Ash's 6 strongest pokemon

[Imtnt]

So now that we close an era - what pokemon do you think are the strongest to build a team?
So we have to compare them by what Ash got ao far.
You can evaluate every pokemon as a standalone or chose them 6 by a smart combination.. It is all fair.

 

[Handy Man]

A lot of people would say something like Pikachu, Charizard, Sceptile, Infernape, Greninja, and Snorlax, or some variation of that. However, Pokémon Journeys has factually given us Ash’s strongest Pokémon. Pikachu, Dragonite, Gengar, Lucario, Sirfetch’d, and Dracovish are the only Pokémon Ash owns that took down champions from other regions, and are the six Pokémon that won him the World Champion title. Objectively, that makes Ash’s Journeys team his strongest Pokémon. It’s also worth noting that Wolfe Glick, a competitive VGC player, also thinks that Ash’s Journeys team is his strongest one.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

I say Ash’s JN team considering they literally beat World Champions. After that would be Sceptile, Charizard, Snorlax, Incineroar, Naganadel (in no order). Then Infernape. And then Ash Greninja. The reason why I put all these Pokémon before Ash Greninja is because as a Greninja, it never beat two Pokémon in the same battle on screen and it’s best feat was defeating Sawyer’s newbie Mega Sceptile… and then lost in embarrassing fashion to Alain’s MCX, an opponent it should have beaten.

 

[nickdt]

His Journeys team minus Lucario...

From Strongest to weakest in his strongest team
Pikachu
Sirfetch'd (Took down Champion mons and a Mega Ace from an E4 member)
Dracovish (Took down Champion mons)
Charizard (Took down legendaries)
Dragonite (Took down Champion mons, but hasn't proven itself against the champion mons compared to Sirfetch'd and Dracovish during the Masters Eight)
Gengar.

Now... my reasoning for excluding Lucario is this.

Lucario's base power (So without the form)... doesn't come close to that of its journeys team mates, especially if we compare the base feats of all five PWC combatants (Not counting Pikachu, who was on numer 1 by default regardless) and Lucario had literally the worse showing in the PWC as well.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

His Journeys team minus Lucario...

From Strongest to weakest in his strongest team
Pikachu
Sirfetch'd (Took down Champion mons and a Mega Ace from an E4 member)
Dracovish (Took down Champion mons)
Charizard (Took down legendaries)
Dragonite (Took down Champion mons, but hasn't proven itself against the champion mons compared to Sirfetch'd and Dracovish during the Masters Eight)
Gengar.

Now... my reasoning for excluding Lucario is this.

Lucario's base power (So without the form)... doesn't come close to that of its journeys team mates, especially if we compare the base feats of all five PWC combatants (Not counting Pikachu, who was on numer 1 by default regardless) and Lucario had literally the worse showing in the PWC as well.

Lucario in its base form with Aura one shot Raihan’s Duraludon

 

[Broseph08]

I posted this elsewhere so I'll copy it. I have it based on tiers

1. Pikachu
2. Greninja/Lucario
3. Sirfetch'd/Dracovish
4. Charizard/Infernape/Dragonite/Gengar
5. Sceptile/Snorlax

Everyone else is after that but I'm too lazy to do that lol. Surprisingly, I do think Sirfetch'd and Dracovish established themselves as the best of the JN team after Lucario which I never would have predicted. They did fantastic in the M8. Dracovish forcing Steven to recall Metagross, beating Roserade and getting a good shot at Milotic, and beating that broken Rillaboom. I also think it would have beaten Leon's Dragapult if it weren't for Dragon Tail. Sirfetch'd beating Milotic and making Cynthia's Garchomp was crazy and even though it didn't get any wins against Leon, it was a big reason why Dragapult and Rillaboom ended up going down

 

[MimeyTheKeeper]

This obviously suffers from Journeys/PWC power scaling issues and that we have not seen the past aces in proper form for a long time - a when we saw them at least a little bit, Greninja schooled Lucario, Infernape was stretching his muscles against legendary...so who is here to judge? It is reasonable that they have become even better when we last saw them in competition.

And giving this sorts of opinion, important question always is - do we compare them generally (like which Pokémon is the best against all thinkable opponents) or against each other (where typing plays a big part, even when they are pretty evenly matched generally). The former, general, approach makes more sense IMHO.
But I would say the average of opinions is pretty clear and as poll shows, this is the most balanced numbering you will get...

