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^ Is a shiny Pokemon.
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What does ^'s usertitle tell you about them?
- Thread starter Pyradox
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^ is a fluffy dog.
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is a magical fox
canisaries
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^ is something that doesn't exist, for multiple reasons.
"fox" i am so triggered. i'll never understand why people insist on eeveelutions being foxes. have people never heard of servals or caracals? eeveelutions have obvious cat faces (short, downward muzzle, triangular nose), big ears aren't enough to make it a fox.
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^ doesn't support the Dome Fossil
Ereshkigal
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^ Is someone's personal demon.
Big ears like the Eevee are only indicative of fennec foxes. Foxes in general tend to have ears more similar to some cat breeds. The face description you give is also indicative of some dog breeds, though not the more common ones. The easiest way to tell felids apart from canids, assuming you can't see the eyes or claws, is to look at the tails.
Eevees, overall, have the bodyplan of a modern small specialty-breed dog.
Big ears like the Eevee are only indicative of fennec foxes. Foxes in general tend to have ears more similar to some cat breeds. The face description you give is also indicative of some dog breeds, though not the more common ones. The easiest way to tell felids apart from canids, assuming you can't see the eyes or claws, is to look at the tails.
Eevees, overall, have the bodyplan of a modern small specialty-breed dog.
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^ is so very accurate, considering the wall of text you're about to receive.
Red foxes have relatively big ears, and they usually take priority in evaluation in pop culture, since red foxes are what most people think of when they say "fox" (so talking about the lesser known shorter-eared foxes isn't really valid, since those are not what people think when they call Eeveelutions "foxes" anyway - more on that later). And the people who draw "realistic" Eeveelutions draw them as red/fennec foxes. While the ears match, no question there, their muzzles do not in the slightest. It looks tacked on and not a natural derivation of the fictional species' looks.
Now, let's look at some pokemon whose species we already more or less know.
Skitty. Delcatty. Both have enormous ears, yet everyone treats them as cats. How come? Flat faces?
http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/2/22/PinRS301.png
Delcatty's face is pretty close to that of an Eeveelution. And as that art shows, its face isn't even that flat. Still, it's considered to be a cat.
Now let's look at fox pokemon. Fennekin, Zorua, Vulpix. With the former two, their long, narrow, pointed muzzles are apparent, and even with the rather chibi Vulpix, you'll see that the muzzle is more prominent than in the Eeveelutions:
https://img.pokemondb.net/artwork/vulpix.jpg
https://68.media.tumblr.com/3d3e6c41da4b36310a9b579c05b51d20/tumblr_o0f1r7CaGY1v2gj5xo1_500.gif
And keep in mind that Vulpix is a fox kit. It's supposed to have a less prominent muzzle, because animal babies are more rounded.
All the while the fully evolved Eeveelutions still have small noses, small muzzles and big, big eyes. Wouldn't a full grown specimen be less neotenized? Unless, of course, they are closer to a less canine/vulpine species. With big, noticeable eyes. And triangular, flat, small noses on short muzzles... Isn't that a fitting description of a small feline?
Calling attention to the body shape is a pretty shoddy argument, since pokemon carnivorans tend to have very incorrect body anatomy nonetheless. Namely in their chests and front legs. Just look at Mightyena. Its elbows are at the same height as its heels, which is incorrect for striped hyenas, wolves, and pretty much every running-oriented, long-legged carnivoran it could or couldn't be based on.
On the subject of the tails, cats can have bushy tails as well. When it comes to telling canids apart from felids, usually it's best to consider the face or the legs. Legs, however, are pretty much similar on all fox, dog and cat pokemon, so it's not a useful criterion in this case.
Now, I have no issue with people giving Eeveelutions vulpine or canine features, but calling them full-on "foxes" or "dogs" just does not fit in the slightest. Calling them "cats" isn't doing them too much justice, but certainly more than "fox" or "dog" - we use these words to draw association to the most known, perhaps "ideal" versions of these creatures. "Dog" is not accurate, when you think about what, say, cartoon dogs usually look like - and cartoons are abstractions of real life creatures and objects. These abstractions highlight the most prominent features, which in foxes' and dogs' cases, mean long muzzles and rather round rhinaria among other things. "(Small) Cat" cartoons typically have flat faces, since we know cats to have shorter, flatter muzzles.
"Modern small specialty-breed dog", as you put it, may be a bit more accurate, but that's a lot of words to write (and it still doesn't really match the face, which is usually the most prominent part in animal designs).
