Mafia Capture the Shiny Victini Mafia! - Endgame (7/19/18)

[DarthWolf]

There is our player 13, indep for sure, unless indep cc, not sure about the role though.

Wait I was thinking zodiac ... Ignore me

Anyway, my thoughts still stand.

 

[HumanDawn]

Obligatory D1 Miller claim.

@MegaPod I didn't get pinged for some reason.

Wow this game got serious quick. HD's claim can be checked pretty easily if we have an alignment cop out there so I'll trust it for now. Ditto for Pika's miller claim since that's normal course of action for millers.

There is our player 13, indep for sure, unless indep cc, not sure about the role though.

Not sure about last time but yes it worked.

Why have none of you voted yet? It's not that hard Vote: Darthwolf.

 

[Elementar]

Not everyone likes joke voting HD

The two claims seem believeable tbh. Looks like normal HD, and I expect Pika to be truthful in this situation. @HumanDawn, will you be helping scumhunt?

jd's post seems a little off. They suggest a cop check on an independent, which seems like a waste to me. HD is almost certainly an indep, but that won't say whether they're harmful or not.

VOTE: jdthebud

Do you think it's useful if we use a cop check on HD?

 

[HumanDawn]

Not everyone likes joke voting HD

I don't think there's ever a "true" joke vote. It's all an excuse...

@HumanDawn, will you be helping scumhunt?

Doing nothing while a game is on-going is not my thing, so I'll post, but I won't try to be too helpful because I don't want to get Nightkilled. I won't post reads lists. Being dishonest and doing anti-Town things will risk me getting me lynched if they get noticed.

jd's post seems a little off. They suggest a cop check on an independent, which seems like a waste to me. HD is almost certainly an indep, but that won't say whether they're harmful or not.

VOTE: jdthebud

Do you think it's useful if we use a cop check on HD?

I actually thought the same thing.

UNVOTE: Darthwolf
VOTE: Jdthebud

 

[Max1996]

12-hour Votals

1. @Blacephalon - 0
2. @Cilantro - 0
3. @Feenie - 0
4. @DarthWolf - 0
5. @jdthebud - 2 (Elementar, HumanDawn)
6. @Jinjo - 0
7. @Elementar - 0
8. @Pika_pika42 - 0
9. @HumanDawn - 0
10. @Thanos - 0
11. @Doctor Floptopus - 0
12. @Kyriaki - 0
13. @AussieEevee - 0
14. @TheCapsFan - 0

 

[TheCapsFan]

I'm an Independent Survivor and need to make it to Endgame to win.

Why have I claimed? Because there's no way in hell I'm going to make it to Endgame alive. If I'm too quiet, I get suspected to be a PR and maybe get nightkilled, if I'm too loud, same thing. If I'm on the middle ground or I am a little quiet, I might be thought of as Mafia and thus get some votes that may get me lynched. Both teams benefit from my claim in that the Mafia will not waste an NK/RBlock/RCop/etc. on them and neither will Town waste a lynch or PR on me. That said, I know that Indepentent = Serial Killer/Cult but I'm neither of those, and if the fear of me being either of them is fear enough to get me lynched, then so be it, because I seriously doubt I would have been able to win either way like I already explained. It's your call if it nets you a safe lynch this Day Phase.

This claim is 100% believable because Human wouldn't claim this if he really was a SK after what happened in the other game last week.

I agree with the jdthebud votes, but I don't think it's necessary at this point in the game to add my vote there.

 

[Snowy]

Looks like I'm a little late to the party.

Obligatory D1 Miller claim.

You know I don't trust D1 claims, especially claims made for no real reason...

Well that was fast. Unless countered it seems honest.

Reasons why, please.

I'm an Independent Survivor and need to make it to Endgame to win.