1. Pikachu - in his peak form. With Pikachu being ever-present, it is Pokémon who is the first one where we must take into account his form. Meaning not like regional form or something, but more akin to sports parable, even the best sportsmen prepare their condition to be at their best when the important tournament comes, they are not undefeatable 365 days a year - Pikachu being small mouse, at least that is the most reasonable head-cannon - must abide by similar rules. So he loses here and there against some Grapploct but when last 3 big tournaments (Kalos, Alola and PWC) had come, he was MVP and arguably has given the best performance of any Pokémon ever in PWC final match. So Pikachu in his peak conditon with all gimmicks is N. 1, unquestionably.

2. Lucario - because Mega, because Aura, because Steel typing and because defeating Cynthia's Garchomp.

3. Greninja - in his Ash-Greninja form which will hopefully see at least one last time. There is much debate how PWC team beat champions. But IMHO Greninja advanced so much, that it is the only Pokémon that would not only edge-off, but could even soundly beat two absolute aces (yes, favourable typing plays part , but his iconic speed as well) - Steven's Mega-Metagross and Diantha's Mega-Gardevoir (which he was close to even before Kalos League). The only thing that puts him after Lucario is less favourable typing in general.

4. Charizard - the first gimmickless Pokémon and rightly so. And the most obscure, since we have not seen him battle much lately, the most recent memory is schooling Iris's Dragonite. And also being overshadowed by Alain's and Leon's ones. But it is still battle-hardened, very experienced and proficient "air-battle" Pokémon who first defeated Legendary. It is hard to imagine him not doing anything that other Pokémon of Ash's PWC lineup did in PWC sans Pikachu and maybe Lucario. IMHO when I saw Lance's Dragonite being tank and taking all those Ice/Rock/Fairy attacks of Diantha's Pokémon, I though, yep - I would like to see this king of Kanto and Johto square it with Ash's Charizard. I would say they would be similarly matched, no gimmicks, fits Charizard's long experience and rivalry with various Dragonites and would be pleasure to see. (Very small hope "Aim to be a Pokémon Master" mini series will give us something like that).

5. Infernape - because Blaze and because you saw him dodge that Gengar's unwillfully released Will-O-Wisp? I am still little bit sad he was not used to soften-up Leon's Charizard or to put his overpowered Rillaboom, but Journeys' team deserved its spotlight. With that said, Infernape deserves his victory against some Legendary.

6. Sceptile - yes, yes, Darkrai - what would you expect me to say? But still, imagine him in his Mega-Form?

And yes - good doggo Lycanroc, Incineroar, Melmetal, Snorlax, Krookodile and whole rest of Journeys gang Dragonite, Gengar, Sirfetch'd and Dracovish could make case for one of the spots. But with all fighting more or less done, it is hard to say whether we will get any definitive answer from AniPoke. So it is here to be debated to till the end of times I guess.

But on the other hand, me personally would be very glad to see the BIG 6 in their top form to perform last one time (on any occasion).

 

[nickdt]

This obviously suffers from Journeys/PWC power scaling issues and that we have not seen the past aces in proper form for a long time - a when we saw them at least a little bit, Greninja schooled Lucario, Infernape was stretching his muscles against legendary...so who is here to judge? It is reasonable that they have become even better when we last saw them in competition.

And giving this sorts of opinion, important question always is - do we compare them generally (like which Pokémon is the best against all thinkable opponents) or against each other (where typing plays a big part, even when they are pretty evenly matched generally). The former, general, approach makes more sense IMHO.
But I would say the average of opinions is pretty clear and as poll shows, this is the most balanced numbering you will get...

1. Pikachu - in his peak form. With Pikachu being ever-present, it is Pokémon who is the first one where we must take into account his form. Meaning not like regional form or something, but more akin to sports parable, even the best sportsmen prepare their condition to be at their best when the important tournament comes, they are not undefeatable 365 days a year - Pikachu being small mouse, at least that is the most reasonable head-cannon - must abide by similar rules. So he loses here and there against some Grapploct but when last 3 big tournaments (Kalos, Alola and PWC) had come, he was MVP and arguably has given the best performance of any Pokémon ever in PWC final match. So Pikachu in his peak conditon with all gimmicks is N. 1, unquestionably.

2. Lucario - because Mega, because Aura, because Steel typing and because defeating Cynthia's Garchomp.

3. Greninja - in his Ash-Greninja form which will hopefully see at least one last time. There is much debate how PWC team beat champions. But IMHO Greninja advanced so much, that it is the only Pokémon that would not only edge-off, but could even soundly beat two absolute aces (yes, favourable typing plays part , but his iconic speed as well) - Steven's Mega-Metagross and Diantha's Mega-Gardevoir (which he was close to even before Kalos League). The only thing that puts him after Lucario is less favourable typing in general.