The best course of action when creating "realistic" versions of Eeveelutions would be to mix and match elements so that they make for a fitting and accurate portrayal of the monster. Not just say it's a "fox" and slap some elemental features onto a red/fennec fox.
But if this isn't enough to sway the opinions of pokemon fans and artists, at the very least, people should realize that Espeon is obviously a cat, based on its long, narrow tail and mythological inspiration, the bake-neko. Plus, its ear tufts resemble those of caracals.
If Eeveelution are going to be called foxes, I'd hope it's at least limited to Jolteon, Flareon and Umbreon, even if Jolteon's short or even completely nonexistent tail is more close to that of a lynx or a manx. Flareon has mostly its colors and tail going for it. Umbreon has rather bony legs, which is characteristic of canids, and it seems to take influence from Anubis, a jackal-headed god. Although it is also reported to be based on the Moon Rabbit, which is another explanation for its strangely un-Eevee-like ears. An artist by the name of Culpeo-Fox, who also considers the Eeveelutions to not be vulpine for similar reasons I have reported says he considers the creatures to be both cat- and bunny-like (while he himself both likes Eeveelutions and foxes, and is sick of people telling him to make his Eeveelutions more fox-like).
On the subject of Sylveon, its entire face is way too round (just looks at how low and thick its cheeks are) for me to consider it any kind of canid. But to be honest, it's barely even an animal. It's the most neotenized of the Eeveelutions, probably because of its type, and it's very abstracted. It's pretty clear from looking at it that it was designed as "an Eeveelution" primarily, meaning that the designers leaned on the previous designs more than real life species. But to me, it certainly is no fox.
Now, let's look at some pokemon whose species we already more or less know.
Skitty. Delcatty. Both have enormous ears, yet everyone treats them as cats. How come? Flat faces?
http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/2/22/PinRS301.png
Delcatty's face is pretty close to that of an Eeveelution. And as that art shows, its face isn't even that flat. Still, it's considered to be a cat.
Now let's look at fox pokemon. Fennekin, Zorua, Vulpix. With the former two, their long, narrow, pointed muzzles are apparent, and even with the rather chibi Vulpix, you'll see that the muzzle is more prominent than in the Eeveelutions:
https://img.pokemondb.net/artwork/vulpix.jpg
https://68.media.tumblr.com/3d3e6c41da4b36310a9b579c05b51d20/tumblr_o0f1r7CaGY1v2gj5xo1_500.gif
And keep in mind that Vulpix is a fox kit. It's supposed to have a less prominent muzzle, because animal babies are more rounded.
All the while the fully evolved Eeveelutions still have small noses, small muzzles and big, big eyes. Wouldn't a full grown specimen be less neotenized? Unless, of course, they are closer to a less canine/vulpine species. With big, noticeable eyes. And triangular, flat, small noses on short muzzles... Isn't that a fitting description of a small feline?
Calling attention to the body shape is a pretty shoddy argument, since pokemon carnivorans tend to have very incorrect body anatomy nonetheless. Namely in their chests and front legs. Just look at Mightyena. Its elbows are at the same height as its heels, which is incorrect for striped hyenas, wolves, and pretty much every running-oriented, long-legged carnivoran it could or couldn't be based on.
On the subject of the tails, cats can have bushy tails as well. When it comes to telling canids apart from felids, usually it's best to consider the face or the legs. Legs, however, are pretty much similar on all fox, dog and cat pokemon, so it's not a useful criterion in this case.
Now, I have no issue with people giving Eeveelutions vulpine or canine features, but calling them full-on "foxes" or "dogs" just does not fit in the slightest. Calling them "cats" isn't doing them too much justice, but certainly more than "fox" or "dog" - we use these words to draw association to the most known, perhaps "ideal" versions of these creatures. "Dog" is not accurate, when you think about what, say, cartoon dogs usually look like - and cartoons are abstractions of real life creatures and objects. These abstractions highlight the most prominent features, which in foxes' and dogs' cases, mean long muzzles and rather round rhinaria among other things. "(Small) Cat" cartoons typically have flat faces, since we know cats to have shorter, flatter muzzles.
"Modern small specialty-breed dog", as you put it, may be a bit more accurate, but that's a lot of words to write (and it still doesn't really match the face, which is usually the most prominent part in animal designs).
The best course of action when creating "realistic" versions of Eeveelutions would be to mix and match elements so that they make for a fitting and accurate portrayal of the monster. Not just say it's a "fox" and slap some elemental features onto a red/fennec fox.
