How to Fix the Ice Type

[Slife]

To be honest, I think snow warning Ninetales + aurora veil pretty much fixed ice type.
Just look at the usage of hail teams in VGC 2017 compared to rain and sun.

Improving a Pokemon of a certain type doesn't fix that type itself. Ice still has the same issues with move/ability distributivity and type matchups that make it underwhelming competitively, despite the addition of Alolan Ninetales.

As for VGC, having Ninetales on the team doesn't mean the team's strategy is centered around hail. Ninetales is used for its own merits, because it outspeeds + OHKOs Garchomp, and offers good support moves in Icy Wind and Aurora Veil. The combo of Ninetales + Sandslash (or another hail abuser) has relatively little use compared to the rain pair of Pelipper + Golduck or the sun trio of Torkoal + Lilligant + Oranguru. Although sand isn't used as a team strategy itself, Gigalith is the dominant weather setter right now. If anything, the primary way Ninetales's hail is used in any "weather aspect" is to counter/reset the other weathers.

 

[Extroth]

As someone from Minnesota I have always been vaguely offended at how bad the ice type is even for non-competitive purposes. The last time I used the ice type in-game was gen 1 with my Articuno. But ice destroys everything around here, my car, my house, the roads, RAILROAD tracks. So how about making ice SE against steel types, then make it immune to flinching because when you're used to the cold you don't flinch. I've also think they should be SE against Psychic types because of how hard it is to concentrate when your cold. Then make ghost resist ice and everything would be good.

 

[Matleo]

non-ice typed pokemon when using ice attacks during rain or water sport should get self frozen instead of the enemy.
This way water type users wont oversuse ice type moves to much.

 

[GiraFragMich]

I thinkable Ice types (my favorite type) should resist Ghost and Flying type moves. Why? Well, Ghost is associated with the cold, with chilly places and the night - an Ice type Pokemon should be able to withstand such things. The Flying type is mostly made up of birds and Wind-based concepts. Birds are mostly fleeing from the winter and are very susceptible to the cold - their attacks should do less damage to a chunk of Ice or a winter storm.

I also think that both of these types need little offensive nerf due to their spammable characteristics right now.

 

[Bob Fizzle]

Ice just needs more 'mons in general. There are fewer ice-types than any other type as of right now. Particularly, as Steven Seagull said, ice needs more 'mons like Weavile. It excels in spite of sporting a 4x weakness to fighting. Its 120 attack coupled with 125 speed lets it use its ice STAB effectively. Mamoswine is a slightly different case. Its 80 speed is not slow, but it's not great, either. Mamoswine, however, is the strongest user of Ice Shard, able to combine its ice STAB with its 130 attack and a life orb. (Not going to discuss the Kyurem forms, but its worth noting that base Kyurem is far and away the worst of the three.)

Ice types are not slow, however. Fully-evolved ice types have an average speed of 76 (lower if you don't count all 3 of Kyurem's forms separately), but the problem is that so many of the fast ice types are just not equipped to take advantage of their speed. Froslass has 110 speed but sports meager 80/80 mixed offenses and no way to boost them, and 70/70/70 bulk means she can't take hits. Alolan Ninetales sports a nice 109 speed and aurora veil compliments its 100 special defense nicely, but it needs to get of a veil and a nasty plot if it wants to do anything. Even Cryogonal has a neat 105 speed and a workable 95 special attack, but its hindered by a lack of Coverage moves[fixed], and 80/50 physical bulk does no favors.

Ice is such a great attacking type, especially given that it gets perfect or near-perfect neutral coverage with just a single secondary type is most cases, it's a shame to see it wasted on 'mons with no offensive presence. Too many ice types are defensive or supportive in nature, and that's just backwards, or they're just plain slow and can't even retaliate because they can't take a hit.

Anyway, this has all been said multiple times in this thread, but I started analyzing the ice type and got worked into a frenzy about it. Rant over, I guess.

 

[Nitro Indigo]

@Bob Fizzle Could you elaborate on Cryogonal's lack of support moves? I like using it as a special wall with Haze and Rapid Spin.

 

[Bob Fizzle]

@Bob Fizzle Could you elaborate on Cryogonal's lack of support moves? I like using it as a special wall with Haze and Rapid Spin.

I meant to say coverage moves. Whoops.

 

[Sablaireau]

The Ice type is simply the worst type in the metagame, to put it bluntly. The only Ice type that is OU is Black Kyurem, which has stats on par with a Uber. Ice's problems can be summed up here:

- Ice has difficulty switching in, considering it only resists itself. Many Ice types have to rely on their secondary typing or VoltTurn cores to get a chance to go in. Its Stealth Rock weakness makes things even more complicated.
- Most Ice types are slow and bulky, despite the lack of resistances. Their average Speed is 76, which is slower than Heatran. Many of them have trouble beating the things they're supposed to check, as they are outsped and often 1HKO'd.
- Ice has a terrible physical movepool, despite many of the best Ice types being physically based. Their best physical STAB is the 85 power Icicle Crash, which is limited to 5 fully evolved Pokémon. It doesn't even have 100% accuracy!
- Ice ultimately is outperformed in its own role by bulkier things. HP Ice is placed on a lot of Pokémon these days, and often still 1HKOs the intended targets (such as Landorus-T and Garchomp). Thus, Ice types really don't have much of a role in the metagame.
- Ice types generally have poor coverage, and most don't have a way to break past Steel types.
- What doesn't help is Weavile, formerly a top tier Pokémon, failed to adapt to all the Fairies that came in Gen VII.

