Mafia Holiday Mafia 2016 - Endgame: Krampusnacht (Mafia and Indep Victory) 7/1/17

[Elementar]

This is very interesting.

Now, no one really suspected FA until DB cast this whole PP suspicion thing onto them. To me, this really feels like a desperate last ditch attempt to transfer suspicion onto FA for no reason behaviour wise. It's based on predictions and assumptions of the games setup, and truly believing every claim. Backup cop seems too good to be true and throwing in the idea of being roleblocked straightaway gives them an excuse to backtrack. I'm more happy with a DB lynch than jd.

 

[HumanDawn]

@jdthebud why don't you vote DrumBeats?

 

[DarthWolf]

@jdthebud why don't you vote DrumBeats?

Probably to prevent a tie breaker, he probably wants someone to change.

 

[HumanDawn]

Probably to prevent a tie breaker, he probably wants someone to change.

It'd be better to make the tie to force somebody to break it.

 

[jdthebud]

This is very interesting.

Now, no one really suspected FA until DB cast this whole PP suspicion thing onto them. To me, this really feels like a desperate last ditch attempt to transfer suspicion onto FA for no reason behaviour wise. It's based on predictions and assumptions of the games setup, and truly believing every claim. Backup cop seems too good to be true and throwing in the idea of being roleblocked straightaway gives them an excuse to backtrack. I'm more happy with a DB lynch than jd.

Strangely though, FA is actually defending DB in this recent post (bolded for reference):

I will get to it, I promise! Just still busy around the house since it's always hectic with relatives over and I just hop on the laptop to check out this game when I can... AND I got a PS4 at Christmas and when I have time I've been playing on that (no FFXV though, but Type-0 and WoFF and also some grinding on Gundam Battle Operation Next)

However, in regards to the PP all still being alive (since that was what this was in reference to), honestly at this point I think we're all on the same team here. Human has been copchecked and barring being the godfather has to be town, WolfOwl claimed indep and I'm not seeing anything that hints at her having a scum-aligned agenda. If she had never claimed indep I'd probably just assume she was town right now. DrumBeats I have never quite understood the case on him? Like I said before, his questioning of Max was understandable (and keep in mind that DB has never played with Max before either) and other than that the case seems to be built on a) his early D1 vote when nothing was really going on anyway and b) the claim now. I remember the ol' backup cop/doc being fairly popular as a fake claim a long time ago here, but DrumBeats's reaction to it being outed comes across to me as him being legitimately irritated at essentially the loss of his ability being any use most likely.

Meanwhile, on the other hand we've got jd who hasn't really given us an adequate defense nor done much of anything period. His actions feel like the epitome of blending in and laying low. I think we would've been in a better situation now had the jd lynch gone through on D2, and if he's scum then that probably means that WolfOwl, DrumBeats, and Max are town based on interactions/votes, and looking closely at some of the inactive/mostly inactive players would be my guess at at least one of his scumbuddies. If he's town then I'd maybe start to be concerned about DB or Max (though WolfOwl I don't think is an issue either way and I'd be shocked if she wasn't telling the truth about her role, and DB and Max I don't think could be scum together). So basically imo, jd seems like the best lynch we can make for scum potential and information.

Okay, this feels really reach-y. Most people are going to assume that there's a roleblocker somewhere in any given role madness game, and most frequently they are scum-aligned. Even if he hadn't brought it up, I'm sure a decent chunk of us would've thought it anyway and I don't get the point of pointing this out in your post as if it's scummy?

also I have to reread the thread later because I kinda just skimmed the last handful of pages, I have no shame in admitting that lol but from what I can tell jd still seems like the most scummy

I guess I will tie the votes for now though, if only because I know I'm town.

[Vote] DrumBeats

 

[jdthebud]

Whoops, forgot to unvote.

[Unvote] WolfOwl
[Vote] DrumBeats

 

[HumanDawn]

VOTE: DrumBeats

Just in case the role that made me Voteless can change who it makes Voteless during the Day. I'm sorry DrumBeats if you're Town but from the information I know it seems unlikely to me there would be a backup Cop.

 

[jdthebud]

Well, who is scum if DB is town?

 

[HumanDawn]

Well, who is scum if DB is town?

I can't tell you.

 

[Midorikawa]

No what?

Probably the fact that I won't be sharing his claim with you. It's unnecessary for you to know. If you trust I'm town aligned then trust what I'm saying like we've all been doing with you.

If you think I'm scum, then lynch me.