But if this isn't enough to sway the opinions of pokemon fans and artists, at the very least, people should realize that Espeon is obviously a cat, based on its long, narrow tail and mythological inspiration, the bake-neko. Plus, its ear tufts resemble those of caracals.
If Eeveelution are going to be called foxes, I'd hope it's at least limited to Jolteon, Flareon and Umbreon, even if Jolteon's short or even completely nonexistent tail is more close to that of a lynx or a manx. Flareon has mostly its colors and tail going for it. Umbreon has rather bony legs, which is characteristic of canids, and it seems to take influence from Anubis, a jackal-headed god. Although it is also reported to be based on the Moon Rabbit, which is another explanation for its strangely un-Eevee-like ears. An artist by the name of Culpeo-Fox, who also considers the Eeveelutions to not be vulpine for similar reasons I have reported says he considers the creatures to be both cat- and bunny-like (while he himself both likes Eeveelutions and foxes, and is sick of people telling him to make his Eeveelutions more fox-like).
On the subject of Sylveon, its entire face is way too round (just looks at how low and thick its cheeks are) for me to consider it any kind of canid. But to be honest, it's barely even an animal. It's the most neotenized of the Eeveelutions, probably because of its type, and it's very abstracted. It's pretty clear from looking at it that it was designed as "an Eeveelution" primarily, meaning that the designers leaned on the previous designs more than real life species. But to me, it certainly is no fox.
Ereshkigal
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^ understands the value of worshipping our great Lord Helix.
Body shape is pretty much all we have with Eevee. Especially since no Pokemon is really presented as that realistic in design. One of the most realistic ones is actually Lapras... and then only because it's based on a real-world depiction of the Loch Ness Monster. That is important to note, since if you read the Dex entries, it becomes rather obvious that Lapras is actually intended to be a dolphin. So keep in mind that GF doesn't necessarily care about accuracy in depictions.
Skitty and Delcatty are considered cats because of the general feline appearance and the fact that they have terms for cats in their names. Plus Skitty is also called, in Dex entries, the Kitten Pokemon.
Also, Vulpix isn't a fox. It's considered a fox because of the fox characteristics and the fact the Dex calls it the Fox Pokemon, but if you look through myths you'll find Vulpix and Ninetales are both actually kitsune, or basically trickster spirits that can sometimes take the appearances of foxes. They also frequently take on the appearances of humans. One thing they're notable for is the fact that they have multiple tails in their fox form and have to hide tails in their human form, making it pretty obvious they're not either species.
Zorua? Again, based somewhat on kitsune. The difficulty hiding the tail in human form is the give-away on that, plus the title of being the Tricky Fox Pokemon. They're not even trying to hide the origin of that one.
Fennekin is arguably the only actual fox of your list of fox examples. It's quite obviously based on the Fennec Fox, though it does share some Kitsune characteristics. But given how obvious they have been with the other examples that they're not based on actual foxes and the levels of obviousness, it's arguable this one actually is a fox. And even then, it's based on a breed of fox known for its large ears... making it an exception, again, for the standard depictions of foxes.
Notice we don't have a standard fox pokemon in any of your examples? We have spirits, and we have a fox species notable for an unusual trait for foxes.
Mightyena is why I cited general body shape, as opposed to specific body traits. Mightyena is pretty much a canine-hyena hybrid, and an example of how confusing paying attention to specific details can be when trying to figure out the taxonomy of creatures that do not exist in our world and do not obey our rules of evolution. There are very few Pokemon based off only a single animal, and even then the animal is usually mythical as opposed to real. The Fennekin line, for example, is based on fennec foxes and gypsies, making it one of the Pokemon that has humans as a basis for its appearance. And even then, they'll sometimes blend the behavior of an entirely different animal in, like they did with Lapras.
Chests and front legs are also not going to tell you much, since they're rarely accurate in Pokemon anyway. Typically, you have to rely either on faces, general body plan, readily-obvious features, or a title to figure it out. Also, a cat's bushy tail is easy to tell apart from a dog's.
The problem with Eevee is we can't used its evolutions to pin it down. Espeon is obviously based on a mythical feline, but Flareon resembles a hybrid between a fox and a pomeranian, Jolteon resembles a herding dog mixed with a coyote, and Vaporeon is basically a mermaid-like animal.
Basically, I think people say fox not because they think it's actually a fox, but because the fox-like ears are the only consistent design aspect between Eevee and its evolutions. It's a simple matter of not wanting to spend hours designing nine new animals from scratch. Especially since the ears of Eevee are definitely not rabbit ears and match no ear ever had by a rabbit; if anything, I would say rabbit is the one mammal you can say for certain the Eeveelutions take no inspiration from.
