Mafia Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Mafia - Endgame (Looking Stupid Joker!)

[HumanDawn]

Seeing Soulmaster's latest posts... I like what I see for the most part, seems like a genuine effort to catch up, more than what I'm used to from them, tbh. [UNVOTE]: Soulmaster

I agree that it's more than what you are used to, but what do you think of his actual reads and votes?

 

[HumanDawn]

I would chalk that up to the colors being confusing because DawningWinds and me are both null to Town but are different colors. She said Neopest is Null but strong enough to be GTH Town.

Example being that I am blue, but I am the weakest of the Town leans, while DawningWinds is green, and is green. i just noticed this now, which explains my confusion

 

[HumanDawn]

Example being that I am blue, but I am the weakest of the Town leans, while DawningWinds is green, *and is green. i just noticed this now, which explains my confusion

*and is not the weakest of FA's Town reads

 

[HumanDawn]

Now up to date, and it seems votes have consolidated. Not sure how I feel about the two least active people being the leading wagons, but I will say that everyone put in an impressive amount of effort for a Bulbagarden game.

SM said he would be around for thirty minutes after his catch-up post, but he seems to have completely dipped.

Oh wow, he did dip because he didn't answer your post 274! Not even 15 minutes!

 

[Kaiveran]

Let's see if I can't lick this thing yet...

Having insomnia sucks

Having ADD sucks more. If I didn't I'd probably have come back to this thread like 3 hours ago lol

Page 6

Judging by FA's opener (which looks kinda towny for the leetic poke, by the by) and neo's post immediately after, it looks like the "who's online" thing is pretty embedded into site culture. I'm not sure I can hang with that, for reasons I've already stated. I might start using mentions to make up for it, but still, I'd appreciate if y'all were charitable with me on that front. I will also take this opportunity to state that I'm a terrible typist and very easily distracted.

CapsFan shows up, yay! Immediately gets down to business in a way I tend to lean town, it looks like they are trying to focus engagement on the most pressing issues to them. I do think it's slightly odd that leetic is hard up on some meta read, but I also think it's odd that Caps jumps from seemingly interested in said meta context (#105) to dismissive of it (#111). I'm not sure what to make of either at present. #113 does explain a bit about 1337ic, BUT(T)...

Town

Still looking around for a potential partner for HD maybe DW, the aggressiveness over the last few posts (halfway through page 5 rn) has pinged me quite a bit

Gonna pause right at HD's vote on me (ooo boy that GTH read on HD is looking baaaad against me now) because I have stuff to do, I'll come back and read the rest later

Did I miss something here, @TheCapsFan? When did HD vote you?

If I had to choose right now, I'd say Caps oddity reads as slightly scummier than leetic's

And then @Reiji makes his appearance with a glorious quote-wall. Since this is a fancy itemized wall, I shall also itemize my response:

• leetic: interesting stuff. I tend to agree that leetic seems overly pushy compared to my prev. experience but I think we kinda meld here on the point that, if it IS something scummy, it's the type of scummy that requires a level of extraversion and consistency that's hard to maintain if fake.
• Soulmaster: not much else to say on this subject currently (we'll see if this changes in future pages). understandable position but nothing to glean here I think
• FinalArcadia: this item in particular is a bit weird to me because the concluding line is very similar to that of the leetic analysis, but I don't see much similar. What specifically do you think might bite a scum!FA D2, do you say?
• neopest: I'm gonna trust you on the "pressure active players" tell. I guess I would slightly townlean neo at this point but I'll say again, I don't think limiting the scope of our engagement at this point really helps.
• DW: drawing a blank on this, I guess I can mostly concur but eh
• HD: similar to above
• Kaiveran: so let me address your probing here directly. Re: the leetic-neopest thing, I understand the value of just giving a cold read of a situation when you are not familiar with a certain meta thing – but I feel like even that has to rely on context to a point. Given I didn't pick up on such, and with the compounding effects of being in an unfamiliar environment and time constraints, hopefully it makes a little more sense why I didn't get into the weeds on that! Also, you seem to have misinterpreted my statements about activity, which might be another culture clash issue; to me, activity is measured by actual content created within the game, and for an NOC game, this is limited to posts.
  
