Master Simm
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Re: Space Race Mafia - Night 0 - Role Confirmations (Subs still welcome)
Confirming.
Confirming.
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Mafia Space Race Mafia - Day 4 - Project Apollo (2/6/2013)
- Thread starter DerMißingno
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Re: Space Race Mafia - Night 0 - Role Confirmations (Subs still welcome)
Role confirm
Role confirm
Soulmaster
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Re: Space Race Mafia - Night 0 - Role Confirmations (Subs still welcome)
I got mine.
I got mine.
DerMißingno
Gutes deutsches Bier
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Re: Space Race Mafia - Night 0 - Role Confirmations (Subs still welcome)
Sergei Korolev and his engineers crack open some vodka and celebrate their success. They have just launched the first man made object into space, and Korolev's dream of space exploration is beginning to become a reality. Unfortunately, he will not see any of the fame or publicity for any of his accomplishments. His work is a Soviet secret, and cannot be put at risk by revealing his identity.
However, their celebration is short lived. Nikita Kruschev, upon hearing of what a political and symbolic victory the launch was, becomes extremely excited about the space program... Maybe too excited. He contacts Korolev and demands another satellite launch in time for the anniversary of the revolution on November 3. That gives Korolev less than one month, an insane timetable by any standard, let alone the second space launch in history.
Meanwhile in the United States, pressure begins to build. Their planned first satellite launch, known as Project Vanguard, was not nearly complete. In order to catch up with the Soviets, the government turns to a group of captured Germans led by Wernher Von Braun. Von Braun and his team had worked in Germany on rocket technology under the Third Reich. After defecting to the United States, they developed the Redstone rocket family, an intermediate range ballistic missile. Will the Germans' expertise and their powerful Redstone rocket be enough to catch up with the Soviets?
It is now Day 1. This phase will end at 11:00 PM EST on January 25, or when a player receives a majority of votes.
1. @Zima;
2. @Neon Borealis;
3. @twinArmageddons;
4. @Phoenicks;
5. @Master Mew;
6. @Soulmaster;
7. @TM40 Aerial Ace;
8. @Dark Blueberry;
9. @Orion;
2. @Neon Borealis;
3. @twinArmageddons;
4. @Phoenicks;
5. @Master Mew;
6. @Soulmaster;
7. @TM40 Aerial Ace;
8. @Dark Blueberry;
9. @Orion;
Sergei Korolev and his engineers crack open some vodka and celebrate their success. They have just launched the first man made object into space, and Korolev's dream of space exploration is beginning to become a reality. Unfortunately, he will not see any of the fame or publicity for any of his accomplishments. His work is a Soviet secret, and cannot be put at risk by revealing his identity.
However, their celebration is short lived. Nikita Kruschev, upon hearing of what a political and symbolic victory the launch was, becomes extremely excited about the space program... Maybe too excited. He contacts Korolev and demands another satellite launch in time for the anniversary of the revolution on November 3. That gives Korolev less than one month, an insane timetable by any standard, let alone the second space launch in history.
Meanwhile in the United States, pressure begins to build. Their planned first satellite launch, known as Project Vanguard, was not nearly complete. In order to catch up with the Soviets, the government turns to a group of captured Germans led by Wernher Von Braun. Von Braun and his team had worked in Germany on rocket technology under the Third Reich. After defecting to the United States, they developed the Redstone rocket family, an intermediate range ballistic missile. Will the Germans' expertise and their powerful Redstone rocket be enough to catch up with the Soviets?
It is now Day 1. This phase will end at 11:00 PM EST on January 25, or when a player receives a majority of votes.
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Master Mew
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Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)
...hmm...
...Sheep, perhaps?
Vote: twinArmageddons
This vote... it's missing something.
...hmm...
...Sheep, perhaps?
Vote: twinArmageddons
Master Simm
The Real McCoy
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Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)
tA's comment seems a little fishy. I mean, how could he know if a group had all confirmed unless he knew the others in it?
Vote: twinArmageddons
tA's comment seems a little fishy. I mean, how could he know if a group had all confirmed unless he knew the others in it?
Vote: twinArmageddons
Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)
Since you're new to mafia here I have no idea how sincere you are here. It sounds annoying and patronizing, but for a while you may have to overexplain yourself so we understand where you're coming from.
