Mafia Capture the Shiny Victini Mafia! - Endgame (7/19/18)

[HumanDawn]

Re: Feenie, I think she only did something a bit reckless. Mafia would be more interested in digging up info about other roles instead of just one player. A Town player would be more interested in digging up what they can, in this case, the Miller claim to see if it is legit or not.

Re: AussieEevee is comimg off as his usual self, but there is more insistence on the Miller claim potentially being fake. I'm almost sure he has played games where the Miller claimed D1 and he wasn't that against it. Not sure what to make of him.

However, I think it's likely there is a serial killer in this game, so I'm not trusting HD just yet.

... Why?

 

[HumanDawn]

If HD turns out to be a cultist, we'll be able to have a close look at those that defended him. Cultists are useful to scum, as they eliminate town but can't hurt mafia.

Cultists start alone, not with a team. I was once a Cultist and had some members, but that was in a very different game with multiple factions. I think I might have rather Cult people to join my side to support me rather than say I'm am Independent, risk getting one of the Cult lymched later and have everyone lose by voting me or Mafia Nking me.

 

[Pika_pika42]

You don't think that would have been the definition of sneaky? I feel that would have been a lot more sneaky rather than me outright asking you - a question that could've been ignored. The only reason I asked you was because, and still is because, I don't see a straight-up plain miller existing in a game like this. It's just not possible in my eyes, and I think most of us would agree. I don't think my saying so is out of line, and I don't think my bringing attention to it is anything wild. The only reason I'm still bringing it up - because I'd wanted to drop the subject as mentioned with Human before - is to clarify this with you. Also to clarify; I do believe the claim.

Expressing your curiosity wouldn't be sneaky for me. Asking a question and then expecting it to be ignored is. I know you believe my claim yet you want to know more, that too without it looking like you're trying to gather information.
Also, it looks like you're backtracking now and want to end that discussion by calling it your reckless decision as you are being pressured for it now.

I'm not saying you shouldn't vote me if you have a liable reason for doing so. I see no reason for a vote to be placed on me, though.

I think I have a viable reason to vote for you. Your motive behind questioning me is unclear and your appeal to ignore the question and leave the topic looks like backtracking due to pressure.

Two claims already?

Vote: PikaPika42

50% chance of Mafia claiming as Miller

Where are you getting these statistics from? I don't like this post. (for those who are interested assuming there's 3 Mafia it's actually a 21.4% chance that he is Mafia claiming as Miller)

I'd say more of a 70% chance.

You'll teach me some Math maybe.

You could also be doing it to avoid a cop check if you're mafia. There is no way to know, as both come up scum.

So you mean instead of waiting for the cop to check me, I came up and said you're going to get a scum result so don't bother checking me. What about the risk of getting CCd?

And I have objected to Day 1 claims in every single game, as they are not towny at all.

Still suspicious. All day 1 claims are.

I know your views on D1 claims. But there's a big difference between not believing those claims and finding them suspicious. While I can understand being wary about the claims until proven, I don't see any reason being so suspicious about them.

The returned cop check wouldn't be, no. PP42 screaming "Hey, I'm town! Look how towny I am!" is.

Anyway by claiming Miller, all I want is to warn the Cop not to waste a check on me. I don't expect to be everyone's top Town read or for people to trust me just for my claim.

Did you even read my post? I never screamed "I'm Town" just stated "I'm Miller".

A joke vote could have gotten discussion going, and would have held the same amount of weight as a miller claim.

Joke votes are common in all games but all they seem to do is waste a major part of the day, mostly leading to no Lynch. A joke vote only leads to serious discussion when one of the players takes it upon them to begin serious discussion. In this game, however, we started having serious discussion quite early.

Because we have ways to figuring out if PP42 is telling the truth. Only the mafia have a way of telling if HD is a hostile ITP or a neutral one.

How? I don't understand this.

Voting HD now will not help us in any way. It's not proven that they are hostile. Lynching them won't give us any extra information. They are helping us in scum hunting at least to some extent. Also, as others said, we can lynch them later if and when we get any evidence they are going against Town.

That's literally impossible. Been burned too many times by trust.

Says the one who keeps burning things down.

 

[Elementar]

By claiming miller.

Claiming miller is very different to saying "I'm really towny, look at me."

If I claimed Miller on day 1, I'd expect you to lynch me immediately. There would be no reason not to.

1) A reason not to would be that you're actually Miller...
2) It's still not what I'm asking. I'm asking what would you do if you were miller? When would you claim? Late game, after a cop check? In both cases, it looks far scummier than claiming early. Wouldn't you agree?

You figure it out.

I know full well, but you were the one who said we'd find out tonight. I want to know why you think we'd find out tonight.

You'd be confirmed town because you didn't have a counter claim? *notes it down to try it next time I'm scum*

Good luck playing a game where there's no cop. Seriously, even if you are jester I just want to get rid of it.

So?

So why isn't Pika more likely town? Why do you have hesitance on this claim when almost every Day 1 miller claim you've ever seen in a game has been correct? Why do you keep this hesitance?

Because there isn't anything to talk about. You say it's CWAC. I say it's not. There is nothing more to talk about.

