Your controversial opinions

[Esserise]

also, I like @Puddle's idea of only being able to hatch a certain amount of eggs per day. I mean, I'm all for a breeding overhaul in general, so yeah, something like that could be used to make it more interesting.

As long as the colors are changable, why not? Maybe even make the whole "sparkle" sound optional as well - I don't need it showing off on every battle.

idk I just think dyeing animals is weird. I know this is all relative because making animals beat each other up for sport is also objectionable, but I just feel like "Pokémon just naturally vary in color somewhat" is a simpler and more immersive approach, kind of like Spinda's patterns but not so extreme (so maybe more like Alcremie and Vivillon).

Like imagine if regional variants were obtained by using some artificial adaptation gadget on a regular Rattata or Raichu instead of simply being the Pokémon world's version of peripatric speciation. Technically it wouldn't really break any of the Pokémon world's logic, but all I'm saying is I prefer the natural approach.

 

[Daren]

Come to think of it, you're right. If a game rewards people who carry out repetitive tasks more than it rewards people who play the game as it was originally intended, then that's bad design, surely? I don't think Game Freak ever planned for the games to be played this way. Shinies were meant to be a rare surprise, not something you hunt for. IVs were never meant to be maxed out, they were just there to give each Pokemon individuality. But people started exploiting these mechanics to their advantage by playing the games in repetitive ways, and Game Freak kind of just went along with it.

I think Junichi Masuda is aware of the problem, which is why he said, when asked about the lack of breeding in Let's Go: "I'd be really sad to think that for fans, Pokémon is just hatching eggs."

This is one of those things that snowballed in such a way that you can see how it happened, each individual step seeming reasonable.
IVs made your 'mon more unique (though even than I think stat experience worked just fine; I don't personally think IVs were ever needed). Than they added natures and Abilities (with increasingly more Pokémon having multiple possible abilities that could have a massive effect on how they work--a No Guard Machamp is hugely different from a Guts one).
Then Hidden Abilities were introduced.

They kept adding more and more things to make Pokémon unique from other members of their species, all of which ultimately led to the mass breeding situation where the games themes of friendship and bonding with your partners is almost humorously at odds with how you actually prepared for competitive or high end post-game facilities until literally this generation.

 

[swiftgallade46]

I think some semblance of surprise and thrill should remain in shiny hunting. Though, as an avid shiny hunter myself I do admit it can get monotonous. I do agree with the overall decision to make shinies more available as of Gen 6 onward. I think their availability is at a good place right now.

 

[Lanstar]

also, I like @Puddle's idea of only being able to hatch a certain amount of eggs per day. I mean, I'm all for a breeding overhaul in general, so yeah, something like that could be used to make it more interesting.



idk I just think dyeing animals is weird. I know this is all relative because making animals beat each other up for sport is also objectionable, but I just feel like "Pokémon just naturally vary in color somewhat" is a simpler and more immersive approach, kind of like Spinda's patterns but not so extreme (so maybe more like Alcremie and Vivillon).

Like imagine if regional variants were obtained by using some artificial adaptation gadget on a regular Rattata or Raichu instead of simply being the Pokémon world's version of peripatric speciation. Technically it wouldn't really break any of the Pokémon world's logic, but all I'm saying is I prefer the natural approach.

How about this, then...

You aren't 'dyeing' the Pokemon. You are giving them special medications that make them create such powdery sheen in their bodies that creates such colored appearance.

I.e.: For a new canon in the series: The shine part makes the color - Not the color making the shine. Think of how eating too many carrots turns your skin orange, due to their chemicals: Abnormal, but totally natural!

 

[Norzan]

They kept adding more and more things to make Pokémon unique from other members of their species, all of which ultimately led to the mass breeding situation where the games themes of friendship and bonding with your partners is almost humorously at odds with how you actually prepared for competitive or high end post-game facilities until literally this generation.

Gamefreak leaning more and more on to the competitive side of the series with each generation certainly helped with people doing mass breeding. You add a system like IVs into your game that affect stats gain, people are gonna try to max it at all costs, even if completely clashes with whatever theme that mechanic was going for.

