Controversial opinions

[Eitarou]

The kiss that was entirely offscreen? The kiss that was mainly one-sided? I've seen plenty of kids media where one kid gets kissed. This show ain't special.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

The kiss that was entirely offscreen? The kiss that was mainly one-sided? I've seen plenty of kids media where one kid gets kissed. This show ain't special.

One-sided? Ash definitely liked that kiss

 

[Hidden Mew]

One-sided? Ash definitely liked that kiss

He may have liked the kiss, but he most likely didn't kiss her back. I'm pretty sure that's why Eitarou called it mostly one-sided.

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

He may have liked the kiss, but he most likely didn't kiss her back. I'm pretty sure that's why Eitarou called it mostly one-sided.

Knowing Ash, he was likely completely taken aback.

 

[FelipePR]

He may have liked the kiss, but he most likely didn't kiss her back. I'm pretty sure that's why Eitarou called it mostly one-sided.

- This is a farfetched assumption. While, apparently, Ash was taken by surprise, there is no evidence that he returned the kiss or not. What we do know is that, despite a little embarrassment, Ash was receptive to the kiss.

The kiss that was entirely offscreen? The kiss that was mainly one-sided? I've seen plenty of kids media where one kid gets kissed. This show ain't special.

- While the kiss itself was offscreen, the entire context surrounding this event was not, which makes the situation quite relevant.

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

I feel like XY was trying to steer in that direction, not dark and mature but definitely more shounen (anime directed at 12~18 y/o’s). I think that is why a lot of people hold it up in high regard. Shipping being the obvious contender, also the kiss. These are things you wouldn’t expect from a kids show. I wouldn’t call it mature but XY was definitely trying to cater to an older audience compared to SM or JN.

And we appreciated it for that. It still, for the most part, stands head and shoulders above SM and JN.

- This is a pretty farfetched assumption. While, apparently, Ash was taken by surprise, there is no evidence that he returned the kiss or not. What we do know is that, despite a little embarrassment, Ash was receptive to the kiss.



- While the kiss itself was offscreen, the entire context surrounding this event was not, which makes the situation quite relevant.

Right, he was definitely receptive to it. I mean, did you see that smile? And the faces of Clemont, Bonnie, Pikachu and Dedenne. That kiss was something special.

 

[Hidden Mew]

- This is a pretty farfetched assumption. While, apparently, Ash was taken by surprise, there is no evidence that he returned the kiss or not. What we do know is that, despite a little embarrassment, Ash was receptive to the kiss.

It doesn't seem like that much of a stretch. Given that he most likely surprised, Ash not kissing her back in that brief moment would make sense. Being receptive to the kiss isn't the same thing as Ash kissing Serena back.

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

It doesn't seem like that much of a stretch. Given that he most likely surprised, Ash not kissing her back in that brief moment would make sense. Being receptive to the kiss isn't the same thing as Ash kissing Serena back.

Right. He was most likely too suprised to even react right away. It even looked like it took him a moment to register what happened.

 

[Alola]

I don't know how others feel, but I just don't see Ash defeating Cynthia. And no, I will not be taking any questions.

Which creates a problem because the writers aren't likely to have him lose to both Cynthia and Leon.

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

I don't know how others feel, but I just don't see Ash defeating Cynthia. And no, I will not be taking any questions.

Which creates a problem because the writers aren't likely to have him lose to both Cynthia and Leon.

In the past, I would've agreed with you. 100%. But! This is Journeys Ash we're talkin' about. Who, while very inconsistently written in this dastardly series, is still probably the best at battling he's ever been. His Gengar and Dragonite's movesets alone prove this. Speaking of Dragonite, it's completely undefeated at the moment, and has already gone toe-toe with a regional champion's ace Pokemon-and won. I could realistically see Dragonite beating half of Cynthia's team by itself, or at the very least two of her Pokemon.

 

[Alola]

In the past, I would've agreed with you. 100%. But! This is Journeys Ash we're talkin' about. Who, while very inconsistently written in this dastardly series, is still probably the best at battling he's ever been.

