Your controversial opinions

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

the hate for Pikachu, I totally understand. With the other two, you have a dragon and some sort of aura dog, two cool things, but get hated because their popular, and then a cute mouse that doesn't even look like a mouse. I do admit, that my hate for Pikachu is because of it's popularity, but thats because it's EVERYWHERE.

Not gonna lie, it feels a little disingenuous to see someone be all "stop hating these popular Pokemon I like just because they're popular!" only to then turn around and go "However, this other popular Pokemon that I don't like is okay to hate over its popularity", especially with the insinuation that stereotypically cute things don't deserve as much love and praise as stereotypically cool ones, which is... why? What exactly makes a "cool" thing inherently superior to a "cute" one? This isn't a rhetorical question, I genuinely want to know the logic behind this reasoning.

Also, I can understand finding it irritating that Pikachu doesn't much resemble a mouse (personally, I've always thought that the animal Pikachu most closely resembles, regardless of its actual basis, is the chinchilla lanigera due to Pikachu's physical attributes coincidentally being a decent match: both Pikachu and chinchillas have long ears and tails, and Pikachu's tail looking like lightning could be likened to extremely stylized fur, and what do you know, chinchillas have very fluffy tails) but if anything that's actually one of its design strengths: Pikachu's design is kind of ideal for a mascot because it's basically its own unique creature yet it's very simple to draw and instantly recognizable, which is everything you'd want on a creature design that you want to make the stand-in for your whole product. I admit that I went through a period of resentment towards Pikachu during my teenage years, and even today my opinion on it is a resounding "it's alright", but I think that GameFreak made the right choice on picking it as the franchise's mascot.

Speaking of which, Pikachu is everywhere because it's the mascot of the whole franchise, so that's kind of its job. Because it's so instantly recognizable, putting it on any Pokemon merchandise is the easiest and quickest way to let everyone know "there's Pokemon content here", as even the most ignorant person out there knows that Pikachu is a Pokemon, so putting Pikachu on labels is a great way to let even the most casual of Pokemon fans buy merchandise while those not interested in Pokemon know exactly what to avoid.

Sorry if I'm coming off grumpy, but it does sort of bother me a little when fans of popular Pokemon start trashing other popular Pokemon for being popular. I mean... do you not see the irony/borderline hypocrisy here? Especially because if the most recent popularity polls are an indication, Lucario and Charizard are far more popular than Pikachu. Like the saying goes: if you live in a glass house, you shouldn't go around throwing rocks.

Pertaining as to why Charizard and Lucario specifically get hate, I have my theories on both:

• Charizard I think is mainly a victim of its fanbase's behavior. It's a popular cliché that Charizard fans are loud and obnoxious jerks who nine times out of ten put Generation I on a lofty pedestal to the point that they're willfully blind to any of its faults, or that they worship Charizard as being the bestest most powerfulest Pokemon ever who can totally oneshot every Legendary without effort and that the only reason it's not the most dominant force in Ubers because of that evil Stealth Rock, or that every other Starter ever is objectively inferior to it and anybody who likes any Starter more than Charizard is either a dumb kid or a person with bad taste. I'm sure these are huge exaggerations, and I don't think it's really fair to hate Charizard for having obnoxious fans because it's not like that's the poor dragon's fault, but I can kinda see the logic to an extent. After all, Starters by their very nature always somebody's first ever Pokemon, so even if you're someone who doesn't have any Starter on your top favorites list, chances are there'll still be one that you have a soft spot for if for no other reason than because it was your first ever partner, so seeing your baby get constantly trashed for the crime of not being a "badass fire-breathing dragon" can certainly be irritating. Heck, I myself admit that I've taken potshots at Charizard in the past for similar reasons: I happen to be someone who likes all the Kanto Starters equally, so to me it never made sense to see two of them get bashed just to glorify the third.
• Lucario's hate is harder to pin down, but I think it might be because it was rather aggressively pushed in marketing right from the word go. Most other hyper-popular Pokemon didn't start getting that until after they'd already become popular with the fandom, while Lucario started life getting extremely high billing, what with it being made the main star of a Pokemon movie to promote the then-upcoming Gen 4 (keep in mind that until then, being a new-Generation Pokemon and the star of a movie was exclusively reserved for Legendaries/Mythicals, of which Lucario is neither), so I guess that gives the impression to some people that on some level Lucario didn't really earn its popularity so much as it was just handed over to it. And it doesn't help that in subsequent Generations GameFreak has blatantly tried to replicate Lucario's success via making more and more "anthro animal" designs, most notably with the Starters, which would be more than a little annoying to fans who prefer more unorthodox designs or even just more animalistic ones.

Anyway, sorry that this got so long, but the subject of popularity and hate is kind of a fascinating one for me and I think merits a thorough discusion. So long as people can manage to keep civil, of course.

 

[skywaffles]

Sorry if I'm coming off grumpy, but it does sort of bother me a little when fans of popular Pokemon start trashing other popular Pokemon for being popular. I mean... do you not see the irony/borderline hypocrisy here? Especially because if the most recent popularity polls are an indication, Lucario and Charizard are far more popular than Pikachu. Like the saying goes: if you live in a glass house, you shouldn't go around throwing rocks.