  For the record, I originate from foundational OC communities that grappled extensively with the issue of "guess X's alignment based on their status/site activity/whatever", and after much deliberation, each of them eventually concluded that it's not a good idea. Experience has taught me there is not much to be gained with speculation based on where someone's browser is pointed on-site, compared to what they actually communicate to the game, and focusing on the former can actually be damaging. There are so many reasons any given player could have the green light on, or even be "viewing" the game thread, and not contributing anything new to the game – and my understanding of this has only gotten richer and I have aged and my personal finances have deflated. Real life pulls us every which way. So with all that said, I peeked at you voting me; do you still think my posts are all that scummy compared to others after factoring in all this?
• Caps: lol

Soulmaster returns on this page as well, nothing inconsistent with my takes on him thus far (sorry FA + Reiji at pagebottom), but I'd get concerned if he didn't pick up a bit by current thread-end (nts: p16 at the time of this writing)

Page 7

I think neo opens up with a good point against DW.

@leetic! explain CWAC? From what I've seen I can agree with #123 on FA.

Leetic vs. HD here feels off to me, both parties seem to be mostly talking at each other and oddly committed to antagonism. I'm not sure what to think about that. I'm usually not one to speculate on wolves engaging in theater with each other so early, especially in a small 2-wolf game, but again, these are unfamiliar environs.

-----------------------

ugh, I really want to continue, but it's 5AM and I'm already getting very draggy. Maybe this isn't the best approach, but it's what I'm used to. I will make an informed decision on how to power through after a shower and some z's

 

[HumanDawn]

This is the first NP post that kinda pings me, ngl. Basically, it's hedgy, but in a different sense than hedging on a read. Basically:

"Why do I have a vote on HD?" -> "I'll say wasn't online at the same time as anyone else I scumread."
"But what if it turns out that I was?" -> "I'll add a vague qualifier that if they were around, I didn't see the need to vote them for some vague unspecified reason"

It feels more like something made up to have all your bases covered rather than the actual reason

I can see a bit where you are coming from - I think I justified it later in my 308.

Do you think NP deserves more scrutiny for it? I can see how it can ping you because I have had difficulties leaving the gamethread with a vote as Mafia in my Championship games, but I chalk it up to needing more time to think and not having the time to engage with the thread (but I will concede that it is not what Neopest claimed when saying it was because the suspects weren't around).

 

[HumanDawn]

So, as a summary, if I confbias this from a scum!SM perspective...

DW is a townie that SM is giving to the thread. Understandable, since no one is really suspecting them anymore.
Caps is a townie that SM is trying to push suspicion on.
RJ is a townie who SM is trying to set up future suspicion on.
Kai is a townie that SM considers the safest option to vote.
HD is a townie who SM is trying to set up future suspicion on.
I am an active townie that SM is trying to acquiesce to, as it is clear from threadstate that I'm not a viable push.

FA could be a townie that SM is giving to the thread. However, the fact that SM felt the need to say that he needs to say more on FA because she is active, while not doing the same to people like HD and NP who had more posts, suggests that something more could be going on.
NP could be a townie that SM is trying to set up future suspicion on. However, the fact that SM gave her a townlean for no apparent reason, when he didn't give the same luxury to HD and only with reservations gave it to RJ, suggests that something more could be going on.

Basically, if SM flips bad, FA and NP would be my exact PoE.

Or... it could be the other way around and in the players he suspects, one could be Mafia with him to distance themselves? I don't think it's as clear cut as you make it sound.

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

Having ADD sucks more

Try having insomnia and ADHD (even if the former is likely the result of the latter)
I do have the "benefit" of often using forums as a distraction, leading to me often being online more than I should

Caps: lol

They did talk about Caps, just in the post after their opener. I can understand you missing it due to ADHD, but I would like you to talk about it as well

@leetic! explain CWAC?

Contributing Without Actually Contributing, it's a term that only seems to be used here (and in our sister community ZD)

 

[HumanDawn]

Example being that I am blue, but I am the weakest of the Town leans, while DawningWinds is green, and is green. i just noticed this now, which explains my confusion

@FinalArcadia care to explain to the COURT why the colors contradict your reads? Why is HumanDawn Blue (Town), and is the weakest of your Town leans, but DawningWinds is Green (Null), but is also a Town lean?

Spoiler

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

Or... it could be the other way around and in the players he suspects, one could be Mafia with him to distance themselves? I don't think it's as clear cut as you make it sound.

