How to Fix the Grass Type

[Envoy]

Despite being one of the three Starter types, Grass' matchups have always been considerably inferior to those of its sister types. Grass Type Starters tend to be either the least popular or the least useful throughout the generations. This is symptomatic of the type itself, which tends to score fairly low among the other types. Grass type Pokemon are plagued with a myriad of problems right off the gate. For starters (lolpun,) Grass types inherently have five weaknesses, most of them to common types (Fire, Flying, Ice.) Having so many weaknesses thus exacerbates their inherent issues. Offensively, Grass doesn't fair much better. It is resisted by seven types, by far the most out of any individual type in the game, thus making Grass offense kind of a joke.

Now, it's not all bad for Grass types. The things they do resist/hit super-effectively are very useful. Advantages against Water, Ground, and Electric help the type stand out as one of the better anti-metagame types. It should also be noted that the type tends to prefer status conditions and indirect damage as their bread and butter. This is something they excel at with moves like Sleep Powder, Spore, Stun Spore, and Leech Seed, to name a few. However, these boons do not, in my opinion, offset the drawbacks of using the type.

So what do you think? Do you think the Grass type needs a buff? Or is it good as is? If you do think it needs a buff, how would you do it? If not, why?

Me personally, I'd take away some weaknesses and resistances, even if they make sense. I'd take away the Ice and Flying weaknesses, as both types are solid offensively and wouldn't suffer too much from dealing neutral damage to Grass. Defensively, I'd remove the resists from Steel, Dragon, and Flying.

Here is the type chart for the Grass type:

 

[Lufenium]

You forget the typing's blanket immunity to powder moves.

I'd lose the Flying resistance to Grass, and give Grass a resistance to Fairy. That should be enough to buff it.

I'd keep the Dragon resistance to Grass as then the type is still resistant to all three starter types.

 

[PurplePopplio]

I'd rather not remove the weakness to Ice. Ice is suffering already as it is and don't need another nerf.

 

[IncineROAR]

I'm quite fond of the grass type as it is. I'm quite fond of a 'mon of mine using flamethrower and instant KO

 

[Bolt Strike]

The only thing I could see is removing Flying's resistance to Grass, but that's about it. Anything else would throw off the balance even more.

 

[winstein]

I find that it is easier to fix the Grass-type on the defensive angle, as opposed to an offensive one. The main reason being that their main advantages are on the defence, namely the resistance to Water and Ground, and recently, immunity to powder moves. Because of this, I think that they could do with fewer weaknesses, namely Flying. I would have preferred to remove the Ice weakness too, to better contend with Water-types which tend to be able to use Ice attacks. The other three weaknesses are OK, due to Fire being part of the elemental triangle, while Bug and Poison needs the offensive advantage.

I feel that the problem with powder move immunity is that it doesn't have enough moves to take advantage of. Certainly, the Sleep ones are useful to avoid, but I think if there is a "burn" Powder move, an offensive Powder move and Powder (Vivillon's signature move) gaining a wider distribution, then the immunity will be very handy to have.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Morningstar]

From a thematic standpoint, Grass's affinities make sense (plants die in ice, Arial being have an advantage, plants burn easily, poison covers environmental problems and bugs tends to be herbivores when they are not sanguivores. While they can overtake the soil, break through rock and absorb water. Plus Steel in addition to being stereotyped as the resilient type is based on something that plant life can't really destroy, overtake, yes, but destroy and Dragon's gimmick is resisting the starter types in that regard.)

The resistances and supper effectiveness grass have are more strategic in practice, weak to several types but resits a few key types. Defensively I think there isn't much they could do except account for Fairy and play on the woodland sprite thing or a fighting resistance (I'll explain later).

Offensively is a bit of a different story. The types main niche is centered on Regen, Sun abuse or spreading status effects with spores. And again, the type it hits super effectively feel more strategic (bar Rock) but I feel there there could be potential for Glass Cannon variants or builds that take a vampyric approach. For example it could get a SE bonus and resistance against Fighting, because wood tends to be harder than flesh and the vines can hindered the movement of those that use their extremities. Interactions with Fairy are also likely needed somehow, because there is a connection as evidenced with the Flogres line, Xerneas and Comfey and because they share a weakness with the exact same rationale (Poison and the pollution connotations), so having Grass be SE on Fairies might make it more useful, since it seems they don't tend to carry Ground, Fire or Poison-type moves [besides Toxic] that would psoe a threat to them ensuring soem safe switch ins)

On the other hand, Grass seems to be like ice in that perhaps the problem lies in the pokemon design. Mega Venusaur is a tank in spite of the typing due to Thick Fat and Tapu Bulu also enjoys play on the OU and VCG formats. Perhaps a pokemon with an emphasis on draining the opponent and being defensive my removing some of its weakness might make it better (like say, having Flash Fire for starters).

The last issue for me is Sun Synergy, much like the affinities, this seems to be dictated by logic rather than balance as the sun gives the Fire-types move a bigger advantage over Grass types while Grass-types in turn get only Solarbeam/blade buffs and Chrolophyll for it. Its an interesting combination, and a counterpart can be found in Rain boosting Thunder's accuracy, but both are cases where one side has to put itself in a corner to get some buffs.

 

[DoctorWhy]

You forget the typing's blanket immunity to powder moves.

I'd lose the Flying resistance to Grass, and give Grass a resistance to Fairy. That should be enough to buff it.

I'd keep the Dragon resistance to Grass as then the type is still resistant to all three starter types.

I agree. Though I would slightly consider removing Grass's weakness to Flying--though this is potentially too extreme. I've also considered the idea of Grass being SE against Electric, but I think the resistance is probably enough. I definitely think Grass should resist Fairy, too.

