Mafia Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Mafia - Endgame (Looking Stupid Joker!)

[Kaiveran]

So late P2 to early P3. Not so much substantive going on. I will echo FinalArcadia’s thoughts on Day 1s, but experience has taught me the only way out of the game starting drags is through. So the verve shown by both leetic and FA is a positive for both of them.

WRT P3, specifically the beef between leetic and Soul: I will say I’ve correctly read Soulmaster town despite low activity / limited information on him in an offsite game, and his play feels very similar to that case so far. AFAICT he’s not going to respond if you pressure him. He’ll engage with the game in his own way at his own pace. If he never actually picks up over the course of the Day, then I might consider voting him, but for now it’s probably best to look elsewhere.

leetic I’ve played with once before, and his play here is significantly more aggressive than that; but considering that he was a blue in that game (whom I accidentally role-stole for a clean wolf sweep) this could just be natural boldness/impatience with being green, supported by the fact that he’s specifically trying to get everyone into the fold here.

I don’t have meta on anyone here other than the aforementioned two players, nor do I know site culture, and I won’t have time to get into either of those because I’m working this weekend. So stuff like leetic vs. neopest is gonna go completely over my fluffy little head – sorry~!

And then #60 makes me sad – I mean, I probably could have guessed this based on the fact that 9-player games are even being fielded in a single-game queue, but damn. All the sites that do TWG/Mafia even remotely like way I grew up with…will they all be extinct soon?

(Oh, and the post is alright game-wise, I guess. Posts/vote from neopest on P4 calls attention to DW’s hedginess but I find that’s pretty normal for less aggressive town early D1)

Down page 4, responses from DW make me lean town more definitively. The way they handle those last two comments shows an interest in being transparent.

As for #70, I’m kinda split on any meta reads over such timeframes, simply because it can be such a toss-up between a returning player going “I wanna put a new spin on things” vs. “I wanna splash into the nostalgia pool”, y’know? 1 post doesn’t give us much to go off yet either.

(brb bathroom)

 

[DawningWinds]

Then extrapolate based on past experiences with other players. I play with unfamiliar people all the time, it's a skill you have to learn.

Not. Helpful. I've seen a fairly even share of nothing openings from both town and scum, so extrapolating isn't getting me anywhere. I'm sorry, but your just gonna have to deal without me having a read on SM until SM makes a post I can get a read from.

I also think DW and NP are pretty clearly unaligned, DW's shift on NP wouldn't make sense if they were partners, as an immediate townread would make more sense rather than DW immediately townreading neopest despite not really doing much different from before.

The bolded's not really making a ton of sense to me, could you try and clarify?

 

[Kaiveran]

@neopest @Kaiveran Since this is your first game here, it might be useful to know that you can ISO someone by clicking "Who Replied?"

View attachment 153798
You're welcome

Thanks for the tip!

As for your next post...I'm assuming GTH implies I have to take a side? I've already given thoughts on DW, Soul and FA (all town), neopest I'd lean town at this point as well, although that's pretty low certainty...HD's eagerness can be either side, really, but I'd say wolf given they've been oddly absent since the game actually started.

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

Not. Helpful. I've seen a fairly even share of nothing openings from both town and scum, so extrapolating isn't getting me anywhere. I'm sorry, but your just gonna have to deal without me having a read on SM until SM makes a post I can get a read from.

The point of GTHs is that they are very useful when you have many people doing them and players flip later in the game. It forces everyone, even wolves, to make stances on each player, which can be very incovenient for them later on. Also, GTH on Kai now that ey've shown up

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

The bolded's not really making a ton of sense to me, could you try and clarify?

You ignoring NP, then immediately townreading her after, despite her being very well present before you even showed up, seems unaligned to me. There'd be more cooperation if it was w/w.

Kai GTH town.

 

[Kaiveran]

Vote: Reiji

Considering my thoughts on the players present and the general circumstances, I think it's very important to put pressure on 0-posters ATM, so they cannot avoid scrutiny simply by providing no information. A diversity of targets also makes it more difficult for wolves to hide their intentions behind wagon momentum.

p-edit: just a grammatical note, you can inflect ey/em pronouns as if they were singular!

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

Not. Helpful. I've seen a fairly even share of nothing openings from both town and scum, so extrapolating isn't getting me anywhere. I'm sorry, but your just gonna have to deal without me having a read on SM until SM makes a post I can get a read from.

Ya know what? UNVOTE: TheCapsFan VOTE: DawningWinds You want this vote off of you, you're going to have to cooperate.

Vote: Reiji

Considering my thoughts on the players present and the general circumstances, I think it's very important to put pressure on 0-posters ATM, so they cannot avoid scrutiny simply by providing no information. A diversity of targets also makes it more difficult for wolves to hide

When pressure voting people, I prefer to do it on people who can actually respond. Reiji's not here right now, what would you expect your vote to accomplish?

