Speculation Future Pokemon Game Speculation Thread

[Norzan]

BDSP weren't terrible, they just looked bad

I completely disagree, there were far many more problems than just low graphic fidelity. No Platinum added content. Much lower difficulty and ironically a poorly done difficulty spike in the Elite Four but that's because the main game is so braindead easy that a slight difficulty spike seemed too much for the average player. Forced broken exp. share that you can't turn off. Brough back things Platinum fixed like a Fire type Elite Four having a Ghost type, a Steel type and a Normal type (none of these help with coverage against pokemon that are strong against Fire). Neutered Contests and somehow neutered secret bases when they were already worse than the ones from RSE. Having to download most of the game day one because the cart is missing most of the game. No Sylveon or any pokemon that weren't in the original games like the previous remakes had (if anything the previous remakes had every pokemon in the code but that's not the discussion here).

If anything the graphical update the game got several months after that horrendous first trailer seemed to have appeased a lot of the fanbase, so it wasn't the graphics that disappointed some people.

And me personally, i could have easily looked past the graphics if it actually was a better Platinum, but it wasn't. It was just a slightly better Diamond and Pearl, which is honestly the worst thing it could have been to me. I wanted the absolute best version of the Generation 4 games, not a somewhat better version of the worst version of those games, when a much better version existed and they could have built off of that instead.

 

[Daren]

I doubt they'd make another game like BDSP given the backlash.

Backlash didn't stop them from making BDSP in the first place despite the controversy over OR/AS cutting Emerald's Battle Frontier and other content, and it didn't stop the broken Always On Exp Share from remaining. The games sold great, which is ultimately the metric that matters to decision makers.

 

[KatrinaSForest]

Yeah...for me the biggest loss in BDSP not using anything from Platinum was the story. Team Galactic (imo) is just as flat a villain team as Team Rocket if you go by Pearl and Diamond alone. Just swap out Giovanni's goal of "money" for Cyrus's goal of "destroy the world." It's the story in Plantinum that fleshes them out.

The original Pearl and Diamond were so unappealing to me when they came out that I skipped playing Gen 5 until much, much later. I feel genuinely bad about contributing that generation's low sales when it was the one where they took the most risks and one of the last times it felt like they really cared about making a game the absolute best it could be. (There's promise in all the later generations, but all of them feel like they were rushed in one way or another to me.)

The only reasons I would be semi-okay with BW getting the BDSP treatment is that 1) BW2 are full-on sequels, so it would at least make some sense not to include them, and 2) because the original BW cartridges are so hard to get a hold of anymore. I think it'd be cool if a new generation of players could play the games and experience them without emulators or paying $100+ on Ebay. Though obviously I'd prefer a real remake with y'know, voice acting in it. The only games that have any excuse to not have voice acting anymore are indie games made by a tiny handful of people. And it would be absolutely pathetic if the original Gen 5 games had more voice acting than the remakes.

 

[EmpoleonProd]

I completely disagree, there were far many more problems than just low graphic fidelity. No Platinum added content. Much lower difficulty and ironically a poorly done difficulty spike in the Elite Four but that's because the main game is so braindead easy that a slight difficulty spike seemed too much for the average player. Forced broken exp. share that you can't turn off. Brough back things Platinum fixed like a Fire type Elite Four having a Ghost type, a Steel type and a Normal type (none of these help with coverage against pokemon that are strong against Fire). Neutered Contests and somehow neutered secret bases when they were already worse than the ones from RSE. Having to download most of the game day one because the cart is missing most of the game. No Sylveon or any pokemon that weren't in the original games like the previous remakes had (if anything the previous remakes had every pokemon in the code but that's not the discussion here).

If anything the graphical update the game got several months after that horrendous first trailer seemed to have appeased a lot of the fanbase, so it wasn't the graphics that disappointed some people.

And me personally, i could have easily looked past the graphics if it actually was a better Platinum, but it wasn't. It was just a slightly better Diamond and Pearl, which is honestly the worst thing it could have been to me. I wanted the absolute best version of the Generation 4 games, not a somewhat better version of the worst version of those games, when a much better version existed and they could have built off of that instead.

There was plenty from Platinum? Most of the Platinum Dex was available in the underground, rematch teams for the Pokemon League, Shadow Origin Giratina, etc. Obviously not everything made it into BDSP, but you should've never expected that based on the fact that HGSS and ORAS were remakes of the paired versions, not the third versions, and both of them lacked some of the third version-exclusive content. Honestly I was shocked that they even included the Platinum Dex mons, at least they did that much so you didn't have two Fire-types to pick from lol

 

[Norzan]

There was plenty from Platinum?