I don't find this iteration of Ash drastically, let alone at all, superior to his recent instances such as his time in Kalos and Sinnoh. What exactly has he done battle-wise that has surpassed the previous four to five sagas? He doesn't even utilize the effective strategies he came up with in Sinnoh, which at best Journeys may allude to, and creatively improvises in battle as much as he did in other regions (which people complained about in the beginning of Journeys that he wasn't doing enough of).

His Gengar and Dragonite's movesets alone prove this.

And in the same breath, Sirfetch'd and Dracovish undermine that with their movesets. Furthermore, good movesets does not always a powerful Trainer make; furthermore, Dragonite's is a bit questionable at the moment given we don't know what move it forgot for Draco Meteor (if that even was officially Draco Meteor). Secondly, his Sinnoh team as a whole had diverse and potent movesets. And he actually actively worked with all of them at various points in the saga to strengthen them, as well as battled with them often - their strength by the battle with Paul was not only believable but deserved. Here, we're lucky to see anyone who isn't Pikachu or Lucario, just for screentime - and this is the team that will defeat Cynthia? And her Garchomp?

Speaking of Dragonite, it's completely undefeated at the moment, and has already gone toe-toe with a regional champion's ace Pokemon-and won. I could realistically see Dragonite beating half of Cynthia's team by itself, or at the very least two of her Pokemon.

And how many official battles has Dragonite participated in? Two, right? It's the same argument that was had with Goodra before it was brought back for the Pokémon League - while powerful, it's unfair to waive around a winning streak when you've battled fewer times than the amount of fingers on someone's hand; so I consider that a moot point. While there is acknowledgment to be had that Dragonite defeated Haxorus single-handedly, albeit with instrumental emotional support from Iris herself, Iris isn't in Cynthia's league outside of the status they share; that Ash's Dracovish, a Pokémon recently created and never before used in battle, was able to easily best Iris' Dragonite is a testament to that.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I was thinking about the possibility of Ash vs. Cynthia as well. I'd be kind of shocked if they allowed Ash to defeat Cynthia, easily the most popular Champion next to Red himself. Even a tie would be kind of pushing it given how powerful Cynthia has been established. I could just see riots in the streets if he does manage to defeat Cynthia in their first battle. Plenty of people would be happy with that, but I could see a good amount of people calling nonsense on something like that too.

 

[Alola]

I was thinking about the possibility of Ash vs. Cynthia as well. I'd be kind of shocked if they allowed Ash to defeat Cynthia, easily the most popular Champion next to Red himself. Even a tie would be kind of pushing it given how powerful Cynthia has been established. I could just see riots in the streets if he does manage to defeat Cynthia in their first battle. Plenty of people would be happy with that, but I could see a good amount of people calling nonsense on something like that too.

I mean, he would have to run the gamut of his strongest Pokémon - I'm talking Pikachu, Charizard, Greninja (w/ Battle Bond), Sceptile, Dragonite, and Lucario, along with his choice of either Mega Evolution, Dynamax, or a Z-Move. With all of them and good writing...I guess I could maybe see it.

But that very very wishful thinking aside, I fully agree with you - especially given the recent revival of Cynthia admiration among a myriad of fans, given how difficult she is in BDSP even outside of rematches. I would propose he beats Leon (as I personally believe Cynthia is stronger than him) and loses to Cynthia, but that isn't the narrative I think Journeys is trying to go with.

 

[Daren]

At the end of the day how well choreographed Ash is or how powerful his team seems doesn't actually directly affect how well he does; he beat Brandon with only one fully evolved Pokémon, and they were the fall guy of that battle.
Remember Rowlet fell asleep in the middle of a battle but was allowed to become a champion.
Edit: Just to make it official; I think he's going to beat Cynthia.
It'll anger some people but they don't care about that or Ash would have beat Alain.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

I don't find this iteration of Ash drastically, let alone at all, superior to his recent instances such as his time in Kalos and Sinnoh. What exactly has he done battle-wise that has surpassed the previous four to five sagas? He doesn't even utilize the effective strategies he came up with in Sinnoh, which at best Journeys may allude to, and creatively improvises in battle as much as he did in other regions (which people complained about in the beginning of Journeys that he wasn't doing enough of).