I feel his "read" on Caps is a bit convoluted for w/w, usually wolves are able to make better cases against partners as a result of TMI. With RJ he is clearly insinuating that he will lead to a vote on them tomorrow, and with you he randomly called you and no one else in an early game slank post which is unlikely to be W/W. If there is a distancing attempt, it's NP (post doesn't strongly commit to a townread, but is phrased in a way such that SM would not need to reconsider it immediately) or Kai (SM sees partner slanking and just wants to salvage something by bussing)

 

[HumanDawn]

Okay, after reading everything I'm just gonna

VOTE: Soulmaster

The only slot I feel... any confidence in lynching. Everyone else I feel I can give some benefit of the doubt for their worst, but Soulmaster's reads were ehh, and while I don't expect much from their reads in general, they don't usually come off so weak and odd. My biggest gripe here is their vote on Kaiveran has like 0 reasoning which makes it look half-assed and more like trying to take the heat off them rather than a genuine attempt at trying to solve the game. Went for the easy vote for reasons which have no backing up them for what actually makes Kaiveran scum.

@leetic! i'm heading out but i will try to do a trustfall on my phone when i have the time... there are Christmas logs for me to eat!!

 

[FinalArcadia]

FinalArcadia-I'm liking most of their posts. They generally are trying to progress the game. Posting actual thoughts and asking good lines of questions. Feel like I should have more here because they have posted more, but I wrote this earlier on and haven't gone back and added to you, sorry.

This is vague enough that it feels like trying to pocket me when I'm one of the people voting for Soulmaster. Not sure why he felt the need to mention that he should have more to add but just left whatever earlier version he was working on. Why even say that, then, rather than add to it?

As others have said, the reads list overall does feel hollow despite the length, I'm not gonna rehash it. I'd like to give it another look though once I'm not busy.

Leetic vs. HD here feels off to me, both parties seem to be mostly talking at each other and oddly committed to antagonism. I'm not sure what to think about that. I'm usually not one to speculate on wolves engaging in theater with each other so early, especially in a small 2-wolf game, but again, these are unfamiliar environs.

Quoting this mainly because I like that this is an observation that nobody had really said in this game that I remember. In contrast to SM's post, Kai's is looking solid so far, with unique insights like this one.

@Kaiveran
Do you see that interaction as maf/maf more likely than town/maf, if you think something is up with at least one player there? If so, who do you see as the more likely mafia member?

@FinalArcadia care to explain to the COURT why the colors contradict your reads? Why is HumanDawn Blue (Town), and is the weakest of your Town leans, but DawningWinds is Green (Null), but is also a Town lean?

I think my color system might make more sense in my head than on screen lol. Blue is town, and green is in different shades to show how null to town that read is. DawningWInds is a darker green than neopest because I feel more strongly leaning town on DW, even though he is also somewhere in that null range. neopest has the lightest green because that is the most null. Because you were light blue, you were a town lean, even if it was slight rather than, say, the dark blue Reiji strong town lean.

That's why the order was Human > Dawning > neopest

 

[FinalArcadia]

Oh wait, I remembered the other thing I wanted to mention about Soulmaster's post. It looks long, but a significant chunk of it is quoting people and giving not really game-relevant commentary, but more just asides or jokes. And filler like that at this point in the game (page 14 where he posted) when we had a severe lack of actual game content from Soulmaster gives off an illusion of doing more in that post than he actually did.

 

[Soulmaster]

Cools, y'all want to vote me off, by all means. I tried to give some kind of defense/reads, but y'all didn't like those either. Scummy for no activity and scummy for small activity that y'all just dislike. So seems like I can't really do much so why try at this point?

 

[FinalArcadia]

@Soulmaster
Sorry if I missed it, but do you have a vote active on anyone right now? If not, who would you vote if you absolutely had to?

 

[Soulmaster]

Okay now that my gut reaction post is done let's give a couple more things.

What makes my pushiness different now than before?

It seems little less harsh? You're still pushing, but not overly aggressive anymore in my view.

SM's "catchup" is mostly responding to posts directed at him and repeating everybody else's reads at the end

Wow so a catchup post where someone has been running on full brainpower for over 12 hours and getting about an hour already pushing them from exhaustion can't be a full 12 page argument on all 8 other players? Well guess I should just ignore everything then.

This reason is literally just "inactive=scummy"

ISO and more explanation will come in the next half hour.

@Soulmaster I know you have good reason to not talk about Kai's reasons for townreading you, but there's a couple things I want to know. If Kai's a wolf and your town, what does Kai gain by defending you? Ey were the only person to hold onto a townread on you so ey stick out in particular.

No idea, I don't typically speculate on potential wolves defenses until they're proven. I know that can be a crucial part of the game sometimes (most of the time), but not typically a thing I do until we have some confirmed roles in here.

