BDSP Pokémon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl General Discussion

[Esserise]

Right, OR/AS is not Emerald remakes. So of course there will be things in Emerald not in OR/AS.

Yes, but I’m saying that’s because of reasons pertaining to game design choices, not because of some will to make sure that Emerald still feels “unique” by comparison. The Battle Frontier isn’t absent from ORAS because anyone at Game Freak stopped and thought, “But, if we put it in this game, no one will have a reason to play Emerald anymore…”. It’s absent because they felt the work it’d take to include it wouldn’t be worth committing to, based on their expectations of how many players would actually engage with the feature.

 

[Kit Chan]

I hope the Super Contests will retain the dressing up part in some way, that was the part which made Sinnoh's contests more engaging than the Hoenn ones imo.

I don't remember playing the Gen 4 Battle Frontier much. I did play quite a bit of Battle Tower in Pearl, but I got tired of it and never really touched it in any game since. Only battle facility which really kept me hooked was Pokemon Stadium.
A Battle Frontier might interest me if it has online tag battles since I remember having fun teaming up in Battle Tower.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

We had to pause to look at the Town Map. Constantly pausing for a feature that we used to just look down while playing would be a huge downgrade.

To be fair, going from two screens to one screen in this context is a downgrade, so some accommodations need to be made.

Surely they won’t, in Twenty-Twenty-Freaking-One, make them exclusive to players who use Pokémon HOME and can send the trio over from another game, will they?

E3 2018: Legendary Pokemon Mew Is An Exclusive With Poke Ball Plus

Buying the Joy-Con accessory will get you the legendary rare Pokemon, the #151 psychic cat thing, Mew.

www.gamespot.com

I won’t be surprised after this.

Nah. It's to preserve the uniqueness of games like Emerald.

What does Fire Red/Leaf Green have to offer that Let's Go didn't have? Besides Gen 2-3 pokemon, the Sevii islands, for example.

Why does preserving the uniqueness of a game that can no longer earn revenue matter? Specially in terms of economics.

Right, it's for the people that already bought Emerald. To have some value that not everything in it is put in another game.

I find it ironic you mention economics below and then go on to defend something that might potentially reduce current sales for people who already bought all they could of a previous entry and the previous entry can no longer make a positive economic contribution.

Economics

 

[NealIRC]

Again though, there's no sense in retaining the value of some long out of print game.

Of course there is. To make your money seem worth it.

They're not selling it anymore, they can't make any further money on it. In Game Freak's eyes, the value drops to 0 from the time they stop selling copies of the original until they decide to port or remake the game.

Would you say the same for Pokemon cards that are no longer in print?

Which is...?

Okay, take the Pokemon cards for example, should they be out of value if they are no longer made? Lots of things discontinue in history before we were born.

Literally interpreting ORAS as just a RS remake and not an Emerald remake is missing the point, the whole point of having a remake is to recreate the experience of a past, out of print game. Since Emerald is out of print as well as RS, leaving it out leaves ORAS feeling incomplete. Those that played the original are missing part of their past experiences and those that haven't won't get the opportunity to experience those missing parts.

I think you meant to say those playing the original are missing part of the future remake experience?

Well yeah, new games need new features to get people to buy them, that's common sense. Whether or not they're a "waste" is subjective though, and if you enjoyed or will enjoy those features, you'd still want some option to experience them with currently available game.

My post was not about your post, so I see you fell into a loop on argue for the sake of arguing. Emerald from R/S is not the same as OR/AS from R/S. What the hell is the monetary gain from customer's point of view of getting Emerald after R/S for example.

Yes, but I’m saying that’s because of reasons pertaining to game design choices, not because of some will to make sure that Emerald still feels “unique” by comparison. The Battle Frontier isn’t absent from ORAS because anyone at Game Freak stopped and thought, “But, if we put it in this game, no one will have a reason to play Emerald anymore…”. It’s absent because they felt the work it’d take to include it wouldn’t be worth committing to, based on their expectations of how many players would actually engage with the feature.

Your 2 examples don't contradict each other. I think both are true. And possibly others.

Why does preserving the uniqueness of a game that can no longer earn revenue matter? Specially in terms of economics.

So that people who bought Emerald, don't feel it was a waste of money, with the Battle Frontier and all.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Xatu and Claydol did not make sense, imo, and it felt like they were just there to fill up the quota as available Psychic pokemon.

They were both Psychic Pokémon immune to Earthquake, like Lunatone and Solrock. They allowed them to use Earthquake without damaging their partners. In other words, they weren't chosen just to fill up the quota.

And let's not pretend that ORAS not having Emerald Battle Frontier is the only thing people still complain about. People complained for years about no following pokemon, among other things.

Not having following Pokémon, as beloved of a feature as it is, hardly feels to me like a reason enough to make the entire game bad.

Your 2 examples don't contradict each other. I think both are true. And possibly others.

There's an interview that outright confirms why it was excluded: they felt modern players have shorter attention spans and want to move on to another game as soon as they've finished playing one.

 

[Boss1708]

BDSM doesn't necessarily need a Battle Frontier. The Battle Tower can be good enough, as long as they do something interesting with it.

For example, they can include all of the 5 Platinum Frontier Brains, as opponents in the BDSM Battle Tower.

But there are many other things that could be done, this is just one example.

I am moderately optimistic sofar.

 

[Esserise]

Your 2 examples don't contradict each other. I think both are true. And possibly others.

Well, I'm not saying they're contradictory - I'm saying that "keeping Emerald unique" is at best an unintended quasi-benefit of practical decisions that have far more grounding in the actual production of a game.

 

[Almonds]

They were both Psychic Pokémon immune to Earthquake, like Lunatone and Solrock. They allowed them to use Earthquake without damaging their partners. In other words, they weren't chosen just to fill up the quota.