Pokemon is like Smash Bros in that regard, it was clearly not meant to be competitive to begin with. But over time it did become like that, specially because of the introduction of mechanics that were ripe for abuse. Then the devs gave in and embraced it, but the previous mechanics they introduced that weren't meant to be taken seriously to point of competition were already in the game.

 

[prog rocker]

In terms of immersion, I just meant that I think it's weird to imagine a device in-universe that exists to change a Pokémon's color, as if you're dyeing them. It just makes me wonder why not go all the way and have it so that Pokémon can always come in different colors in the wild, so as to feel like a more natural phenomenon.

Thank you for reminding me of Stadium's weird palettes. Sincerely, I would not mind if different colored/patterned Pokémon existed aside from shinies.

 

[zoroarctic]

Dexit was NBD.

 

[Puddle]

This is one of those things that snowballed in such a way that you can see how it happened, each individual step seeming reasonable.
IVs made your 'mon more unique (though even than I think stat experience worked just fine; I don't personally think IVs were ever needed). Than they added natures and Abilities (with increasingly more Pokémon having multiple possible abilities that could have a massive effect on how they work--a No Guard Machamp is hugely different from a Guts one).
Then Hidden Abilities were introduced.

They kept adding more and more things to make Pokémon unique from other members of their species, all of which ultimately led to the mass breeding situation where the games themes of friendship and bonding with your partners is almost humorously at odds with how you actually prepared for competitive or high end post-game facilities until literally this generation.

It's strange, isn't it? Making all Pokemon unique ought to encourage the player to care about each and every one of them, and yet it somehow ended up doing the opposite.

In my hypothetical imagining of a perfect game, no individual Pokemon could ever be considered "better" or "worse" than other members of its species. Want a Crobat for your new Battle Tower team? Wander into your nearest cave, catch the first Zubat you find, and you're good to go. We're almost at this stage, but I imagine that some players would still prefer to breed a Pokemon that's "perfect" from the start, because there are so many extra things you have to do to get an "imperfect" Pokemon ready for battle.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I think the fandom's reaction to the National Dex removal is similar to how they reacted to the Gen II to III shift, where a lot of Pokémon just suddenly seemed to stop existing, as they weren't obtainable anymore. It was painful, yes, but also necessary to upgrade the games enough. Same with the National Dex removal. The total amount of Pokémon has simply risen too high for all of them to sensibly be programmed into a single pair of games.

Also, a more minor thing, but there's also the fact that that GF has, starting with Gen VII, finally started writing new Pokédex entries for old Pokémon, instead of just copy-pasting old ones, and that takes time and effort. I'm sure, or at least hopeful, that this whole controversy will pass over in time.

PS. I wasn't actually much into Pokémon during the Gen II to III transition period, but I've heard from other sources that the disconnection between the two Generations was hard to accept for many at first.

 

[Daren]

I think Dexit would probably have mostly blown over by now if Sword and Shield didn't have so many other controversies on top of it. As is I can't disagree with the complaint that Sw/Sh do not feel like full price home console RPGs in terms of content.

Edit: Ah, I think this as added later.

PS. I wasn't actually much into Pokémon during the Gen II to III transition period, but I've heard from other sources that the disconnection between the two Generations was hard to accept for many at first.

I was there. There was backlash but it was clear they were eventually coming back. If I recall correctly they were all still in the game's data, just not captureable. Colosseum and XD were made partly to help get them back into circulation, and that was probably at least part of why FR/LG were made as well.
The current situation has people worried that unpopular ones might be screwed for a very long time while ones like Pikachu are going to be in every generation.

 

[PinkIceFox]

Oh boy! All my life I've had feelings about things that go against the grain (mainly due to aspergers probably). TIME TO SHARE MY POKEMON ONES.

-Dexit was fine. For me I always play using pokemon I caught in the game (mostly because I always put myself into the world in any game I play. Why would my trainer choose to use this random pokemon thats been passed down for years like some sort of ritualistic hand-me-down between time and space?) Plus, I've played other monster raising games where you already don't get access to every monster from previous games. So basically its just Pokemon finally following suit now that they have almost 1000 critters.

