Pokemon Stars Discussion Thread (Speculation)

[SinnohEevee]

How about an Eclipse Forme?

 

[Morningstar]

How about an Eclipse Forme?

It still runs into the issue of what would they use for the design bases. Its likely that the Kaupe was the basis of Midnight Form. And Midday already has the normal wolf basis.

Actually, as unlikely as that sounds. I think we shouldn't discount Mega-Evolution as a possibility. Which is why I want to ask if Megas ever got PGL artwork?

 

[Esserise]

Rotom also doesn't have any of its forms reliant upon evolutionary conditions, while Lycanroc's forms are entirely tied to evolutionary conditions. They are opposite scenarios.

I guess, but to me that seems like a minute obstacle. If they want to add a third Lycanroc form but need to add a different evolution requirement... I don't see why they wouldn't just go ahead and do it. Surely it's not that difficult to program?

And the "well they've never done it that way before" argument has been getting weaker and weaker with each new installment. I mean, right now, we're in a section of the forum dedicated to a game that so many people said would never get rid of Gyms or feature evolving Legendary Pokémon or even exist in the first place because they'd never move on to a new generation "so soon."

Which is why I want to ask if Megas ever got PGL artwork?

They did.

Still no female Unfezant though...

 

[Morningstar]

In that case I have 3 possibilities for Lycanroc:

• A Crepuscular counterpart to the Nocturnal Midnight form and the Diurnal Midday form. Something possible but still asks the question of what it would look like. A mix of the exisitng two forms or soemthing different altoghther.
• A Mega-evolution. Possible though it has one of the same issues, it could be circumvented by using the same basis as the normal forms inspirations. The problem with that being if the mega stone would be exclusive to a specific form.
• Some sort of cosmetic change a la Resolute Keldeo, something that does affect gameplay but does change the appearance.

Or maybe they just decided to use different artwork for Lycanroc for some reason, I noticed that pokemon like Mawile and Midkip got a few extra bits of artwork for the PGL.

 

[Ereshkigal]

I did give an evolutionary condition in my post in case the rotom argument was invalid, which was "Level up Rockruff in Ultra Space"

Which still goes into things they don't do with a third addition to a main game set.

I guess, but to me that seems like a minute obstacle. If they want to add a third Lycanroc form but need to add a different evolution requirement... I don't see why they wouldn't just go ahead and do it. Surely it's not that difficult to program?

And the "well they've never done it that way before" argument has been getting weaker and weaker with each new installment. I mean, right now, we're in a section of the forum dedicated to a game that so many people said would never get rid of Gyms or feature evolving Legendary Pokémon or even exist in the first place because they'd never move on to a new generation "so soon."



They did.

Still no female Unfezant though...

I'm willing to bet all they have to do to add a new form is copy and paste code from another Pokemon, change the reference numbers, and then add in an additional switch condition. Competent intern could probably do this in five minutes. The most time-consuming part would be making the model and animations.

The main strength of them not doing it in a third game is the fact they simply stopped doing third games after Gen 4. Gen 5 used sequels instead of a third game, Gen 6 scrapped both ideas, and now we're on Gen 7. So far, with these Gens, they seem to be doing most of their experimentation with the remakes, not with a third game. With the Gen 7 remakes, the slot for games where they do experimentation is already filled; there's really no room for Stars to fill that niche.

In that case I have 3 possibilities for Lycanroc:

• A Crepuscular counterpart to the Nocturnal Midnight form and the Diurnal Midday form. Something possible but still asks the question of what it would look like. A mix of the exisitng two forms or soemthing different altoghther.
• A Mega-evolution. Possible though it has one of the same issues, it could be circumvented by using the same basis as the normal forms inspirations. The problem with that being if the mega stone would be exclusive to a specific form.
• Some sort of cosmetic change a la Resolute Keldeo, something that does affect gameplay but does change the appearance.

Or maybe they just decided to use different artwork for Lycanroc for some reason, I noticed that pokemon like Mawile and Midkip got a few extra bits of artwork for the PGL.

