CrystaI
The Pokemon Observer
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2011
- Messages
- 1,174
- Reaction score
- 641
@pokemon fan 132. You are missing a point here. The OP's question was what would happened if Ash was replaced before the start of Johto saga, and where the Johto saga is now about the story of a new trainer completely different from Ash. So referring to the complaining of Misty being replaced after the Johto saga, and that it is only one single character being replaced but not the entire group, is really irrelevant.
For the reason of why exchanging Goku to Gohan in Dragonballz received so much complaints, is because during that time, Dragonball series had ran for more than 10 years. Goku had already iconized, so replacing him with a different protagonist is rather unacceptable for the audience.
For any anime series, the longer it had run, the more difficult it will become to eliminate the protagonist. When it run up to certain point, it will become technically impossible.
Even for me, I do agreed that it is now impossible to replace Ash after 17 years. He is unfortunately became the icon of the anime, despite that many people getting bored of him. In fact, it had already became impossible after Johto before Heonn, as during that time the anime had ran for more than 5 years, which already fixate itself to be a long-running anime by that time.
But in the case of as early as before the start of Johto, so after the Orange Island saga, the anime was merely ran for 116 episodes, roughly little bit more than 2 years. So it is not impossible to replace Ash back at that time. Rather, that is really the best time to replace Ash, as the anime had not yet become too long to the point of protagonist becoming fixture of the Pokemon Anime.
The animes that replace protagonist, especially Yu-Gi-Oh and Beyblade, they have the problem of the first saga being too long, making the protagonist and the main group of the first series becoming the icon of the franchise. The nostalgia within the audience group will also be much greater.
But, for the yearly anime series that a complete new story is told after roughly 52 episodes, there just doesn't exist the problem of the very first protagonist of the very first saga being iconized. Although it is still true that the first protagonist have a special place in the audience's heart, but they will not become the sole icon to represent the entire franchise. The nostalgia issue within the audience will also be not that great compare to anime series having super long first saga. Also, about the rating issues, it is true that generally the second saga's rating seldom surpass the first saga, with the exception of several few selected series having very successful second saga. But when you look into the bigger picture, ratings actually fluctuate for each different saga within a series, there exist possibilities that future sagas having higher ratings than the first saga. An one-time low rating is not proof of the franchise is doing poorly.
And you are also missing the second point here. The meaning of replacing protagonist is not merely exchange the physical body but keeping the same personality and mental mind, follow the exact same footstep and having exact same objective like the previous protagonist. It is replacing every settings. The physical looks, mental minds and personalities, Pokemon he/she will possess, story plot, friends that will tag along, trainers and persons he/she will encounter, places where he/she will go, villains he/she will battle, methods and mannerism of how he/she will battle, relationships between each characters, reasons and goals of his/her journey, the achievements, timeline and world geography, etc. They will all be different. No one ever said a trainer travels the world is only for the reason of entering Pokemon League. Just look at the Pokemon Special manga.
And in order to exchange protagonist and hence exchange to a complete new story, very obviously the previous story must be finished. No, not written off as null, but rather give a plausible ending. For all those anime series that exchange protagonist, the story of the previous protagonist are basically "completed", there is just no reason to establish a new story on the same protagonist.
So in case of Ash Ketchum, finishing Orange League is really IMO the best time, where that seems plausible to provide an ending to his story. And then very obviously, the last several episodes of OI need to have a complete different story plot in order to establish the ending.
Don't you see the problem of exchanging Misty after Johto, is that 1) she was left on a sour note, 2) in most audience's eyes back at that time, Ash, Misty and Brock are treat as one unity, eliminating any one of them is a poor move. If need to be eliminated, then the best is all three are eliminated, hence meaning finish off Ash's story.
Keeping only Ash for the purpose of relating to the old series is an absolute poor and awkward move, and it is also miserable for the audience as well following him for so long but yet unable to see an ending of him. As you had browsed the Anime section of not only Bulbagarden, but also other Pokemon forums as well, you should see quite a large portion of the causal viewers of anime still watching it today not because they love Ash, but merely wanted to see the ending. They are not interested in how he struggles during his journey, they tune in to watch it just for a 25min brief entertainment, and if the show cannot entertain them, they just leave. There are just fewer and fewer religious followers of Pokemon anime every successive year. Hoping for an ending =/= Loving Ash.
Also, the statement of kids prefer naive, absent-minded, hotheaded and stubborn Idiot Hero protagonists is completely an opinion. There are so many kids anime protagonist that doesn't have any of those characteristics, but loved by many.
You should rationalize your argument with facts and statistics if you want to be persuasive.