@Soulmaster
Sorry if I missed it, but do you have a vote active on anyone right now? If not, who would you vote if you absolutely had to?

I have it on Kaiveran currently. Following up with greater reasons because people think it's just inactive=scum (which, to people in general, once again I would like to reiterate, inactive doesn't tell us anything because people can be inactive as town or scum. Some people say it's easier as scum because blending in, but no it's normally easier as town because everybody thinks that so scum can hide in active/moderately active spots because inactive is always thought to be scum.)

 

[Soulmaster]

So late P2 to early P3. Not so much substantive going on. I will echo FinalArcadia’s thoughts on Day 1s, but experience has taught me the only way out of the game starting drags is through. So the verve shown by both leetic and FA is a positive for both of them.

WRT P3, specifically the beef between leetic and Soul: I will say I’ve correctly read Soulmaster town despite low activity / limited information on him in an offsite game, and his play feels very similar to that case so far. AFAICT he’s not going to respond if you pressure him. He’ll engage with the game in his own way at his own pace. If he never actually picks up over the course of the Day, then I might consider voting him, but for now it’s probably best to look elsewhere.

leetic I’ve played with once before, and his play here is significantly more aggressive than that; but considering that he was a blue in that game (whom I accidentally role-stole for a clean wolf sweep) this could just be natural boldness/impatience with being green, supported by the fact that he’s specifically trying to get everyone into the fold here.

I don’t have meta on anyone here other than the aforementioned two players, nor do I know site culture, and I won’t have time to get into either of those because I’m working this weekend. So stuff like leetic vs. neopest is gonna go completely over my fluffy little head – sorry~!

And then #60 makes me sad – I mean, I probably could have guessed this based on the fact that 9-player games are even being fielded in a single-game queue, but damn. All the sites that do TWG/Mafia even remotely like way I grew up with…will they all be extinct soon?

(Oh, and the post is alright game-wise, I guess. Posts/vote from neopest on P4 calls attention to DW’s hedginess but I find that’s pretty normal for less aggressive town early D1)

Down page 4, responses from DW make me lean town more definitively. The way they handle those last two comments shows an interest in being transparent.

As for #70, I’m kinda split on any meta reads over such timeframes, simply because it can be such a toss-up between a returning player going “I wanna put a new spin on things” vs. “I wanna splash into the nostalgia pool”, y’know? 1 post doesn’t give us much to go off yet either.

(brb bathroom)

So this post is decent. Early on is mostly meta talk, which on early D1 is about all you can talk about. Latter bit and it seems as mostly gut reads, which again at this point should be expected. However, one is written as an aside which I'm not a fan of but so be it.

Thanks for the tip!

As for your next post...I'm assuming GTH implies I have to take a side? I've already given thoughts on DW, Soul and FA (all town), neopest I'd lean town at this point as well, although that's pretty low certainty...HD's eagerness can be either side, really, but I'd say wolf given they've been oddly absent since the game actually started.

Ah the GTH post (aside from me, what on earth does GTH actually stand for?). Not much to say here.

Vote: Reiji

Considering my thoughts on the players present and the general circumstances, I think it's very important to put pressure on 0-posters ATM, so they cannot avoid scrutiny simply by providing no information. A diversity of targets also makes it more difficult for wolves to hide their intentions behind wagon momentum.

p-edit: just a grammatical note, you can inflect ey/em pronouns as if they were singular!

Pressure vote on a 0-poster. They say they like doing this, and is a normal tactic in games so not really alignment indicative.

Oh yeah, you did reference people's activity thingies a few times.

Me, I've never been one to status stalk, even when the tools for such are available. It's against the spirit of the game in my view. There's also still a lot more time in the Day.

On further thought, I also find it pretty suspicious that we have exactly two 0-posters as of now, with two wolves in the game. Being in a 2-person team can be very intimidating to a wolf, because they no longer have access to any of the PR-management strategies that come with normal 3- or 4-wolf teams. You have to take a solid stance on your partner and/or reap the consequences of said stance if they flip/get seered/what have you. Given that HD and Soul have given us at least token posts of appreciation for the game, it's not at all improbable that we have at least one wolf in Caps + Reiji.

(And with that, I think I'll take my leave for now. I'll be able to fit some more playtime in midday tomorrow.)