So, as incentive:
Unvote: TwinArmageddons
Vote: TM 40 Aerial Ace
Since you're new to mafia here I have no idea how sincere you are here. It sounds annoying and patronizing, but for a while you may have to overexplain yourself so we understand where you're coming from.
So, as incentive:
Unvote: TwinArmageddons
Vote: TM 40 Aerial Ace
Master Mew
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Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)
Ok, Bulba's RVS is designed to fail, so let's try something different.
Setup Analysis
Let's Talk Mafia
@Zima Even though this is a small game, do you think we should lynch today? Based on what has been said so far (so far here meaning anything said prior to you responding to this), who do you think would be the best lynch at the moment?
@Neon Borealis What do you think of Phoenicks jumping off the twinArmageddons wagon?
@twinArmageddons At what point in the game do you expect Nick to become obv-scum? When that happens, will you vote for him? Or will he be too scummy to actually be scum?
@Phoenicks Why did you move your vote from twinArmageddons to pressure-vote Aerial Ace, when the twinArmageddons wagon had not yet accomplished the purpose of the early RVS wagon? i.e. Why start pressuring Aerial Ace with your vote, when we weren't finished pressuring twinArmageddons?
@Soulmaster Do you expect to be more or less active than usual in this game? Also, what do you think of Aerial Ace's vote for twinArmageddons?
@TM40 Aerial Ace Was your vote for twinArmageddons a joke or do you think he gave himself away in the confirmation phase?
@Dark Blueberry On a scale of 1-10, 1 being Obv-Town and 10 being Obv-Scum, how scummy do you plan on being in this game?
@Orion If you had to choose right now, who would you like to see lynched today and why?
Ok, Bulba's RVS is designed to fail, so let's try something different.
Setup Analysis
We start with 9 players, two of which are scum. Thus, we can mislynch twice before we enter LYLO (lynch-or-lose). Thus, we must lynch correctly 50% of the time to win.
Alternatively, if we were to no lynch today, we would only have one mislynch before entering MYLO (mislynch-or-lose). Thus, we would have to lynch correctly 66% of the time to win. This is nearly insurmountable for Bulba Towns in my experience.
Conclusion: No Lynching is not really an option today, and won't be at any point in the game barring a successful Doctor protection.
Alternatively, if we were to no lynch today, we would only have one mislynch before entering MYLO (mislynch-or-lose). Thus, we would have to lynch correctly 66% of the time to win. This is nearly insurmountable for Bulba Towns in my experience.
Conclusion: No Lynching is not really an option today, and won't be at any point in the game barring a successful Doctor protection.
Let's Talk Mafia
@Zima Even though this is a small game, do you think we should lynch today? Based on what has been said so far (so far here meaning anything said prior to you responding to this), who do you think would be the best lynch at the moment?
@Neon Borealis What do you think of Phoenicks jumping off the twinArmageddons wagon?
@twinArmageddons At what point in the game do you expect Nick to become obv-scum? When that happens, will you vote for him? Or will he be too scummy to actually be scum?
@Phoenicks Why did you move your vote from twinArmageddons to pressure-vote Aerial Ace, when the twinArmageddons wagon had not yet accomplished the purpose of the early RVS wagon? i.e. Why start pressuring Aerial Ace with your vote, when we weren't finished pressuring twinArmageddons?
@Soulmaster Do you expect to be more or less active than usual in this game? Also, what do you think of Aerial Ace's vote for twinArmageddons?
@TM40 Aerial Ace Was your vote for twinArmageddons a joke or do you think he gave himself away in the confirmation phase?
@Dark Blueberry On a scale of 1-10, 1 being Obv-Town and 10 being Obv-Scum, how scummy do you plan on being in this game?
@Orion If you had to choose right now, who would you like to see lynched today and why?
Master Simm
The Real McCoy
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Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)
@Master Mew; Honestly, I'm trying to come up for a reason for your and Phoenicks' original votes, as well as a reason to "jump on the bandwagon" with you.
I've only ever played mafia with cards before...
P.S. What's pressure voting?