Skitty and Delcatty are considered cats because of the general feline appearance and the fact that they have terms for cats in their names. Plus Skitty is also called, in Dex entries, the Kitten Pokemon.
Also, Vulpix isn't a fox. It's considered a fox because of the fox characteristics and the fact the Dex calls it the Fox Pokemon, but if you look through myths you'll find Vulpix and Ninetales are both actually kitsune, or basically trickster spirits that can sometimes take the appearances of foxes. They also frequently take on the appearances of humans. One thing they're notable for is the fact that they have multiple tails in their fox form and have to hide tails in their human form, making it pretty obvious they're not either species.
Zorua? Again, based somewhat on kitsune. The difficulty hiding the tail in human form is the give-away on that, plus the title of being the Tricky Fox Pokemon. They're not even trying to hide the origin of that one.
Fennekin is arguably the only actual fox of your list of fox examples. It's quite obviously based on the Fennec Fox, though it does share some Kitsune characteristics. But given how obvious they have been with the other examples that they're not based on actual foxes and the levels of obviousness, it's arguable this one actually is a fox. And even then, it's based on a breed of fox known for its large ears... making it an exception, again, for the standard depictions of foxes.
Notice we don't have a standard fox pokemon in any of your examples? We have spirits, and we have a fox species notable for an unusual trait for foxes.
Mightyena is why I cited general body shape, as opposed to specific body traits. Mightyena is pretty much a canine-hyena hybrid, and an example of how confusing paying attention to specific details can be when trying to figure out the taxonomy of creatures that do not exist in our world and do not obey our rules of evolution. There are very few Pokemon based off only a single animal, and even then the animal is usually mythical as opposed to real. The Fennekin line, for example, is based on fennec foxes and gypsies, making it one of the Pokemon that has humans as a basis for its appearance. And even then, they'll sometimes blend the behavior of an entirely different animal in, like they did with Lapras.
Chests and front legs are also not going to tell you much, since they're rarely accurate in Pokemon anyway. Typically, you have to rely either on faces, general body plan, readily-obvious features, or a title to figure it out. Also, a cat's bushy tail is easy to tell apart from a dog's.
The problem with Eevee is we can't used its evolutions to pin it down. Espeon is obviously based on a mythical feline, but Flareon resembles a hybrid between a fox and a pomeranian, Jolteon resembles a herding dog mixed with a coyote, and Vaporeon is basically a mermaid-like animal.
Basically, I think people say fox not because they think it's actually a fox, but because the fox-like ears are the only consistent design aspect between Eevee and its evolutions. It's a simple matter of not wanting to spend hours designing nine new animals from scratch. Especially since the ears of Eevee are definitely not rabbit ears and match no ear ever had by a rabbit; if anything, I would say rabbit is the one mammal you can say for certain the Eeveelutions take no inspiration from.
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Talks too much.
(Or maybe Eevee is a Cartoon Creature.)
(Or maybe Eevee is a Cartoon Creature.)
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wants to bend my body in ways that would definitely kill me
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^ has watched the Demented Cartoon Movie recently??
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^ sarcastically feels sorry for someone.
(Does anyone actually know what my usertitle is referencing?)
(Does anyone actually know what my usertitle is referencing?)
MegaPod
Ancient Arrow Avian
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(sorry, not me...)
I'll just use my imagination, and say that the above user drew a blank while trying to recall a dream for their dream journal.
I'll just use my imagination, and say that the above user drew a blank while trying to recall a dream for their dream journal.
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likes fancy names for things
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This story is...
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^ is struggling to remember their dream.
Jyo
"Fun tough work taking care of our Eevees." *Purr*
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is a good looking fairy fox, with intertwinning ribbons
Vees (not Espy or Vappy) = foxes (at least 90%)
to me, all except for Espeon, partly Vappy - resemble foxes, with the big ears based on the Fennec Fox, body shape also remind me of foxes (especially with Eevee, Flareon, and Umbreon have the most fox-like body shape from all, Jolty, Leafy and Glaceon as well) - most Vees are foxes with some cat-like traits - then Espy is the only one that really looks like a cat out of all of them, with Fennec fox-like ears - for Vaporeon I call it 34%/33%33% fox/cat/cat-fish, we all have differences in opinions. That's mine
Vees (not Espy or Vappy) = foxes (at least 90%)
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