In summary, I would suggest:

-Give Grass a resistance to Fairy
-Remove Grass's weakness to Flying, but retain Flying's resistance to Grass (or vice versa, as you suggested)
-And this may sound odd, though I believe Grass should lose it's SE advantage against Rock while gaining an SE advantage against Electric.

 

[Lufenium]

I agree. Though I would slightly consider removing Grass's weakness to Flying--though this is potentially too extreme.

I initially thought of removing Grass's weakness to flying as well but I thought it may disfavour Flying types too much as they're only SE against two other types, Bug & Fighting. Although that may not be a too bad of a thing, necessarily.

 

[Envoy]

I initially thought of removing Grass's weakness to flying as well but I thought it may disfavour Flying types too much as they're only SE against two other types, Bug & Fighting. Although that may not be a too bad of a thing, necessarily.

Fighting is a key type and what Flying lacks in SE coverage it more than makes up for in neutral coverage, which is far more than Grass can say.

 

[PurplePopplio]

Why not make Sunny Day for Grass types and a new move, Humidity, where the temperature rises, for Fire types?

 

[Cilantro]

more resistances, like fighting. have you ever punched a tree? it hurts. have you ever tried to punch grass? it doesn't work, the grass just bends.

 

[DoctorWhy]

more resistances, like fighting. have you ever punched a tree? it hurts. have you ever tried to punch grass? it doesn't work, the grass just bends.

I mean, have you ever punched solid ice, steel, and rock? IRL logic doesn't have much of a place in Pokemon types.

 

[Cilantro]

I mean, have you ever punched solid ice, steel, and rock? IRL logic doesn't have much of a place in Pokemon types.

I think those weaknesses refer to martial artists and the breaking of those materials using martial arts

Also...

-Remove Grass's weakness to Flying, but retain Flying's resistance to Grass (or vice versa, as you suggested)
-And this may sound odd, though I believe Grass should lose it's SE advantage against Rock while gaining an SE advantage against Electric.

Grass is SE against rock for (I think?) moss and other plants taking over and breaking through rocks. And can I please have an explanation as to why grass should be SE to electric?

Also birds steal grass and twigs to make nests and eat berries and fruit

 

[DoctorWhy]

I think those weaknesses refer to martial artists and the breaking of those materials using martial arts

And you used a tree as an example. Trees, but more specifically--wood, is also a material broken by martial artists. Wood is actually the most common material broken by martial artists. I actually don't recall ever seeing ice or steel (unless it's a simple bar or thin segment of steel) being broken. It's possible, but the argument you give for those weaknesses being valid is the exact argument I can give for why grass that resistance.

Grass is SE against rock for (I think?) moss and other plants taking over and breaking through rocks.

Yes, I know. But my issue is that Rock, like grass, has a whopping 5 weaknesses. I also believe that Grass's SE advantage against Ground is based, more or less, on the same reasoning. I see no reason to double dip on Grass being SE against both Earth-y types, especially when it leads to a 4x weakness against two common-ish dual types: Rock/Ground (two 4x weaknesses in its case) and Rock/Water. I'd be fine with Grass getting a Rock resistance in exchange, perhaps. EDIT: Yes, please, actually. I love this idea now that I've thought about it more.

And can I please have an explanation as to why grass should be SE to electric?

Mostly balancing. Electric is only weak to Ground, as we all know. Plus, you could think of it as trees breaking power lines. Or how technology/civilization (which runs on electricity) eventually falls to overgrown nature/environment when abandoned. Etc. But just keeping the resistance as it is is probably fine.

 

[Cilantro]

thx for that m8

 

[Envoy]

And you used a tree as an example. Trees, but more specifically--wood, is also a material broken by martial artists. Wood is actually the most common material broken by martial artists. I actually don't recall ever seeing ice or steel (unless it's a simple bar or thin segment of steel) being broken. It's possible, but the argument you give for those weaknesses being valid is the exact argument I can give for why grass that resistance.



Yes, I know. But my issue is that Rock, like grass, has a whopping 5 weaknesses. I also believe that Grass's SE advantage against Ground is based, more or less, on the same reasoning. I see no reason to double dip on Grass being SE against both Earth-y types, especially when it leads to a 4x weakness against two common-ish dual types: Rock/Ground (two 4x weaknesses in its case) and Rock/Water. I'd be fine with Grass getting a Rock resistance in exchange, perhaps.

The reason Grass is strong against Ground is that plants feed off nutrients in the soil.

The difference between Rock and Grass is that, despite having the same amount of weaknesses, Rock is much more offensively viable than Grass. It's strong against Fire, Flying, Bug, and Ice, all of which are potent types in their own right. In that sense, Rock's pros balance out its cons quite well. On the flip side, Grass has too many cons to be able to afford a pro. At best, replacing the Rock strength with an Electric strength would leave it more or less in the same place it is now.

 

[Cilantro]

I think grass should be similar to ghost, in that most should be fast with an arsenal of annoying status moves
think Whimsicott, but more

 

[Morningstar]

Why not make Sunny Day for Grass types and a new move, Humidity, where the temperature rises, for Fire types?

Probably because the sun has a close association with fire.

 

[PurplePopplio]

Probably because the sun has a close association with fire.

It's funny then that the two Pokemon, Solgaleo and Solrock, closely linked to the Sun aren't Fire-type.

Humidity and Sunny Day would give Fire and Grass types their own weather. Because Sunny Day, right now, doesn't really help Grass types much due to so many Fire Blasts on so many different Pokemon.