I'm going to suggest a fourth possibility: A non-Alolan evolutionary form of Lycanroc for the Gen 7 remakes.

 

[SinnohEevee]

Which still goes into things they don't do with a third addition to a main game set.



I'm willing to bet all they have to do to add a new form is copy and paste code from another Pokemon, change the reference numbers, and then add in an additional switch condition. Competent intern could probably do this in five minutes. The most time-consuming part would be making the model and animations.

The main strength of them not doing it in a third game is the fact they simply stopped doing third games after Gen 4. Gen 5 used sequels instead of a third game, Gen 6 scrapped both ideas, and now we're on Gen 7. So far, with these Gens, they seem to be doing most of their experimentation with the remakes, not with a third game. With the Gen 7 remakes, the slot for games where they do experimentation is already filled; there's really no room for Stars to fill that niche.



I'm going to suggest a fourth possibility: A non-Alolan evolutionary form of Lycanroc for the Gen 7 remakes.

Which remakes? Did they confirm Sinnoh will be remade?

 

[godiego]

Which still goes into things they don't do with a third addition to a main game set.

to be fair, there's been plenty of precedent for people reading into Game Freak's patterns all "they don't do this or that" only for them to be proven wrong when Game Freak does the this or that. there really aren't any patterns and there really aren't any rules. and i mean for what it's worth, Stars is already breaking precedent by being the first main Pokemon game to appear on a TV console rather than the portable handheld du jour.

The main strength of them not doing it in a third game is the fact they simply stopped doing third games after Gen 4. Gen 5 used sequels instead of a third game, Gen 6 scrapped both ideas, and now we're on Gen 7. So far, with these Gens, they seem to be doing most of their experimentation with the remakes, not with a third game. With the Gen 7 remakes, the slot for games where they do experimentation is already filled; there's really no room for Stars to fill that niche.

but we also don't know why they've stopped doing them, they just haven't released a full-fledged third version since Platinum. BW2 did after all start out as a Gray before it was worked into BW2, so it's not like they've necessarily been off the table. and i do think that ORAS was picked over a third version (remix, Director's Cut, sequel, whatever) simply because Gen 6 had to be a shorter generation to accommodate releasing SM on the 20th anniversary year.

 

[Cookies and Creme]

Which remakes? Did they confirm Sinnoh will be remade?

Not yet. It's predicting Gen 7 remakes about 17 years before it comes out, if the remake pattern is correct.

but we also don't know why they've stopped doing them, they just haven't released a full-fledged third version since Platinum. BW2 did after all start out as a Gray before it was worked into BW2, so it's not like they've necessarily been off the table. and i do think that ORAS was picked over a third version (remix, Director's Cut, sequel, whatever) simply because Gen 6 had to be a shorter generation to accommodate releasing SM on the 20th anniversary year.

It has been 3 years for Gen VI anyways, and that has been the averages of the Generations for Gen I (Japan), Gen II, and Gen V (Gen III and Gen IV were close to 4 years). Also, I don't think SM was meant to be released on the 20th anniversary, as Zelda fans didn't get anything for their 30th anniversary (since BOTW was pushed back).
Also, did BW2 start out as Gray? I never heard about that but I'm curious as to what I missed out.

 

[godiego]

It has been 3 years for Gen VI anyways, and that has been the averages of the Generations for Gen I (Japan), Gen II, and Gen V (Gen III and Gen IV were close to 4 years).

number of games-wise, Gen 6 is shorter.

Also, I don't think SM was meant to be released on the 20th anniversary, as Zelda fans didn't get anything for their 30th anniversary (since BOTW was pushed back).

ok but this is Pokemon, not Zelda.

Also, did BW2 start out as Gray? I never heard about that but I'm curious as to what I missed out.

it's in an interview somewhere. not that it matters all that much anyways, we got BW2.

 

[Ereshkigal]

Which remakes? Did they confirm Sinnoh will be remade?