Oh that's the status stalk message I remembered. Comment about the 2 0-posters possibly being wolves. Sure it's possible, but unlikely at least that both are. Having 1 in the pair of the two (conveniently mentioned at the end of their post) might not be bad, especially because both of those aren't favorites on the town side. But nothing of this is new nor adds anything other than odds to the game, which it seems early to go for good odds.

well, I didn't get back here in nearly as timely a manner as I expected...sorry for that!

there's been a lot of people quoting one of my posts (possibly a quote chain) so I'm assuming there's some important discourse there? let's see

Filler catching up post, ignore.

Not gonna be able to go too in-depth due to time constraints, but lets give it a try

as much as I dislike quote-walls myself, it looks like @HumanDawn on p5 is truly trying to get their ducks in a row via ISOs. To answer your question: it was more a matter of putting those two in my votepool rather than making a definite statement about one or both being wolves. Given that leetic was already on Caps, and my previous mention of target diversity, I thought Reiji was the most productive option at that time.


I don't disagree with the bolded, but in the game I played with him...I can't go into specific details because that would fall afoul of a rule that people can and have been punished for breaking offsite. But suffice it to say that I'm quite reluctant to compromise on him.

I think we're definitely dealing with a Survivor-like in this game, which means...sure, we're gonna have to be careful after voting out a townie, but given that the eventual hammers require a supermajority and the game is NOC - even if there happened to be TvT votes in this situation - for Wolves + 3P to rush onto it for the win would require an unlikely level of coordination, and if someone thwarts it with an unvote then 3P has really f'd their chances by associating with wolves. So I wouldn't sweat it too much (unless this site subscribes to the Gospel of MafiaScum and dictates all 3Ps must die.)

Oh a response to a question about the last substance post. Seems halfway backtracking but fine.
Another mention of our shared game, I am personally ignoring that but others take what you will.
Speculation about a indep/3rd party. Agree, survivor most likely, even if that was the most common indep on this site back years ago (no idea if the culture has changed since then). Nothing that even tries to forward the game really in this post.

bah, i haven't got to the important bit, but i gotta leave now or else i;ll be late

i have bulba on my phone so i'll TRY to read up, but considering i work in foodservice and its a staturday, i make no promises.

Another filler, yay. (this is sarcasm, because saying that it is seems to be needed these days).
Is excuse for being inactive, which is totally fair, foodservice can be unpredictable.

Let's see if I can't lick this thing yet...

Having ADD sucks more. If I didn't I'd probably have come back to this thread like 3 hours ago lol

Page 6

Judging by FA's opener (which looks kinda towny for the leetic poke, by the by) and neo's post immediately after, it looks like the "who's online" thing is pretty embedded into site culture. I'm not sure I can hang with that, for reasons I've already stated. I might start using mentions to make up for it, but still, I'd appreciate if y'all were charitable with me on that front. I will also take this opportunity to state that I'm a terrible typist and very easily distracted.

CapsFan shows up, yay! Immediately gets down to business in a way I tend to lean town, it looks like they are trying to focus engagement on the most pressing issues to them. I do think it's slightly odd that leetic is hard up on some meta read, but I also think it's odd that Caps jumps from seemingly interested in said meta context (#105) to dismissive of it (#111). I'm not sure what to make of either at present. #113 does explain a bit about 1337ic, BUT(T)...



Did I miss something here, @TheCapsFan? When did HD vote you?

If I had to choose right now, I'd say Caps oddity reads as slightly scummier than leetic's

And then @Reiji makes his appearance with a glorious quote-wall. Since this is a fancy itemized wall, I shall also itemize my response:

• leetic: interesting stuff. I tend to agree that leetic seems overly pushy compared to my prev. experience but I think we kinda meld here on the point that, if it IS something scummy, it's the type of scummy that requires a level of extraversion and consistency that's hard to maintain if fake.
• Soulmaster: not much else to say on this subject currently (we'll see if this changes in future pages). understandable position but nothing to glean here I think
• FinalArcadia: this item in particular is a bit weird to me because the concluding line is very similar to that of the leetic analysis, but I don't see much similar. What specifically do you think might bite a scum!FA D2, do you say?
• neopest: I'm gonna trust you on the "pressure active players" tell. I guess I would slightly townlean neo at this point but I'll say again, I don't think limiting the scope of our engagement at this point really helps.
• DW: drawing a blank on this, I guess I can mostly concur but eh
• HD: similar to above
• Kaiveran: so let me address your probing here directly. Re: the leetic-neopest thing, I understand the value of just giving a cold read of a situation when you are not familiar with a certain meta thing – but I feel like even that has to rely on context to a point. Given I didn't pick up on such, and with the compounding effects of being in an unfamiliar environment and time constraints, hopefully it makes a little more sense why I didn't get into the weeds on that! Also, you seem to have misinterpreted my statements about activity, which might be another culture clash issue; to me, activity is measured by actual content created within the game, and for an NOC game, this is limited to posts.
  