Most of the Platinum Dex was available in the underground, rematch teams for the Pokemon League, Shadow Origin Giratina

Uh? No, it hardly added anything from Platinum because those are minor things compared to what was not added. Where's the Battle Frontier? Where's the expanded Cyrus backstory? Where's Looker? Where are the updated Gym Leader rosters that fix major things like Volkner having a random Octillery? Where's the Distortion World?

HGSS

The one that had the Crystal elements like the Eusine storyline? It even added the Platinum Battle Frontier.

ORAS

You mean the one where some people were upset by the lack of the Emerald Battle Frontier and the other missing stuff from Emerald.

were remakes of the paired versions, not the third version

Go to my comment on HGSS. This not an excuse to not add every single third version element because remakes in theory are supposed to be the best version of their generation. That's why you do a remake in the first place, outside of allowing people to have a more readily available version.

Also, this is a contradiction because you mentioned the few elements from Platinum that are in BDSP. So which is it? Are these faithful remakes of the first pair of games and should ignore everything from the third version, or remakes that get to pick and choose which third version elements go in? Because both suck in my opinion.

it was also not just the missing content from Platinum, it was the other many issues i mentioned that had nothing to do with it. It was clear that this remake was extremely rushed.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Honestly I didn't mind BDSP because I liked base DP enough. They're not the best games ever and Platinum's additions improved them significantly, but I find them fun enough. Base BW1 though? BW1 felt like a step back in almost every way and BW2 is the way I want to experience Unova, not BW1. So hard pass on a BDSP style BW1.

There was plenty from Platinum? Most of the Platinum Dex was available in the underground, rematch teams for the Pokemon League, Shadow Origin Giratina, etc. Obviously not everything made it into BDSP, but you should've never expected that based on the fact that HGSS and ORAS were remakes of the paired versions, not the third versions, and both of them lacked some of the third version-exclusive content. Honestly I was shocked that they even included the Platinum Dex mons, at least they did that much so you didn't have two Fire-types to pick from lol

Actually HGSS did have almost everything from Crystal. It had the expanded puzzles in the Ruins of Alph. It had Buena's Password. It had Eusine and Suicune's storyline. It had the Battle Tower (along with a full Battle Frontier). The only thing really missing from Crystal was the Odd Egg and a few distribution improvements (such as Sneasel being moved to Ice Path and a few swarm Pokemon like Marill and Snubbull being obtainable through normal means).

ORAS and BDSP compare far less favorably to their third versions. There was almost nothing from Emerald/Platinum in those games. ORAS didn't have any of the storyline additions from Emerald (yes it had a story arc for Rayquaza, but it was a completely different one, you didn't get Groudon and Kyogre fighting each other and Rayquaza intervening), it didn't have the new areas added (no Battle Frontier or Artisan Cave, no Safari Zone Expansion, no Magma Hideout in Mt. Chimney, no Mirage Tower and Desert Underpass, no Terra and Marine Cave), it didn't have new content and features (again the Battle Frontier, no Match Call and the Gym Leader rematches that came along with it, no Trainer Hill). As for BDSP, you had the Platinum Dex shoved into the Grand Underground, but it felt more like a bonus whereas Platinum integrated its additions into the actual game, with the Platinum additions being in regular routes and trainer rosters. And you could catch Origin Form Giratina, but you didn't have the storyline additions where Looker and Charon were added in and you couldn't explore the Distortion World. And again, no Battle Frontier, just regular old Battle Tower from DP.

The problem is that HGSS had third version content AND original additions whereas ORAS and BDSP just have original additions and largely ignore the third version content. It's a definite step down from HGSS. That's the main issue. A lot of the fanbase loved HGSS' approach to improving Johto, where it had pretty much everything from base GS and added in Crystal content AND threw in original content on top of that, and I think a lot of people imagined that RS and DP remakes would take a similar approach. If we had gotten ORAS with Emerald content AND its original additions or BDSP with Platinum content, people might've looked upon those games more favorable. ORAS would probably be considered the best Pokemon remakes without question and BDSP might still get complaints for the intentionally similar artstyle but at least the content would feel appropriate. Instead, it feels like the remakes have peaked with HGSS and been on the decline ever since.

 

[EmpoleonProd]

BDSP were fine games and pretty much what I expected from DP remakes barring how goofy they looked graphically-speaking. If they made remakes in the style of LGPE I think they'd be better well-received by most Pokemon fans.

 

[Jon Watercooler]

i get where you're coming from but calling someone a hater is not a way to win an arguement

 

[BorealRookidee]

BDSP, in my mind, are not the objective worst main series Pokemon games, but they are the most nothing main series Pokemon games. Like, why do they exist? What do they add to the Pokemon franchise? Nothing. There's no reason to play them. They're just ever so slightly better Diamond and Pearl, which is pointless, because Platinum already exists and is WAY better Diamond and Pearl.