@Master Mew; Honestly, I'm trying to come up for a reason for your and Phoenicks' original votes, as well as a reason to "jump on the bandwagon" with you.
I've only ever played mafia with cards before...
P.S. What's pressure voting?
Soulmaster
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Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)
And Vote: twinarmageddons to tie it up.
@TM40 Aerial Ace; Normally on Day 1 there are joke votes which hold nothing over the game really. But @Master Mew; Why did you follow the vote?
About the same unless something comes through. Completely uncalled for. If he wasn't so new I would think it was a major scum trip up.
And Vote: twinarmageddons to tie it up.
@TM40 Aerial Ace; Normally on Day 1 there are joke votes which hold nothing over the game really. But @Master Mew; Why did you follow the vote?
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Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)
I don't think I'd be able to act scummy. XDD
But jokes aside, I assume there are only a few power roles in this game?
@Dark Blueberry On a scale of 1-10, 1 being Obv-Town and 10 being Obv-Scum, how scummy do you plan on being in this game?
I don't think I'd be able to act scummy. XDD
But jokes aside, I assume there are only a few power roles in this game?
Master Mew
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Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)
Early bandwagons are important, if we all vote for different people then we won't learn anything from RVS. The point is to build a bandwagon on someone, almost lynch them (that "almost" is important) then demand that they assert their Towniness by scumhunting. That's how substantive discussion begins.
Otherwise, we have a meaningless Day 1, a basically random nightkill, and then start Day 2 with no reads (a.k.a. 90% of Bulba games). In a game this size, we only have two mislynches before LYLO, so I don't think we can risk a meaningless Day 1.
Oh, also, you didn't just, "tie it up," you just took twinArmageddons to three votes.
Because your analysis of Day 1 voting is completely wrong.
Early bandwagons are important, if we all vote for different people then we won't learn anything from RVS. The point is to build a bandwagon on someone, almost lynch them (that "almost" is important) then demand that they assert their Towniness by scumhunting. That's how substantive discussion begins.
Otherwise, we have a meaningless Day 1, a basically random nightkill, and then start Day 2 with no reads (a.k.a. 90% of Bulba games). In a game this size, we only have two mislynches before LYLO, so I don't think we can risk a meaningless Day 1.
Oh, also, you didn't just, "tie it up," you just took twinArmageddons to three votes.
Soulmaster
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Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)
*facepalm* thanks for catching that.
Unvote: twinArmageddons
Vote: TM40 Aerial Ace
Because your analysis of Day 1 voting is completely wrong.
Early bandwagons are important, if we all vote for different people then we won't learn anything from RVS. The point is to build a bandwagon on someone, almost lynch them (that "almost" is important) then demand that they assert their Towniness by scumhunting. That's how substantive discussion begins.
Otherwise, we have a meaningless Day 1, a basically random nightkill, and then start Day 2 with no reads (a.k.a. 90% of Bulba games). In a game this size, we only have two mislynches before LYLO, so I don't think we can risk a meaningless Day 1.
Oh, also, you didn't just, "tie it up," you just took twinArmageddons to three votes.
*facepalm* thanks for catching that.
Unvote: twinArmageddons
Vote: TM40 Aerial Ace
Master Mew
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Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)
@Soulmaster Why do you want the votes tied? We have to lynch correctly 50% of the time to win this game, but if we don't get a lynch today that jumps to 66%. Granted, if we screw up and lynch a Townie today, we'll still have to lynch correctly 66% of the time from that point on to win, but we'll have one fewer suspect. So there really is no scenario in which a No Lynch today would be better than lynching.
This is exactly why I said:
We have decided that we need to do everything within our power to prevent a lynch on Day One, so at the end of the day we end up with 9 votes on 7 people, no lynch, then a nightkill, and then we start Day Two almost exactly like Day One: With no information.
Basically, that sets us on a path to expending both of our available mislynches on near-random targets. Why set ourselves back like that?
Why not turn up the heat on one player Day One, press them for something substantive, and start a meaningful discussion now? By that route, we'll have far more reads on Day Two.
Your vote is very safe - you justified it purely by the fact that it tied the votes, with no thought for whether or not your target was Scum, and expect it to be interpreted as a towntell because the site meta preaches that trying to prevent lynches is Pro-Town. But it isn't.
