Mafia ZD X BMG 2019 Link’s Awakening Hydra Mafia Crossover Game Thread

[funnier6]

Final Day 1 Vote Count

thesunspear- 1 (H&S)
Lone Wolf- 1 (RR)
Scumlords and Noobs- 5 (Chillian, ZMS, sunspear, LatB, T&H)
Zinn Mask Salesman- 6 (Aflame, BLC, S&N, MNH, ddi, LW)

The people of the island were in absolute chaos today. Having another half made them stronger if they worked together, yet weaker apart. Accusations flew every which way all day ling, but finally they decided on Zinn Mask Salesman. As they gathered around both of them, they began to speak together, saying the Wind Fish would never wake, the Dream will never end, and they would all remain here forever! They opened their enormous eye as they were saying this, for some reason, and was quickly hit by half a dozen arrows from the townsfolk.

Zinn Mask Salesman was DethI The Godfather/Roleblocker

@Hydra Players @Hydra Accounts

Wake me up!

1. Aflame
2. Hydreigon & Shelgon GX
3. Chillian
4. Bok's Lovechild
5. Mafia Nursing Home
6. Lone Wolf
7. leetic and the band
8. Scumlords and Noobs
9. Tommy and Hal
10. dum dum idiots
11. Restless_Ridge
12. thesunspear

Before you go go

1. Zinn Mask Salesman- DethI, Mafia Godfather/Roleblocker

Night 1 has begun!

Please send in all actions before 9 am CDT on Tuesday, the 23rd.

 

[ZinnLav]

In my defence, I would've been saying the same things if I were Town... I really do loathe Day One...

First game as Mafia and I die on Day One lol

 

[Hydreigon & Shelgon GX]

Woah...lucky lynch there!

 

[funnier6]

Woah...lucky lynch there!

No posting at night!

 

[funnier6]

The night was windy on Koholint. Bok's Lovechild was tending to their shop, same as always. They were just giving their wares a nice polish when something hit the door. Then again. Finally, a giant monster burst into the room. Bok's Lovechild tried to keep their cool, offering to give the monster a discount, but the monster leaped and absorbed Bok's Lovechild. Nothing but shadows were left in its wake. Elsewhere, Scumlords and Noobs were floating around, feeling sorry for themselves like usual. Suddenly, they became aware of a rustling in the bushes. Peering closer, Scumlords and Noobs saw a set of sharp teeth, and that was that.

Bok's Lovechild was the Shopkeeper, the Electric Killer

Scumlords and Noobs was the Ghost, the Town Miller

Wake me up!

1. Aflame
2. Hydreigon & Shelgon GX
3. Chillian
4. Mafia Nursing Home
5. Lone Wolf
6. leetic and the band
7. Tommy and Hal
8. dum dum idiots
9. Restless_Ridge
10. thesunspear

Before you go go

1. Zinn Mask Salesman- DethI, Mafia Godfather/Roleblocker
2. Bok's Lovechild- Shopkeeper, the Electric Killer
3. Scumlords and Noobs- Ghost, the Town Miller

@Hydra Players @Hydra Accounts
Day 2 has begun! With 10 alive it takes 6 to reach majority. This day may have to be extended because I will not be available at this time Friday. Assuming Tristan will not be available either the day will be extended nine hours to end at 6 pm on Friday the 26th.

 

[Greymon]

Scumlords and Noobs- Ghost, the Town Miller

Well, at least we don't waste a day phase lynching them anymore.

I think I'm gonna take a look back at both Aflame and T&H tomorrow after that whole thing late last phase. I say tomorrow because it's midnight and I can't be screwed looking at this tonight.

 

[Greymon]

Or who knows, my other head might pop in and say something. I don't claim to know what he plans to do.

 

[Scumlords and Noobs]

Holly wolly. Can't say I wasn't expecting that. Kinda sad I can not contribute though because I was struck by a sudden enlightment today at morning.
Why the best ideas always come to mind when you are dead?!??!

Good luck, Townies. I can't blame you for suspecting me, something weird was going on with my other head and I wasn't exactly sure how to fix that. My lack of experience hurts. Good luck!

Spoiler

View: https://youtu.be/NoAzpa1x7jU

 

[Paul and the band]

alright lone_wolf so you're town

 

[Hydreigon & Shelgon GX]

I honestly already had a feeling S&N was Town. Since early Day 1, to be more precise. However, I'm not saying why until Endgame.