4. Charizard - the first gimmickless Pokémon and rightly so. And the most obscure, since we have not seen him battle much lately, the most recent memory is schooling Iris's Dragonite. And also being overshadowed by Alain's and Leon's ones. But it is still battle-hardened, very experienced and proficient "air-battle" Pokémon who first defeated Legendary. It is hard to imagine him not doing anything that other Pokémon of Ash's PWC lineup did in PWC sans Pikachu and maybe Lucario. IMHO when I saw Lance's Dragonite being tank and taking all those Ice/Rock/Fairy attacks of Diantha's Pokémon, I though, yep - I would like to see this king of Kanto and Johto square it with Ash's Charizard. I would say they would be similarly matched, no gimmicks, fits Charizard's long experience and rivalry with various Dragonites and would be pleasure to see. (Very small hope "Aim to be a Pokémon Master" mini series will give us something like that).

5. Infernape - because Blaze and because you saw him dodge that Gengar's unwillfully released Will-O-Wisp? I am still little bit sad he was not used to soften-up Leon's Charizard or to put his overpowered Rillaboom, but Journeys' team deserved its spotlight. With that said, Infernape deserves his victory against some Legendary.

6. Sceptile - yes, yes, Darkrai - what would you expect me to say? But still, imagine him in his Mega-Form?

And yes - good doggo Lycanroc, Incineroar, Melmetal, Snorlax, Krookodile and whole rest of Journeys gang Dragonite, Gengar, Sirfetch'd and Dracovish could make case for one of the spots. But with all fighting more or less done, it is hard to say whether we will get any definitive answer from AniPoke. So it is here to be debated to till the end of times I guess.

But on the other hand, me personally would be very glad to see the BIG 6 in their top form to perform last one time (on any occasion).

Umm... where are Glalie and Talonflame on the could make one of the spots list?

 

[Imtnt]

So far I think surpriaes me Sceptile - he is not that obvious choise. Nice to see in the poll.

I voted for Lycanroc because of the type, the coverage, the Z move, and the extra connection between him and Ash (in and off training).

I'll just say the hardest part was keeping only one fire type pokemon in the strongest 6 (just a feeling I had). so I voted Infernape and not Charizard. As lame as it sounds, Maybe I wouldn't do so if Charizard was the one leaving Oak in order to fight a legendary pokemon. Or if Ash was using him for some episodes in Jns.. but for now I feel it is Infernape is the better option.

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

A lot of people would say something like Pikachu, Charizard, Sceptile, Infernape, Greninja

This +Lucario.

 

[-PokemonBattleFanatic-]

I doubt Sceptile would have as many votes as it does now if it never defeated Tobias's Darkrai.People very rarely mention what it did during the Battle Frontier and just go straight to what it did at the Sinnoh League.

The JN series made it clear to me that Pikachu is Ash's strongest pokemon with a gimmick and in it's base form,prior I had it tied with Charizard.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Now... my reasoning for excluding Lucario is this.

Lucario's base power (So without the form)... doesn't come close to that of its journeys team mates, especially if we compare the base feats of all five PWC combatants (Not counting Pikachu, who was on numer 1 by default regardless) and Lucario had literally the worse showing in the PWC as well.

Which I find needlessly pedantic since it’s the exact same Pokémon. There was nothing said about forms in the post. Mega Lucario is the same individual as Lucario and Ash-Greninja is the same individual as Greninja,

 

[skynerel]

1. Oshawott
2. Boldore
3. Scraggy
4. Totodile
5. Butterfree
6. Torkoal

 

[Imtnt]

Which I find needlessly pedantic since it’s the exact same Pokémon. There was nothing said about forms in the post. Mega Lucario is the same individual as Lucario and Ash-Greninja is the same individual as Greninja,

Just want to add my opinion. Lucario got a bad treatment overall, as he wouldn't be able to finish battles if not for his rushed Mega Aura Ball or his Reversal.. BUT if we put aside his Bullet Punch and his Blue Aura as he is connected to Ash, he wasn't animated at all as OP pokemon; His Double Team was way behind what we saw from Gninja for example. His endure was not even a thing mentioned. Too many episodes were Reversal-less untill using it in the Semis.

But if we put the bad wrting/animation he is top 3, no doubt, due to the plot:

• Ash got a way to connect with pokemon
• Ash as a human got extra Aura treatment
• Mega stone
• Egg connection
• Dreamy moveset
• Training mood
• Ash is champion lvl while training him - Pikachu, Lucario and Sirfetch'd shined the most in his m8 run for being ranked 1st. 3 of them were winning against the aces of the other top 3 champions. In contrast for what Ash was while training over powered Charizard for example, he couldn't back then make the best of it even though some best moments. It doesn't mean Charizard could not get Mega evolution in the future but we can say it about other pokemon, after some training and exp with current Ash moat of them can make it to the top 6.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Ash’s Lucario had a more satisfying arc than Greninja because it beat Cynthia and became World Champion while Greninja is known as a league loser that got released and it’s iconic form deleted.