-Cynthia isnt anything special. She's just like every other champion in my eyes. Plus my opinion of her was soured by "MAI WAIFU" people in ages past.

-Sword and Shield are completely fine games and aren't worse than any others in the series. People still love Red and Blue for some reason but sword and shield gotta get hated on? I played blue version as a child. It's the only game I will not play again. I prefer Leaf Green/Fire Red.

-Mythical Pokemon should not exist. Make them legendary and put them in the game as post game content or something. Then maybe I'll be interested in them. Right now I'm sitting on a bunch from the event a few years back where you could get them via a code and junk but I want to reset the game to start a nuzlocke but the impossible to get mythicals are there. I can't just throw those away even though I will never use them.

-Requiring Nintendo Online for interaction was a terrible decision. "Hey guys lets make people pay for something we've let them do for free since Gen 4."

-The metagame sucks the soul and fun out of the game in general. I wanna raise and use the pokemon I caught in the wild, not one I genetically engineered for 3000 years to get the best stats on.

-Speaking of the metagame, battle facilities give me the same hate fire in my gut. OH BOY, LET'S GIMMICK AND NOT EVEN USE MY OWN POKEMON THROUGH A BUNCH OF THEM. Rent-a-mons ahoyyyyy Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon's thing was kind of okay though. If battles against pokemon that are basically brickwalls made to frustrate you wasn't the name of the metagame I might enjoy it but- NO SCREW YOU GRASS TYPE BRICK WALL WITH INGRAIN AND DRAIN MOVES. I WILL FREAKING ROAST AND EAT YOU WHY DO YOU EXIST

-Shiny Pokemon are overrated and until gamefreak was forced to think about the shiny colors after sprites and pallet swapping code stopped being a thing in the era of 3D models, more often than not the colors chosen by wise random computer magic look stupid. They really should go back and change like 90% of old shinies.

-No generation has better designed pokemon over another generation. Gen 1 has Nidoking. Gen 1 has Seel. Gen 2 has Tyranitar. Gen 2 has Noctowl. Gen 7 has Golisopod. Gen 7 has Komala. Gen 8 has Dragapult. Gen 8 has Eiscue. Gen 1 has a ball that evolves into flipped colors ball. Gen 2 has a sunflower seed that becomes a sunflower. Gen 3 has a heart shaped 'fish'. Gen 4 has ROTOM. Gen 5 has trash bags. Gen 6 has a key ring. Gen 7 has Toucan Sam. Gen 8 has a squirrel that becomes an obese squirrel. Each one has pokemon someone likes, someone hates, and some a lot of people just find uncreative or dumb.

-Secret bases should be a permanent feature. Dunno if this is controversial but I still wanted to say it.

-Charizard wouldn't get so much 'pandering' if it wasn't apparently one of the most popular pokemon evar

-Pokemon go should have never been allowed to sync with the actual games. Just feels weird knowing someone who has a phone that can handle it, a plan that won't charge out the rear for prolonged use of data through it, the money to buy the pay to have more than others if you run out of things, and someone who lives in a location that's viable for the game style can just go out during an event and catch a ton of a special pokemon and then just put it in their game while a normal player might have to work for ages to get it. Also it makes it possible for things like "you can only gets this through having both go and pokemon home! OwO have fun gamers yaaaaay"

-The 'Who could the Masked Royal POSSIBLY BE???" jokes were never funny.

I'm sure I have more but I'm sleepy and can't think of any more right now. I need a nap.

 

[RK9]

- Instead of giving it various regular Pokémon through events or making them appear in a lot of games, I'd like it if they got something to set themselves apart. Something like Spiky-Eared Pichu (Even though it's stuck in HGSS) or stuff like the clone Pokemon (Pikachu, Charizard, Venusaur, Blastoise) should be stuff we see in the game one day. Purely because I don't think every specimen of a species looks like an exact 1:1 of each other.

- The one positive change Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee brought in from Pokémon Go was the varying sizes. Tying to my first point, I think that should definitely also be a thing. It also gives more variety to movesets/movepools if Pokemon get moves that work on weight.