FoS: Soulmaster
@Soulmaster Why do you want the votes tied? We have to lynch correctly 50% of the time to win this game, but if we don't get a lynch today that jumps to 66%. Granted, if we screw up and lynch a Townie today, we'll still have to lynch correctly 66% of the time from that point on to win, but we'll have one fewer suspect. So there really is no scenario in which a No Lynch today would be better than lynching.
This is exactly why I said:
We have decided that we need to do everything within our power to prevent a lynch on Day One, so at the end of the day we end up with 9 votes on 7 people, no lynch, then a nightkill, and then we start Day Two almost exactly like Day One: With no information.
Basically, that sets us on a path to expending both of our available mislynches on near-random targets. Why set ourselves back like that?
Why not turn up the heat on one player Day One, press them for something substantive, and start a meaningful discussion now? By that route, we'll have far more reads on Day Two.
Your vote is very safe - you justified it purely by the fact that it tied the votes, with no thought for whether or not your target was Scum, and expect it to be interpreted as a towntell because the site meta preaches that trying to prevent lynches is Pro-Town. But it isn't.
FoS: Soulmaster
Soulmaster
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Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)
...I want to be able to go against this somehow but math doesn't lie. And your math looks sound from my point of view.
but doubly, if you want a lynch so bad why don't you unvote twins that way Aerial Ace is lynched? While you make some sense it isn't enough to warrant an unvote from me quite yet. The two of you could be scum buddies so you wouldn't want him to be lynched.
...I want to be able to go against this somehow but math doesn't lie. And your math looks sound from my point of view.
but doubly, if you want a lynch so bad why don't you unvote twins that way Aerial Ace is lynched? While you make some sense it isn't enough to warrant an unvote from me quite yet. The two of you could be scum buddies so you wouldn't want him to be lynched.
hurristat
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Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)
@Master Mew; Your question is based off the assumption that Phoenicks is mafia. In order for him to become obv-scum, he needs to be scum first.
That said, if Phoenicks is scum, I expect him to become obv-scum in probably seven or so phases. He can hide for a while, but if he's that obvious, then we'll find him.
And yes, I'll vote for him if he's mafia. What sort of question is that? You're just gonna walk yourself in WIFOM circles ascertaining any good info out of it.
Your last question is similarly walking in WIFOM circles and doesn't really mean anything without context.
I don't really see how your specific questions to me help the town move forward at all.
@Master Mew; Your question is based off the assumption that Phoenicks is mafia. In order for him to become obv-scum, he needs to be scum first.
That said, if Phoenicks is scum, I expect him to become obv-scum in probably seven or so phases. He can hide for a while, but if he's that obvious, then we'll find him.
And yes, I'll vote for him if he's mafia. What sort of question is that? You're just gonna walk yourself in WIFOM circles ascertaining any good info out of it.
Your last question is similarly walking in WIFOM circles and doesn't really mean anything without context.
I don't really see how your specific questions to me help the town move forward at all.
Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)
Let's try something new: If you're NOT engaging with the game, trying to understand, and posting your responses, then you are anti-town. The most surefire way to be lynched is to show that you have not attempted to understand. This is a basic requirement of signing up for mafia. If you act this way, your behavior hurts the town and the enjoyment of the game. If you're lying low because you don't like such behavior (I'm guilty of that), please help me kill it.
"Conclusion: No Lynching is not really an option today, and won't be at any point in the game barring a successful Doctor protection."
"No Lynching is not really an option"
I agree with this assessment because Master Mew's analysis is factually correct. You do not have the luxury of disagreeing unless you can demonstrate that his analysis is incorrect.
Because, without any conversation about how a Day 1 RVS [Random Voting Stage] wagon is supposed to work, I didn't trust Bulbagarden to not turn this into quick lynch [a lynch without any discussion]. Come on, Master Mew, you know that.
This is mostly the reaction voting stage -- you don't really need a reason. Everything's about gathering information. (By the way, nice to see you again and welcome to The War Room.)
