Controversial opinions

[R1ke]

Well, charging turns in the anime have always been weird because the turn-based battles just don't get translated that well in the anime. They wouldn't be that dynamic if they were 1:1 with the games imo.

But seriously: this is yet another example of Ash's battling in this series being weird. Bea immediately noticied Ash was gonna tell Pikachu to do the ''relax and set yourself free'' strategy yet again against Grapploct and she just as immediately shut that shit down by telling it to cave Pikachu's snout in with Close Combat.

Yet Ash let Sirfetch'd get taken down by Sky Attack even tho he was fully aware it had that move, but didn't bother coming up with an strategy to stop it.

Yeah that’s fair. Ash had dodgy plays here but I gotta rewatch it before I can say for sure. Same thing with the rest of the series.

Despite all I’ve said I don’t dislike this fight. Tbh it’s similar to Ash vs Alain for me, in that I enjoyed watching it but didn’t like some of the decisions made. It had a great climax but the road there was shoddy. Compared to Volkner it had higher highs but lower lows. For now Ash vs Volkner still remains the best battle in the series imo. I’m glad they gave Lucario his battle to shine, because even he needed that right now. But not much else. Just putting my faith in the next one to shelf these two for now and gmax Gengar is a good sign.

Speaking of which, I’m actually curious as to who Ash’s next opponent is. They keep teasing master class trainers but he can’t battle them yet. If he’s using Gigantamax, then it needs to be set in galar. So another Galar character? They also like matching types. Allister maybe?

 

[Alola]

Now Sirfetchd

• Sent against Machamp, whom Ash was initially struggling with but had just got the upper hand against
• Only got one fury cutter off, whilst Lucario which was probably less than Lucario’s reversal anyway
• Lost to Hawlucha (again) but Ash already battled it and knew most its moves (like sky attack), so he didn’t learn anything new after
• Hawlucha had much longer and better battles against Pikachu and Lucario so Sirfetch’d wasn’t even its main opponent, then Lucario did most the heavy lifting against Machamp so his contribution there was nonexistent
• To add insult to injury, he was the only pokemon that didn’t battle in part one either and his brutal swing strategy didn’t do anything (for some reason)

So he was actually wasted, Ash probably would’ve won without him. I’m actually baffled that Tomioka wrote this.

And speaking of the bird, can we please for the love of Arceus fix up its moveset? How many episodes in and it still has no Fighting-type moves or Leaf Blade (with its leek stalk sword) for that matter. That final Night Slash Vs. Sky Attack even looked and sounded poised to develop into a Meteor Assault, yet didn't.

Journeys is the most frustrated I have been with Ash's team; given Unova and Alola, that's saying something.

 

[R1ke]

And speaking of the bird, can we please for the love of Arceus fix up its moveset? How many episodes in and it still has no Fighting-type moves or Leaf Blade (with its leek stalk sword) for that matter. That final Night Slash Vs. Sky Attack even looked and sounded poised to develop into a Meteor Assault, yet didn't.

Journeys is the most frustrated I have been with Ash's team; given Unova and Alola, that's saying something.

I like how the one new move it learned wasn’t even used lmao

At least they fixed Lucario’s

 

[-PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Honestly I think comparing trainers from separate series' is difficult because usually the only real comparison is Ash, and his skills jump up and down randomly.
DP had him coming up with stuff like Counter Shield but it didn't actually result in concrete improvements to his record (in fact DP had his lowest W/L rate up to that point) and after AG he stopped really advancing his career as a trainer until Sun/Moon.
So that's why even though the intuitive idea is that, for instance, Bea should be one of Ash's strongest rivals I don't think you can really say it conclusively.

Edit: I think I have a good comparison; he got 1 spot higher in the Sinnoh league than Hoenn. However, there's good evidence he would have won Hoenn if he used his reserves and would have won Sinnoh if Tobias hadn't entered. In Hoenn he was handicapping himself to a massive extent and in Sinnoh (where he used reserves) his ranking was going to basically come down to when he battled Tobias because absolutely nobody stood a chance against Tobias.

This is who he should've used,

Hoenn League
-Charizard
-Snorlax
-Bulbasaur
-Glalie
-Swellow
-Kingler
-Squirtle
-Pikachu
-Grovyle
-Torkoal



Unova League
-Charizard
-Sceptile
-Pikachu
-Krookodile
-Heracross
-Gible
-Noctowl
-Staraptor
-Corphish
-Pignite
-Palpitoad
-Leavanny

---------------------------------------------------------------------
BONUS :

Kalos League
-Greninja
-Charizard
-Infernape
-Sceptile
-Pikachu
-Snorlax
-Bulbasaur
-Gliscor
-Talonflame
-Hawlucha

It appears that Ash is incapable of training new pokemon and old pokemon at the same time.He had both his old and new pokemon in Johto but he wasn't really training them like he was later on and his Johto team was weak which was why he heavily relied on his reserves at the Johto League.

