Will this take place after XY? What of Mega Evolution?

[Necrozma]

Notice how the tweet only mentions main series games and there are no remakes listed here?

If he wanted be ambiguous, he would have said 'gen 1 = gen 3' for example, but he specifically excluded the remakes which only makes sense because remakes screw everything up by applying the mechanics and updates of latest games to the old ones.

Red/Green/Blue/Yellow = Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald -> (3 years later) Gold/Silver/Crystal = Diamond/Pearl/Platinum -> (time gap) Black/White -> (2 years later) Black 2/White 2 = XY

Since the remakes are just that, remakes, it's safe to assume they are not a part of this timeline. Therefore, there is no need to ponder over whether this whole thing is a retcon or not.

 

[lugia61617]

New content overwrites old content, therefore the remakes would be the "primary canon" while the originals are now "redundant canon". The above timeline tweet holds no real meaning in as much as you just substitute any game listed with its remake, if it has one.

Otherwise you have the problem of steel-types being recognised (RS) at the same time that they weren't discovered (Red/Blue).

 

[Necrozma]

Otherwise you have the problem of steel-types being recognised (RS) at the same time that they weren't discovered (Red/Blue).

Ah you have a point there. Yeah that does seem like a problem. xD

 

[Piplup]

I still think this should've been a sequel rather than a remake, for various reasons... RS looks good enough graphics-wise, it has most of the important latest things such as abilities, we can still transfer pkmn from RS to the latest games..... it just didn't need a remake the same way gens 1 and 2 needed it
Mega evolution is a big plot point (unlike types and such, which is much easier for me to accept being retconned into the games, especially if no dialogue mentions them)
They blatantly say in XY that mega evolution so far only happened in Kalos... they're clearly aware and in touch with the other 5 main regions, so I can't believe mega evo happened 6+ years earlier in Hoenn and they wouldn't know...
I don't know, it's gonna be VERY hard to come up with a convincing explanation for this, so I can only hope they'll manage to do it somehow... otherwise the only solution will be to set ORAS at the same time as XY but I don't like the idea of messing up the timeline
It does make me wonder though.... why did they even set RS at the same time as gen 1? if I'm not missing anything, they could easily imply it taking place after GS and everything would work fine... I think that generally they should've always just made each main game take place after all of the previous ones... it may not have helped the mega evo issue, but I think it could've been a better way to handle it (and if FRLG or HGSS had anything to do with it, they could just use some "time machine" thing like they did with RGBY/GSC trades... or ignore it like BW/BW2 trades...)

 

[Silktree]

why did they even set RS at the same time as gen 1? if I'm not missing anything, they could easily imply it taking place after GS and everything would work fine...

It's pretty intuitive to think of games released in the same generation as being contemporary. They actually bothered to add a sidequest to explain Kanto and Hoenn's compatibility. Was it unnecessary? Maybe, but it didn't create any continuity problems (FRLG would have retconned the discovery of eggs and Steel anyway). Generation IV refined this by creating a more meaningful connection between Johto and Sinnoh. Both cases made a lot more sense than what's going on now.

 

[lugia61617]

I still think this should've been a sequel rather than a remake, for various reasons... RS looks good enough graphics-wise, it has most of the important latest things such as abilities, we can still transfer pkmn from RS to the latest games..... it just didn't need a remake the same way gens 1 and 2 needed it
Mega evolution is a big plot point (unlike types and such, which is much easier for me to accept being retconned into the games, especially if no dialogue mentions them)
They blatantly say in XY that mega evolution so far only happened in Kalos... they're clearly aware and in touch with the other 5 main regions, so I can't believe mega evo happened 6+ years earlier in Hoenn and they wouldn't know...
I don't know, it's gonna be VERY hard to come up with a convincing explanation for this, so I can only hope they'll manage to do it somehow... otherwise the only solution will be to set ORAS at the same time as XY but I don't like the idea of messing up the timeline
It does make me wonder though.... why did they even set RS at the same time as gen 1? if I'm not missing anything, they could easily imply it taking place after GS and everything would work fine... I think that generally they should've always just made each main game take place after all of the previous ones... it may not have helped the mega evo issue, but I think it could've been a better way to handle it (and if FRLG or HGSS had anything to do with it, they could just use some "time machine" thing like they did with RGBY/GSC trades... or ignore it like BW/BW2 trades...)