Okay... I won't pursue here.

If you say so.

So what happens when there are no independents in the game and we have to lynch someone? If we don't know they're mafia, what do we do? Hold back because they could be town?

If HD turns out to be a cultist, we'll be able to have a close look at those that defended him. Cultists are useful to scum, as they eliminate town but can't hurt mafia.

As HD said, cult leaders start alone. So what else would be able to determine from HD's death?

I'm not, but it's better odds than any other lynch at the moment.

If you think Pika as a 70% chance of being mafia, that's more than the possibility of HD being a threatening independent (66%).

I'm not throwing shade at PP42. All I'm saying is that they made a very suspicious move by claiming D1.

It's throwing shade because you are saying they're suspicious and mafia, but not voting for them and voting for someone who you don't think is mafia. You're actively not scumhunting.

I also like the part of my post you didn't refer to. Are you sure jokevotes would still have the same effect? "P

Cultists start alone, not with a team. I was once a Cultist and had some members, but that was in a very different game with multiple factions. I think I might have rather Cult people to join my side to support me rather than say I'm am Independent, risk getting one of the Cult lymched later and have everyone lose by voting me or Mafia Nking me.

Yeah, the cult had a town wincon in that game.

 

[jdthebud]

... Why?

The stated setup (role madness, bastard) combined with my role makes me think there is one, though it's mostly a gut feeling than anything super concrete. Anyway I'm not focused on that right now, finding mafia comes first since SKs usually have a difficult wincon.

 

[Snowy]

You'll teach me some Math maybe.

Two plus two equals seven. One plus one equals a window.

Did you even read my post? I never screamed "I'm Town" just stated "I'm Miller".

Exactly.

Says the one who keeps burning things down.

... Touche.

Claiming miller is very different to saying "I'm really towny, look at me."

Reread my post.

1) A reason not to would be that you're actually Miller...
2) It's still not what I'm asking. I'm asking what would you do if you were miller? When would you claim? Late game, after a cop check? In both cases, it looks far scummier than claiming early. Wouldn't you agree?

I will not do a day 1 claim, ever. That's just asking to be lynched.

I know full well, but you were the one who said we'd find out tonight. I want to know why you think we'd find out tonight.

Because the chances of a tracker being in the game are probably at least 60% or more. If PP42 is caught visiting another player, chances are high they're not miller.

So why isn't Pika more likely town? Why do you have hesitance on this claim when almost every Day 1 miller claim you've ever seen in a game has been correct? Why do you keep this hesitance?

It's a day 1 claim.

But have it your way.

Unvote: Humandawn

 

[Elementar]

I will not do a day 1 claim, ever. That's just asking to be lynched.

Again, that's not what I'm asking. I know you're not going to claim Day 1. I'm asking when you would. Would you do it Day 4, after someone has cop checked you, etc. I'm also asking you if you think claiming after you've been cop checked is scummier than claiming Day 1. I'm not asking whether you would claim Day 1.

Because the chances of a tracker being in the game are probably at least 60% or more. If PP42 is caught visiting another player, chances are high they're not miller.

I generally find watcher to be more common. And there are millers with additional roles. There was a debate about that before.

It's a day 1 claim.

I know... But since most Day 1 miller claims turn out to be true, why are you hesitant?

But have it your way.

Unvote: Humandawn

You can vote for whoever you like, but I'm just confused by your logic. With everything you've said, I would've thought Pika would be your lynch choice. It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[HumanDawn]

The stated setup (role madness, bastard) combined with my role makes me think there is one, though it's mostly a gut feeling than anything super concrete. Anyway I'm not focused on that right now, finding mafia comes first since SKs usually have a difficult wincon.

I don't know what your role is, so I can't say whether or not you may be mistaken in your thinking based on it, but fair enough. Rereading your first post I get what you meant.

Unvote: jdthebud

I checked the player list and noticed that Jinjo has not posted at all. Considering how chatty she usually is I am concerned she hasn't posted with half the Day Phase over. Maybe she finally hit a Mafia role and doesn't know how to blend in yet? I kinda doubt she's some information role because when she was one before, she still posted.

 

[HumanDawn]

Vote: Jinjo

 

[Doctor Floptopus]

Wassup. Internet is patchy here.
I'm on the fence about HD's claim, so I'll leave it for now.
I'm willing to trust a Miller claim for the time being.
AE doesn't scream voteworthy to me.
I have no vote to make at present.
Hope y'all are enjoying the heatwaves more than I am

 

[Snowy]

Again, that's not what I'm asking. I know you're not going to claim Day 1. I'm asking when you would. Would you do it Day 4, after someone has cop checked you, etc. I'm also asking you if you think claiming after you've been cop checked is scummier than claiming Day 1. I'm not asking whether you would claim Day 1.

Claiming after being cop checked would be pretty pointless, but I would hope that no one would lynch someone based on a cop check alone. I don't trust cop checks explicitly. You know that.

A cop check + Miller claim + At least an attempt at towny behaviour should tell town if I'm lynch worthy, not just a cop check on its own.

I generally find watcher to be more common. And there are millers with additional roles. There was a debate about that before.