- Sword and Shield were fine as games. I feel a lot of people are 'spoiled' by other franchises that aren't comparable to Pokémon and just go "I want that too for my thing!", a bit like a envious child wanting the toy that another kid has. Fire Emblem fans for as for as I know, barely complain about how stuff looks cause they remember how it used to look like. (And Three Houses literally has models clipping into walls or just not showing until you stand 2 cm in front of them.

- Shiny Pokémon mean nothing anymore. They're so easy to get nowadays it kinda lost it's worth.

 

[prog rocker]

(And Three Houses literally has models clipping into walls or just not showing until you stand 2 cm in front of them.

You know, that has always bothered me. People talk about clipping, but I have not seen a single 3D game without that. Not even modern ones.

 

[Lanstar]

-Speaking of the metagame, battle facilities give me the same hate fire in my gut. OH BOY, LET'S GIMMICK AND NOT EVEN USE MY OWN POKEMON THROUGH A BUNCH OF THEM. Rent-a-mons ahoyyyyy Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon's thing was kind of okay though. If battles against pokemon that are basically brickwalls made to frustrate you wasn't the name of the metagame I might enjoy it but- NO SCREW YOU GRASS TYPE BRICK WALL WITH INGRAIN AND DRAIN MOVES. I WILL FREAKING ROAST AND EAT YOU WHY DO YOU EXIST

I think battle facilities would be more welcomed if the IV system was completely dismantled in the games themselves. That way, I wouldn't have to worry about needing to just breed pokemon from scratch just to battle in them. Same goes with egg moves: I just need catch a Pokemon I want to battle with, raise it how I see fit, and it should always be on equal footing with the cpu players.

Other things:

-I like Delphox and Fennekin much more than Braixen. Braixen looks too much like a mix between the two and not a unique enough design - which I put in the realm of many other starter mid-evos I don't care for.

-I miss HM's. "Rental" Pokemon and accessories just don't have the same charm as having our own dream team help us out in our journeys. I want them back in the form of non-moves that we can let our Pokemon know automatically when sent to our party.

 

[Fan of Jarrus]

About Charizard. The dragon's overexposure is not bad.

 

[Esserise]

-Dexit was fine. For me I always play using pokemon I caught in the game (mostly because I always put myself into the world in any game I play. Why would my trainer choose to use this random pokemon thats been passed down for years like some sort of ritualistic hand-me-down between time and space?) Plus, I've played other monster raising games where you already don't get access to every monster from previous games. So basically its just Pokemon finally following suit now that they have almost 1000 critters.

I don't think "Dexit wasn't a problem for me personally" is really all that controversial of a take. Saying "Dexit was actively good for the series" would be a lot spicier

Sooooooo...

Dexit was actively good for the series! ...

... I say, to grab your attention, but actually intend with an extreme caveat, that I mean it in the broad sense that we can't really compare the SwSh that we have now to a parallel timeline's SwSh where they decided to commit to keeping all of the Pokémon supported while still releasing it within the same timeframe. My guess is, the result would most likely not be very pretty, and what I ultimately mean here is that I am of the opinion that if cutting Pokémon is what it takes to increase the quality of the game in other areas, then I am okay with that. Pokémon has a colossal roster of viable monsters and I don't think you literally need each and every one to be present in the game - lovely as it is when they are - to have a good game, whereas you kinda do still need everything else about the game to work correctly in order for it to be good. Nevertheless, I do still think is is very unfortunate that it came to this point, even if I do believe it was rather inevitable.

I can't just throw those away even though I will never use them.

Sure you can! Let go your earthly tether. Enter the void. Empty, and become wind.

You simply choose not to do so, because you have imbued those Mythical Pokémon with some level of sentimental value. Which, honestly, same - I've got the same pack of Mythicals sitting around in my HOME box, doing nothing but collecting digital dust. I've fallen for the same illusion of rarity and value as you, so I know what you mean.

