

Why?

Too much freedom causes me anxiety.

 

[RK9]

There's a big Charizardphobia and Charizard always gets, unfairly, singled out in stuff.

While yes, it's a popular Pokémon, so are others. Naturally, when you promote stuff, you use popular Pokémon. Likewise we have Pokémon like Pikachu, Charizard, Mewtwo, (And the region Kanto as a total) Lucario, Greninja, Incineroar, Cinderace and many others that also get more spotlight than others and yet I never hear anyone about any of those Pokémon, but as soon as a Charizard is in there "OH NO NOT CHARIZARD AGAIN! GAMEFREAK THIS IS CAUSING ME TO DIE."

Meanwhile try your hand at Digimon for a change. Royal Knights, Seven Demon Lords and Agumon everywhere. Literally everywhere. Like something else? Tough luck. Unlike Pokémon where the aforementioned get more spotlight cause they are popular but there is still plenty of room for other stuff that also gets attention (Albeit a bit less).

Tl;Dr: Yes, there's a lot of Charizard, but if you complain about Charizard, might as well start complaining about all others that also get a more fairer treatment than other Pokémon.