 

[Mafia Nursing Home]

I only saw the pages of T&H/Aflame back-and-forth after phase update happened, but with the power of hindsight, it is not a good look for Tommy and Hal. I'd almost say it was too obvious scum to come in so late after not having many memorable posts before that and then try to push the Scumlords and Noobs wagon when the votes were tight, but ZMS was part roleblocker, and I could see where mafia would want to hold on to that ability. There was a tie from this vote IIRC up until Lone Wolf tipped the votes toward Zinn Mask Salesman.

There's also this from earlier in D1:

I think both them and lonewolf have a good chance of flipping scum. The scumlords people may be incoherent, but the self vote still seems extremely like giving up scum to me. When they skip up like that I think it's hard to justify anything the other head does tbh.

As D1 went on, I think that Lone Wolf started to look much better, particularly coming in late here with:

As it is, I'm not comfortable with a coin flip, especially if one option is S&N, who both of my heads have a good opinion on. I know my other head wasn't a fan of lynching ZMS, but I've been on the "lynch them" side for a while now, and I personally don't want to see S&N go.
Unovte (pretty sure we didn't have one anyway, but never hurts to be sure)
Vote: ZinnMaskSalesman

that sealed ZMS's fate, while also reaffirming their belief of S&N as town (and doing so further after this, standing up for the miller claim, which I fully understand their rationale on given Bulba's site culture).

That Tommy and Hal jumped from Lone Wolf (who I'm leaning town on now) to Scumlords and Noobs so late in what could easily be seen as a last-ditch effort to save Zinn Mask Salesman and maybe leave us with no flip info due to a no lynch makes me very suspicious of that slot, especially given how long they held that Lone Wolf vote despite noting all the while that they found S&N's self-vote super scummy and that was a viable wagon the entire time that they could have been on prior to near phase end.

VOTE: Tommy and Hal

Also, on a sort-of related note, I'm not digging the way Hydreigon & Shelgon GX kept that vote on Sunspear and didn't move it to a wagon that mattered, especially when the votes were pretty tight for a decent period of time. It leaves us with little concrete of their thoughts on the dead players so far, and that may have been on purpose since the slot seemed uninterested in engaging with the thread and any of the main suspects after making up their mind on Sunspear.

 

[Mafia Nursing Home]

I honestly already had a feeling S&N was Town. Since early Day 1, to be more precise. However, I'm not saying why until Endgame.

If this was the case, why didn't you do more to try to save them in D1 when S&N was in real danger for most of it? Instead of leaving a throwaway vote on a player who was very unlikely to be lynched, you could have joined an opposing wagon.

 

[Hydreigon & Shelgon GX]

If this was the case, why didn't you do more to try to save them in D1 when S&N was in real danger for most of it? Instead of leaving a throwaway vote on a player who was very unlikely to be lynched, you could have joined an opposing wagon.

While it made S&N lean Town in this head's eyes, I will admit I wasn't 100% certain.

 

[Paul and the band]

I'm surprised that many people see the self-voting as scummy.
I think it's probably a town thing. But it's a terrible move that warrants a lynch (even if only to discourage the actual maffiosi from doing the same just because it works).
Nonetheless, I am more convinced that ZMS is scum. It seems that the Scumlord lynch is gonna go through, which is "okay" but a ZMS lynch would be even better!

Aflame is town. Sacrificing a teammate when there is an easy mislynch available would make no sense for scum.

 

[Aflame]

Snake here, you still haven't answered my question, instead you are tunnelling on sunspear to an extent where we haven't had any recent reads on other players. So I'll ask again who else do you find suspicious?

Still waiting @Hydreigon & Shelgon GX for your other reads apart from your scrum read on sunspear, and I'll know you guys have been active after this was asked.

 

[Aflame]

I honestly already had a feeling S&N was Town. Since early Day 1, to be more precise. However, I'm not saying why until Endgame.

A bit late to mention this though...

I only saw the pages of T&H/Aflame back-and-forth after phase update happened, but with the power of hindsight, it is not a good look for Tommy and Hal. I'd almost say it was too obvious scum to come in so late after not having many memorable posts before that and then try to push the Scumlords and Noobs wagon when the votes were tight, but ZMS was part roleblocker, and I could see where mafia would want to hold on to that ability. There was a tie from this vote IIRC up until Lone Wolf tipped the votes toward Zinn Mask Salesman.

