Finalization discussion~

[paperfairy]

With the release of D/P a little over a month away, I think that we should get some stuff finalized, so that we're totally ready when the games arrive. Issues are ordered from most to least important.

BATTLE RULESET

I motion that the following ruleset become the offical ruleset for the BMG League.

SEASON RULES:

* Trainers must document the following information after every battle, in order for the battle to count. The documentation should follow this format:

Opposing Trainer:
Outcome:
Your Party:

Pokémon 1
Species Name(Gender)** Nickname
Ability
Shiny?
Unown Letter?
East/West Shellos?
Arecus Plate?
Burmy Type?
Wormadam Type?
Deoxys Form?

Pokémon 2
Species Name(Gender)** Nickname
Ability
Shiny?
Unown Letter?
East/West Shellos?
Arecus Plate?
Burmy Type?
Wormadam Type?
Deoxys Form?

Pokémon 3
Species Name(Gender)** Nickname
Ability
Shiny?
Unown Letter?
East/West Shellos?
Arecus Plate?
Burmy Type?
Wormadam Type?
Deoxys Form?

Pokémon 4
Species Name(Gender)** Nickname
Ability
Shiny?
Unown Letter?
East/West Shellos?
Arecus Plate?
Burmy Type?
Wormadam Type?
Deoxys Form?

Pokémon 5
Species Name(Gender)** Nickname
Ability
Shiny?
Unown Letter?
East/West Shellos?
Arecus Plate?
Burmy Type?
Wormadam Type?
Deoxys Form?

Pokémon 6
Species Name(Gender)** Nickname
Ability
Shiny?
Unown Letter?
East/West Shellos?
Arecus Plate?
Burmy Type?
Wormadam Type?
Deoxys Form?

(This only applies to standard league battles, the grand tourney, and cups.)

* In order for battles to count, both trainers must verify the outcome.

STANDARD LEAGUE BATTLE/SUPER GRAND TOURNEY RULES:

Battle Style: Single or double battle, battlers can decide before the battle occurs.

Level: Open Level

Species: The following species are 100% banned:

Mewtwo
Wobbuffet
Lugia
Ho-oh
Wynaut
Latios
Latias
Kyogre
Groudon
Rayquaza
Deoxys (all forms)
Dialga
Palkia
Giratina
Darkrai
Arseus

Clauses:
The following clauses are in effect during battle:
- Sleep Clause (Only one Pokémon can alseep at a time.)

- Freeze Clause (Only one Pokémon can frozen at a time.)

- Self Destruct Clause (If a user uses a self KO move that eliminates both teams completely, the user of the move loses.

- Species Clause (In battle, each of the three Pokémon in a party must be unique. Different forms do not count as a seperate Pokémon.)


SMALLER TOURNEY (CUPS) RULES

Battle Style: Single or double battle, battlers can decide before the battle occurs.

Level: Can be altered depending on the cup.

Species: Can be altered depending on the cup.

Clauses:
The following clauses are in effect during battle:
- Sleep Clause (Only one Pokémon can alseep at a time.)

- Freeze Clause (Only one Pokémon can frozen at a time.)

- Self Destruct Clause (If a user uses a self KO move that eliminates both teams completely, the user of the move loses.

- Species Clause (In battle, each of the three Pokémon in a party must be unique. Different forms do not count as a seperate Pokémon.)

LEAGUE STYLE

I motion that the following style outline become the offical style for the BMG League.

The BMG League is a freestyle league in which players can challenge each others in order to accumlate wins. When a battle is conducted under offical league rules, the battle is recorded, and each player has a Win/Loss record.

League officals are allowed to declare several cups and smaller tourneys, at any given time during the season. (Seasons last one year, much like the League in the PokéSpecial manga) Wins in these tourneys count towards offical league wins. Said cups and smaller tourneys should be announced a mnth in advance.

Gyms will be open during the season, in which challengers can challenge the Gym Leader for badges. (The exact rules of Gyms and the Leader Selection Test has yet to be discussed)

At the end of a season, a grand tourney is held to find out who is the supreme battler of the season. The method for finding participants is detailed here, but needs finalization: http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showthread.php?t=17770&page=4

SHOP

Only three people voted in the shop thread. T_T

http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showthread.php?t=17907

LEAGUE NAME
Vote for a name!

http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showthread.php?t=18402

OFFICALS

We've yet to decide how officals are going to be decided, but I motion that officals are chosen through nomination and then a voting process.

 

[Surgo]

Both this whole "registering your pokemon" thing, and stadium mode, are serious turn-offs. Seriously, the only reason to ever use Stadium Mode is when you're playing on stadium, where the battles take forever due to the animations. I also change my teams a lot when I find something not working so well.

That "shop thread" linked is a contest thread...

As I said before, if this forum isn't renamed Bulbasaur's Wireless Garden, the terrorists will have won.

 

[Æsahættr]

The only qualm I have with the battle rules is that I don't think the players should have to show their movesets before a match. Will they be publicly viewable?

 

[paperfairy]

See, NOW you guys complain, but you two were nowhere to be seen when the discussions were actually happning.

- Register Pokémon thing
Pie, myself and apparently Zhen feel that we should be able to look at who we're battling before we battle, to get a feel for what we're up against; very similar to the Stadium games and the anime. So yes, I feel these should be publicly viewable. If you want to change, register a new one.

- Shop link fixed.