 

[Kaiveran]

Ya know what? UNVOTE: TheCapsFan VOTE: DawningWinds You want this vote off of you, you're going to have to cooperate.


When pressure voting people, I prefer to do it on people who can actually respond. Reiji's not here right now, what would you expect your vote to accomplish?

Oh yeah, you did reference people's activity thingies a few times.

Me, I've never been one to status stalk, even when the tools for such are available. It's against the spirit of the game in my view. There's also still a lot more time in the Day.

On further thought, I also find it pretty suspicious that we have exactly two 0-posters as of now, with two wolves in the game. Being in a 2-person team can be very intimidating to a wolf, because they no longer have access to any of the PR-management strategies that come with normal 3- or 4-wolf teams. You have to take a solid stance on your partner and/or reap the consequences of said stance if they flip/get seered/what have you. Given that HD and Soul have given us at least token posts of appreciation for the game, it's not at all improbable that we have at least one wolf in Caps + Reiji.

(And with that, I think I'll take my leave for now. I'll be able to fit some more playtime in midday tomorrow.)

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

Apparently, @HumanDawn just showed up seemingly to only add reactions to a couple of my posts. Anyway, I should be going to bed now, if you see me posting immediately after this tell me to go to bed

 

[HumanDawn]

HD's eagerness can be either side, really, but I'd say wolf given they've been oddly absent since the game actually started.

hey hey HEY i was ASLEEP when the phase change happened, cut me some slack yo, the sleepless nights where I aggressively f5 the page upon update time come in Day 2/Day 3

ive been going through the game now and i will VOTE: TheCapsFan

i will explain… later… which is now! but basically i have been wanting content from TheCapsFan while i was reading the thread, and lo and behold, leetic! voted TheCapsFan with my same line of thought (which means… leetic! is actually el Townie??!?) and even said he was around and didn’t post!

dun dun duuuun!

also some of you were talking about me voting leetic! ? sorry I don’t remember that, and if I don’t remember it, then it probably wasn’t important (or was it? and that’s what i want you to think uehuehuehuehue)

 

[HumanDawn]

Apparently, @HumanDawn just showed up seemingly to only add reactions to a couple of my posts. Anyway, I should be going to bed now, if you see me posting immediately after this tell me to go to bed

good night, zzz

 

[DawningWinds]

Ya know what? UNVOTE: TheCapsFan VOTE: DawningWinds You want

Fine, vote me. I'm still not gonna taking any stances based on absolutely nothing. Sorry, not. Happening.

The point of GTHs is that they are very useful when you have many people doing them and players flip later in the game. It forces everyone, even wolves, to make stances on each player, which can be very incovenient for them later on. Also, GTH on Kai now that ey've shown up

I didn't mean GTHs aren't useful, I already sort of understood how they could be. But if there's really nothing remotely alignment indicative, for a bunch of players it seems like you're gonna just be saying a random alignment. I will give you my read on Soulmaster when there is something to read Soulmaster based on, and not before. I am not refusing to take a stance on Soulmaster. I am refusing to take a stance on Soulmaster at this present second, because he has contributed nothing of any value thus far, and as far as I can see, he probably will in the near-ish future, so it just makes more sense to wait till that nearish future when he posts.

I'm not gonna GTH Kai or update my HD read yet cause its 03:00, I'll do that in the morning.

You ignoring NP, then immediately townreading her after, despite her being very well present before you even showed up, seems unaligned to me. There'd be more cooperation if it was w/w.

Okay, gotcha.

 

[HumanDawn]

Considering the phase started an hour ago and only you've been posting, nothing at all and won't pay any more attention until morning.

honest, down to earth soulmaster

I got my eye in you... when are you going to give it back to me???

Okay, this is too early to hold any strong weight, but I like the hustle from leetic. He's voted and wanting activity, so it's not hypocritical asking other people, even though early on it is frankly hard to get going IMO. I'd raise an eyebrow if he was pressing Soulmaster and neopest yet hadn't himself voted.

Soulmaster seems nonchalant/natural enough when pressed to post. Not really alignment indicative, but yeah. Can't fault him for waiting until morning; I'd love to find a way to just skip D1 entirely because it - especially early D1 - almost always is the worst phase of the game lol.

VOTE: HumanDawn

If you got Pyra/Mythra like you wanted, you'd be mafia

What a funny post. FinalArcadia claims that she likes the "early" hustle from leetic in voting and wanting activity, and despite admitting the liking's shortcomings in it being early, it is still ultimately a plus. Yet, despite this slightly positive read on leetic!, I get no mention of my early bird post and vote on leetic!, which only lacks questioning compared to leetic!'s, and I get voted. Sure, it's a joke vote, so it's not really serious anyway, but why joke vote somebody who you can credit on the same thing you credited somebody on in just the previous sentence.