That Tommy and Hal jumped from Lone Wolf (who I'm leaning town on now) to Scumlords and Noobs so late in what could easily be seen as a last-ditch effort to save Zinn Mask Salesman and maybe leave us with no flip info due to a no lynch makes me very suspicious of that slot, especially given how long they held that Lone Wolf vote despite noting all the while that they found S&N's self-vote super scummy and that was a viable wagon the entire time that they could have been on prior to near phase end.

VOTE: Tommy and Hal

Also, on a sort-of related note, I'm not digging the way Hydreigon & Shelgon GX kept that vote on Sunspear and didn't move it to a wagon that mattered, especially when the votes were pretty tight for a decent period of time. It leaves us with little concrete of their thoughts on the dead players so far, and that may have been on purpose since the slot seemed uninterested in engaging with the thread and any of the main suspects after making up their mind on Sunspear.

Yes, I fully agree. Now that ZMS flipped godfather/roleblocker, T&H certainly looks most scummy. H&S’s behaviour is also a bit edgy. I do want to add that the same counts for RR, though. RR was active till the end but kept his vote on an irrelevant wagon.

@Hydreigon & Shelgon GX @Restless_Ridge why did you guys keep your votes?

Currently, T&H tops my scumlist. Followed (with a gap) by H&S, possibly RR and also DDI.

The fact that we managed to lynch the godfather means one of two things: either the mafia didn’t really help much to keep him alive (then their scum colleagues are probably somewhat less active (like DDI), or they DID try to save him, but not directly (like how T&H voted for S&N last minute, how H&S and RR kept their votes on other obviously irrelevant wagons)

 

[Aflame]

@Max1996, you're online now, you want to answer some questions instead of avoiding them?

 

[Hydreigon & Shelgon GX]

Hey y’all, here I am! Sorry I was absent so much in the last half of D1.

Mega is reaaaaly busy, huh?

I reaaaally was!

He hasn't come on at all today. I'm getting a bit worried now...

D’aww, I’m touched. No reason to worry.
Preparing for and subsequently celebrating Easter/my brother’s birthday took a lot of my time. Holy heck, all those pages to catch up on...anyways, I’d like to express my satisfaction in how the lynch turned out! But R.I.P. S&N. I’ll admit that I was seriously Town reading Bok though. now excuse me while I delete the parts of this post I prepared in advance about why I thought this.

But then again, that's just our usuall Max. Once Mega comes, he's gonna make one hell of a long post(s).

Oh, you weren’t kidding.
I’ll be watching out for any defenses of Zinn Mask Salesman from D1 while reading back, as well as ZMS’ assessments of others.

After the possibility of a lie detector has been brought up, you refrain from answering this question. Of course on one would say they are scum, but by avoiding answering the question you are also avoiding being checked by the potential lie detector. I find this to be quite suspicious. I've got my eye on your heads.

Dum dum, though not the first to vote ZMS, were the first to call out ZMS for this, which strengthens my Town read on them. Kudos, ya dum dums!

He made his comment in light of the majority vote/ super majority vote discussion. For a super majority, we may need about 10 of all 13 votes to be able to lynch someone. He argued that this would be a good thing, for the extra time it would give. I argued that this was a bad thing, because it is a threshold we would never reach. Besides, I have never yet experienced that a normal majority would be too low of a threshold to facilitate a proper discussion. I don’t believe the town can benefit from a supermajority voting rule.

The point is that reaching such a threshold is not more important than having time to discuss things, and arguing against an easier-to-trigger hammer (or any hammer at all) isn’t scummy.

I haven't been posting because it's day one and you can only get so far by saying "that person posts funny"

Regarding Aflame's reads, active = town, not active = mafia? Nice logic, I've seen plenty of super active Mafia, that end up becoming claimed as undeniable town because they took control of reads and the like, and I've seen plenty of inactive town that fail at their jobs and skip night actions, it takes both.

Otherwise I don't really have anything else to say, there's nothing interesting going on until the next day when people have thrown some night actions around and we can actually comment on more substantial information.