They've not confirmed anything yet on Sinnoh remakes, Stars, or even Pokemon on the Switch. I don't see any reason why they'd skip a Sinnoh remake this Gen, though.

to be fair, there's been plenty of precedent for people reading into Game Freak's patterns all "they don't do this or that" only for them to be proven wrong when Game Freak does the this or that. there really aren't any patterns and there really aren't any rules. and i mean for what it's worth, Stars is already breaking precedent by being the first main Pokemon game to appear on a TV console rather than the portable handheld du jour.

but we also don't know why they've stopped doing them, they just haven't released a full-fledged third version since Platinum. BW2 did after all start out as a Gray before it was worked into BW2, so it's not like they've necessarily been off the table. and i do think that ORAS was picked over a third version (remix, Director's Cut, sequel, whatever) simply because Gen 6 had to be a shorter generation to accommodate releasing SM on the 20th anniversary year.

And to be fair, we don't actually know there will be a Stars released; we're speculating there will be based on information that could easily just be futureproofing. No confirmation of Stars yet. So, Stars isn't actually breaking any precedents because it doesn't exist yet.

Keep in mind ORAS was the third remake. They have a history of remaking a prior gen being more popular than a third gen; I seriously doubt they're going to abandon that strategy as long as there's money in it. If they do a third game as well, I don't think we'll see any new forms in it because they will be saving those for the Sinnoh remakes so they can port over regional variants and present them in a new way... like they did with ORAS and mega evolutions. No reason to do that with Stars, since there you have plenty more room for storyline revisions the players would like.

It has been 3 years for Gen VI anyways, and that has been the averages of the Generations for Gen I (Japan), Gen II, and Gen V (Gen III and Gen IV were close to 4 years). Also, I don't think SM was meant to be released on the 20th anniversary, as Zelda fans didn't get anything for their 30th anniversary (since BOTW was pushed back).

I have to agree with this.

 

[SinnohEevee]

They've not confirmed anything yet on Sinnoh remakes, Stars, or even Pokemon on the Switch. I don't see any reason why they'd skip a Sinnoh remake this Gen, though.



And to be fair, we don't actually know there will be a Stars released; we're speculating there will be based on information that could easily just be futureproofing. No confirmation of Stars yet. So, Stars isn't actually breaking any precedents because it doesn't exist yet.

Keep in mind ORAS was the third remake. They have a history of remaking a prior gen being more popular than a third gen; I seriously doubt they're going to abandon that strategy as long as there's money in it. If they do a third game as well, I don't think we'll see any new forms in it because they will be saving those for the Sinnoh remakes so they can port over regional variants and present them in a new way... like they did with ORAS and mega evolutions. No reason to do that with Stars, since there you have plenty more room for storyline revisions the players would like.



I have to agree with this.

DP is playable on the 3DS, so they may push its remakes till Gen 8.
Plus, maybe Game Freak just doesn't want to create patterns. I read they didn't do a 3rd game for BW (or was it XY) because that would make them predictable.

 

[Esserise]

The main strength of them not doing it in a third game is the fact they simply stopped doing third games after Gen 4. Gen 5 used sequels instead of a third game, Gen 6 scrapped both ideas, and now we're on Gen 7. So far, with these Gens, they seem to be doing most of their experimentation with the remakes, not with a third game. With the Gen 7 remakes, the slot for games where they do experimentation is already filled; there's really no room for Stars to fill that niche.

Adding on to what godeigo already said, they've also not been in this kind of awkward position with consoles in a long time, if ever. But that's putting us on the precipice of the "Will they Switch or won't they?" debate, which has been thoroughly hashed out plenty of times by this point.

I'm going to suggest a fourth possibility: A non-Alolan evolutionary form of Lycanroc for the Gen 7 remakes.

I was going to suggest something similar; a "shared" form that either Midday or Midnight can transform into under whatever circumstances. I don't think it has to be evolutionary, but I'm definitely not going to rule out that possibility, either.