Make it make sense.

 

[HumanDawn]

I saw the game started while I was playing Stardew Valley, checked to see if anything interesting happened, concluded no and kept playing.

Level 1 read is that leetic being this eager for the game to get started is rand v

Level 0 read is that FinalArcadia forcing reads on page 3 of a game is rand w

Level -1 read is that I'm a wolf for calling FinalArcadia a wolf when we made the exact same read on leetic (I'll see myself out now)

Vote: FinalArcadia

Oh I get way more invested in games as scum but had the unfortunate rand of a team who gave up immediately. I wasn't exactly lying about that one.

Oh I saw you say that I'm less invested in games as scum. In that case I was lying to seem town because my entire team gave up so I wasn't feeling it. I can get invested or uninvested as either alignment though, it's not really a good way to read me.

Also I want to say the idea of someone voting me because I didn't respond to their singular post in a game thread that had only just started and had only one post in it because I said I'd be less invested in a game as scum in a game where I was high investment as scum is almost too ridiculous to be a wolf.

i like you

you showed leetic!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[HumanDawn]

Read the OP. there is guaranteed to be one and exactly one indie here

Out of everyone who posted, SM put in by far the least effort and his response to me was oddly dismissive.

Soulmaster is like that in general, but for all the years I have been playing with him, I don't think I've seen him be as dismissive? It rubbed me a bit the wrong way - it seemed a tiiiiiny bit more dismissive than usual.

 

[HumanDawn]

All right, I guess things are started up.
I like leetic! trying to get things started up right away and throwing reads out off the bat, this feels like a generally town-ish thing to do. I know if I agree with making reads super strongly for nonposters, but especially with how inactive TWR games tend to be lately I like seeing activity encouraged. Don't know that Caps not posting when not too much has happened is all that indicative of anything coming from him.

I also do agree that the generally sense I get from FA's post feels towny, but from a meta perspective I don't know how it lines up with her scum meta. Not sure what I think of NP or SM.

Like I said FA feels town
Neopest leaning townish now. I like the vote on me, feels townmotivated.
SM I feel like maybe not would've been worth mentioning in my initial post after all and I genuinely can not scrape together any vibes from his two extremely short posts.
HD in my experience is like the king of meaningless pregame nonsense so I honestly have zero inclination to try to come up with a read for him based on that.


This is fair. I definitely should've probably at least tried to comment on some more stuff, even if I didn't have any reads on anyone besides really leetic!.

Yeah it was sort of in response to you, but no I literally said I don't know how it lines up with her scum meta- you said it's within her town meta which I would agree with, but I've literally never played with scum FA so I can't speak for whether it's also in her scum meta. Probably shoulda made that a little more clear.

Look, you can put as many guns to my head as you want, but the fact remains that neither my gut nor my brain are getting anything out of Soulmaster's posts because there's just nothing there. Ask me again when he's even attempted to post something of value.
As for HD, with all his post being pregame, I really don't like trying to read him based on it, as far as I'm concerned he's currently a nonposter, but if I absolutely have to... vaguely sorta kinda townish vibes that are absolutely and completely subject to change when he shows up for the Day.


I don't have time to read that game right now since its 01:25 where I am and I really should be in bed, so I'll just take your word for her having seemed pretty different from this.

That's really player dependent, and since I have never played with Soulmaster, the answer is a resounding I do not fucking know. If I did know which alignment to expect more nothing posts from Soulmaster, I would've said that when you asked for my GTH read on him. I don't get why your so hung up on me having a read on a play who's said essentially nothing five hours into Day One.

Not. Helpful. I've seen a fairly even share of nothing openings from both town and scum, so extrapolating isn't getting me anywhere. I'm sorry, but your just gonna have to deal without me having a read on SM until SM makes a post I can get a read from.


The bolded's not really making a ton of sense to me, could you try and clarify?

Fine, vote me. I'm still not gonna taking any stances based on absolutely nothing. Sorry, not. Happening.


I didn't mean GTHs aren't useful, I already sort of understood how they could be. But if there's really nothing remotely alignment indicative, for a bunch of players it seems like you're gonna just be saying a random alignment. I will give you my read on Soulmaster when there is something to read Soulmaster based on, and not before. I am not refusing to take a stance on Soulmaster. I am refusing to take a stance on Soulmaster at this present second, because he has contributed nothing of any value thus far, and as far as I can see, he probably will in the near-ish future, so it just makes more sense to wait till that nearish future when he posts.

I'm not gonna GTH Kai or update my HD read yet cause its 03:00, I'll do that in the morning.


Okay, gotcha.

I don't hate the defense and arguments in these posts, at least I don't think they come from a scum PoV - you are not obligated to have a read on everyone, but leetic!'s problem with you is valid in that despite all these posts and time you didn't end up voting anyone.