I do know that I was being a bit of a hypocrite there, you're right. I shouldn'tve said anything about the hate for Lucario and Charizard if I myself hates a pokemon for it's popularity aswell. I just had the whole Charizard/Lucario thing on my mind and when Skalesgon said something, I thought I had to tell my opinion. I think I was just annoyed by everyone constantly hating on them, almost as much as the people who were obsessing over them.

 

[skywaffles]

a wolf Pokémon*.

Which Pokemon are you talking about? I would say that Mightyena might've been the first wolf pokemon

 

[Phosphene]

Which Pokemon are you talking about? I would say that Mightyena might've been the first wolf pokemon

Mightyena is more of a hyena. I believe they're referring to Lycanroc.

 

[Esserise]

Charizard I think is mainly a victim of its fanbase's behavior. It's a popular cliché that Charizard fans are loud and obnoxious jerks who nine times out of ten put Generation I on a lofty pedestal to the point that they're willfully blind to any of its faults, or that they worship Charizard as being the bestest most powerfulest Pokemon ever who can totally oneshot every Legendary without effort and that the only reason it's not the most dominant force in Ubers because of that evil Stealth Rock, or that every other Starter ever is objectively inferior to it and anybody who likes any Starter more than Charizard is either a dumb kid or a person with bad taste. I'm sure these are huge exaggerations, and I don't think it's really fair to hate Charizard for having obnoxious fans because it's not like that's the poor dragon's fault, but I can kinda see the logic to an extent. After all, Starters by their very nature always somebody's first ever Pokemon, so even if you're someone who doesn't have any Starter on your top favorites list, chances are there'll still be one that you have a soft spot for if for no other reason than because it was your first ever partner, so seeing your baby get constantly trashed for the crime of not being a "badass fire-breathing dragon" can certainly be irritating. Heck, I myself admit that I've taken potshots at Charizard in the past for similar reasons: I happen to be someone who likes all the Kanto Starters equally, so to me it never made sense to see two of them get bashed just to glorify the third.

Personally, the anti-Charizard sentiment I often see usually tends to cite its treatment relative to the other two Kanto Starters as the problem. When it came to Mega Evolutions, Charizard got two, while Venusaur and Blastoise only got one (and the Kalos Starters got zero). When it came to Gigantamax, Charizard got one right away and it was used as the Champion's signature Pokémon, while Venusaur and Blastoise had to wait until the DLC to get their own, and were only included in the game as part of the 35 "secret" Pokémon, with them not actually becoming available for capture until the Pokémon Day event in 2020.

Sometimes people will also mention Charizard getting to be a Ride Pokémon in Gen 7, but that's obviously less impactful than a new kind of form.

(For my part, I'm generally more put off by the Charizard bashing than I am by the Charizard exposure, although since I do like Charizard, I guess that's to be expected.)

Lucario's hate is harder to pin down, but I think it might be because it was rather aggressively pushed in marketing right from the word go. Most other hyper-popular Pokemon didn't start getting that until after they'd already become popular with the fandom, while Lucario started life getting extremely high billing, what with it being made the main star of a Pokemon movie to promote the then-upcoming Gen 4 (keep in mind that until then, being a new-Generation Pokemon and the star of a movie was exclusively reserved for Legendaries/Mythicals, of which Lucario is neither), so I guess that gives the impression to some people that on some level Lucario didn't really earn its popularity so much as it was just handed over to it. And it doesn't help that in subsequent Generations GameFreak has blatantly tried to replicate Lucario's success via making more and more "anthro animal" designs, most notably with the Starters, which would be more than a little annoying to fans who prefer more unorthodox designs or even just more animalistic ones.

In fairness, they also tried to give Zoroark a similar push and that flopped. So while the hyper-exposure undoubtedly helped, I also think that there probably just is something unique about Lucario that people tend to find appealing.

Even though Zoroark is the cooler one

 

[BackSet]

Is liking Charizard really unpopular when the reason people hate it is because it’s popular?

 

[skywaffles]

Is liking Charizard really unpopular when the reason people hate it is because it’s popular?

Thats what I was basically trying to say. But I am bad at wording things

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

In fairness, they also tried to give Zoroark a similar push and that flopped. So while the hyper-exposure undoubtedly helped, I also think that there probably just is something unique about Lucario that people tend to find appealing.

Even though Zoroark is the cooler one

If I were to make a guess, I think the reason Lucario worked is because its movie is generally agreed to be one of the better ones plotwise by fan consensus, and considering how Pokemon movies tend to be meh at best, that's certainly saying something. It's also possible that the similarities in marketing between Zoroark and Lucario were so blatant that they were just kinda off-putting. And finally there's also the fact that Zorua and Zoroark weren't initially obtainable in-game via normal means; you needed rather specific Gen 4 event Pokemon to access them, which means many players never had the chance to use them, and by extension form an attachment to them. Oh sure, B2W2 fixed that issue, but by then it was probably too little too late, as most players would have already found their favorite Gen 5 Pokemon at that point. Lucario on the other hand was obtainable in-game from the word go. Like, yeah, it was a late catch, but it was still there without needing any specific time-limited events.