And in the same breath, Sirfetch'd and Dracovish undermine that with their movesets. Furthermore, good movesets does not always a powerful Trainer make; furthermore, Dragonite's is a bit questionable at the moment given we don't know what move it forgot for Draco Meteor (if that even was officially Draco Meteor). Secondly, his Sinnoh team as a whole had diverse and potent movesets. And he actually actively worked with all of them at various points in the saga to strengthen them, as well as battled with them often - their strength by the battle with Paul was not only believable but deserved. Here, we're lucky to see anyone who isn't Pikachu or Lucario, just for screentime - and this is the team that will defeat Cynthia? And her Garchomp?

And how many official battles has Dragonite participated in? Two, right? It's the same argument that was had with Goodra before it was brought back for the Pokémon League - while powerful, it's unfair to waive around a winning streak when you've battled fewer times than the amount of fingers on someone's hand; so I consider that a moot point. While there is acknowledgment to be had that Dragonite defeated Haxorus single-handedly, albeit with instrumental emotional support from Iris herself, Iris isn't in Cynthia's league outside of the status they share; that Ash's Dracovish, a Pokémon recently created and never before used in battle, was able to easily best Iris' Dragonite is a testament to that.

Ash vs Iris was BS

 

[Alola]

It'll anger some people but they don't care about that or Ash would have beat Alain.

I'd say they care to some degree, or they wouldn't have let Ash become a regional Champion in the succeeding saga, with less effort on his part, to make up for Kalos.

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

And in the same breath, Sirfetch'd and Dracovish undermine that with their movesets. Furthermore, good movesets does not always a powerful Trainer make; furthermore, Dragonite's is a bit questionable at the moment given we don't know what move it forgot for Draco Meteor (if that even was officially Draco Meteor). Secondly, his Sinnoh team as a whole had diverse and potent movesets. And he actually actively worked with all of them at various points in the saga to strengthen them, as well as battled with them often - their strength by the battle with Paul was not only believable but deserved. Here, we're lucky to see anyone who isn't Pikachu or Lucario, just for screentime - and this is the team that will defeat Cynthia? And her Garchomp?

Ehhhhh.....I would not call his Sinnoh 'mons movesets diverse and potent. Not all of them, anyway. You seem to forget that Buizel forgot Water Pulse but kept Water Gun, a weaker move in every way, and after dropping Water Pulse Ice Punch and maaaybe Aqua Jet are the only moves of Buizel's I would consider good. And let us not forget poor Torterra, burdened with one of the worst movesets I think I've ever seen on a Torterra....ever. Three Grass type moves, only one of which was really good, (Synthesis was....okay I guess,) no coverage to speak of whatsoever, and a useless, crippling move in Rock Climb that never did it any favors after evolving into Torterra. The other's movesets, to be fair, were better. (Gliscor and Infernape's were the best of all.) But Gible was mostly a gag mon and one could argue Infernape stole the show away from everybody else anyway.

There is still time for Dracovish and Sirfetch'd's movesets to improve, you realize. I have a hunch that's going to happen sooner than you might think. And I did say Ash was very inconsistently written in this series, didn't I? Inconsistency usually isn't a good thing. Clearly, there's a lot of stuff going on in the fabled off-screen land in this series, and I'm not a fan of it. If I had to guess, the move Dragonite forgot for Draco Meteor (and yes, that was most likely a genuine Draco Meteor, the way it was first used was a little unorthodox, to be sure, but I'm almost positive it was the real deal,) was Hyper Beam. Given that the only two times it was used it failed, I would say thay would be the one to go. Which would mean that Dragonite's current moveset is Dragon Dance, Dragon Claw, Hurricane, and Draco Meteor. Not too shabby, if you ask me. The first two moves alone make it a force to reckoned with. And you keep talking about all this training Ash did with his Pokemon in DP, and I get it, it was good. However, what about all the training he did with Torterra when it was a Grotle to improve its defense? That seemed to get shelved prettty quickly when Infernape came a-knockin'.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I'm tired of seeing a well-written Ash who we get to see train and improve over the course of the series just come up short in the end. Even though this series has had abysmal writing overall, and I'm not even going to try to pretend that it was good, if Ash can win here, with actual serious stakes and a well-written, serious battle, I'm all for it. Who's to say that Ash's Dragonite isn't every bit as powerful as Cynthia's Garchomp by this point? Just because we didn't see the training on-screen, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Granted, it makes it less believable, I guess, but still.