Also, I don't think SM was meant to be released on the 20th anniversary, as Zelda fans didn't get anything for their 30th anniversary (since BOTW was pushed back).

What's Zelda got to do with it? (To some degree I am honestly asking, since I don't play or follow the Zelda franchise.) Maybe Game Freak/TPC just care more, hence the enormous multimedia anniversary celebration we got all throughout 2016.

Also, did BW2 start out as Gray? I never heard about that but I'm curious as to what I missed out.

> Iwata: Like a difference in color—for example, "How about coming out with Pokémon Gray Version?"

> Ishihara: Yeah. But lots of players were expecting us to follow the same pattern, so for the first time we decided to try adding a "2" for a pleasant surprise.

[later in the interview]

> Masuda: I'm Masuda from GAME FREAK. As for why we're releasing two, we thought of a game mechanic to put in when we were developing Pokémon Black Version and Pokémon White Version, but we didn't have enough time to do it. We needed two games for that, so this time we decided to make two.

> Iwata: So that's why you made two.

> Masuda: Yes. A little later, we thought of making them sequels. When you told me that if we were going to release something for the Nintendo DS system, we had to come up with something new, I was really worried. (laughs) Then I thought, "How about sequels?"

> Iwata: For games to have sequels is nothing unusual, but we'd never taken that direction with Pokémon, so it was new.

Source

 

[Ereshkigal]

DP is playable on the 3DS, so they may push its remakes till Gen 8.
Plus, maybe Game Freak just doesn't want to create patterns. I read they didn't do a 3rd game for BW (or was it XY) because that would make them predictable.

Oh, I know they're trying not to be predictable. That's what makes them very predictable.

Humans are terrible at being random; if you understand how someone thinks, it's impossible for them to do something unpredictable. Companies are even worse; if they're actually being random, it's always because of incompetence or lack of information on your part.

And Game Freak, for a company that hates to be predictable, has patterns and predictability littering the Pokemon series.

Adding on to what godeigo already said, they've also not been in this kind of awkward position with consoles in a long time, if ever. But that's putting us on the precipice of the "Will they Switch or won't they?" debate, which has been thoroughly hashed out plenty of times by this point.

This position is far, far beyond awkward where GF is concerned.

Keep in mind that Game Freak as a company has not developed a game for a Nintendo home console since the SNES. They have developed for the Xbox One and Playstation 4, but not for the Wii U. They've even developed for Windows. But the SNES is the last time they did anything main console for Nintendo, and there are plenty of signs they might have an antagonistic relationship with Nintendo home consoles at this point.

That's part of why I talked quite a bit about the Switch being thought of as a home console as very important. Because if Game Freak does have an antagonistic relationship with Nintendo home consoles and they can't get over it or see the Switch as anything but a home console, then there's a massive problem for us as Pokemon fans.

Edit: Game Freak released a game about an elephant named Tembo in 2015, which came out on Xbox 1, Playstation 4, and Windows. The time before that they released a non-Nintendo portable game was 1999. They have a Windows game coming out this year. There is a definite change in their pattern of behavior, and I suspect it was caused by learning about the Switch.

I was going to suggest something similar; a "shared" form that either Midday or Midnight can transform into under whatever circumstances. I don't think it has to be evolutionary, but I'm definitely not going to rule out that possibility, either.

I'm willing to bet it has to be evolutionary simply because they've already tied the existing forms into being evolutionary.

 

[DoctorWhy]

What's Zelda got to do with it? (To some degree I am honestly asking, since I don't play or follow the Zelda franchise.) Maybe Game Freak/TPC just care more, hence the enormous multimedia anniversary celebration we got all throughout 2016.

