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Preview JN129: The Finals I: "Torrent"

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Reborn Talonflame said:
This is the best possible outcome, to me. Ash beating Leon with just one gimmick seems too much, especially after how Diantha got folded, and the gap between them looks a lot closer now.
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My issue with letting Ash use all three of his gimmicks to close the gap between him and Leon is that, from an in-universe perspective, Leon would be directly bending the rules to handicap himself. Of course, that's not what it looks like from our perspective, because Ash clearly needs all the help he can get to even stand a chance at realistically beating Leon. But from the perspective of the characters in-universe, both trainers are standing on equal ground given the current rules, and Leon letting Ash transcend the one-gimmick-per-battle rule for no actual benefit himself would skew the match heavily in Ash's favor.

As some others have suggested, this won't be an issue at all if Leon gets some sort of buff himself, such as being able to use Dynamax three times throughout the battle (presumably thanks to Eternatus's help). It likely would make the battle a lot more entertaining, with Leon being able to showcase the G-Max forms for the starters that we haven't seen yet, and Ash using all three different gimmicks in one battle. I simply disagree with Leon allowing Ash, and only Ash, to ignore the one-gimmick-per-battle rule, because it'd feel out-of-character for Ash to accept his opponent willingly putting themselves at a disadvantage for such an important fight.
 
VetProf said:
As some others have suggested, this won't be an issue at all if Leon gets some sort of buff himself, such as being able to use Dynamax three times throughout the battle (presumably thanks to Eternatus's help). It likely would make the battle a lot more entertaining, with Leon being able to showcase the G-Max forms for the starters that we haven't seen yet, and Ash using all three different gimmicks in one battle. I simply disagree with Leon allowing Ash, and only Ash, to ignore the one-gimmick-per-battle rule, because it'd feel out-of-character for Ash to accept his opponent willingly putting themselves at a disadvantage for such an important fight.
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I personally think that Leon being able to Gigantamax three times is the most likely and fair option.
 
Am I the only one worrying that this might happen:
6xjpdq.jpg
 
flowerfun said:
Am I the only one worrying that this might happen:
View attachment 164524
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The summary mentions Ash's past friends and rivals, so we'll be seeing more than just them. Also, there's some empty space next to the two in the preview, indicating a character who's been removed from the preview footage to achieve a surprise factor.
 
VetProf said:
My issue with letting Ash use all three of his gimmicks to close the gap between him and Leon is that, from an in-universe perspective, Leon would be directly bending the rules to handicap himself. Of course, that's not what it looks like from our perspective, because Ash clearly needs all the help he can get to even stand a chance at realistically beating Leon. But from the perspective of the characters in-universe, both trainers are standing on equal ground given the current rules, and Leon letting Ash transcend the one-gimmick-per-battle rule for no actual benefit himself would skew the match heavily in Ash's favor.

As some others have suggested, this won't be an issue at all if Leon gets some sort of buff himself, such as being able to use Dynamax three times throughout the battle (presumably thanks to Eternatus's help). It likely would make the battle a lot more entertaining, with Leon being able to showcase the G-Max forms for the starters that we haven't seen yet, and Ash using all three different gimmicks in one battle. I simply disagree with Leon allowing Ash, and only Ash, to ignore the one-gimmick-per-battle rule, because it'd feel out-of-character for Ash to accept his opponent willingly putting themselves at a disadvantage for such an important fight.
Click to expand...
I originally thought this. It’s the same reason why I thought the writing for Ash versus Roxie was terrible, less so Ash versus Grant becuase Ash wanted to try out all of his Pokemon. There’s Cameron versus Ash, and the fight against Morrison (you could see the latter being a case of Ash being a stronger trainer mentally, but if Ash really wanted an equal fight, he would have only used four/five Pokemon).
However, these cases are shown to have Ash using more Pokemon than the over. Here, against Leon, it’s still a numerically fair fight. We’ve never really seen Ash argue that having more gimmicks is unfair (otherwise he wouldn’t have used the Z-Move against Volkner), only a number based approach. So, Ash doesn’t really seem to pay any mind to this idea; he just thinks that a person should become stronger if they can, and would probably gladly accept the chance to have a crazier battle.

For the in-world view of things, the same could be applied for Iris versus Cynthia - could have Iris won if Cynthia didn’t use Mega Evolution, in a fight of base strength without gimmicks? Probab-no…but, no-one looks down on the feat displayed by Cynthia. Piers is an example of strength without gimmicks, but no-one really seems to make a strong argument for his case that he could go on to be something more if things were more balanced. At the end of the day, it appears that no-one really cares about how they get there, just as long as they do.