I do know that I was being a bit of a hypocrite there, you're right. I shouldn'tve said anything about the hate for Lucario and Charizard if I myself hates a pokemon for it's popularity aswell. I just had the whole Charizard/Lucario thing on my mind and when Skalesgon said something, I thought I had to tell my opinion. I think I was just annoyed by everyone constantly hating on them, almost as much as the people who were obsessing over them.

It's okay. I understand. You were just annoyed at one of your favorite Pokemon getting dunked on, which is completely fair. For the record, I actually do happen to like Lucario more than Pikachu. Charizard I tend to go back and forth on, though: sometimes I like Charizard more, sometimes I like Pikachu more.

...butIwillalwayspreferRaichutoPikachu

 

[WyndonCalling]

I'm inclined to be more sympathetic towards Charizard than other popular species because it's quite a streamlined concept and design - it's a fire-breathing dragon, and not an especially spiky or overwrought one at that. Mega Charizard X is cringe-inducingly too-kewl-for-school, but both Mega Charizard Y and Gigantamax Charizard are faithful enough to the original, simple concept that they don't bother me (and to be frank, hardcore Venusaur/Blastoise fans should spare a thought for just about every other Pokémon in the franchise).

Lucario, now there's a contrived species. My actual controversial take here is that it's my least favourite Pokémon of all time; quite some feat given it's up against Garchomp and Incineroar.

 

[Nitro Indigo]

While Zoroark never caught on with Game Freak's marketing department, it's still one of the most popular Pokémon among furries, so it all worked out in the end.

 

[Esserise]

I'm inclined to be more sympathetic towards Charizard than other popular species because it's quite a streamlined concept and design - it's a fire-breathing dragon, and not an especially spiky or overwrought one at that. Mega Charizard X is cringe-inducingly too-kewl-for-school, but both Mega Charizard Y and Gigantamax Charizard are faithful enough to the original, simple concept that they don't bother me (and to frank, hardcore Venusaur/Blastoise fans should spare a thought for just about every other Pokémon in the franchise).

I like Zard X, but for me G-Max Zard is the best super-Zard 'cause it keeps the potbelly

 

[Fan of Jarrus]

I like all of Charizard's forms. Wish Lucario got a G-Max form.

 

[skywaffles]

I wish Mienshao got a mega evo, along with Magcargo and Cacturne

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

I would have liked for Tyranitar to get a G-Max form. It's THE Godzilla Pokemon after all, so if there was ever a Pokemon deserving of an alternate kaiju form, it's Tyranitar. Doubly so because Duraludon, which is rather blatantly meant to be based on Mecha-Godzilla to the point that Pokedex entries cite the two constantly clashing, got a G-Max form.

Hydreigon should have gotten a G-Max too. Because Gidorah. Golden Hydreigon ftw.

 

[prog rocker]

Mightyena is more of a hyena. I believe they're referring to Lycanroc.

Exactly. I feel Mightyena ended up ressembling more of a wolf due to making the common mistake of thinking hyenas are canines.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

It's my favorite non-Generation IV Pokémon.

But Lucario was introduced in Gen 4?

First of all, Kyogre is based on an orca, and don't say it doesn't count because it's a legendary.

I think people don't count Kyogre moreso because orcas are commonly called killer whales, and people are looking for something more like a bottlenose dolphin. While orcas might be classified as dolphins, people are looking more for the visual elements than the technical classification.

...I was trying to think of an example from canon, and I could have sworn we had a rabbit Pokemon that evolved into a hare, but I guess not. Probably remembering some fake Scorbunny evos.

 

[skywaffles]

...I was trying to think of an example from canon, and I could have sworn we had a rabbit Pokemon that evolved into a hare, but I guess not. Probably remembering some fake Scorbunny evos.

Bunnelby?

 

[swiftgallade46]

.
...I was trying to think of an example from canon, and I could have sworn we had a rabbit Pokemon that evolved into a hare, but I guess not. Probably remembering some fake Scorbunny evos.

You can always use the remora that evolves into an octopus ! Plus you might be thinking of Marill (a mouse) that evolves into Azumarill (a rabbit).

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

There's also the fact that there's been plenty of animal species that have been turned into Pokemon designs more than once, so it's not all that unreasonable for people to want dolphin representation to be more than just Kyogre.

I guess one could make an argument that Lanturn is partially based on a dolphin due to how cute it looks when compared to real anglerfish (plus the anime makes it sound like a dolphin too, I think), but I think that might be pretty debatable.

 

[zoroarctic]

My guess is that either they have other priorities or they just went with "too obvious". I mean, it took them 20 years to make a wolf Pokémon*.

*Depends on what you think about Lucario since we still don't know what an Anubian jackal is.

This is Manectric erasure!