Why have I claimed? Because there's no way in hell I'm going to make it to Endgame alive. If I'm too quiet, I get suspected to be a PR and maybe get nightkilled, if I'm too loud, same thing. If I'm on the middle ground or I am a little quiet, I might be thought of as Mafia and thus get some votes that may get me lynched. Both teams benefit from my claim in that the Mafia will not waste an NK/RBlock/RCop/etc. on them and neither will Town waste a lynch or PR on me. That said, I know that Indepentent = Serial Killer/Cult but I'm neither of those, and if the fear of me being either of them is fear enough to get me lynched, then so be it, because I seriously doubt I would have been able to win either way like I already explained. It's your call if it nets you a safe lynch this Day Phase.

We've just been burned two games in a row by fake survivor claims.

Vote: HumanDawn

Wait I was thinking zodiac ... Ignore me

Anyway, my thoughts still stand.

I try to, but you're too loud. Let me sleep.

Why have none of you voted yet? It's not that hard Vote: Darthwolf.

Didn't you just claim survivor and don't care if town votes or not?

Not everyone likes joke voting HD

The two claims seem believeable tbh. Looks like normal HD, and I expect Pika to be truthful in this situation. @HumanDawn, will you be helping scumhunt?

jd's post seems a little off. They suggest a cop check on an independent, which seems like a waste to me. HD is almost certainly an indep, but that won't say whether they're harmful or not.

VOTE: jdthebud

Do you think it's useful if we use a cop check on HD?

Eh... I could go either way on that. If HD is an indep, we'd be wasting our time on a player that doesn't matter... Cop checks on Indeps don't tell us if they're hostile or not.

I actually thought the same thing.

UNVOTE: Darthwolf
VOTE: Jdthebud

... Okay then.

 

[HumanDawn]

We've just been burned two games in a row by fake survivor claims.

Vote: HumanDawn

Nope! My claim is real, I win once only one side (Town or Mafia) fulfills their win condition, meaning I have to be alive in Endgame. You can vote me if you want, I don't really care either way because I doubt I would be able to win the game if I didn't claim Independent.

Didn't you just claim survivor and don't care if town votes or not?

I don't care if Town or Mafia votes me, but I care to not play in a boring way. My activity is in respect to the time the hosts took to develop the game and update it.

 

[HumanDawn]

I agree with the jdthebud votes, but I don't think it's necessary at this point in the game to add my vote there.

Then why not try voting somebody else? Besides, it's just two votes, it's not bad to put a third vote. I don't think jdthebud would be the type to fall into pressure and claim so fast either.

 

[Feenie]

Obligatory D1 Miller claim.

Claiming miller right off the bat is always a towny move but in a role madness, bastard game like this - are you just a miller or are you withholding some other type of ability? I mean, it's okay if you are - I'm not asking you to claim the other ability - but if you're contending you're just a miller that seems really unlikely. Impossible even.

I'm an Independent Survivor and need to make it to Endgame to win.

Willing to go with this for now, however, if we start to see two kills without reasonable explanation then you're on the chopping block buddy.

@jdthebud Why ask the cop to waste a shot like that on an independent? If you thought Human was scum and hatching some elaborate scheme and attempting to disguise himself as an independent to coast along, you think you'd put a vote.

VOTE: jdthebud.

 

[HumanDawn]

Claiming miller right off the bat is always a towny move but in a role madness, bastard game like this - are you just a miller or are you withholding some other type of ability? I mean, it's okay if you are - I'm not asking you to claim the other ability - but if you're contending you're just a miller that seems really unlikely. Impossible even.

Why does that seem so unlikely? A game that just finished was a Bastard game and it still had conventional roles which don't contribute to a Bastard game. That said, we did have a Miller or two recently that had an additional role on them. I think it makes sense that if, say, Pika_Pika was some Town Double Voter Miller, that they would hide it and only say that they're a Miller.

Willing to go with this for now, however, if we start to see two kills without reasonable explanation then you're on the chopping block buddy.

That shouldn't be the case unless a Vigilante/Bomb/Paranoid Gun Owner... shows up. Either way, if 3 Mafia (i'm assuming there's 3 Mafia) are dead and I'm still alive, you know who to go for...

 

[HumanDawn]

Why does that seem so unlikely? A game that just finished was a Bastard game and it still had conventional roles which don't contribute to a Bastard game. That said, we did have a Miller or two recently that had an additional role on them. I think it makes sense that if, say, Pika_Pika was some Town Double Voter Miller, that they would hide it and only say that they're a Miller.

