Anti-War Rally

[GrnMarvl14]

How is welfare a scam?

Respond to the above.

 

[The_Real_Mr_Sawyer]

Respond to the above.

Its to make poor people support liberals. Plus exactly who ends up paying for welfare?

 

[GrnMarvl14]

Its to make poor people support liberals. Plus exactly who ends up paying for welfare?

Of course. Welfare's a scam to tax the rich so that the poor will vote for the Democrats. Why didn't I see that? Damn their eyes for helping people. DAMN THEIR EYES.

 

[The_Real_Mr_Sawyer]

Of course. Welfare's a scam to tax the rich so that the poor will vote for the Democrats. Why didn't I see that? Damn their eyes for helping people. DAMN THEIR EYES.

How bout creating new jobs for these people to work, so they wont be unemployed? Yeah, that'd work.

 

[GrnMarvl14]

How bout creating new jobs for these people to work, so they wont be unemployed? Yeah, that'd work.

They do do that. While the Republicans support outsourcing.

 

[The_Real_Mr_Sawyer]

They do do that. While the Republicans support outsourcing.

They dont support new jobs, otherwise, they would leave the minmum wage alone. Raising it only forces businesses to lay people off.

 

[GrnMarvl14]

They dont support new jobs, otherwise, they would leave the minmum wage alone. Raising it only forces businesses to lay people off.

Outsourcing helps Americans get jobs?

 

[Zeta]

Outsourcing helps Americans get jobs?

Provided they don't mind moving to India . . .

 

[The_Real_Mr_Sawyer]

Outsourcing helps Americans get jobs?

Outsourcing isnt the cause of people losing jobs, just look how low unemployment is.

 

[GrnMarvl14]

Outsourcing isnt the cause of people losing jobs, just look how low unemployment is.

Then what is? An unapproved raise in the minimum wage? Welfare? Those crazy liberals and their starting of the Iraq War? Their murderous onslaught of the poor, defenseless conservatives? And if unemployment is so low, then aren't the Democrats doing their jobs? Oh, right...they aren't responsible for that. They're only responsible for everything bad.

 

[TTEchidna]

They dont support new jobs, otherwise, they would leave the minmum wage alone. Raising it only forces businesses to lay people off.

Leave the minimum wage alone in a country whose economy is nearly completely driven by inflation (credit cards, anyone?) and soon you won't have enough money to get a ticket on a bus, let alone buy a gallon of gas, to get yourself to the job that's paying you that little. Cost outweighs the reward, person gets fired or quits.

 

[the gadfly]

Oh, hell. Since this thread has gone way off-topic, I might as well contribute to its waywardness.

Original source

Colorado to use inmates to fill migrant shortage
Tough laws passed last year against illegal immigration have created a need for farmworkers.
By Nicholas Riccardi, Times Staff Writer
March 1, 2007

DENVER — Ever since passing what its Legislature promoted as the nation's toughest laws against illegal immigration last summer, Colorado has struggled with a labor shortage as migrants fled the state. This week, officials announced a novel solution: Use convicts as farmworkers.

The Department of Corrections hopes to launch a pilot program this month — thought to be the first of its kind — that would contract with more than a dozen farms to provide inmates who will pick melons, onions and peppers.

Crops were left to spoil in the fields after the passage of legislation that required state identification to get government services and allowed police to check suspects' immigration status.

"The reason this [program] started is to make sure the agricultural industry wouldn't go out of business," state Rep. Dorothy Butcher said. Her district includes Pueblo, near the farmland where the inmates will work.

Prisoners who are a low security risk may choose to work in the fields, earning 60 cents a day. They also are eligible for small bonuses.

The inmates will be watched by prison guards, who will be paid by the farms. The cost is subject to negotiation, but farmers say they expect to pay more for the inmate labor and its associated costs than for their traditional workers.

Advocates on both sides of the immigration debate said they were stunned by the proposal.

"If they can't get slaves from Mexico, they want them from the jails," said Mark Krikorian of the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, which favors restrictions on immigration.