Definitely wouldn't say that lol. Zelda's 25th anniversary, in addition to a big game release, also had the release of Hyrule Historia, a gigantic Zelda "Bible" filled with concept art, history, a timeline, etc. There were tons of other releases of different content and media throughout the year. It was also in the 25th anniversary year that they began and announced their touring orchestra symphony performance Symphony of the Goddessess, which tours around the world still now playing a couple hours worth of Zelda music in live orchestra. I went for the first time last year and it was one of the most amazing experiences of my life. And this past year of the 30th anniversary got a release of like 4+ special Zelda amiibo and something else I can't remember at the moment. Not as much, but still not bad. And they really wanted to release Breath of the Wild for the anniversary, but it just couldn't be done.

Anyway.

Yeah, Zelda's behavior is completely irrelevant to this entire discussion.

 

[godiego]

And to be fair, we don't actually know there will be a Stars released; we're speculating there will be based on information that could easily just be futureproofing. No confirmation of Stars yet. So, Stars isn't actually breaking any precedents because it doesn't exist yet.

then replace it with hypothetical language. the overarching argument is still true: the fans scramble to find things they perceive to be patterns, swear by them, only for them to be punked by Game Freak. whether or not Stars is or isn't coming (and this thread pretty much assumes for the purpose of discussion the former anyways) isn't relevant.

Keep in mind ORAS was the third remake. They have a history of remaking a prior gen being more popular than a third gen; I seriously doubt they're going to abandon that strategy as long as there's money in it. If they do a third game as well, I don't think we'll see any new forms in it because they will be saving those for the Sinnoh remakes so they can port over regional variants and present them in a new way... like they did with ORAS and mega evolutions. No reason to do that with Stars, since there you have plenty more room for storyline revisions the players would like.

except Game Freak's history doesn't matter here. ORAS is the third remake. cool. Platinum was the fifth (and ultimately last) true third game released. and at any rate it, adding new forms isn't some mutually exclusive thing. they can have forms for a hypothetical DP remake and they can make forms for Stars. i don't see why they would have to pick one or the other.

 

[Ereshkigal]

then replace it with hypothetical language. the overarching argument is still true: the fans scramble to find things they perceive to be patterns, swear by them, only for them to be punked by Game Freak. whether or not Stars is or isn't coming (and this thread pretty much assumes for the purpose of discussion the former anyways) isn't relevant.

except Game Freak's history doesn't matter here. ORAS is the third remake. cool. Platinum was the fifth (and ultimately last) true third game released. and at any rate it, adding new forms isn't some mutually exclusive thing. they can have forms for a hypothetical DP remake and they can make forms for Stars. i don't see why they would have to pick one or the other.

Game Freak releasing Stars is based both on the history of the company releasing third additions to a main duo and on some data that isn't used yet. The idea that it'll be released on Switch has, every time I've seen it, been predicated at least in part on the fact Yellow did something similar.

In short, the entire discussion about Stars is based on actions that Game Freak has done before. Including your posts, where you keep bringing up Game Freak's past history of trying to be unpredictable.

Incidentally, you're relying on the perceived pattern of Game Freak repeatedly refusing to follow patterns to argue against perceived patterns. Your argument is inherently self-refuting if anyone stops and thinks about it long enough.

I see them as picking one or the other simply because it would be separate selling points. Sell Stars based on storyline improvements, new areas, and added Pokemon. Sell the Sinnoh remakes based on actual innovations and new forms. It would be far more profitable for them.

 

[Cookies and Creme]

What's Zelda got to do with it? (To some degree I am honestly asking, since I don't play or follow the Zelda franchise.) Maybe Game Freak/TPC just care more, hence the enormous multimedia anniversary celebration we got all throughout 2016.

I'm not too sure myself, but from what I have heard of Zelda fans were expecting a game for the 30th anniversary, which was BOTW. However, since BOTW got delayed, there was no core series Zelda game for the 30th anniversary. What I'm saying is that despite being an important milestone the Zelda franchise did not produce a new game whatsoever. Though I'm pretty sure Zelda fans got some good stuff like us Pokemon fans.
Well, Pokemon is pretty much GF's best known game, while Zelda is one of Nintendo's many franchises, so it's kinda understandable if Pokemon has more anniversary focus. I just doubt SM came out just for the sake of the anniversary.

number of games-wise, Gen 6 is shorter.