Replacing protagonist and providing a complete new story saga IMO is rather a clever move. But the point is, it needs to be done at the early stage of the anime series, establish such anime formula by continuously exchanging protagonist in future saga as well, such that to implant that formula into the audience's mind, and eventually audience will get used to it and will not complain.
For the reason of why exchanging Goku to Gohan in Dragonballz received so much complaints, is because during that time, Dragonball series had ran for more than 10 years. Goku had already iconized, so replacing him with a different protagonist is rather unacceptable for the audience.
For any anime series, the longer it had run, the more difficult it will become to eliminate the protagonist. When it run up to certain point, it will become technically impossible.
Even for me, I do agreed that it is now impossible to replace Ash after 17 years. He is unfortunately became the icon of the anime, despite that many people getting bored of him. In fact, it had already became impossible after Johto before Heonn, as during that time the anime had ran for more than 5 years, which already fixate itself to be a long-running anime by that time.
But in the case of as early as before the start of Johto, so after the Orange Island saga, the anime was merely ran for 116 episodes, roughly little bit more than 2 years. So it is not impossible to replace Ash back at that time. Rather, that is really the best time to replace Ash, as the anime had not yet become too long to the point of protagonist becoming fixture of the Pokemon Anime.
The animes that replace protagonist, especially Yu-Gi-Oh and Beyblade, they have the problem of the first saga being too long, making the protagonist and the main group of the first series becoming the icon of the franchise. The nostalgia within the audience group will also be much greater.
But, for the yearly anime series that a complete new story is told after roughly 52 episodes, there just doesn't exist the problem of the very first protagonist of the very first saga being iconized. Although it is still true that the first protagonist have a special place in the audience's heart, but they will not become the sole icon to represent the entire franchise. The nostalgia issue within the audience will also be not that great compare to anime series having super long first saga. Also, about the rating issues, it is true that generally the second saga's rating seldom surpass the first saga, with the exception of several few selected series having very successful second saga. But when you look into the bigger picture, ratings actually fluctuate for each different saga within a series, there exist possibilities that future sagas having higher ratings than the first saga. An one-time low rating is not proof of the franchise is doing poorly.
And you are also missing the second point here. The meaning of replacing protagonist is not merely exchange the physical body but keeping the same personality and mental mind, follow the exact same footstep and having exact same objective like the previous protagonist. It is replacing every settings. The physical looks, mental minds and personalities, Pokemon he/she will possess, story plot, friends that will tag along, trainers and persons he/she will encounter, places where he/she will go, villains he/she will battle, methods and mannerism of how he/she will battle, relationships between each characters, reasons and goals of his/her journey, the achievements, timeline and world geography, etc. They will all be different. No one ever said a trainer travels the world is only for the reason of entering Pokemon League. Just look at the Pokemon Special manga.
And in order to exchange protagonist and hence exchange to a complete new story, very obviously the previous story must be finished. No, not written off as null, but rather give a plausible ending. For all those anime series that exchange protagonist, the story of the previous protagonist are basically "completed", there is just no reason to establish a new story on the same protagonist.
So in case of Ash Ketchum, finishing Orange League is really IMO the best time, where that seems plausible to provide an ending to his story. And then very obviously, the last several episodes of OI need to have a complete different story plot in order to establish the ending.
Don't you see the problem of exchanging Misty after Johto, is that 1) she was left on a sour note, 2) in most audience's eyes back at that time, Ash, Misty and Brock are treat as one unity, eliminating any one of them is a poor move. If need to be eliminated, then the best is all three are eliminated, hence meaning finish off Ash's story.
Keeping only Ash for the purpose of relating to the old series is an absolute poor and awkward move, and it is also miserable for the audience as well following him for so long but yet unable to see an ending of him. As you had browsed the Anime section of not only Bulbagarden, but also other Pokemon forums as well, you should see quite a large portion of the causal viewers of anime still watching it today not because they love Ash, but merely wanted to see the ending. They are not interested in how he struggles during his journey, they tune in to watch it just for a 25min brief entertainment, and if the show cannot entertain them, they just leave. There are just fewer and fewer religious followers of Pokemon anime every successive year. Hoping for an ending =/= Loving Ash.
Also, the statement of kids prefer naive, absent-minded, hotheaded and stubborn Idiot Hero protagonists is completely an opinion. There are so many kids anime protagonist that doesn't have any of those characteristics, but loved by many.
You should rationalize your argument with facts and statistics if you want to be persuasive.
Replacing protagonist and providing a complete new story saga IMO is rather a clever move. But the point is, it needs to be done at the early stage of the anime series, establish such anime formula by continuously exchanging protagonist in future saga as well, such that to implant that formula into the audience's mind, and eventually audience will get used to it and will not complain.
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