 

[Norzan]

Honestly don't know other companies that legit use the worst version/not use the best version when they are updating or remaking a game, Gamefreak so far seems to be the only company that does that and it's really baffling to me.

 

[BorealRookidee]

Honestly don't know other companies that legit use the worst version/not use the best version when they are updating or remaking a game, Gamefreak so far seems to be the only company that does that and it's really baffling to me.

Game Freak did not make BDSP and is not responsible for its creation. That is on ILCA and The Pokemon Company.

 

[Norzan]

Game Freak did not make BDSP and is not responsible for its creation. That is on ILCA and The Pokemon Company.

Masuda was involved in its developement, let's not try to take blame off of Gamefreak. They are the ones that provided the old code from Diamond and Pearl, hence why you could do all the old bugs from the original games. Pretty sure it wasn't ILCA that decided to use old code.

Also, it just doesn't apply solely to BDSP, it also applies to ORAS and using Ruby and Sapphire as a base instead of Emerald. And that's 100% Gamefreak.

 

[Yung Dramps]

Honestly don't know other companies that legit use the worst version/not use the best version when they are updating or remaking a game, Gamefreak so far seems to be the only company that does that and it's really baffling to me.

Why do people still act like this is some sort of misguided artistic choice when it's so obviously just another byproduct of this series' dysfunctional scheduling?

Like. Dude. Look at the absolute state of BDSP. This is a game that was under such an unfathomably horrendous time crunch that it wasn't even able to ship with complete music! There would've been hospitalizations if they tried to jam in the full Distortion World or the Battle Frontier under these conditions! Legends Arceus, a game with tons of Platinum homages big and small is right there! Developers don't just choose to make their games worse for the laughs!

https://twitter.com/Lewchube/status/1761120060511334401

 

[Jon Watercooler]

so the question is: would 2024 black & white remakes befall the same fateb (also i think we're ignoring the pandemic's role)

 

[Yung Dramps]

so the question is: would 2024 black & white remakes befall the same fateb (also i think we're ignoring the pandemic's role)

It all comes down to how much time they're given. If hypothetically it began in early 2022 right after BDSP, I'd have reason to be optimistic: for at least a well-crafted restoration with new bits and bobs more at the level of stuff like Return to Dreamland DX and the Super Mario RPG remake. If it's yet another 1.5 year long slapjob slog... No lol.

If 2024 BW remakes are happening, which one of these scenarios has taken place will be apparent from reveal. The difference between something like this and whatever the hell this is is about as stark as it gets which makes my months-long prerelease stretch of copium that bdsp was gonna somehow be good even more inexplicable and embarrassing but that's neither here nor there

 

[nickdt]

Masuda was involved in its developement, let's not try to take blame off of Gamefreak. They are the ones that provided the old code from Diamond and Pearl, hence why you could do all the old bugs from the original games. Pretty sure it wasn't ILCA that decided to use old code.

Also, it just doesn't apply solely to BDSP, it also applies to ORAS and using Ruby and Sapphire as a base instead of Emerald. And that's 100% Gamefreak.

Masuda doesn't work for Gamefreak anymore though, he works for the Pokemon Company now. So thats why he might have been put onto BDSP as well.

 

[Norzan]

Masuda doesn't work for Gamefreak anymore though, he works for the Pokemon Company now. So thats why he might have been put onto BDSP as well.

That happened in June of 2022, BDSP came out in late 2021. He was still an employee of Gamefreak during the development of BDSP, plus he's credited as the director of that remake.

 

[Poke Dragon]

The problem with BDSP is how faithful it is to the originals, too much of the game is identical to the originals and for the changes they did make, they are either minuscule, bad fixes for the dex issue, or just all-around bad. Heck, even character customization was dumbed down.

Point is there shouldn't any other remake that's like BDSP, period.

 

[Vengeful Ghost]

Even some of the glitches were remake for BDSP. The walking through walls glitch allowed people to access events that they weren’t supposed to access

 

[Yung Dramps]

Even some of the glitches were remake for BDSP. The walking through walls glitch allowed people to access events that they weren’t supposed to access

I vividly remember there being a Japanese ad for BDSP where they interviewed a bunch of college students who grew up with DP about their fondest memories with the game and one of the sections had a guy openly talking about messing around with the void glitch, complete with b-roll of it in action. I legitimately think they were trying to do the Ocarina of Time 3D thing where they deliberately preserved iconic glitches from the original, it's just the general shoddiness of BDSP caused this intent to be lost on the playerbase