  For the record, I originate from foundational OC communities that grappled extensively with the issue of "guess X's alignment based on their status/site activity/whatever", and after much deliberation, each of them eventually concluded that it's not a good idea. Experience has taught me there is not much to be gained with speculation based on where someone's browser is pointed on-site, compared to what they actually communicate to the game, and focusing on the former can actually be damaging. There are so many reasons any given player could have the green light on, or even be "viewing" the game thread, and not contributing anything new to the game – and my understanding of this has only gotten richer and I have aged and my personal finances have deflated. Real life pulls us every which way. So with all that said, I peeked at you voting me; do you still think my posts are all that scummy compared to others after factoring in all this?
• Caps: lol

Soulmaster returns on this page as well, nothing inconsistent with my takes on him thus far (sorry FA + Reiji at pagebottom), but I'd get concerned if he didn't pick up a bit by current thread-end (nts: p16 at the time of this writing)

Page 7

I think neo opens up with a good point against DW.

@leetic! explain CWAC? From what I've seen I can agree with #123 on FA.

Leetic vs. HD here feels off to me, both parties seem to be mostly talking at each other and oddly committed to antagonism. I'm not sure what to think about that. I'm usually not one to speculate on wolves engaging in theater with each other so early, especially in a small 2-wolf game, but again, these are unfamiliar environs.

-----------------------

ugh, I really want to continue, but it's 5AM and I'm already getting very draggy. Maybe this isn't the best approach, but it's what I'm used to. I will make an informed decision on how to power through after a shower and some z's

This is actually something. Slightly more talk (throughout) about the online thingy. Moving on from that because that's old news.
Talk about a few people openers. Namely, the 2 people they pegged as 0-posters earlier. Which is they are now looking at why they might not be or be. Slight town lean on Caps, which is against most of the thread but whatever. Reiji-response, doesn't really tell us anything. They try to beef it up by making it itemized and look fancy, but it's nothing more than a bunch of "yeah sures".
Oh neo opens up with a good point. Yay?
From what I know of HD, and from what I'm learning about Leetic, that seems to track.



Well, this ISO didn't really help nearly as much as I thought it would. But here we are. I am sticking with my vote on Kai. There was something about all of the posts that I (apparently) can't really explain that put me off. I loathe the inactivity=scum and my brain doesn't really correlate the two unless it's severe inactivity in which case not a scum lynch more of a "you're not helping" lynch. But that's not really what I see here (inactivity wise).
Posts seems to be small responses to others (which I suppose is most of what I've done as well, crap). A couple have been hiding? behind different site cultures and talking about that, which is valid but not something that I like either. So sorry, turns out the ISO didn't really help but I'm not going to change my gut feeling until I get good reason otherwise.

----Other stuff time
Leetic mentioned something about my reads ending up being most of the same ones as the thread. Okay, sure possible for being s sheep, or maybe it's because I read the same things others did and jump to most of the same conclusions? Almost like mafia players tend to think the same a lot and will come to the same conclusions. Whoop-dee-fucking-doo. Such a novel breakthrough. I know me saying I was typing those as I came across things and not paying huge attention to what others have said won't help me but here I am saying it anyways. Sue me.

 

[FinalArcadia]

I saw the game started while I was playing Stardew Valley, checked to see if anything interesting happened, concluded no and kept playing.

Oh I get way more invested in games as scum but had the unfortunate rand of a team who gave up immediately. I wasn't exactly lying about that one.

Oh I saw you say that I'm less invested in games as scum. In that case I was lying to seem town because my entire team gave up so I wasn't feeling it. I can get invested or uninvested as either alignment though, it's not really a good way to read me.

Also I want to say the idea of someone voting me because I didn't respond to their singular post in a game thread that had only just started and had only one post in it because I said I'd be less invested in a game as scum in a game where I was high investment as scum is almost too ridiculous to be a wolf.

neopest has been mentioned has having a fairly high post count, but it's a bit inflated when a lot of those early posts were not even super game relevant beyond self-meta, which is not useful.

------

I have no meta on anyone here except for leetic and HumanDawn so I'll be playing without that in mind unless someone can point to specific tells. Makes the game a bit harder but I like a challenge : p

Also I do have to say that DawningWinds opening was pretty hedgey in almost all aspects. I would've liked them to have put some pressure on just about anyone and the fact that they haven't really said anything in that post besides leetic town is a small strike against them considering they mentioned 4 other players and specifically talked about 2 of them.

