Mafia disney infinity mafia! ENDGAME: 1.0/2.0 joint win!

[Snowy]

Truth be told, I'm not sure the win conditions were equal. I mean, ours required no strategy.

You had to keep enough of your players alive to get the actions through by N3. Your wincon was pretty much survival like ours, and probably even more harder for you, because if you were to lose 2 people too early (bar you, Heroic) you were done, while we had to lose 4 to get done. In all honesty, Heroic, you were the most disposable as soon as you vigged SM N1.

I had considered that quite early. But Life's ability meant that I could not be the first one to die no matter what because then Life's ability would have been wasted. Denial, Froakie or ME had to be the first to die, if we were to use Life's ability.

2.0's a moderate strategy, needing to survive until endgame meaning they didn't want to draw too much attention... and then ride off the back of another win.

"Ride off the back of another win" makes me feel like we are the lazy guys... but indeed the only way for us to win alone is if any of you didn't get your wincons by N8 or less than three people remained... which means just two 2.0 alive.

Lol, Sorry. I didn't mean it that way. Definitely not lazy, just a wincon that relied on the wincon of the other two teams OR defeating the other two teams enough by N8.

Out of curiousity... ME and I staged a little diversion to try to make people think we weren't on the same team a couple of pages back. Did that work?

 

[Zexy]

@badasstroperMCH; @Flopunny;
The 1.0 Kingmakers scenario
In case some of you don’t know what Kingmaker means, they are a person who is playing the game but can’t win it in any case, or has already won it but didn’t die (a few indeps could fall under this category, winning indeps generally get removed from the game by the hosts so that they won’t become Kingmakers). Kingmakers are essentially players that are around and can influence the game without them getting something out of it. The entire 1.0 faction could easily become this, giving the game more than one Kingmaker. Let’s see the following scenario:

Day 1
Some 1.0 was lynched (Maniacal couldn’t stop it with his ability). Let’s say Froakie. Life becomes a Commuter. ABILITY COUNT: 1 (Maniacal)
Night 1
HeroicPooch vigs someone (doesn’t matter which faction)
Life commutes
Denial can’t spy because he doesn’t know a faction name, since a 1.0 original was killed. OR, I don’t even know if it is allowed, decides to spy the 1.0 originals just for the action to count.
The 1.0 originals nightkill someone.
ABILITY COUNT: 3 or 4 (depends on whether Denial is allowed to spy)
NOTE: I would like to believe the first kill was given on you so that this would be averted for as long as possible.
Day 2
It doesn’t matter how many people died N1, could be between 0-2. (If HeroicPooch’s vig would fail, would his action count?)
Life is lynched (Maniacal couldn’t stop it again!). ABILITY COUNT: 4 or 5
Night 2
Denial might be able to spy or not.
The Jedi kill Maniacal.
ABILITY COUNT: 4 or 6
Here we are. It is impossible for 1.0 to win the game. If Denial and HeroicPooch would get removed from the game, it would be a battle between the Heroes and the Jedi. Heroes should lynch all the Jedi. Best case scenario for Heroes is 5 of them against 3 Jedi. They have Day 3 lynch control, so 5 Heroes 2 Jedi. They have Night 3 kill, so 5 Heroes, 1 Jedi. The have Day 4 lynch control, so 5 Heroes without Jedi… yet technically they haven’t reached endgame/win yet! In order for them to do, they must either No Lynch/No Kill until Night 8 or kill 3 of themselves so that less than three people remain in the game.
If it was 5 Jedi 3 Heroes the Jedi could easily kill Heroes until the two they had to kill are out of the game, then they would win. It is possible that the Heroes win as well if this happens fast enough. If it was 4 Heroes 4 Jedi then D3 would be no lynch, N3 a Jedi death, then lynch control and so on. Unfair for the Jedi right? You can say it is their fault since they killed Maniacal and made this happen.
What if Denial and HeroicPooch did not get removed from the game though? Next day phase, they could pretty much decide which faction of the others wins despite them not being able to win for themselves. You can even expect them to decide based on personal friendships! This ruins the balance of the game.

Disclaimer:
1) Not saying that Denial/Heroic would really do this, it’s just a possible scenario in the game, and the players involved could be whoever. It’s just that the 1.0 faction has to trigger this.
2) Please don’t get mad at me, badass/Flop, for pointing out a flaw in the game balance. I’m trying to explain what could’ve been done better, no hard feelings please.

And a link about this: Kingmaker (term) - MafiaWiki

 

[longhair75]

This game was a strange one to start my involvement here. I have never played anything like this, and it seemed like what little mafia skill set I have was inapplicable to the game.

 

[Zexy]

This game was a strange one to start my involvement here. I have never played anything like this, and it seemed like what little mafia skill set I have was inapplicable to the game.

Indeed. I've heard you are a very good player and am glad I was in an alliance with you. But you couldn't really shine with scumhunting skills here.
Although you've confused the 1.0 enough they thought you are a 3.0 which is something.

OH, also forgot to congratulate @Sword Master; for a good doc play. That was a nice save, too bad it got disregarded because of host mistake...

 

[Sword Master]

OH, also forgot to congratulate @Sword Master; for a good doc play. That was a nice save, too bad it got disregarded because of host mistake...

Thanks .

 

[longhair75]

This game was a strange one to start my involvement here. I have never played anything like this, and it seemed like what little mafia skill set I have was inapplicable to the game.

Indeed. I've heard you are a very good player and am glad I was in an alliance with you. But you couldn't really shine with scumhunting skills here.
Although you've confused the 1.0 enough they thought you are a 3.0 which is something.

OH, also forgot to congratulate @Sword Master; for a good doc play. That was a nice save, too bad it got disregarded because of host mistake...

Jerome likes to exaggerate. I am just a mediocre player that sometimes gets lucky.

 

[ReturnofMCH]

yeah I admit I came up with the win conditions on the fly, but the overall balance was good but not perfect as flop told me in a PM while we were planning this. I just got lazy and jumped the gun. but good enough don't you agree?
EDIT: life's role was my idea for balance BTW so that was a good save on my part

 

[Zexy]

yeah I admit I came up with the win conditions on the fly, but the overall balance was good but not perfect as flop told me in a PM while we were planning this. I just got lazy and jumped the gun. but good enough don't you agree?
EDIT: life's role was my idea for balance BTW so that was a good save on my part

Just please try to be a little careful not to give people win conditions that might become impossible long before endgame, or make sure to remove them if that happens.
Yeah Life's role was definitely needed for balance. It didn't prove useful in practice but when balancing you don't just assume a faction will do optimal play.