Technically RS are not contemporary with Gen I and II; Gen I and II are isolated from the rest of the continuity because their remakes took their place.
RS were most likely made to be contemporary with the EVENTS of Kanto as a way to justify the remakes of Red/Blue in the story, as well as the connectivity between the two without resorting to "time machine" as an excuse (seriously, it was a dumb one and I'm glad it was retconned out).

I don't mean to come off as nasty, but you seem a bit...irate over something like this which is honestly trivial.

 

[DasManiac]

The Wii U in the bedroom confirms this takes place after or around the same time as X/Y.

 

[Piplup]

I don't mean to come off as nasty, but you seem a bit...irate over something like this which is honestly trivial.

I still don't think it's "trivial" though. As I said, I don't mind things like types and such since they're mostly game mechanics and that's it... but mega evolution, while a game mechanic, is also a big plot point...
Also, assuming they had ORAS in mind when making XY (and they clearly did) then why did they HAVE to blatantly state in XY that mega evolution never happened outside of Kalos so far? (and no, I wouldn't believe it happened in Hoenn 6+ years earlier without anyone in Kalos knowing it by then)
I don't know, it's a whole mess, which honestly had no reason to exist since these remakes weren't really necessary... and if they had to revive Hoenn due to the fan demand or whatever reason, I still think a sequel would make everything much better and would avoid any such continuity issues

The Wii U in the bedroom confirms this takes place after or around the same time as X/Y.

That doesn't necessarily mean anything about the timeline... the pkmn world isn't our world... the Wii U being there is a nod to the current consoles and nothing more, it has no relations to the story at all

 

[lugia61617]

I still don't think it's "trivial" though. As I said, I don't mind things like types and such since they're mostly game mechanics and that's it... but mega evolution, while a game mechanic, is also a big plot point...
Also, assuming they had ORAS in mind when making XY (and they clearly did) then why did they HAVE to blatantly state in XY that mega evolution never happened outside of Kalos so far? (and no, I wouldn't believe it happened in Hoenn 6+ years earlier without anyone in Kalos knowing it by then)
I don't know, it's a whole mess, which honestly had no reason to exist since these remakes weren't really necessary... and if they had to revive Hoenn due to the fan demand or whatever reason, I still think a sequel would make everything much better and would avoid any such continuity issues

RETCONS are called RETCONS for a reason. Regardless of if you think it to be weird, ORAS effectively retcon what they said in XY meaning it is NOT exclusive to Kalos as they suggest. Besides, Mega Evolution wasn't recent either - keep in mind the Mega Evolution tower place in XY with its giant mega-lucario statue. Clearly it is a phenomenon that's been around since not long after the firing of the ultimate weapon. That weapon may have only killed everyone in Kalos, but its energy was immense and could easily have spread around the world to create more mega-stones.

Also, Steven is the only person so far confirmed in-game to have even vague knowledge of Mega-Evolution, and I doubt he would reveal much because science isn't his thing. He'd probably just be satisfied to know.
Then, there's another matter; its an ancient phenomenon that hasn't been researched much by scientists until the likes of Sycamore started delving in. Even if Steven and the ORAS player gets to use Megas, they wouldn't necessarily share the knowledge with other people because it's so rare and irrelevant to most people.

And last but not least; this is a VIDEO GAME. More to the point, a video game where the continuity has constantly been changed. Stop getting your Togepants in a twist, ok?

 

[Team Gaara]

Also, assuming they had ORAS in mind when making XY (and they clearly did) then why did they HAVE to blatantly state in XY that mega evolution never happened outside of Kalos so far? (and no, I wouldn't believe it happened in Hoenn 6+ years earlier without anyone in Kalos knowing it by then)

I don't think that's what was said. I may be wrong, but I believe they said it had only been reported to have happened in Kalos, not that it was only in Kalos.