As for FA. I do not believe that her not contacting Human makes her scum.

 

[HumanDawn]

Probably the fact that I won't be sharing his claim with you. It's unnecessary for you to know. If you trust I'm town aligned then trust what I'm saying like we've all been doing with you.

How can you deem it unnecessary when it could lead to a counterclaim and finding Mafia from it? What exactly makes it so unnecessary? I'd like to trust you but with holding what could potentially be game solving information, which I'm sure is what the Town would want, is anti-Town. I know you're Independent but would you rather Town loses and for us to say, "Damn, if only we had Hellcrow's claim...!".

 

[HumanDawn]

Why would a Town player claim to an Independent and not a Cop checked player?

 

[Midorikawa]

How can you deem it unnecessary when it could lead to a counterclaim and finding Mafia from it? What exactly makes it so unnecessary? I'd like to trust you but with holding what could potentially be game solving information, which I'm sure is what the Town would want, is anti-Town. I know you're Independent but would you rather Town loses and for us to say, "Damn, if only we had Hellcrow's claim...!".

Or maybe I'm positive there won't be a counterclaim to his, and well he just trusted this indep more than you and with good reason.

 

[Midorikawa]

I can't tell you.

You're expecting me to give you all the information in the world so you can make all the decisions but I don't like follow the leader.it doesn't end well. And you aren't giving us any information. Instead you're replying like this. Piko is copchecked too. Piko knows who the cop is too. You're not a special snowflake, you just were active when LG wasn't.

 

[HumanDawn]

Or maybe I'm positive there won't be a counterclaim to his, and well he just trusted this indep more than you and with good reason.

... And maybe he's Mafia and is tricking you? All claims are necessary, and if he trusts and Independent more than a Cop checked player then there has to be some really weird play going around. Am I the only one who sees what's fishy about that? If you were in my position, would you let the same excuses you're telling me fly by like as if they were nothing?

You're expecting me to give you all the information in the world so you can make all the decisions but I don't like follow the leader.it doesn't end well. And you aren't giving us any information. Instead you're replying like this. Piko is copchecked too. Piko knows who the cop is too. You're not a special snowflake, you just were active when LG wasn't.

Wow, that escalated fast and is... going completely nowhere. I only asked for one thing, and you're getting overly defensive with calling me a special snowflake for wanting one claim for following how I usually play my game as Town when I'm trusted. You're already assuming that I'm going to do some decision with the claim when I may also do none. Why would I give the information? Yes, it might be wrong, and you might disagree, and you may be right, but that's just how the game goes. How is it any different than when you said that you doubted that Zexy was telling the truth of his Commuter claim in Planet Mafia because you were Bulletproof?

You were in a leadership position, didn't give any information, but people trusted your judgement without complaints and followed. If I was in that game I wouldn't have called you a special snowflake or asked you why you weren't saying why you doubted his claim. Yes, Piko is cop checked too, and I didn't say that he should do nothing and let me handle everything.

 

[Midorikawa]

... And maybe he's Mafia and is tricking you? All claims are necessary, and if he trusts and Independent more than a Cop checked player then there has to be some really weird play going around. Am I the only one who sees what's fishy about that? If you were in my position, would you let the same excuses you're telling me fly by like as if they were nothing?



Wow, that escalated fast and is... going completely nowhere. I only asked for one thing, and you're getting overly defensive with calling me a special snowflake for wanting one claim for following how I usually play my game as Town when I'm trusted. You're already assuming that I'm going to do some decision with the claim when I may also do none. Why would I give the information? Yes, it might be wrong, and you might disagree, and you may be right, but that's just how the game goes. How is it any different than when you said that you doubted that Zexy was telling the truth of his Commuter claim in Planet Mafia because you were Bulletproof?

You were in a leadership position, didn't give any information, but people trusted your judgement without complaints and followed. If I was in that game I wouldn't have called you a special snowflake or asked you why you weren't saying why you doubted his claim. Yes, Piko is cop checked too, and I didn't say that he should do nothing and let me handle everything.

Saying "I don't trust his role because of my role" is giving information because t is basically claiming. It telling who could be mafia is completely hurting because it's not giving us anything. Mafia had plenty of information to figure out who is cop already if you think that's the danger. They can rule out themselves and anyone mentioned having claimed or whatnot. The moment you asked me for hellcros claim made it obvious he isn't the cop. So they already know who make good nk targeted and rowlcop checks.


Also my belief in HC comes from my own role and his approach. He wants to claim to you or the thread then that's his choice, but I won't out his claim just because you think you need it. You don't and you'll survive.