(However, I actually did wipe out my entire Living Dex (aside from the Mythicals) a while back, because I began to feel that there was really no point in keeping all of those Pokémon if I would never be using them in any way. As long as their data is still registered in my HOME Dex, I figure that's all I need. So maybe it's just a matter of time until I do end up giving the Mythicals a purge...?)

-The metagame sucks the soul and fun out of the game in general. I wanna raise and use the pokemon I caught in the wild, not one I genetically engineered for 3000 years to get the best stats on.

Tbf, the developers do seem aware of this and have taken steps to work around it, between Hyper Training, Nature Mints, Egg Move transferring, and all of the easy EV manipulation that SwSh have made possible.

-Charizard wouldn't get so much 'pandering' if it wasn't apparently one of the most popular pokemon evar

I guess my controversial opinion on this one is that "Kanto pandering" is fine and completely understandable. I think for some reason a lot of people assume it's a kind of zero-sum game where, if Gen 1 Pokémon are getting new stuff, then it's inherently denying any focus on later-gen Pokémon, but I don't think that's necessarily the case. Even if you subtracted, for example, all of the Gen 1 Gigantamax forms from SwSh, that doesn't automatically mean we'd get just as many G-Maxes for Pokémon of later gens. It could just as well mean that we'd only have the Galar-based G-Maxes with maybe a few more for the likes of Grapploct and Frosmoth or smth to round out the missing types. Obviously the popularity of the Gen 1 Pokémon likely plays a factor in these decisions, but at the same time, perhaps the creative team simply find the Gen 1 Pokémon easier or more exciting to reimagine. And at the end of the day, it's not exactly hurting anyone.

-Pokemon go should have never been allowed to sync with the actual games. Just feels weird knowing someone who has a phone that can handle it, a plan that won't charge out the rear for prolonged use of data through it, the money to buy the pay to have more than others if you run out of things, and someone who lives in a location that's viable for the game style can just go out during an event and catch a ton of a special pokemon and then just put it in their game while a normal player might have to work for ages to get it.

I do agree that as a life-long main series player this does feel a bit strange. I don't think I'm totally against it, because it makes sense from a marketing perspective - that is to say, permitting people to send Pokémon from GO into the main series might encourage more GO players to pick up the main games. But especially in regards to Shiny and Mythical Pokémon, it does feel like a big disparity in terms of what the two play styles have to go through, and there is, as you point out, a lot more wealth- and circumstance-afforded privilege for GO players than there is in the main games.

- The one positive change Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee brought in from Pokémon Go was the varying sizes. Tying to my first point, I think that should definitely also be a thing. It also gives more variety to movesets/movepools if Pokemon get moves that work on weight.

I like the general idea here (I like just about anything that would add more variety within an individual species), and they sort of did that with the Totem Pokémon in USUM as well, although I think, as with those, there would need to be a visual indicator of what size class the specific Pokémon is at, because otherwise I think it's kind of unfair to anyone who might be using weight-based moves. In LGPE and GO (and, in fact, the Gen 3 and 4 games), there is no visual difference between a tiny Meltan and a huge Meltan - you can only tell by looking at their stat screen.

- Sword and Shield were fine as games. I feel a lot of people are 'spoiled' by other franchises that aren't comparable to Pokémon and just go "I want that too for my thing!", a bit like a envious child wanting the toy that another kid has. Fire Emblem fans for as for as I know, barely complain about how stuff looks cause they remember how it used to look like. (And Three Houses literally has models clipping into walls or just not showing until you stand 2 cm in front of them.

I think generally the justification for the complaints about Pokémon is that people expect more from a studio that manages the highest-grossing media franchise ever, although that kind of overlooks that we don't know how all of the profits are allocated between GF, Nintento, and TPC. Any given project is probably going to have a set budget, and in fact, while the main series games are by no means unsuccessful on the market, the vast majority of Pokémon's revenue apparently comes from merchandise, and I would not expect as much of that money to find its way back to GF (rather than TPC).

 

[PinkIceFox]

You simply choose not to do so, because you have imbued those Mythical Pokémon with some level of sentimental value. Which, honestly, same - I've got the same pack of Mythicals sitting around in my HOME box, doing nothing but collecting digital dust. I've fallen for the same illusion of rarity and value as you, so I know what you mean.