But even if that isn't the case, why is it so hard to believe, with how little is known about Mega Evolution, that it could have been found in Hoenn first without anyone is Kalos knowing yet? Only Sycamore researches it, and other than him, only Diantha, Korrina, and Lysandre have a Key Stone. It's not like it's something a whole lot of people know about, so I think it could be similar in Hoenn, that just because not a lot of people know about it, that maybe no one in Kalos knew about it as much by the time of XY.

 

[BlackButterfree]

I imagine the "Mega Stones being unique to Kalos" will be retconned the same way "Steel-types being newly discovered" was after Gold and Silver. They don't necessarily have to do so, though. They could just have Professor Sycamore turn out to have been incorrect, and there was some event in Hoenn's history that created Mega Stones there just like the Ultimate Weapon did in Kalos.

If you look at my post which is directly above yours, I actually came up with a pretty good theory as for why Mega Evolution would be possible in ORAS. ^_^ No one's replied to it, which makes me kind of sad since I put a lot of thought into it. :|

 

[The Outrage]

I don't think that's what was said. I may be wrong, but I believe they said it had only been reported to have happened in Kalos, not that it was only in Kalos.

But even if that isn't the case, why is it so hard to believe, with how little is known about Mega Evolution, that it could have been found in Hoenn first without anyone is Kalos knowing yet? Only Sycamore researches it, and other than him, only Diantha, Korrina, and Lysandre have a Key Stone. It's not like it's something a whole lot of people know about, so I think it could be similar in Hoenn, that just because not a lot of people know about it, that maybe no one in Kalos knew about it as much by the time of XY.

If a league Champion wielding Mega Evolution isn't news-worthy enough, I'm sure news of Groudon and Kyogre would have been.

Though, one thing I do disagree with the fandom is how they magically expect Sycamore to know everything about Mega Evolution just because it turns out Steven's researched it earlier. Mega Evolution has been around for 3000 years in Kalos yet people still don't know much about it. A decade's worth of research isn't even that much considering only two people seem to be working on it--one of them not even trained in empirical research and the other couldn't even master Mega Evolution for himself. For all we know, Steven didn't even get much further on his research other than speculation based on myths and stories.

Since the remakes are just that, remakes, it's safe to assume they are not a part of this timeline. Therefore, there is no need to ponder over whether this whole thing is a retcon or not.

Okay, but then we have events in remakes influencing events in subsequent games. It's hard to argue that remakes are separate from the originals when events in FrLg and HgSs actually tie into the original versions of RS and DPPt.

If Game Freak also opts for a less interesting third version than a game in a new region, then all our continuity errors caused by RS suddenly disappear (assuming they take the time to incorporate it).

 

[HyruleAlpha]

If I know my Pokémon history, FRLG and HGSS retconned their respective generations. ORAS and Mega Evolution will get the same treatment, I'm sure.

 

[The Outrage]

If I know my Pokémon history, FRLG and HGSS retconned their respective generations. ORAS and Mega Evolution will get the same treatment, I'm sure.

What did FrLg retcon that was specifically stated in RS? What did HgSs retcon that was specifically stated in DPPt? Make a claim, back it up.

If anything FrLg cemented RS in its timeline with its convoluted post-game Network machine plot to get a simple game mechanic (i.e., trading) going between the games. HgSs supported events in DPPt. Depending on what point in the game you're playing, Jasmine talks about having visited Sinnoh, but being too scared to participate in contests, and being encouraged by Erika to try it (Pokegear registration dialogue; can occur before getting all 16 badges). We don't see Jasmine in Master Rank in DPPt until after we beat the Sinnoh League. And the best part of all this? After getting all 16 badges, you can trade for Jasmine's Sinnoh contest Pokemon, Rusty. The remakes have actually been pretty good at building canon rather than tearing it down.

RS, by virtue of being in the same place in the timeline had a greater effect on RBY and GSC canon than FrLg did on RS. Since it treated Steel and Dark types as normal, it basically made the whole "newly discovered" thing moot. FrLg basically tried to ignore new evolutions and still made no reference to Steel/Dark types even though they were there.

You know, if we really think about it, RS/ORAS just forces retcons on everything.

 

[HyruleAlpha]

If I know my Pokémon history, FRLG and HGSS retconned their respective generations. ORAS and Mega Evolution will get the same treatment, I'm sure.