I've just seen nothing but shade being thrown around.
~Zinn

As a general point, the second paragraph makes sense to me. But knowing now that Zinn was Mafia makes me wonder whether the fact that Aflame was the only person they critiqued with this post means that Aflame is actually Town. Actually, reading forward, this isn’t the only time ZMS throws shade on Aflame, which occurs more after Aflame calls out ZMS here:

Officer here, I can see why the reads list is heavily realiant on activity, but I think koki brings good points up about people, I can see why ZMS replied to a read that put them as scum but I'm slightly suspicious that they have no thoughts on the rest of the game, and might be deadweight for the rest of this phrase since they feel as though nothing interesting is going on feels like a cop out.

So, I'm super leary of Kokirion, because like Petter, as scum he maintains his cool throughout the thread making him hard to scum read. Not only that, he is super manipulative as scum. So my trust with him is shaky starting out.

^ Koki is one of Aflame’s heads, so there’s an instance of the continued shade thrown on them by ZMS.

Realistically I am not gonna wallpost because they are pretty anti-town and there is no reason to be anti-town

This bit from T&H strikes me as odd. Not just for calling wall posts inherently anti-Town, but because it looks like they’re basically saying they’re going to avoid making long posts for the sake of not looking scummy. Yes, image is important for any alignment of player, but when trying not to look scummy takes priority over doing something that could be helpful, that makes me leery of you. Could this also mean that T&H is afraid that by making longer posts, they’ll have a greater chance of scumslipping? It’s something to think about.

I am not sure if you are misunderstanding or misrepping me, however that is not the problem I had with you. The problem was you attempting to create a towncore way too early consistently of at least one player that I don't think you could have formed a genuine read on (nuxl) because he wasn't even online sober at that point. It seems ungenuine as if you were trying to pocket good players.

Speaking of which are the retirement home players good?

I will concede, however, I like their calling out of spear’s premature “Town core” here. (Speaking of, spear, it’s not so much acknowledging that you’re Town [if you even are Town] in the thread that people can see as suspicious, but the fact that placing yourself in a “Town core” suggests that the other players should automatically make that assumption.) So maybe it’s not that T&H have done anything inherently scummy, just that I personally find their aversion to wallposts completely absurd, and for that reason their posts about that felt off to me.

What does this actually have to do with anything? That's just discussing the game mechanics. Thoughts on day length doesn't make anyone more or less scummy

Agree with this calling out of sunspear’s weird supposed attempt at generating activity.

Sure. I'm thinking about voting either Scumlords and Noobs, and if I do make that vote I'll go more in depth. I didn't like the vibe they were giving off early on, is the main reason. But I'm willing to see how the game progresses.

So ZMS “suspected,” and later voted, S&N when challenged...makes me think they might have been trying to go for an understandable but easy mislynch.

I'd just like everyone to know that each and every time you post ten words in six posts back to back you kill a piece of my soul.

Lol, you and I both, host.

I'm inclined to vote for anyone that's made three short posts in a row that could've simply compiled it all into one message just so I don't have to keep dealing with a whole page with two Hydra's posting several posts in a row

Heck, you’re dead scum, and I feel ya here. The frustration is real!!

The reason I dislike the tiny posts so much is because it just makes reading the thread hell. You’re putting things in separate posts that could easily be in the same one. I can understand if it’s some kind of back-and-forth conversation trying to solve things, but when it’s just the one account making half a dozen posts in a row I just have to wonder “why”? It makes sorting through your posts an annoyance so I basically need to condense my reads on you into general opinions for the sake of my own sanity. It’s artificially bloating the page count and making it harder than it needs to be to sort and read through the thread. Especially when so many of them seem to be pointless comments that don’t contribute to the thread at all.

Maybe it’s the fact that I was gone for a like day that was compounding my frustration with all the tiny, numerous shitposts I had to suffer through, but I srsly cannot stress my agreement enough. Something should really be done about thi—

Hey everyone, I just wanted to jump in because there have been some complaints regarding posting quality here. From now on, I would like to ask that all personal conversations that aren't to do with the game stay outside of this thread. Please try to limit posts in this thread to game-related content and avoid making spam posts if you can.

OH MY GOD, THANK YOU.

As a player from Bulba, I see this reaction all the time from frustrated town. My one concern though, is that this doesn't seem to flow naturally with the other posts. I don't really see any major signs of frustration being expressed, which is typical in town implosions, that makes this look awkward and unnatural in context.