We should start by fixing these problems. First, give Ice a powerful, widely distributed physical move, perhaps a variant on Close Combat. Give Ice types better coverage options (seriously, when Shadow Ball is the best thing many of them have, you know there's a problem). They should especially get Fighting, Ground, and Fire moves to break past Steels, which are really hurting their viability right now. Finally, stop making slow Ice types, as they always are terrible. Every Ice type should have 90 speed at least, enough to make them a good Scarfer at least. There would still be problems, but it would be a start to putting this type on track.

 

[Anime Psyclone]

The Ice type is simply the worst type in the metagame, to put it bluntly. The only Ice type that is OU is Black Kyurem, which has stats on par with a Uber. Ice's problems can be summed up here:

- Ice has difficulty switching in, considering it only resists itself. Many Ice types have to rely on their secondary typing or VoltTurn cores to get a chance to go in. Its Stealth Rock weakness makes things even more complicated.
- Most Ice types are slow and bulky, despite the lack of resistances. Their average Speed is 76, which is slower than Heatran. Many of them have trouble beating the things they're supposed to check, as they are outsped and often 1HKO'd.
- Ice has a terrible physical movepool, despite many of the best Ice types being physically based. Their best physical STAB is the 85 power Icicle Crash, which is limited to 5 fully evolved Pokémon. It doesn't even have 100% accuracy!
- Ice ultimately is outperformed in its own role by bulkier things. HP Ice is placed on a lot of Pokémon these days, and often still 1HKOs the intended targets (such as Landorus-T and Garchomp). Thus, Ice types really don't have much of a role in the metagame.
- Ice types generally have poor coverage, and most don't have a way to break past Steel types.
- What doesn't help is Weavile, formerly a top tier Pokémon, failed to adapt to all the Fairies that came in Gen VII.

We should start by fixing these problems. First, give Ice a powerful, widely distributed physical move, perhaps a variant on Close Combat. Give Ice types better coverage options (seriously, when Shadow Ball is the best thing many of them have, you know there's a problem). They should especially get Fighting, Ground, and Fire moves to break past Steels, which are really hurting their viability right now. Finally, stop making slow Ice types, as they always are terrible. Every Ice type should have 90 speed at least, enough to make them a good Scarfer at least. There would still be problems, but it would be a start to putting this type on track.

They could just distribute Ice Hammer to more Pokemon. It’s base 100 power.
And also, have you heard of White Kyurem?

and also part of the issue with black is it doesn’t have a physical ice move except freeze shock.

Freezing should also be way more common.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

They could just distribute Ice Hammer to more Pokemon. It’s base 100 power.

Ice Hammer also still doesn't have 100% accuracy (a problem Sablaireau already mentioned with Icicle Crash), and it lowers the user's speed, so it doesn't do many favors for fast Pokemon. And that doesn't fix any of the other problems listed.

And also, have you heard of White Kyurem?

Right, so in addition to one form of a legendary Pokemon, we have...another form of the same Pokemon. The Ice type is fixed, guys! We can go home now!

 

[Anime Psyclone]

Right, so in addition to one form of a legendary Pokemon, we have...another form of the same Pokemon. The Ice type is fixed, guys! We can go home now!

That’s in Ubers, I mean. And Arceus Ice is also in Ubers. So we have some amazing ice types, it’s just a lot of them... aren’t good.

 

[Nitro Indigo]

@Sablaireau Weavile and Mamoswine are in OU.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

That’s in Ubers, I mean. And Arceus Ice is also in Ubers. So we have some amazing ice types, it’s just a lot of them... aren’t good.

3 Ice types don't equal 'some'... and can we please keep Arceus out of the question since Ice Arceus is horribly outclassed by the normal Arceus? I haven't seen anyone using Ice Arceus (anything goes). Even 6 Arceus teams take care not to include an ice one, from my experience.

 

[Anime Psyclone]

3 Ice types don't equal 'some'... and can we please keep Arceus out of the question since Ice Arceus is horribly outclassed by the normal Arceus? I haven't seen anyone using Ice Arceus (anything goes). Even 6 Arceus teams take care not to include an ice one, from my experience.

Still technically counts, so I have to mention it.

 

[Cilantro]

*chanting*

ICE BEATS BUG! ICE BEATS BUG!


and resistances to water, ground, and grass

 

[Sablaireau]

@Sablaireau Weavile and Mamoswine are in OU.

Weavile was recently retested and unbanned in UU. Mamoswine was OU a few months ago but is currently UU.

 

[SinnohEevee]

Mega Lapras please!

I know. Will never happen.

 

[PurplePopplio]

*chanting*
ICE BEATS BUG! ICE BEATS BUG!

What? No! Don't nerf Bug even more. >_<

 

[zoroarctic]

At the very least it should get something to distinguish itself from the superior Water-type. Maybe tweak Ice to give it immunities to certain abilities (like what happened to Dark with Prankster).

 

[Matleo]

what if ice types would be immune to moves that have 100% chance of activating a status condition like Toxic or Will-o-wisp or would it be rather a thing for bug types?

At the very least it should get something to distinguish itself from the superior Water-type. Maybe tweak Ice to give it immunities to certain abilities (like what happened to Dark with Prankster).

maybe they could make new and old abilities react like you have suggested.

Ice could resist sound moves (or bug) or resist beam based moves.