- Stadium mode was just shoven in to have shorter battles, but I personally don't care either way. You seem to be the only one against it Surgo. ^_^

 

[Surgo]

I'm sorry, I though this thread had "discussion" in the title. If we aren't meant to actually discuss these rules and possibly change them, please edit that out. And in fact, I do remember chiming in in that thread, "if this is how it's going to be then forget it".

I know if I have to use the same twenty pokemon all "season" (what is a season anyway?), I surely will not be playing as I change pokemon and teams too often for that to be accomodating. What's up with twenty, anyway? That's not even divisible by 6, or 3 if people are so stuck on stadium mode.

I also know I'll be having few, if any, "official" battles if they all have to be stadium mode.

 

[paperfairy]

1. Uh..... yeah. XD

2. Season is one year, stated above. This is because it takes quite a while to raise an entire team, especially for cups and such. However, this will prolly get changed.... XD

3. Hm, Surgo has a point. Now that I think about it, I change a lot too.
But then, should we remove documentation all together? I still like the idea of a giant Trainer database, but I can't see to find a happy medium between the two.

4. As for Stadium Mode, I'm curious as to how many other people are against this....

 

[TTEchidna]

Well, if the season is a year, then it'll have to be just shy of it to make sure that all of the tournament can fit.

 

[s|ush]

Im not quite sure that I like the idea of having to show my movesets off. I mean where is the element of surprise in that. You have just got a huge COUNTER ME sign on your back! Seeing types of Pokemon and Pokemon themselves is ok so you can pick a team based on type (if you so wish) but as we all know movesets can be made up of many types so you could be giving away your hidden weapon, or big surprise move which in my opinion is just silly.
Also if, which I agree to, it is a yearly comp how do we go about getting there. I mean are we doing the gym route for the Majour Tournement? As that would sort out the time scale, but if not I mean a year is a long time to just sit around and train.

 

[Zhen Lin]

Security by obscurity is not security at all. In other words, you should not need to rely on secrecy and surprise to win.

 

[paperfairy]

A year is also plenty of time to practice.

As far the COUNTER ME thing, you can also look at your opponents team, and make a counter accordingly. That adds to the fun; both players attempting to cancel the other out.

EDIT: What Zhen said. Also Zhen, how do you feel about the whole 20 thing?

 

[s|ush]

Yeah I guess so. I just dunno about it thats all. I can't fully explain why as I'm not to sure myself but its just a bit weird.
Ah well I can easily cope with it

 

[Surgo]

Security by obscurity is not security at all. In other words, you should not need to rely on secrecy and surprise to win.

This is true in cryptography, but in Pokemon battles since Advance (and even before Advance), the element of surprise has been extremely important. DP makes it even moreso with pokemon capable of dealing massive damage from both ends of the spectrum.

 

[paperfairy]

Element of surprise? ADV was the least surprising of all the generations IMO; it was "standard-riffic".

 

[Surgo]

Element of surprise? ADV was the least surprising of all the generations IMO; it was "standard-riffic".

I do not think you understand what I mean, nor what you are talking about. There is a good reason that sets like special Gyarados work, and that reason is surprise.

Normally you switch in your counter to a pokemon, with the expectation that they will take a small hit and force you to switch out. Pokemon counter multiple pokemon, and sometimes one is holding you back from sweeping.

I'll give an example. You have a Donphan that is stopping me from sweeping with my Metagross, and I also have a special Gyarados. This is where the element of surprise comes in. When I get the opportunity, I bluff and send out Gyarados against something that its regular set would normally kill, like Heracross. You would never leave Heracross in on Gyarados as that's an easy way to get OHKOed and lose a pokemon, so you switch in your normal counter, Donphan, only to receive a Hydro Pump to the face. -That- is the importance of surprise. It won't work anymore against you in this battle, as you've already seen my Gyarados is of the special variety, but it doesn't matter now. Donphan is gone, so now Metagross can come in and sweep.


Trying to compare the "security vs. obscurity" of cryptography to pokemon is like trying to compare it to poker. You obviously don't play poker with your hand revealed, and you shouldn't do it with pokemon either.

 

[paperfairy]

Perhaps then, the documenting should be more privacy friendly? Let's see what we can fix....

Species Name(Gender)** Nickname
Nature (+Stat, -Stat)
Visual Variation? (i.e. shiny, Unown letter, Deoxys form, east/west Shellos)

Better?

 

[Zeta]

* I agree that movesets should be kept secret, since surprise is an important part of many strategies, when dealing with counters like Electrolevitate and Gravity and such. You should be able to switch your moves on your Pokemon as much as you like using TMs and such, too.

* Just out of curiosity, why are the Wobbas banned? Are they really that uber?

 

[Geoffrey]

* Just out of curiosity, why are the Wobbas banned? Are they really that uber?

I think it has something to do with Struggle and Leftovers.

In my opinion, I think they should be hidden. There's a reason why your opponents moves aren't revealed in the games and Stadium/Colosseum, and that's so that you don't have an unfair advantage, and if both players keep changing their Pokemon, it's going to go on and on and on and on.

 

[paperfairy]

Yes. Counter and Mirror Coat can easily tear apart even top tier teams. Paired with Wobb's defenses and HP, it is truly, uber.

 

[s|ush]

Thank you Surgo, for you have put in to words what I feel about the movesets! I am glad that someone agrees with me also.

 

[Doctor Oak]

Wobbuffet is beatable. I don't see why they should be banned. The only real problem comes from pitting one against another one.