Were we too hard on Iris?

[EscLucy]

What I want to know what made people hate Iris?

Several things... (not just my view)

1. Lack of character development;
2. Her goals were not even properly accomplished;
3. The resemblance to Misty in her actions;
4. Her choice of Pokemon and the lack of Pokemon development like Axew (if she wants to be a Dragon Master, why is it still an Axew and why did it have 'Dragon Sneeze' for ages);
5. Lack of focus throughout the anime on her;
6. Her weird journey - from like Excadrill to Olivia to Drayden to nothing.

There is more which I'm sure others can add but those are the ones which stand out to me.

 

[SinnohEevee]

Several things... (not just my view)

1. Lack of character development;
2. Her goals were not even properly accomplished;
3. The resemblance to Misty in her actions;
4. Her choice of Pokemon and the lack of Pokemon development like Axew (if she wants to be a Dragon Master, why is it still an Axew and why did it have 'Dragon Sneeze' for ages);
5. Lack of focus throughout the anime on her;
6. Her weird journey - from like Excadrill to Olivia to Drayden to nothing.

There is more which I'm sure others can add but those are the ones which stand out to me.

You forgot her catchphrase, that seems to be the first thing hat comes to people's minds (including me) when talking/thinking about Iris.

I wasn't here during BW so I don't know about the extreme hate she got.

I wish Ash and Iris went their separate ways in "The Path That Leads to Goodbye!" Ash and Iris didn't really feel like friends. I also don't get why she joined Ash from the start. Was it to belittle him? It was forced.

 

[EscLucy]

I wish Ash and Iris went their separate ways in "The Path That Leads to Goodbye!" Ash and Iris didn't really feel like friends. I also don't get why she joined Ash from the start. Was it to belittle him? It was forced.

Agreed, it is a good point to make. I feel like she joined the same way Misty did, however, Misty had purpose because she was a gym leader. I mean god, if they want to copy and paste Misty they should've made Iris a gym leader in the anime too LOL

 

[SinnohEevee]

Agreed, it is a good point to make. I feel like she joined the same way Misty did, however, Misty had purpose because she was a gym leader. I mean god, if they want to copy and paste Misty they should've made Iris a gym leader in the anime too LOL

Misty had the excuse of her bike and wanting Ash to pay for it (but it seems it was an excuse, so they probably made her join Ash just to be the token girl). Should Pikachu have fried Iris' bike?

 

[EscLucy]

Misty had the excuse of her bike and wanting Ash to pay for it (but it seems it was an excuse, so they probably made her join Ash just to be the token girl). Should Pikachu have fried Iris' bike?

I think Pikachu preferring Misty over Ash and Ash getting triggered by that, was the payment for the bike in all honesty

 

[Cresselia92]

Several things... (not just my view)

1. Lack of character development;
2. Her goals were not even properly accomplished;
3. The resemblance to Misty in her actions;
4. Her choice of Pokemon and the lack of Pokemon development like Axew (if she wants to be a Dragon Master, why is it still an Axew and why did it have 'Dragon Sneeze' for ages);
5. Lack of focus throughout the anime on her;
6. Her weird journey - from like Excadrill to Olivia to Drayden to nothing.

There is more which I'm sure others can add but those are the ones which stand out to me.

Don’t forget…

7. Dragonite. Cheap way to get a final stage dragon; convenient capture just before an important tourney, where it destroyed both Georgia and Dawn all by itself; overused and unresolved disobedience issue.

 

[SinnohEevee]

Don’t forget…

7. Dragonite. Cheap way to get a final stage dragon; convenient capture just before an important tourney, where it destroyed both Georgia and Dawn all by itself; overused and unresolved disobedience issue.

And what was the Dragonite doing in Unova? And why choose a Dragonite instead of a Gen V Pokémon?

 

[Neo Blaze]

I agree with Karamazov that everything surrounding Iris went way overboard during the BW days. I have no problem whatsoever with people disliking Iris, there's a lot of reasons to dislike her which have been summed up in this thread multiple times and as such I won't repeat.

The problem is that when BW aired, a lot of people were not able to outright state they enjoyed BW without getting verbally attacked or being treated as outcasts. The whole Iris thing was a part of that. I was not a mod at the time BW aired, but I experienced the toxic and unpleasant nature firsthand and was on the receiving end of a few attacks as well. In that way I do think the hate for Iris went too far. I'm glad these days are long gone and people are much more respectful to each other in this section these days.

 

[EscLucy]

7. Dragonite. Cheap way to get a final stage dragon; convenient capture just before an important tourney, where it destroyed both Georgia and Dawn all by itself; overused and unresolved disobedience issue.

Totally agree, it was a cheap way to get her to progress to becoming a Dragon Master. It's nature, like Charizard, was overused so you could tell it was rushed. It was really annoying because I think the producers finally realised how much they neglected Iris.

And what was the Dragonite doing in Unova? And why choose a Dragonite instead of a Gen V Pokémon?

Agree totally here - anime producers should try and sell that region not try to bring other Pokemon from different regions into a new one unless necessary. It was unusual when I first saw it.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Don’t forget…

7. Dragonite. Cheap way to get a final stage dragon; convenient capture just before an important tourney, where it destroyed both Georgia and Dawn all by itself; overused and unresolved disobedience issue.