Ricardo Martinez of the Denver immigrant rights group Padres Unidos asked: "Are we going to pull in inmates to work in the service industry too? You won't have enough inmates — unless you start importing them from Texas."

Farmers said they weren't happy with the solution, but their livelihoods are on the verge of collapse.

"This prison labor is not a cure for the immigration problem; it's just a Band-Aid," farmer Joe Pisciotta said.

He said he needed to be sure he would have enough workers for the harvest this fall before he planted watermelons, onions and pumpkins on his 700-acre farm in Avondale. But he's not thrilled with the idea of criminals working his fields.

"I've got young kids," he said. "It's something I've got to think about."

Pisciotta said he hoped the program highlighted what he viewed as the absurdity of Colorado's position — dependent on immigrant labor but trying to chase migrants away. He said the people leaving were not just those who entered the country illegally.

"Some of them have said, 'We think our paperwork is in order, but how about if it's not and we get caught on a glitch,' " he said.

Ever since the Democratic-controlled Legislature took a tough turn on immigration, the new requirements have worried those in the country legally and illegally.

Immigrant advocates allege that some sheriffs have authorized deputies to pull over Latino drivers on supposed speeding violations and ask them whether they are in the country legally.

And more stringent requirements put into effect last year made it harder to get a driver's license. Numerous U.S. citizens, including the daughter of a state legislator, were refused licenses because they lacked proper proof of citizenship. A judge has since ruled that the requirements must be revised.

Social service agencies say they have discovered few illegal immigrants on public assistance since the laws were passed.

Immigrant and business groups agree that the heated rhetoric has led to an exodus of Latinos — though no one is sure how many. Businesses including carwashes and construction firms have complained of a worker shortage.

"It's like, 'Don't go visit that house, there's a guy with a shotgun at the door,' " said state Rep. Rafael Gallegos, who represents a heavily Latino agricultural district in south-central Colorado. He voted against most of the legislation.

Farmers on Monday met with state officials at the Capitol here to discuss using inmate labor. The Department of Corrections expects to begin sending about 100 prisoners to work on farms near Pueblo this month.

Some of the state's 22,000 prisoners have agricultural experience. Convicts can participate in programs on prison grounds to break wild horses and grow crops. About 700 inmates work in other jobs outside prison, such as on fire crews.

Ari Zavaras, the executive director of the Department of Corrections, said he knew of no other prison system in the nation using convicts to fill agricultural labor shortages.

In California, where growers also have complained about a lack of workers, inmates have not labored in private fields since the 1940s. Prisoners then were used as farmhands while laborers were fighting in World War II, said Terry Thornton, a spokeswoman for the California Department of Corrections.

"The idea [of using prisoners on farms] has been floated before, but these are not unskilled jobs. They're jobs that require a lot of training and supervision," said David Kranz, a spokesman for the California Farm Bureau Federation. "It doesn't seem like a very practical alternative."

Krikorian, of the Center for Immigration Studies, said the Colorado prison experiment was "a sign that there are solutions other than importing foreign labor."

He said "ultimately they're going to have to improve the wages and working conditions" to attract legal workers, as well as to mechanize parts of their farming operations.

Colorado's experience shows that hard-line measures have an effect on illegal immigrants, Krikorian added, noting that arrests had dropped along the U.S.-Mexico border since security was increased last year.

"We're seeing enforcement work, not just in Colorado," he said, "but all over the country."

Please note, Mr. Sawyer, it was those dispicable liberal Democrats in Colorado who caused the problems in Colorado. Maybe you approve their actions.

 

[Girafarig_Magcargo]

Oh, hell. Since this thread has gone way off-topic, I might as well contribute to its waywardness.

Original source



Please note, Mr. Sawyer, it was those dispicable liberal Democrats in Colorado who caused the problems in Colorado. Maybe you approve their actions.

Of course there's going to be a problem immediately after all the illegals leave. The criminals are just the short fix, but once unemployed people don't have to compete with aliens, they'll be able to fill the positions.