Voting for the purpose of getting a reaction. It helps us gather information because some people act differently when pressed with a vote, or when forced to appear. And, in many cases, some people only start to post when you pressure them to begin with. It's unfortunate.
why do you think this
why did you do this
then why did you post one
But @Master Mew; Why did you follow the vote?[/QUOTE]
Unvote: TM40 Aerial Ace
No more "tie" -- especially since ties are meaningless in this game.
Do you have anything to say in response to what Master Mew has said (and meant)?
It's not about "wanting a lynch so bad" -- it's about needing to lynch to have a shot of winning this game. Lynching -- and scumhunting -- is the only way to win. I could ask you: If you want to win the game so bad, why do you attack Master Mew's premises?
Any two players could be scum buddies.
Let's try something new: If you're NOT engaging with the game, trying to understand, and posting your responses, then you are anti-town. The most surefire way to be lynched is to show that you have not attempted to understand. This is a basic requirement of signing up for mafia. If you act this way, your behavior hurts the town and the enjoyment of the game. If you're lying low because you don't like such behavior (I'm guilty of that), please help me kill it.
"Conclusion: No Lynching is not really an option today, and won't be at any point in the game barring a successful Doctor protection."
"No Lynching is not really an option"
I agree with this assessment because Master Mew's analysis is factually correct. You do not have the luxury of disagreeing unless you can demonstrate that his analysis is incorrect.
I don't like yelling, but I'm at my wit's end in trying to play games where all the players have read and understand the rules. We should expect better. I apologize to theMissingno. if this puts a pox on his game.
@Phoenicks Why did you move your vote from twinArmageddons to pressure-vote Aerial Ace, when the twinArmageddons wagon had not yet accomplished the purpose of the early RVS wagon? i.e. Why start pressuring Aerial Ace with your vote, when we weren't finished pressuring twinArmageddons?
Because, without any conversation about how a Day 1 RVS [Random Voting Stage] wagon is supposed to work, I didn't trust Bulbagarden to not turn this into quick lynch [a lynch without any discussion]. Come on, Master Mew, you know that.
This is mostly the reaction voting stage -- you don't really need a reason. Everything's about gathering information. (By the way, nice to see you again and welcome to The War Room.)
Voting for the purpose of getting a reaction. It helps us gather information because some people act differently when pressed with a vote, or when forced to appear. And, in many cases, some people only start to post when you pressure them to begin with. It's unfortunate.
why do you think this
why did you do this
then why did you post one
But @Master Mew; Why did you follow the vote?[/QUOTE]
The rules we are all expected to read said:
Unvote: TM40 Aerial Ace
No more "tie" -- especially since ties are meaningless in this game.
Do you have anything to say in response to what Master Mew has said (and meant)?
It's not about "wanting a lynch so bad" -- it's about needing to lynch to have a shot of winning this game. Lynching -- and scumhunting -- is the only way to win. I could ask you: If you want to win the game so bad, why do you attack Master Mew's premises?
Any two players could be scum buddies.
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Master Mew
Level 7
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Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)
@Zima Hi.
@Orion Hi.
@Dark Blueberry What are your thoughts?
The clock is running down and I don't feel like wasting any more time vainly trying to squeeze content out of RVS, so let's get down to business.
Unvote: twinArmageddons
Vote: Soulmaster
You've expressed a desire to impede what you admit is optimal Town play. This is anti-Town behavior and warrants a lynch if said behavior does not change.
I disagree - one can be obv-scum without actually being scum. In fact, I've found obv-scum to be innocent as often as they are guilty - scum are rarely truly obvious.
So if Phoenicks is scum you figure we'll have him sniffed out by Day 4?
Not the question that I asked.
Just wanted to know if you had any gutreads on Phoenicks by the time you would get around to responding - I did not expect a prompt response, so I figured Nick would have gotten a post in before you answered. If you'd waited another half-hour, I would have been right. ;-)
Why do you, "want to be able to go against this somehow?" If the math is sound (and it is), what prompts this resistence?
@Zima Hi.
@Orion Hi.
@Dark Blueberry What are your thoughts?
The clock is running down and I don't feel like wasting any more time vainly trying to squeeze content out of RVS, so let's get down to business.
Unvote: twinArmageddons
Vote: Soulmaster
You've expressed a desire to impede what you admit is optimal Town play. This is anti-Town behavior and warrants a lynch if said behavior does not change.
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