In my opinion, Hoenn also has a Flying-type gym completely immune to Earthquake, so making another "Earthquake-immune" team shouldn't really be the priority here.

At the very least, they should have had Grumpig instead of Xatu. I don't remember if there was a major NPC that ever used Grumpig in Hoenn. Major NPCs like gym leaders should be given pokemon of their generation for showcasing them to players.

 

[Kallyle]

BDSM doesn't necessarily need a Battle Frontier. The Battle Tower can be good enough, as long as they do something interesting with it.

For example, they can include all of the 5 Platinum Frontier Brains, as opponents in the BDSM Battle Tower.

I for one think that giving us all of the Frontier Brains, and possibly the rule sets of their previous facilities (or even outright new ones), in one facility is a fantastic idea. Not only do we get the non-standard battle rules (which is why people liked the Battle Frontier in the first place), but doing it within one facility saves development time in terms of overworld graphics!

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

In my opinion, Hoenn also has a Flying-type gym completely immune to Earthquake, so making another "Earthquake-immune" team shouldn't really be the priority here.

At the very least, they should have had Grumpig instead of Xatu. I don't remember if there was a major NPC that ever used Grumpig in Hoenn. Major NPCs like gym leaders should be given pokemon of their generation for showcasing them to players.

As you too acknowledged, this was a Double Battle Gym. Winona's Gym was immune to Earthquake due to her type speciality. Tate and Liza's team was made that way out of strategy. Xatu was basically a support Pokémon, having Sunny Day to assist with Solrock's Solar Beam and Flamethrower, as well as to weaken the Water attacks the team is otherwise weak against.

 

[Fairy Type Arceus]

Thing is that Emerald is a long obsolete game that's largely inaccessible unless you want to pay a hefty price for a used copy on Ebay. In general the whole point of a remake is to put some of these long gone games back on the market (with modern day improvements), so this marketing strategy kind of defeats the purpose. Maybe if they re-released Emerald on the VC, you could kind of justify leaving them out to sell the VC copy of Emerald, but otherwise they're not really giving you much of a choice on where you can re-experience this kind of content, they're just letting it get buried by the sands of time.

Tbh they are probably saving them for third version remakes. We just got a yellow remake. I bet you Johto is next with a crystal remake, spilt into two between suicune and entei.

 

[nickdt]

Guys, look at this. Tiny Onix is Tiny

 

[Kallyle]

Guys, look at this. Tiny Onix is Tiny

View attachment 149369

As funny as this is, it was probably done in order to be able to reuse the model for having Onix follow you. I wouldn’t be surprised if the other Pokémon got the same overworld treatment.

 

[SlowGinFizzzz]

Feel like sh.. just want her back:

 

[nickdt]

As funny as this is, it was probably done in order to be able to reuse the model for having Onix follow you. I wouldn’t be surprised if the other Pokémon got the same overworld treatment.

Then why didn't they do the same for Lets Go?

 

[Kallyle]

Then why didn't they do the same for Lets Go?

That was Game Freak. BDSP is being developed by ILCA, so how they handle things is going to be different from what we expect. Plus, it works more like HGSS this way.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

Tbh they are probably saving them for third version remakes. We just got a yellow remake. I bet you Johto is next with a crystal remake, spilt into two between suicune and entei.

Would be weird to make two members of a trio the mascots and leave out the third. The Suicune plotline was already integrated into HGSS, too, so if they're saving features for a third version remake, that's a weird move on their part. (Although it'd be even weirder to cut things from remakes with the goal of adding them in third version remakes in the first place, since the gap between FRLG and LGPE is 14 years)

 

[nickdt]

That was Game Freak. BDSP is being developed by ILCA, so how they handle things is going to be different from what we expect. Plus, it works more like HGSS this way.

But co-produced by Masuda.

 

[Jimothy]

Would be weird to make two members of a trio the mascots and leave out the third. The Suicune plotline was already integrated into HGSS, too, so if they're saving features for a third version remake, that's a weird move on their part. (Although it'd be even weirder to cut things from remakes with the goal of adding them in third version remakes in the first place, since the gap between FRLG and LGPE is 14 years)

I mean, it was weird the first time when they made a game for Suicune while ignoring its counterparts, but they still did it.

That said, I'm on the fence about whether the eventual Johto game will be a split Crystal remake-- the logic almost works, except that Crystal's gen 1 counterpart isn't really Yellow, it's Blue. Yellow has no counterpart for other regions.

I do think that Johto is next on the remake/revisit docket, and I half-suspect that it might feature the return of Kris, but whether it's a Let's Go, a Legends, or something new, and whether it could be considered a Crystal remake the way LGPE was a Yellow remake, I'm really not sure.

 

[SeanWheeler]

I for one think that giving us all of the Frontier Brains, and possibly the rule sets of their previous facilities (or even outright new ones), in one facility is a fantastic idea. Not only do we get the non-standard battle rules (which is why people liked the Battle Frontier in the first place), but doing it within one facility saves development time in terms of overworld graphics!

I don't think the rules of the Battle Arcade, Battle Hall and Battle Castle could fit in the Battle Tower with their gimmicks. The Battle Factory's rental Pokémon could work, but Castle Points do not make sense in a facility that doesn't have a medieval castle theme, and with the anti-gambling laws replacing the Game Corner with a fashion store in these remakes, I don't think they would bring back the Battle Roulette Game Board. And the Battle Hall stage would not match the aesthetic of the Battle Tower. Each facility has their own themes and gimmicks tied to those themes so all Battle Frontier facilities merged into the Battle Tower would not work. The only Frontier Brain we'd see is Palmer. And at least seeing the Battle Tower return is a step up from it being replaced with the Battle Maison.