That is an interesting point, not sure it makes them scum but good to keep in mind.

Again, if you're reading them as noob Town, then why are you voting for them? The post earlier really didn't clarify this either.

I agree with the thought behind this post, Aflame placing the vote on S&N while saying they looked like newbie Town and they were suspecting ZMS was pretty weird and not exactly justified by their explanation.

Vote: Zinn Mask Salesman

But this is the starting vote for the Zinn wagon, huh? And then they continued to push lynching ZMS over the “okay” Noobs wagon. Makes it that much harder to see Aflame as scum in retrospect.

Saying "fluff" 50 times doesn't count as fluff eh

Tbh this post bothers me. Bok had just done a PBP of Restless, who yes, has been pretty guilty of fluffposting half the time, and Sunspear tries to turn it around like Bok’s note for each fluffpost is fluff itself. Looks like a flawed attempt at a redirection of attention/shade on Bok that doesn’t sit right with me. Heck, if either Ridge or Sunspear turn up Mafia at any point, I figure the two could be scumbuds and suggest we look more closely at the other one.

You have to unvote before voting again on this forum, which honestly is dumb in the absence of a vote count bot

Why would I answer your dumb questions if you won't answer mine though?

Y’all should join a game hosted by me sometime, I don’t require unvoting to change votes!
Oh yeah, and refusing to answer questions (unless it’s for denying the scum info they could easily use against us) isn’t very helpful for the Town, even if the other person did it first. Also, I may have missed what you’re referring to while skimming this big-ass thread but when did Bok do that?

I feel no need to quote the exact posts here, but T&H’s suspicion/voting of Lone_Wolf seems unjustified to me. Meanwhile, Mafia Nursing Home’s vote change to the Zinn wagon helped pivot our lynch in the favorable direction we all saw it go in, so I feel like MNH gets some Town points for that one. LatB’s voting behavior I’m iffy on, it seems they were testing the waters with other, less popular wagons and then settled on voting S&N over ZMS. Not sure if the pushes were genuine or attempts to save ZMS.

Here is the vote. I guess they caught me slipping about wolfchat!

Or maybe I suspected you for the actual reasons I gave in the post that you quoted, which this joke of yours seems to continue the trend of dismissing entirely.

Do you guys still think that thesunspear is the most vote-worthy player here as of now?

I know this was asked earlier, and I can’t speak for how Max feels about Sunspear right now, buuut honestly? Reading through the thread, I’m mot feeling any better about them.

Seems to have TMI regarding S&N, and has yet to respond to my allegation

I don’t understand this. I also noticed earlier T&H talking with Ridge about LW supposedly having too much info about S&N, but where exactly did this idea come from? Could one of those three players clarify this?

I haven't read much yet, moe, but I think we should lynch dumb dumb idiots

Lg is really, really different to me

Slumlords and noobs is weird enough to die too tho

Especially in light of how the lynch turned out (granted, the lynch obviously happened after these posts), I’m personally in disagreement with these reads. Imo, dum dum has appeared very logical and provocative with their questions (or at least one of their heads has, I guess?)

You're less bubbly. I'm laughing/enjoying your posts less. Might be the strain of rolling scum, idk tho. It's weird and not what I expected at ll

I wouldn’t call this a reason to scumread them considering their level of contribution, although I am curious if anyone else from ZD can back up this claim about that particular head of dum dum’s meta, just so I can know whether or not spear is just pulling a scum read out of their ass here.

nahh i'm just sad bc i'm single

This is another post by DDI that I can seriously understand and relate to—wait what do you mean it’s not game-related content? Nevermind!!

I would rather be confident and wrong than hesitant and right

Cute justification for prematurely considering unconfirmed people Town

this feels like a posture-y post @Tommy and Hal

A...wut? I don’t understand this enough to comment on it.

i dont actually townread ZMS but their wagon built waaaaaay tooooo quickly with questionable votes from questionable people but maybe it's another fenrir situation hal @Tommy and Hal

A sorta half-hearted defense...thing about ZMS. Weeeiiird.

how is that dangerous? why are reads dangerous on d1?