I'd say they care to some degree, or they wouldn't have let Ash become a regional Champion in the succeeding saga, with less effort on his part, to make up for Kalos.

Which still felt somewhat half-assed and kinda like a pity win compared to Kalos.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I mean, he would have to run the gamut of his strongest Pokémon - I'm talking Pikachu, Charizard, Greninja (w/ Battle Bond), Sceptile, Dragonite, and Lucario, along with his choice of either Mega Evolution, Dynamax, or a Z-Move. With all of them and good writing...I guess I could maybe see it.

But that very very wishful thinking aside, I fully agree with you - especially given the recent revival of Cynthia admiration among a myriad of fans, given how difficult she is in BDSP even outside of rematches. I would propose he beats Leon (as I personally believe Cynthia is stronger than him) and loses to Cynthia, but that isn't the narrative I think Journeys is trying to go with.

Using his reserves would definitely make the victory more believable, but I definitely don't see that happening either. While beating Leon only to lose to Cynthia would probably make more sense, I'm not convinced that he'll beat Leon either. They say that his goal is to battle Leon, not to defeat him. Ash would obviously want to defeat powerful trainer like Leon, but I've always thought that the phrasing of his goal gave them a lot of wiggle room. Ash could still technically reach his goal of battling Leon while still losing. Plus, I honestly don't know if fans would really care about Leon beating Ash compared to the idea of Ash beating Cynthia.

At the end of the day how well choreographed Ash is or how powerful his team seems doesn't directly actually affect how well he does; he beat Brandon with only one fully evolved Pokémon, and they were the fall guy of that battle.
Remember Rowlet fell asleep in the middle of a battle but was allowed to become a champion.
Edit: Just to make it official; I think he's going to beat Cynthia.
It'll anger some people but they don't care about that or Ash would have beat Alain.

A common theory was that they had Ash win the Alola League partly due to the backlash of the Kalos League. That is just a theory and it's just as likely that they wanted to mirror the games with Ash, filling in as the player character, becoming the first Alola Champion. Besides all that, I'm sure that they didn't expect the huge backlash from Ash losing to Alain. Ash losing in every League aside from the Orange Islands had long been established and they already gave Ash multiple other controversial defeats. I doubt that they knew just how bad the backlash would be with Alain winning instead of Ash.

 

[Rainbow-Rain]

Using his reserves would definitely make the victory more believable, but I definitely don't see that happening either. While beating Leon only to lose to Cynthia would probably make more sense, I'm not convinced that he'll beat Leon either. They say that his goal is to battle Leon, not to defeat him. Ash would obviously want to defeat powerful trainer like Leon, but I've always thought that the phrasing of his goal gave them a lot of wiggle room. Ash could still technically reach his goal of battling Leon while still losing. Plus, I honestly don't know if fans would really care about Leon beating Ash compared to the idea of Ash beating Cynthia.

Except that completely falls apart when you remember that Ash already battled Leon in their first meeting.

By that logic, Ash has already accomplished his goal, has he not?

 

[Hidden Mew]

Except that completely falls apart when you remember that Ash already battled Leon in their first meeting.

By that logic, Ash has already accomplished his goal, has he not?

His goal has been to get another chance to battle Leon by going through the PWC though. That's what they've established with every episode recapping Ash and Goh's goals. Getting another chance for a battle against Leon, particularly an official battle, would still be something different from what happened at the start of the series.