I forgot that Dragonite defeated both Georgia and Dawn by itself. That whole subplot was just awful. Iris didn't learn anything from her experience with Excadril on how to deal with a disobedient Pokemon. She just kept shouting at it, expecting something to change, and didn't even try to call it back into its Pokeball when it was actively endangering other people. Even more noteworthy was how it was resolved. Iris just protected Dragonite during the climax to the Meloetta arc, which isn't anything different that she did when she first met Dragonite. It made the whole subplot feel pointless when Iris didn't learn anything new, but was still rewarded with her Dragonite and I think Cynthia praised her for being able to reach out to Dragonite.

And what was the Dragonite doing in Unova? And why choose a Dragonite instead of a Gen V Pokémon?

This was around the time B2/W2 were released and they wanted to include some older Pokemon in the main cast to help promote it. Plus, they were still limited on what fifth generation Dragon Pokemon they could provide for her and this had the bonus effect of giving her a fully evolved Dragon Pokemon without doing any of the work to get one herself or to evolve Axew.

I agree with Karamazov that everything surrounding Iris went way overboard during the BW days. I have no problem whatsoever with people disliking Iris, there's a lot of reasons to dislike her which have been summed up in this thread multiple times and as such I won't repeat.

The problem is that when BW aired, a lot of people were not able to outright state they enjoyed BW without getting verbally attacked or being treated as outcasts. The whole Iris thing was a part of that. I was not a mod at the time BW aired, but I experienced the toxic and unpleasant nature firsthand and was on the receiving end of a few attacks as well. In that way I do think the hate for Iris went too far. I'm glad these days are long gone and people are much more respectful to each other in this section these days.

Yeah, while Iris is still the worst aspect of BW for me, the hate really got out of control back then. It was absolute chaos and the whole section was just a toxic mess. There were other complaints people had about BW, but Iris was one of the more frequent complaints and most discussions on her got out of hand pretty quickly. It's one thing to dislike a character or a series, but the moment people start throwing personal attacks and make the atmosphere too upsetting for anyone who does like the series/character to be a part of, that's when it becomes a problem. I dealt with that on other sites and it is really awful to be treated so poorly just because you like something that other people hate. It can be bad enough to drive people away.

Fortunately, we don't have that problem here anymore. If this thread had been made shortly after BW finished, there is no way it would have lasted anywhere near this long. Things would have gotten out of hand pretty fast, but so far, it seems fine, which is nice and hopefully more of a sign that the section won't become the same toxic mess it was in the past.

 

[matt0044]

On the whole "race" thing, I didn't mean to accuse anybody of anything. It was more to do with some BW fans on social media (I won't name names) accusing the lack of Iris returning or even merchendise for her being a result of racial bias when it comes to marketing toys and figures. It's something America is infamous for and Japan isn't exempt from this prejudice, having their own history of xenophobia just as we do. Granted, one would wonder why the Anime staff would pick her for the main cast then...

Just hoping nobody got the wrong idea.

 

[kantoskies]

I really liked Iris but I think she deserved a better series. If she had been in Kanto or Sun&Moon she could have been a lot more fun, and if she had been in DP she probably would have had a more cohesive and satisfying story.

 

[EscLucy]

I really liked Iris but I think she deserved a better series. If she had been in Kanto or Sun&Moon she could have been a lot more fun, and if she had been in DP she probably would have had a more cohesive and satisfying story.

It's weird because BW is one of the only series that they didn't plan well and unfortunately character bashing is the product of that. I agree with you, but this is speculation, that Iris probably would've been a better character in DP however I am struggling to work out what role she would play as I think Dawn is supreme hahaha.

 

[HiroHunter]

Is the Iris and Dragonite thing the same as the Ash and Charizard thing back in Kanto only Iris didn't learn anything while Ash did.

 

[AmethystLeslie]

I can only imagine what it was like back in the days when it was new based on these posts, good lord. It's nice to see that the answer to the question was basically, "yes, it was extremely toxic back when BW was new and relevant, but by the end of the day, Iris was a character with major flaws in how she was executed, so it's justified to an extent." The closest thing to me seeing how toxic it was when Pokemon Generations released a episode with Iris in it, people hated it just because she was there, despite have nothing to do with the main anime.

My overall opinion of her? She's... alright. I didn't mind her constant belittling of Ash cuz I would've legit done the same thing.

 

[Muur]

Nah, I hate her.

 

[EscLucy]

Nah, I hate her.

Well said LOL

 

[Muur]

Well said LOL

I groaned every time she said ASH UR SUCH A LIL KID and yet she did the same stuff and usually even worse than Mr Ketchup

 

[EscLucy]

I groaned every time she said ASH UR SUCH A LIL KID and yet she did the same stuff and usually even worse than Mr Ketchup

IKRRRR! Misty 2.0 lol

 

[Fairy Wind]

I groaned every time she said ASH UR SUCH A LIL KID and yet she did the same stuff and usually even worse than Mr Ketchup

I always thought that was the point- I get the sense that they were going for hypocritical humor with that, though most people didn't find it funny. But I like Iris in spite of that, and don't think she deserved the extreme level of vitriol she got from the fandom.