Watcher is also useful here. More so, actually.

I know... But since most Day 1 miller claims turn out to be true, why are you hesitant?

You keep using that word... I'm not sure you're using it in the correct context.

You can vote for whoever you like, but I'm just confused by your logic. With everything you've said, I would've thought Pika would be your lynch choice. It just doesn't make sense to me.

As I said before, I'd rather gather information on PP42 before we do anything about them. Via roles, and via their actions in game. HD seemed like a safer bet to me, because town loses nothing if HD is telling the truth, and if HD is lying, town saves themselves from a hostile ITP.

Hope y'all are enjoying the heatwaves more than I am

If you have some spare heat, please send it this way. It's only getting up to 21c and is [censored] freezing!

 

[Elementar]

Claiming after being cop checked would be pretty pointless, but I would hope that no one would lynch someone based on a cop check alone. I don't trust cop checks explicitly. You know that.

A cop check + Miller claim + At least an attempt at towny behaviour should tell town if I'm lynch worthy, not just a cop check on its own.

So basically you don't trust cops, and you'd let cops waste a shot on you for you to be lynched anyway? So if an uncc'd cop checked a player to be mafia, and the Godfather is dead, you wouldn't vote for them?

You keep using that word... I'm not sure you're using it in the correct context.

Okay... Why do you insist Pika is 70% scum if history has told you otherwise?

As I said before, I'd rather gather information on PP42 before we do anything about them. Via roles, and via their actions in game. HD seemed like a safer bet to me, because town loses nothing if HD is telling the truth, and if HD is lying, town saves themselves from a hostile ITP.

I'd personally let HD have a chance at winning if we can coexist.

 

[Snowy]

So basically you don't trust cops, and you'd let cops waste a shot on you for you to be lynched anyway? So if an uncc'd cop checked a player to be mafia, and the Godfather is dead, you wouldn't vote for them?

Depends on other factors. Why? Do you place all your faith in roles?

Okay... Why do you insist Pika is 70% scum if history has told you otherwise?

I only said it once, and history has told me to never take claims at face value. Especially if given over freely.

I'd personally let HD have a chance at winning if we can coexist.

Even if there is a chance HD is a serial killer or cultist?

 

[TheCapsFan]

[UNVOTE]: AussieEevee

Eevee really seems like someone who wants to be lynched. I don't want to give him what he wants. As for right now I'm just going to ignore him, I suggest the rest of you do the same.

Wassup. Internet is patchy here.
I'm on the fence about HD's claim, so I'll leave it for now.
I'm willing to trust a Miller claim for the time being.
AE doesn't scream voteworthy to me.
I have no vote to make at present.
Hope y'all are enjoying the heatwaves more than I am

This on the other hand is not a very good intro post. There's been plenty of interactions between a lot of players over the past 6 pages. I get your internet problem, but it kinda seems like you want to sneak by without placing a vote.

 

[Snowy]

Eevee really seems like someone who wants to be lynched. I don't want to give him what he wants. As for right now I'm just going to ignore him, I suggest the rest of you do the same.

Yes, because having to defend myself from non-sense attacks means I "just want to be lynched".

I said my piece, I'm done. Please find someone else to go after.

 

[HumanDawn]

Please find someone else to go after.

Do you have someone else to go after?

 

[Max1996]

36 hour Votals

1. @Blacephalon - 0
2. @Cilantro - 0
3. @Feenie - 1 (Pika_pika42)
4. @DarthWolf - 0
5. @jdthebud - 1 (Feenie)
6. @Jinjo - 1 (HumanDawn)
7. @Elementar - 0
8. @Pika_pika42 - 1 (Kyriaki)
9. @HumanDawn - 0
10. @Thanos - 0
11. @Doctor Floptopus - 0
12. @Kyriaki - 0
13. @AussieEevee - 2 (jdthebud, Elementar)
14. @TheCapsFan - 0

 

[jdthebud]

@Doctor Floptopus Why don't you have a vote?

@TheCapsFan Why should I ignore AE? I think he's scum, not a Jester.

 

[Feenie]

UNVOTE: jdthebud
VOTE: @Jinjo

As Human pointed out, it is awfully unusual for Jinjo not to come in and offer anything to the discussion. Consider this a pressure vote. I'm interested in what she's got to say - the vote is liable to stay or not. As far as Eevee goes, to be honest, he's playing a lot like his normal town self, but he's also acting off in a minor way that makes him seem like a jester, so... the question becomes - is it possible for two ITPs in this game? I'm asking this because I don't have a clue.

I will not do a day 1 claim, ever. That's just asking to be lynched.

Did you mean lynched or NK'd?

 

[Feenie]

Yes, because having to defend myself from non-sense attacks means I "just want to be lynched".

I said my piece, I'm done. Please find someone else to go after.

Well, this reads like something an ITP would post (if not scum, but I'm not seeing that at the moment) - more specifically a jester - upon second inspection. If you were town, wouldn't you be suggesting a person of interest rather than just saying 'everyone else, go find someone more suspicious than me'? You're under scrutiny, so it's really up to you to point the finger elsewhere. That isn't active scum-hunting you're promoting.