What did FrLg retcon that was specifically stated in RS? What did HgSs retcon that was specifically stated in DPPt? Make a claim, back it up.

I apologize if my fuzzy memory rustled you in any way. You seem to know more than I do. I was only a young boy-early teen during the first two generations, so my memory of what occurred is jumbled.

Anyway, I was actually talking about what FRLG did to RBY and HGSS did to GSC, but if I am still wrong, I apologize.

 

[The Outrage]

I apologize if my fuzzy memory rustled you in any way. You seem to know more than I do. I was only a young boy-early teen during the first two generations, so my memory of what occurred is jumbled.

Anyway, I was actually talking about what FRLG did to RBY and HGSS did to GSC, but if I am still wrong, I apologize.

I was younger but that's not the point. People here are upset because ORAS is retroactively changing in XY. It's fully expected that ORAS would change RS when FRLG and HGSS did the same to RBY and GSC. However, the remakes have never actually gone so far as to rewrite canon for the generation's main entries within the same generation.

 

[Norzan]

Like i said in my post in the first page of this thread timelines only screw things up, adds absolutely nothing to the franchise when done poorly and just restricts things, all these discussions about retcons, plot holes could have been avoided if people didn't asked for a damn timeline. I'ts the same issue i have with the timeline of Legend Of Zelda, what was the point of the timeline? it just turned everything into a mess, hell even coming up with a timeline that Link is defeated didn't solve everything.

All in all when i play a pokemon game i'm not thinking about the games that came before and that come after, i only care about the game i'm currently playing so i don't see the point of a timeline to try to connect the games. But it's too late, pokemon has an official timeline and it's a mess.

 

[HyruleAlpha]

I apologize if my fuzzy memory rustled you in any way. You seem to know more than I do. I was only a young boy-early teen during the first two generations, so my memory of what occurred is jumbled.

Anyway, I was actually talking about what FRLG did to RBY and HGSS did to GSC, but if I am still wrong, I apologize.

I was younger but that's not the point. People here are upset because ORAS is retroactively changing in XY. It's fully expected that ORAS would change RS when FRLG and HGSS did the same to RBY and GSC. However, the remakes have never actually gone so far as to rewrite canon for the generation's main entries within the same generation.

I have used the wrong word, and made an ignorant statement, then. I apologize.

 

[The Outrage]

Like i said in my post in the first page of this thread timelines only screw things up, adds absolutely nothing to the franchise when done poorly and just restricts things, all these discussions about retcons, plot holes could have been avoided if people didn't asked for a damn timeline. I'ts the same issue i have with the timeline of Legend Of Zelda, what was the point of the timeline? it just turned everything into a mess, hell even coming up with a timeline that Link is defeated didn't solve everything.

"Ask for the damn timeline"

The only thing that tweet revealed was XY's relation to the rest of the games. Everything else was easily inferred given the fandom got everything right (and like I two posts earlier, the events were painted pretty clearly in remakes). I'm pretty sure this fact was pointed out to you many times as well.

Would we still have this problem had we not known XY's placement in the timeline? Ignoring actual references in the game that makes it take place after Gen I (like Blue studying in Kalos and Looker's entire subplot), it was specifically stated in-game that Mega Evolution is rare and was limited to Kalos. Suddenly, Mega Evolution has not only reached all the way to an obsessive rock collector in Hoenn (not actually surprising), but that its origins may actually be tied to Hoenn legendaries.

Seems like a contradiction regardless of whether XY was before or after ORAS since now there's a long history of Mega Evolution in the Hoenn region as well.

Mega Evolution could have simply been a game mechanic--Steven hears about it from Kalos and brings Hoenn's new Champion a gift and we can mega evolve. But no. Instead we have a Mega Evolution plot that ties the origins of Mega Evolution to Hoenn. I sure hope they get a better plot than what they came up with in XY.

 

[HyruleAlpha]

I'm fine with what ever happens. Remakes are remakes to me. Just an enhanced version of the older game before it, so I don't see why its placement in the timeline has to change. If the developers want to pretend that Mega Evolution was present in Hoenn, I'm cool with that.