 

[HumanDawn]

So late P2 to early P3. Not so much substantive going on. I will echo FinalArcadia’s thoughts on Day 1s, but experience has taught me the only way out of the game starting drags is through. So the verve shown by both leetic and FA is a positive for both of them.

WRT P3, specifically the beef between leetic and Soul: I will say I’ve correctly read Soulmaster town despite low activity / limited information on him in an offsite game, and his play feels very similar to that case so far. AFAICT he’s not going to respond if you pressure him. He’ll engage with the game in his own way at his own pace. If he never actually picks up over the course of the Day, then I might consider voting him, but for now it’s probably best to look elsewhere.

leetic I’ve played with once before, and his play here is significantly more aggressive than that; but considering that he was a blue in that game (whom I accidentally role-stole for a clean wolf sweep) this could just be natural boldness/impatience with being green, supported by the fact that he’s specifically trying to get everyone into the fold here.

I don’t have meta on anyone here other than the aforementioned two players, nor do I know site culture, and I won’t have time to get into either of those because I’m working this weekend. So stuff like leetic vs. neopest is gonna go completely over my fluffy little head – sorry~!

And then #60 makes me sad – I mean, I probably could have guessed this based on the fact that 9-player games are even being fielded in a single-game queue, but damn. All the sites that do TWG/Mafia even remotely like way I grew up with…will they all be extinct soon?

(Oh, and the post is alright game-wise, I guess. Posts/vote from neopest on P4 calls attention to DW’s hedginess but I find that’s pretty normal for less aggressive town early D1)

Down page 4, responses from DW make me lean town more definitively. The way they handle those last two comments shows an interest in being transparent.

As for #70, I’m kinda split on any meta reads over such timeframes, simply because it can be such a toss-up between a returning player going “I wanna put a new spin on things” vs. “I wanna splash into the nostalgia pool”, y’know? 1 post doesn’t give us much to go off yet either.

(brb bathroom)

Vote: Reiji

Considering my thoughts on the players present and the general circumstances, I think it's very important to put pressure on 0-posters ATM, so they cannot avoid scrutiny simply by providing no information. A diversity of targets also makes it more difficult for wolves to hide their intentions behind wagon momentum.

p-edit: just a grammatical note, you can inflect ey/em pronouns as if they were singular!

Oh yeah, you did reference people's activity thingies a few times.

Me, I've never been one to status stalk, even when the tools for such are available. It's against the spirit of the game in my view. There's also still a lot more time in the Day.

On further thought, I also find it pretty suspicious that we have exactly two 0-posters as of now, with two wolves in the game. Being in a 2-person team can be very intimidating to a wolf, because they no longer have access to any of the PR-management strategies that come with normal 3- or 4-wolf teams. You have to take a solid stance on your partner and/or reap the consequences of said stance if they flip/get seered/what have you. Given that HD and Soul have given us at least token posts of appreciation for the game, it's not at all improbable that we have at least one wolf in Caps + Reiji.

(And with that, I think I'll take my leave for now. I'll be able to fit some more playtime in midday tomorrow.)

I don't feel anything potentially malicious from these posts. I like the game-solving efforts and consideration.

Does anyone here know about Reiji? It feels too easy and premature to even make up a scum team of TheCapsFan / Reiji, even just one, just because both haven't posted yet.

 

[HumanDawn]

WELCOME TO HUMANDAWN'S ALIGNMENT READING AWAAAARDS CEREMONY​

In this segment of the HumanDawn show, he will be handing out Awaaaards to the players he believes are the most likely to be beneficial in ensuring the Town's victory. Those who do not make it need not fret - because if your heart is true, you will eventually make it. Or I end up lynching you! Hahaha!

Here are the results... drum roll...

Town Core:

Spoiler

leetic
neopest
Kaiveran

Not Town Core:

Spoiler

TheCapsFan
Soulmaster
FinalArcadia
Reiji
DawningWinds

That's all for now, folks!

Kindly note that the above Awaaaards can and will be taken away from you and given to somebody else upon the game's development.

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

I feel out of everyone who has posted so far, Soulmaster has presented by far the least reason to read him as town. Even if he acts similarly as town, that's not a playstyle that is difficult to replicate as scum at all. If enough town find each other, then scum will have nowhere to hide.

For a little bit of mechanical discussion, I think the existence of the independent is worth keeping in mind. This is because it means that it is most likely that town can only afford to mislynch one townie, as 2-2-1 would be a mafia victory in most scenarios. A serial killer is unlikely in a setup this small, and since it doesn't say the game is bastard a cult is likely out of the question, so it's most likely that we're dealing with some kind of survivor, lyncher, or jester. Keeping this in mind, we have to be very careful this game.

goes back to sleep

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

Also, there is a 27 in 28 chance that at least one scum has posted by now, so keep that in mind

Having insomnia sucks