For us, as the viewers, it just makes more sense that this is how Ash closes the gap (for me at least). Admittedly, whilst there’ll be those that’ll argue Cynthia could have used Mega Evolution if the same rules applied to her against Ash, and the fight could have went differently, the same case could be said for Ash using the Z-Move or Gigantamax against her. It’s not like there wasn’t any handicaps for Ash prior, or the notion that other competitions were restricted, becuase everyone else seemingly only had one gimmick.

To be honest, I’ve always hated this concept. The idea that you could easily display stronger showings, but have to be limited to make it more “fair” doesn’t sit right - a rookie trainer that explores one region could gain Mega Evolution and that only, but the trainer that has several years of experience, obtaining all the gimmicks, is capped to the opponent’s limited time growing? It doesn’t seem right. Why is one penalised for doing more?
 
SamurottMan said:
Omg happy that Dawn and Ash get to talk before the battle.

A certain fan base must be seething
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Well, they're obviously saving the best for last, of course! :D (Or they're just trying not to spoil her again.)
A Wild Luxray said:
Many are saying Serena, but there's a chance it could be Brock. Whether he's hidden or not, his chances of showing up in the next 4 episodes are very high.
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Hopefully both of them will be there in person, and Misty too.
 
In this photo where you can see Piplup and Eevee in the middle, there is no place for Sylveon, for example.
Chloe only knows Dawn and Serena, so only they would be able to sit on either side. Brock would sit on the other side by Dawn. A little further away would be Misty.
 
Reborn Talonflame said:
I originally thought this. It’s the same reason why I thought the writing for Ash versus Roxie was terrible, less so Ash versus Grant becuase Ash wanted to try out all of his Pokemon. There’s Cameron versus Ash, and the fight against Morrison (you could see the latter being a case of Ash being a stronger trainer mentally, but if Ash really wanted an equal fight, he would have only used four/five Pokemon).
However, these cases are shown to have Ash using more Pokemon than the over. Here, against Leon, it’s still a numerically fair fight. We’ve never really seen Ash argue that having more gimmicks is unfair (otherwise he wouldn’t have used the Z-Move against Volkner), only a number based approach. So, Ash doesn’t really seem to pay any mind to this idea; he just thinks that a person should become stronger if they can, and would probably gladly accept the chance to have a crazier battle.

For the in-world view of things, the same could be applied for Iris versus Cynthia - could have Iris won if Cynthia didn’t use Mega Evolution, in a fight of base strength without gimmicks? Probab-no…but, no-one looks down on the feat displayed by Cynthia. Piers is an example of strength without gimmicks, but no-one really seems to make a strong argument for his case that he could go on to be something more if things were more balanced. At the end of the day, it appears that no-one really cares about how they get there, just as long as they do.

For us, as the viewers, it just makes more sense that this is how Ash closes the gap (for me at least). Admittedly, whilst there’ll be those that’ll argue Cynthia could have used Mega Evolution if the same rules applied to her against Ash, and the fight could have went differently, the same case could be said for Ash using the Z-Move or Gigantamax against her. It’s not like there wasn’t any handicaps for Ash prior, or the notion that other competitions were restricted, becuase everyone else seemingly only had one gimmick.

To be honest, I’ve always hated this concept. The idea that you could easily display stronger showings, but have to be limited to make it more “fair” doesn’t sit right - a rookie trainer that explores one region could gain Mega Evolution and that only, but the trainer that has several years of experience, obtaining all the gimmicks, is capped to the opponent’s limited time growing? It doesn’t seem right. Why is one penalised for doing more?
Click to expand...
Just an aside, but I'm still mad that they never did anything with Piers in this story. I mean in the games he was stated to be strong enough to thrash Raihan around while not using Dynamax. You'd think they'd do something with that.
 
PokeFan2005 said:
In this photo where you can see Piplup and Eevee in the middle, there is no place for Sylveon, for example.
Chloe only knows Dawn and Serena, so only they would be able to sit on either side. Brock would sit on the other side by Dawn. A little further away would be Misty.
Click to expand...
None of Serena's Pokémon are really walking Pokémon to the same degree as Piplup and Eevee. Sylveon just was constantly out during her previous appearance because she was the main Pokémon of focus in the episode.
 
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