Gen V and I (including Green) had the same amount of games. Gen II has the least, with only 3 games.

2017 G7 Remix/Sequel/Etc

- 2018 Break Year

- 2019 Diamond/Pearl Remakes

- 2020 Generation 8

- 2021 Break Year

- 2022 G8 Remix/Sequel/Etc

- 2023 Break Year

- 2024 Generation 9, And Black/White Remakes

- 2025 Break Year

- 2026 G9 Remix/Sequel/ 30th Anniversary Edition/ Etc

- 2027 Generation 10

- 2028 Break Year

- 2029 X/Y Remakes

- 2030 Generation 11

Now, Sinnoh remakes are kinda tricky. If we follow the 5-year rule, then it'll come out in 2019, which is the supposed end of Gen VII. They could extend it for an additional 300-ish days, but if they do it would most likely be the first time a generation is over 4 years. I'm not saying it's possible, but if we stick with all the current patterns then there would be conflict in the space-time continuum
Also currently Gen VI is the only game without a 3rd game remix/sequel/etc. so it's kinda debatable if GF would do it again - who honestly thought that Gen VII would bring more than 100 Pokemon?

 

[Morningstar]

Also currently Gen VI is the only game without a 3rd game remix/sequel/etc. so it's kinda debatable if GF would do it again - who honestly thought that Gen VII would bring more than 100 Pokemon?

Technically, there will always be 3-4 generations without remakes, due to the fact that most of the games haven't gotten to the point where they would be necessary yet, and currently 4, 5, 6 and 7 are without remakes, and of those four, 4 and 5 are old enough where it might seen as necessity in the next decade.

 

[godiego]

Gen V and I (including Green) had the same amount of games. Gen II has the least, with only 3 games.

i don't consider the pairs to be separate games.

Game Freak releasing Stars is based both on the history of the company releasing third additions to a main duo and on some data that isn't used yet. The idea that it'll be released on Switch has, every time I've seen it, been predicated at least in part on the fact Yellow did something similar.

no, the idea that it'll be released on the Switch is predicated on a reliable source saying that the Switch will have a game called Stars that will be similar to Yellow. we're not out here making stuff up.

In short, the entire discussion about Stars is based on actions that Game Freak has done before. Including your posts, where you keep bringing up Game Freak's past history of trying to be unpredictable.
Incidentally, you're relying on the perceived pattern of Game Freak repeatedly refusing to follow patterns to argue against perceived patterns. Your argument is inherently self-refuting if anyone stops and thinks about it long enough.

do not conflate a guiding principle of "there are no rules" to me saying Game Freak is unpredictable.

and if we're assessing comments and arguments here, your original comment that precipitated my response regarding history doesn't even address what i had originally stated anyways so. hm.

I see them as picking one or the other simply because it would be separate selling points. Sell Stars based on storyline improvements, new areas, and added Pokemon. Sell the Sinnoh remakes based on actual innovations and new forms. It would be far more profitable for them.

and still.....none of what you listed is mutually exclusive.............

 

[Ereshkigal]

no, the idea that it'll be released on the Switch is predicated on a reliable source saying that the Switch will have a game called Stars that will be similar to Yellow. we're not out here making stuff up.

So, basically, predicated upon someone else making things up.

do not conflate a guiding principle of "there are no rules" to me saying Game Freak is unpredictable.

You already conflated them. And you did it twice.

and if we're assessing comments and arguments here, your original comment that precipitated my response regarding history doesn't even address what i had originally stated anyways so. hm.

My original comment that precipitated what you first said about history was in a post not even talking to you. So I fail to see how not addressing what you said when I wasn't even talking to you at the time is any fault of mine.

and still.....none of what you listed is mutually exclusive.............

Doesn't have to be. It's design and marketing decisions, not limitations of technology or time.