Well its less sentimental value and more doing that and then a while down the line someone hears me mention it and is like "OMGWTFBBQ YOU DID WHAT?!". Because part of my aspergers fuels my anxiety with a constant stream of FEAR OF OTHER PEOPLE REACTING TO ME. (Gasp, how horrifying! Well, technically it is for my poor dumb brain. >o<)

Now that you put it that way the next time I feel like doing a nuzlocke and wanna play Alpha Sapphire I'm deleting the save file out of pure spite. THEY DON'T OWN ME.

(Also I agree about dexit I am just really bad at explaining myself sometimes ahhhhh)

 

[RK9]

I like the general idea here (I like just about anything that would add more variety within an individual species), and they sort of did that with the Totem Pokémon in USUM as well, although I think, as with those, there would need to be a visual indicator of what size class the specific Pokémon is at, because otherwise I think it's kind of unfair to anyone who might be using weight-based moves. In LGPE and GO (and, in fact, the Gen 3 and 4 games), there is no visual difference between a tiny Meltan and a huge Meltan - you can only tell by looking at their stat screen.

Yeah, for USUM it works cause there's only size for the bigger sizes so you can just get away with making a bigger model, but if you go and work with multiple sizes it's a bit of a different story. I guess you could do it with a surprised text dialogue mentioning that it seems bigger or smaller than the regular size for the species but even then you have no idea how much bigger/smaller it exactly is.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Pokémon X and Y are better than what people give them credit for. Sure they could've been improved (most notably in relation to Zygarde), but overall, I think they were solid first 3D core series entries.

Like @Esserise has said, Team Flare was a villainous team that's deeper and better than most give it credit for. You can't really say attempting mass genocide with an ancient superweapon is a small thing, and Lysandre's reasons for doing it also reflect the limited resources of the real world. And Esserise also pointed out several things I hadn't personally realized before. Like how all the members join because they feel like the world's resources are limited, and yet they're the ones taking most of them for themselves.

The rivals, while not the most interesting ones in the franchise, still have their interesting sides. Each of them represents a certain aspect of a Pokémon journey. Trevor represents completing the Pokédex, Trevor represents experimenting with Pokémon moves, Shauna represents just enjoying the journey and making memories along the way, and Serena/Calem represents the battles.

The Kalos region, its history, and its music are also beautiful. Lumiose City is an amazingly big city, and we need more cities like it. The region just oozes history with places like the Tower of Mastery and Parfum Palace. And the music being awesome is no surprise. If there's one element that's praised in pretty much every Pokémon game, especially the core series ones, it's the music, regardless of the most common opinion on anything else in them.

These games are also perhaps some of the most nostalgic ones for me. They were the first core Pokémon games which I hyped for since the initial announcement, the first ones I followed in a YouTube playthrough blindly from beginning to end as it was first released, and Pokémon X was the first Pokémon game I've owned a physical copy of.

So, in conclusion, nostalgic games for me, that, while not maybe the best ones in the franchise, are still way more solid than most people give them credit for.

 

[Lanstar]

Since I see lot's of "Dexit Gooooooooooooooooooood" posts, my take:

Dexit should have been announced just after USUM were released. That way, there wouldn't have been so much incitement over it, and people wouldn't polarize over the situation. In addition, more people would then have actually scrutinize the actual gameplay of these games, rather than use Dexit as a mask for liking/disliking the games. Thus, fans could actually give clearer criticism about the games, and game freak would more likely listen to it and improve the quality of their games.

Announcing dexit the way they did was horrible, as now they made a fanbase that will both dismiss dexit and conform to whatever low standards gamefreak sets up - and the company now will most likely only listen to that echochamber now. Thus, I doubt gamefreak will ever listen to actual valid criticism of their games, as the people who more often did were either in the dissenting side of the dexit, or those that were okay with it if it really meant the quality and content of the games improved to the levels of HGSS/Platinum/BW/2. But now that they masked out those factions of the fanbase, Dexit in hindsight seems too much a political-like ruse to keep their standards as mediocre as they are now.