Not reads, but acting like players are confirmed Town when they’re not. As you subsequently mentioned, yes reads can change (even my top Town reads now I could turn on later if I have a good reason!), but calling unconfirmed people a “Town core” seems to me the opposite of being open-minded towards the possibility that they’re scum. That’s how it comes across to me.

"Scumslip" is when scum accidentally reveals that they know more than they're supposed to, which I think was the reason S&H suspected sunspear

Wait, do you think that’s my reasoning? When did I mention an actual “slip?” Because I’m pretty sure that “scumslip” part came from a dodgy joke post made by Sunspear themself, which I have quoted somewhere higher up in this post.

@Zinn Mask Salesman @ZinnLav @Spiritual Mask Salesman defend yo self

Chillian held their position on wanting to lynch the Noobs, then posted this to try and get ZMS to defend themselves. Not instascum but it’s noteworthy considering the flip.

I don't think I support lynching ZMS, that response to votes felt more pure than not

Hm.

Someyhing to consider- I do not want any kind of investigative or blocking actions to go toward that slot tbh, feels like a waste

Why did you say this about S&N, especially when you were scumreading them?

I'm Miller.

Oh yeah, this was a legitimate reason to not waste a Cop check on them, spear, but do tell me what yours was.

Miller is neg utility for town and should be lynched D1 even if there are no ccs in my experience?

Just...excuse me, what? Why?? What is the Town motivation for intentionally lynching a Miller??

Lmao, I heard millers are told that they are millers here, guess I forgot. That's v silly imo.

We should kill that guy.

I actually agree with you there

Oh for the love of...no, just no. Please tell me what I think happened to S&N didn’t happen...

It's too good a mafia fakeclaim if you don't auto lynch them on claim.

The fact that a Mafioso can rarely pull off a successful Miller fakeclaim here already makes it a bad option for them. Lynching someone who is likely the Miller would be shooting ourselves in the foot. Not that S&N is alive to vouch for now, like when I first started writing my response.

So I'll ask again who else do you find suspicious?

Hmm, besides spear, I have my suspicions on Ridge, T&H, and maybe LatB to an extent. They’ve all done some things that seem contributive but others that strike me as suspicious. Spear definitely hasn’t wowed me so far, and the T&H vote looks like it could be promising.

vote: Tommy & Hal

 

[thesunspear]

Could this also mean that T&H is afraid that by making longer posts, they’ll have a greater chance of scumslipping? It’s something to think about.

Beautiful, I'm saving this for later
@Restless_Ridge something to think about :^)

 

[thesunspear]

I only saw the pages of T&H/Aflame back-and-forth after phase update happened, but with the power of hindsight, it is not a good look for Tommy and Hal. I'd almost say it was too obvious scum to come in so late after not having many memorable posts before that and then try to push the Scumlords and Noobs wagon when the votes were tight, but ZMS was part roleblocker, and I could see where mafia would want to hold on to that ability. There was a tie from this vote IIRC up until Lone Wolf tipped the votes toward Zinn Mask Salesman.

There's also this from earlier in D1:

As D1 went on, I think that Lone Wolf started to look much better, particularly coming in late here with:

that sealed ZMS's fate, while also reaffirming their belief of S&N as town (and doing so further after this, standing up for the miller claim, which I fully understand their rationale on given Bulba's site culture).

That Tommy and Hal jumped from Lone Wolf (who I'm leaning town on now) to Scumlords and Noobs so late in what could easily be seen as a last-ditch effort to save Zinn Mask Salesman and maybe leave us with no flip info due to a no lynch makes me very suspicious of that slot, especially given how long they held that Lone Wolf vote despite noting all the while that they found S&N's self-vote super scummy and that was a viable wagon the entire time that they could have been on prior to near phase end.

VOTE: Tommy and Hal

Also, on a sort-of related note, I'm not digging the way Hydreigon & Shelgon GX kept that vote on Sunspear and didn't move it to a wagon that mattered, especially when the votes were pretty tight for a decent period of time. It leaves us with little concrete of their thoughts on the dead players so far, and that may have been on purpose since the slot seemed uninterested in engaging with the thread and any of the main suspects after making up their mind on Sunspear.

I completely disagree; I think T&H look much better than aflame coming out of that little eod spat. Aflame didn't really have a case and was just kinda spewing nonsense. They look a lot better for being an early vote on the wagon though so I'm not touching either for now