 

[nickdt]

Which I find needlessly pedantic since it’s the exact same Pokémon. There was nothing said about forms in the post. Mega Lucario is the same individual as Lucario and Ash-Greninja is the same individual as Greninja,

Yes... its the exact same Pokemon and exact the same indivual... but not when its in a power-up form. Then its powers get enhanced and all the Journeys team, except for Lucario, as well as Charizard, Sceptile and Snorlax at least have proven they can defeat stronger opponents without needing acces to a power-up form. And as you see, i haven't included Infernape in my example either... cuz it relied on Blaze to much for my liking, meaning it was pushed to its limits a lot more than Charizard and Sceptile for example... meaning i see it as inferior strenght wise compared to them (But Infernape is still a strong battler without blaze though and has proven itself without blaze as well).

Despite this however... Lucario never defeated a stronger opponent (Read: Gigantamax/Mega Evolution) in its base form. It always needed to rely on its Mega Form to do so (And yes... while it technically defeated Gigantamax Duraludon... yet again it relied on something different than its raw power, its Aura Power, which enhanched its raw power).

Lucario is a strong Pokemon, but it isn't as strong as people give it credit for (Its not in his top 6 battlers, but it is in the top 12, thats for sure), this mainly comes because we cannot measure its strenght properly due to its reliance on Mega Evolution.

The top 15 would be this
1. Pikachu
2. Sirfetch'd
3. Dracovish
4. Lucario (MEGA)
5. Greninja (ASH-GRENINJA)
6. Charizard
7. Dragonite
8. Gengar
9. Sceptile
10 Infernape
11. Snorlax
12. Lucario (Base form)
12. Glalie
13. Krookodile
14. Talonflame
15. Greninja (Base form).

Like, i personally can't include an enhanced power form in the feats of a base power form... especially when the teammates have proven not needing to rely on a battle form to outclass the one with the form by defeating stronger opponents in base form. Combining the enhanced power feats and base power feats is unfair imo... since it makes a Pokemon look stronger than it actually is if we look at feats in base form.

Both Lucario and Greninja fall into this pitfall... but also Gengar.

 

[Imtnt]

The top 15 would be this
1. Pikachu
2. Sirfetch'd
3. Dracovish
4. Lucario (MEGA)
5. Greninja (ASH-GRENINJA)
6. Charizard
7. Dragonite
8. Gengar
9. Sceptile
10 Infernape
11. Snorlax
12. Lucario (Base form)
12. Glalie
13. Krookodile
14. Talonflame
15. Greninja (Base form).

Should you add other Zmove/Gmax states? Such as Gengar Gmax, Lycanroc Zmove..

It seems that if Lucario wont mega evolve you wouldn't put him on the 6. So what about Lycanroc is alowed to use a Z move due to not using any other gimick in hand? Will it mater?

 

[nickdt]

Should you add other Zmove/Gmax states? Such as Gengar Gmax, Lycanroc Zmove..

It seems that if Lucario wont mega evolve you wouldn't put him on the 6. So what about Lycanroc is alowed to use a Z move due to not using any other gimick in hand? Will it mater?

Difference between mega and z-move is that z-move is a one use and doesnt enhance stats. Mega last the whole battle and do enhance stats. Thats why j see mega as a power up and z-moves as last Ditch effort to gain the win

 

[Imtnt]

Difference between mega and z-move is that z-move is a one use and doesnt enhance stats. Mega last the whole battle and do enhance stats. Thats why j see mega as a power up and z-moves as last Ditch effort to gain the win

Thought you might say that. Fair enough.
In my eyes you could just consider Lucario and Gninja as their max form.

Making it Top 15 is too hard cause it is more about our own taste. In the Top 6 there are 3-4 pokemon everyone could agree on.
But I'll try to put mine in some order:

1. Pikachu
2-3. Mega Lucario / Ash-Greninja
4. Sirfetch'd
5-6. Charizard / Infernape (but not together in 6)
7. Lycanroc
8. Gengar
9-10. Sceptile / Incineroar
11. Dracovish
12. Melmetal
13. Heracross
14. Dragonite
15. Snorlax

 

[Imtnt]

It is intereating to see how no one votes for pokemon from the Kalos team (not including Pika/Gninja) and there were so many of us claiming Ash should have won back then.

Do we ignore how good was that team because of the result? Or is it because the focus had been on Gninja (plot/training)? I do think they were all powerful and I did put them all on the poll but Noivern.