Also upon reread FinalArcadia's initial post isn't as bad as I had initially thought. I was finding it kind of scummy because I felt it was a bit forced buuuuuuuut I did/do see their perspective on leetic and the SoulMaster stuff is ~fair enough.

Vote: DawiningWinds

The DawningWinds vote here is fine, there's some sense of progression in the read.

I don't hate the motivation behind these posts even though I don't really agree with the practice. I think it's much more beneficial to pressure people who are actually here and playing the game, but I do understand the line of thought here.

This is about Kaiveran, but it doesn't really take a stance about anything. It's more of an aside than any notable reaction to the former's vote on Reiji.

Also @leetic

What do you make of DawningWinds complete refusal to cooperate with you? I'm not saying there's a right or wrong answer here, just want to see if we meld a bit : )

This post is weird to me when combined with a later one. It seems like neopest even early on was buttering up leetic a bit and maybe testing the waters on what to do in-thread by seeing what leetic was thinking (as leetic was probably the top town read at this point). In fact, unless I missed it, I don't remember if neopest ever actually acknowledged leetic's answer to this question at all?

What are your own thoughts on DawningWind and what in particular do you not agree with Caps on?

We still have quite a lot of time left but I would say the players that have given me the strongest impressions so far are Reiji, DawningWind, and leetic.

Reiji mainly because I felt their start to the game was quite strong and I feel like when scum are often "late" to games beginning they tend to emphasize that more and give thoughts in a way that don't entirely sound natural. In contrast, I thought the thoughts Reiji presented were both extremely detailed and natural, particularly with the way he addressed caps.

leetic at this point should be obvious because of the way they are choosing to play the game and how they are aggressively approaching each player in a way I find atypical for scum (note: scum absolutely can approach people aggressively but this range of focus is usually applied narrowly because they don't want to piss everyone off). Also I just kind of feel like they're obvious villa the more I go over their posts and that's probably my strongest townread.

Aside from the "argument" DawningWind had with leetic I feel as though they have a certain amount of thread presence that doesn't quite match up with the content they've presented thus far. The best way I can describe it is that it almost feels like they are afraid to present reads. I don't agree that they need to give GTH reads on everyone like leetic was trying to force, but I do somewhat agree with leetic in that there should have been enough content posted for DawningWind to at least feel some kind of suspicion towards someone or even express a stronger townread somewhere.

For the other players that have chimed but I haven't really addressed: SM, HD, and Caps I will say the only one that really had anything noteworthy was Caps in that the way he approached DawningWind doesn't feel natural when you take into account where he is putting pressure and what he is doing. SM & HD both haven't really done anything so I will call those slots null for now.

This post is decent, continues the DawningWinds rationale. Posted it to be fair in not cutting out the good content.

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I'm not really getting anything out of this HD/Leetic interaction. It doesn't really move the needle for me on HumanDawn tbh.

Also would be hilarious if Caps/HD are the team.

The only reason I have to suspect this is that HD's suspicion on Caps doesn't really make sense to me in an almost TMI way from how he's been discussing it, so yeah don't mind me... just gonna be tinfoiling over here in my corner.

Also DawningWind is trending up for me somewhat with their most recent response. It's not really defensive in the way I normally think scum would react to the kind of pressure I put on them in the early game, but I still do have some concerns.

For now though I'll probably get the ball moving on this

Vote: HumanDawn

Yeah this is kind of what I was getting at myself. The vote and push seem to have been made before actually thinking about why Caps might be mafia. It looks unnatural to me. Kind of like a vote there justify later type of thing.

This is where I think things get suspicious. I don't see where the HumanDawn case came from. I don't remember seeing any suspicion on HD from neopest before this, and they say that the interactions with leetic don't move the needle, but I don't know what that means? To me, that sounds like it doesn't affect their read, but then they go on to eventually vote Human for his interactions with TheCapsFan, which happened very suddenly with the tinfoil theory that they could be a scumteam. And again with kind of moving off of leetic's thoughts on the subject.

The move away from DawningWinds also has pretty vague reasoning. I just don't think this is a solid vote.