Actually, I don't know why Feenie is prying on this or even bringing it up. If she suspects that they have an additional role, why not let Pika_Pika have no attention brought up to him and use their hidden role to the Town's advantage? By putting attention on a second potential role, the Mafia is now more wary of a potential one and may see him as more of a threat.

 

[Feenie]

Why does that seem so unlikely? A game that just finished was a Bastard game and it still had conventional roles which don't contribute to a Bastard game. That said, we did have a Miller or two recently that had an additional role on them. I think it makes sense that if, say, Pika_Pika was some Town Double Voter Miller, that they would hide it and only say that they're a Miller.

Just a miller though? It seems far-fetched to me. Like you've just suggested, I'd be more willing to trust it if, say, he were something like a double-voter or secret voter with it. It'd amp up the possibility, definitely.

That shouldn't be the case unless a Vigilante/Bomb/Paranoid Gun Owner... shows up. Either way, if 3 Mafia (i'm assuming there's 3 Mafia) are dead and I'm still alive, you know who to go for...

Okay so there are multiple possibilities as to why two deaths could occur during a night - but either way, yes, contending there are three mafia (that does seem likely in a game of this size), I've got my eye on you...

 

[Feenie]

Actually, I don't know why Feenie is prying on this or even bringing it up. If she suspects that they have an additional role, why not let Pika_Pika have no attention brought up to him and use their hidden role to the Town's advantage? By putting attention on a second potential role, the Mafia is now more wary of a potential one and may see him as more of a threat.

Because being only a miller doesn't make sense to me. This is a role madness game, and I just don't see that being likely. I highly doubt my bringing this up has done anything as he could ignore my questioning - it's not going to garner him any votes - but he's already brought 'attention' onto himself, technically, by claiming. Everyone knows that miller is automatically town, and thereby, the most trustworthy role. I don't have some outside knowledge that could prove that I'm right with my suspicion, so either he confirms or denies it and that's that.

 

[HumanDawn]

Because being only a miller doesn't make sense to me. This is a role madness game, and I just don't see that being likely. I highly doubt my bringing this up has done anything as he could ignore my questioning - it's not going to garner him any votes - but he's already brought 'attention' onto himself, technically, by claiming. Everyone knows that miller is automatically town, and thereby, the most trustworthy role. I don't have some outside knowledge that could prove that I'm right with my suspicion, so either he confirms or denies it and that's that.

You don't seem to understand what I mean - I am saying that while you're right in thinking what you're thinking, you don't need to put attention to it because it makes the Mafia think that the Miller is more of a potential threat instead of a confirmed role. You could argue that it's what they're already thinking, but if that then turned out to be the case, by pointing it out, you're giving them validation being someone outside of their alignment thinking the same possible thing. You said it yourself, they're likely telling the truth, so why are you trying to dig out a claim out of what they're saying? I'm not saying you're Mafia for it, but I think it's reckless. You have to be careful enough to not show all your cards to the enemy. You can show them more safely when you feel it's more important to, after all, you did not vote Pika_Pika for not hinting that they have a second role, so you aren't really doing anything with the thought other than telling the Mafia.

 

[HumanDawn]

You said it yourself, they're likely telling the truth, so why are you trying to dig out a claim out of what they're saying?

oh my god what the heck

Claiming miller right off the bat is always a towny move but in a role madness, bastard game like this - are you just a miller or are you withholding some other type of ability? I mean, it's okay if you are - I'm not asking you to claim the other ability - but if you're contending you're just a miller that seems really unlikely. Impossible even.

Still, my point stands that you did not vote them for it. You said that you're not asking for them to claim their other ability if they have it, but saying that they may have it is still putting attention on them for the Mafia to know.

 

[Pika_pika42]

You know I don't trust D1 claims, especially claims made for no real reason...

I didn't claim thinking who would trust me or not. I claimed because I believe claiming early is the optimal play for Miller as it reduces confusion and misunderstandings later on, avoiding a probable mislynch.