 

[The_Real_Mr_Sawyer]

Leave the minimum wage alone in a country whose economy is nearly completely driven by inflation (credit cards, anyone?) and soon you won't have enough money to get a ticket on a bus, let alone buy a gallon of gas, to get yourself to the job that's paying you that little. Cost outweighs the reward, person gets fired or quits.

Well, how would raising the wage help anyone? Its the same amount of money, the minimum wage, it always will be. All you do by raising it, is put MORE people on minimum wage. Businesses are either going to pay their good workers less, or lay off their baggage. Sounds to me like minimum wage helps nobody, and is just an illusion many people blindly buy into.


Heres a little story

The government decided to give each of its people a gift. A gift of 15 billion bucks. No taxes taken off, and no bankruptcy, they got more than enough money to cover everyone.(This isnt meant to mirror America's current state) Anyway, everyone cashes their checks in the mail, and they go to the store to buy something. Many try the real estate agencies, but nobody is there, they had recieved their money as well, and are off someone where else. Some try the car dealerships, but nobody is there, they are off somewhere else. Some try to buy high tech electronics, but nobody is working at the stores. Nobody is out working anywhere, cause nobody has an reason to work. Since everybody is RICH, why work?

 

[GrnMarvl14]

You seem to think that an increase in minimum wage would affect EVERYONE. It wouldn't. MANY people (if not MOST) make ABOVE minimum wage. What a minimum wage increase does is bring those people on the bottom rungs just a few steps closer to the middle. A minimum wage hike isn't going to bring about inflation on its own. Yes, certain companies might have to raise costs, but not enough to actually affect anything to a great extent. By raising the minimum wage, we're bringing people who work 40+ hours a week and still live in poverty closer to a life they can be proud of. Closer to a life where they don't spend every waking hour at work and can enjoy their families, where their children have a hope for a better future and haven't given up before the race has already started. By increasing the minimum wage, we're giving people a shot at improving themselves and their lives. Odds are, FAR more than likely, that YOU and everyone you know, will NOT be in ANY way affected by this.

 

[The_Real_Mr_Sawyer]

You seem to think that an increase in minimum wage would affect EVERYONE. It wouldn't. MANY people (if not MOST) make ABOVE minimum wage. What a minimum wage increase does is bring those people on the bottom rungs just a few steps closer to the middle. A minimum wage hike isn't going to bring about inflation on its own. Yes, certain companies might have to raise costs, but not enough to actually affect anything to a great extent. By raising the minimum wage, we're bringing people who work 40+ hours a week and still live in poverty closer to a life they can be proud of. Closer to a life where they don't spend every waking hour at work and can enjoy their families, where their children have a hope for a better future and haven't given up before the race has already started. By increasing the minimum wage, we're giving people a shot at improving themselves and their lives. Odds are, FAR more than likely, that YOU and everyone you know, will NOT be in ANY way affected by this.

Yeah, and those who make above the minimum wage, now make less. Think about it, say the wage became 10 bucks an hour, and I made 10 bucks an hour before that. You saying that my employer is going to give me a raise to 20 bucks an hour.(I used to make nearly 2x the wage) Not my boss. We don't live in an idea world. And you seem to think that raising the wage is going to put less people on it. All raising the wage does, is make more people working minimum wage. If you don't get a raise after so many years, find a better job.

 

[GrnMarvl14]

Yeah, and those who make above the minimum wage, now make less. Think about it, say the wage became 10 bucks an hour, and I made 10 bucks an hour before that. You saying that my employer is going to give me a raise to 20 bucks an hour.(I used to make nearly 2x the wage) Not my boss. We don't live in an idea world. And you seem to think that raising the wage is going to put less people on it. All raising the wage does, is make more people working minimum wage. If you don't get a raise after so many years, find a better job.

1. I never said that a minimum wage increase would mean that EVERYONE gets a wage increase. What I said was that everyone making below what the new minimum wage is would get a wage increase. Yes, this would most likely mean an increase in the number of people making the minimum wage. But...then the minimum wage might actually be bearable for people.

2. Not everyone can find a better job. As you already pointed out, this isn't an "idea world".