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Also while I'm currently entertaining and exploring a HD/Caps team (I have some reason to believe this is plausible) I have reason to believe that there is a potential scum laying low. The reasoning behind this is that at times the thread has been quite volatile with arguments going back and forth for sometimes multiple posts/pages about the same topic but they seem largely confined between two people with others chiming in but not really committing to reads on these particular issues. To me that suggests that there is a very, very good possibility that scum is hanging back and letting us implode and that a lot of these arguments could be T/T.

Following this train of thought, it actually is a point in favor of HD being town.

With that being said, my most likely "targets" that fit that description would probably be SM, Kaiveran, and FinalArcadia. I'm actually feeling a bit better about DawningWind now that I've seen their reads posts mostly because the progression looks good in a way that basically boils down to: "scum often feel pressured to make reads in order to blend in but DawningWind refused to do that for multiple pages and then actually outed their own reads list on their own time and the reads list sounded decent/natural."

I'm here and reading but I'm quite distracted so my thoughts might not be as expanded on as they could be, but for Kai and FA in particular I've felt like they've lacked a certain kind of conviction behind their reads, but even more notable is the fact that I feel out of all the players in the games they have engaged in the "drama" the least and have had the least amount of commentary on it.

I actually think it's way more common for wolves to lie low in these situations than to intercept. If they were to intercept it usually also involves some kind of TMI defense on one or both of the players (if they both so happen to be town) but really every single interception I've seen in this game so far has lead to people scum reading others even more. If you think about it, it makes sense too. A wolf has no real reason to intervene in order to make people look even worse, but a wolf struggling with TMI or who is feeling pocket-y might feel the need to defend a town in these sorts of situations.

As for the second half it has more to do with how HD and Caps interacted in that it seemed unnatural from both sides. HD pushed Caps but in an extremely lazy way that could potentially be TMI-ish if Caps were to flip wolf. Caps on the other hand had an overwhelming reaction to HD's suspicions on him compared to other players.

Calls out people who have not been involved in thread "drama" as potential mafia holding back and watching town implode, but was also not involved in the drama herself either. It's a bit hypocritical, and I think in general that neopest has presented as if she's given more content in the game than has actually happened, personally.

I just kept my vote on HD because most other people I wanted to vote weren't around and didn't really see the use in switching to them if that was the case. It's very late where I am now so I'll respond to everything else in more detail later, but wanted to answer that before heading off to bed.

Unvote

Will place a vote when I'm awake

This is weak; there was no indication before this that neopest no longer felt confident in a vote on Human and she did not even explain why that read changed here. Also don't understand why people need to be around to vote them.

After this, there is no indication of who else neopest may vote for.

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Also, I haven't read Soulmaster's recent posts yet so I gotta do that before I decide if neopest or Soulmaster is a better vote IMO right now.

 

[FinalArcadia]

Okay, read it now. Soulmaster at least went back through posts to try to explain their vote on Kaiveran. It's not an airtight case by any means, but he does mention hiding behind site cultures and some other thoughts that clarify that this isn't an inactivity vote.

Soulmaster seems to often give up when mafia and confronted, and it tends to happen early. That he's putting in more effort right now and sticking to his guns about Kaiveran is a small meta point in his favor.

Maybe I'm being naive, but I'm willing to give this a try, and I've been thinking about it ever since I answered who I disagree with most in the game last night.

UNVOTE: Soulmaster
VOTE: neopest

 

[Reiji]

I have had a quick skim through (mostly because oh my god dealing with a whole page of leetic stream of consciousness killed my brain) but I'm going to go back now to actually grab things/make points etc (I will admit, this whole ISO etc. business I am really struggling with, also another reason it takes a while for responses etc) but I will say that this has really spun me out, considering FA's stance held in the game:

Okay, read it now. Soulmaster at least went back through posts to try to explain their vote on Kaiveran. It's not an airtight case by any means, but he does mention hiding behind site cultures and some other thoughts that clarify that this isn't an inactivity vote.

Soulmaster seems to often give up when mafia and confronted, and it tends to happen early. That he's putting in more effort right now and sticking to his guns about Kaiveran is a small meta point in his favor.

Maybe I'm being naive, but I'm willing to give this a try, and I've been thinking about it ever since I answered who I disagree with most in the game last night.

UNVOTE: Soulmaster
VOTE: neopest

Like I said though, not properly read through everything yet so I may see how this has developed into a vote.

Initial thoughts are I'm not really buying SM's responses, neither Kai's; HD I think has solidified themselves as Town a bit more and FA with this turn on NP has thrown me for six.

Also I won't lie, I am so used to 24 hours phases that I kinda posted yesterday and expected to wake up to phase being over, complete oversight my end and I had been playing on that basis.