My claim was not for no real reason as it was the first post of the day and I was attempting to generate discussion with it. Also, I was bored but that's a personal reason.

Eh... I could go either way on that. If HD is an indep, we'd be wasting our time on a player that doesn't matter... Cop checks on Indeps don't tell us if they're hostile or not.

Why did you write this? Looks like exact mirroring of Elementar's post which you quoted above this.

Claiming miller right off the bat is always a towny move but in a role madness, bastard game like this - are you just a miller or are you withholding some other type of ability? I mean, it's okay if you are - I'm not asking you to claim the other ability - but if you're contending you're just a miller that seems really unlikely. Impossible even.

Claiming Miller early is a towny move, claiming your entire role isn't. Why should we provide any extra information to the Mafia?

I really don't understand your post.
First you say claiming Miller early is a Towny move. Agreed.
Then you ask if there's anything more to my role/ability but ask me not to claim such ability. Ending your post by saying that a plain Miller is not likely to be in this role-madness bastard game.

I can see only 2 scenarios.
1) You believe my Miller claim but want to know whether there's anything more to my role.
But why would you be so curious about it?

2) You don't believe my Miller claim or think it's fake but don't explicitly say so.

I don't really understand your motive behind that post and I think you deserve a vote for that.

Vote: Feenie

 

[Feenie]

You don't seem to understand what I mean - I am saying that while you're right in thinking what you're thinking, you don't need to put attention to it because it makes the Mafia think that the Miller is more of a potential threat instead of a confirmed role. You could argue that it's what they're already thinking, but if that then turned out to be the case, by pointing it out, you're giving them validation being someone outside of their alignment thinking the same possible thing. You said it yourself, they're likely telling the truth, so why are you trying to dig out a claim out of what they're saying? I'm not saying you're Mafia for it, but I think it's reckless. You have to be careful enough to not show all your cards to the enemy. You can show them more safely when you feel it's more important to, after all, you did not vote Pika_Pika for not hinting that they have a second role, so you aren't really doing anything with the thought other than telling the Mafia.

Well since you put it that way, it does sound really impulsive. Dropping the subject would probably be a good idea, but I'm glad you at least see what I was saying because it did make sense in my head (obviously otherwise I wouldn't have been arguing it). I don't feel strongly enough about it to vote Pika_pika, no. It was a thought I had and questioning seemed like the right thing to do.

 

[Feenie]

I can see only 2 scenarios.
1) You believe my Miller claim but want to know whether there's anything more to my role.
But why would you be so curious about it?

2) You don't believe my Miller claim or think it's fake but don't explicitly say so.

I don't really understand your motive behind that post and I think you deserve a vote for that.

Vote: Feenie

I was genuinely curious and that's really all I can say. I never said I didn't believe your miller claim - in fact, I do believe it - I just said I thought it was unlikely to be only a miller. I don't think I'm wrong in thinking so. This is role madness and bastard. I know I sound like a broken record.

 

[Pika_pika42]

I was genuinely curious and that's really all I can say. I never said I didn't believe your miller claim - in fact, I do believe it - I just said I thought it was unlikely to be only a miller. I don't think I'm wrong in thinking so. This is role madness and bastard. I know I sound like a broken record.

Ok so the 1st scenario where you believe my claim but are curious to know if there's any additional role/ability with it.

However, I don't understand the reason for your curiosity. Also, the way you have framed your sentence looks more like a question than an expression of curiosity.

Personally, it looks like a mafia member sneakily trying to pull out information.

Because being only a miller doesn't make sense to me. This is a role madness game, and I just don't see that being likely. I highly doubt my bringing this up has done anything as he could ignore my questioning - it's not going to garner him any votes - but he's already brought 'attention' onto himself, technically, by claiming. Everyone knows that miller is automatically town, and thereby, the most trustworthy role. I don't have some outside knowledge that could prove that I'm right with my suspicion, so either he confirms or denies it and that's that.

This looks like setting up a trap. If you wanted me to ignore your question, you wouldn't have asked it in the first place.
Whereas confirming or denying would provide more information to the Mafia which I don't wish to give.