 

[DrumBeats]

........I was saying you didn't mention it as in it's possible that's your way of claiming it without well claiming it.



Idk.

Ah, the way you quoted that made it very unclear, my apologies.

We could do that but it won't really help our reads....

Agreed, I would rather be mislynched and provide the town with information than just vote out an inactive.

FinalArcadia: "Yeah HumanDawn is Town unless Godfather."

My inbox:

Spoiler

Well I don't blame them. I claimed to you and you revealed it to the whole thread a few hours later, so you haven't really proven to be trustworthy with them.

This is very interesting.

Now, no one really suspected FA until DB cast this whole PP suspicion thing onto them. To me, this really feels like a desperate last ditch attempt to transfer suspicion onto FA for no reason behaviour wise. It's based on predictions and assumptions of the games setup, and truly believing every claim. Backup cop seems too good to be true and throwing in the idea of being roleblocked straightaway gives them an excuse to backtrack. I'm more happy with a DB lynch than jd.

That's grasping for straws there Elementar. Nobody still suspects FA. I laid out that case knowing that I am the current lynch target, and saying that FA is the one of us PPs that would be the least likely to be alive right now if town. Once I die tonight, you will see the logic checks out. You asked the question, I gave an answer, don't villainize me for answering your question.

I can't tell you.

Make sure you, Pikochu, and the cop have it and the reasoning for it in case of a death. You all need to know why too in case you need to convince people, because nobody should blindly trust your judgement here.

Probably the fact that I won't be sharing his claim with you. It's unnecessary for you to know. If you trust I'm town aligned then trust what I'm saying like we've all been doing with you.

If you think I'm scum, then lynch me.


As for FA. I do not believe that her not contacting Human makes her scum.

Town aligned? What happened to Indy?

Saying "I don't trust his role because of my role" is giving information because t is basically claiming. It telling who could be mafia is completely hurting because it's not giving us anything. Mafia had plenty of information to figure out who is cop already if you think that's the danger. They can rule out themselves and anyone mentioned having claimed or whatnot. The moment you asked me for hellcros claim made it obvious he isn't the cop. So they already know who make good nk targeted and rowlcop checks.


Also my belief in HC comes from my own role and his approach. He wants to claim to you or the thread then that's his choice, but I won't out his claim just because you think you need it. You don't and you'll survive.

Your own role? Aren't you Indy survivor, which is basically vanilla? How would your role mean anything here?

----

Additionally, WolfOwl messaged me about opinions about Human. I've decided to do a full list of reads in public instead, so my words cannot be twisted. If I'm going to die tonight, I'm going to leave as much info as possible behind tonight. @jdthebud , since you're also a likely lynch today, I suggest you do the same.

 

[Midorikawa]

Town aligned? What happened to Indy?

That's why I said town aligned. If I was calling myself town I would have said town. Notice how I said mafia in the same post over mafia aligned.

Your own role? Aren't you Indy survivor, which is basically vanilla? How would your role mean anything here?

Doesn't mean there isn't more to my role. I just claimed indep survivor but there is a passive side to my role.

 

[HumanDawn]

Saying "I don't trust his role because of my role" is giving information because t is basically claiming. It telling who could be mafia is completely hurting because it's not giving us anything. Mafia had plenty of information to figure out who is cop already if you think that's the danger. They can rule out themselves and anyone mentioned having claimed or whatnot. The moment you asked me for hellcros claim made it obvious he isn't the cop. So they already know who make good nk targeted and rowlcop checks.

Also my belief in HC comes from my own role and his approach. He wants to claim to you or the thread then that's his choice, but I won't out his claim just because you think you need it. You don't and you'll survive.

I don't agree but I'll accept it for now.

@DrumBeats if you had a claim you thought were suspicious you'd have done the same thing as me, out it, and try to get it lynched. If you were the one that doubted me and you shared the claim I gave you in the open because you thought it was suspicious I wouldn't have made much of a fuss but understood that in a game about doubting others, these kinds of things are expected. I've done it countless times with even more important sounding claimed roles than some 1x Back up Cop claim and have never had somebody complain as much as you and guilt trip me as much for it.

 

[DrumBeats]

I wouldn't have acted so quickly. You had a cop to use. That instance wasn't even me being pissed about it (though I'll admit most of the other posts after were because it was still fresh). That post was me explaining to you why people are hesitant to claim to you. I sure as hell wouldn't have claimed to you had you just outed another one instantly.