In Unova he had more than 6 pokemon and was incapable of giving them equal amount of focus,his Pikachu was his best pokemon for most of BW up until Krookodile appeared.During the Battle Frontier Ash was consistently rotating his pokemon and using reserves.

He only wins the Alola League due to the lack of competition,most of the people that were in that League were scrubs that had little to no experience battling,they didn't have to compete in gyms and earn 8 badges.

The Sinnoh League was when Ash should've won,most of the trainers were competent,Ash had a good Sinnoh team and he used reserves at the league.Ash vs Paul should've been in the finals because before Alain appeared Paul was Ash's strongest rival.He was a tougher challenge than both Tyson and Harrison which was why the writers had to cheat and use Tobias to keep Ash from winning because there was no other way for Ash to lose.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

This is who he should've used,

Hoenn League
-Charizard
-Snorlax
-Bulbasaur
-Glalie
-Swellow
-Kingler
-Squirtle
-Pikachu
-Grovyle
-Torkoal



Unova League
-Charizard
-Sceptile
-Pikachu
-Krookodile
-Heracross
-Gible
-Noctowl
-Staraptor
-Corphish
-Pignite
-Palpitoad
-Leavanny

---------------------------------------------------------------------
BONUS :

Kalos League
-Greninja
-Charizard
-Infernape
-Sceptile
-Pikachu
-Snorlax
-Bulbasaur
-Gliscor
-Talonflame
-Hawlucha

It appears that Ash is incapable of training new pokemon and old pokemon at the same time.He had both his old and new pokemon in Johto but he wasn't really training them like he was later on and his Johto team was weak which was why he heavily relied on his reserves at the Johto League.

In Unova he had more than 6 pokemon and was incapable of giving them equal amount of focus,his Pikachu was his best pokemon for most of BW up until Krookodile appeared.During the Battle Frontier Ash was consistently rotating his pokemon and using reserves.

He only wins the Alola League due to the lack of competition,most of the people that were in that League were scrubs that had little to no experience battling,they didn't have to compete in gyms and earn 8 badges.

The Sinnoh League was when Ash should've won,most of the trainers were competent,Ash had a good Sinnoh team and he used reserves at the league.Ash vs Paul should've been in the finals because before Alain appeared Paul was Ash's strongest rival.He was a tougher challenge than both Tyson and Harrison which was why the writers had to cheat and use Tobias to keep Ash from winning because there was no other way for Ash to lose.

Hard disagree for all of your compositions.
Charizard and Bulbasaur already have enough spotlight so let’s not let them outshine the Pokémon who get limited screentime.

 

[Enzo]

I frankly don't think that, in over 24 years, this anime has ever managed to make a running gag right.

I feel like one of my personal biggest pet peeves with Pokéani is that the writers just overuse gags too much. I t feels like they are almost incapable of making a joke just once: they have to turn it an usual thing and it gets on my nerves so much because they don't know how to behave and they always run it into the ground. Like, did anybody actually found Brock falling in love with every single woman he met in the span of 13 years (!) funny? Like, deadass? Or the TRio getting blasted away in almost every single ep they show up?? Or even other smaller gags?

To help make a point, I will use one of my favorite shows, Miraculous, as an example: One of, if not, the most prominent running gag consists of Ladybug hitting Chat Noir's head with her yo-yo, be it in accident or on purpose. So you might ask: ''Well, what makes this gag different from Pokémon's??'' and it's pretty simple:

A) It's not overdone, since they do it very sparingly (I'm pretty sure they only did this in like, 10-12 eps max of a show that just celebrated it's 100th ep in the beginning of this month), so it's not like they are squeezing it dry and B) It happens either by accident or when he tells an unfunny joke or to prove a point, but, since we know their relationship and how much they care about each other, adding in the fact she never hits him strongly enough to injury him, she doesn't comes out looking like a jerk, and it actually comes off as cute in a specific "friendly/couple bickering" way.

(To add on my ''b'' point: unlike in BW, where they made Tepig's story explicity involving him having trauma of people and Pokémon stealing his food and his own introducing ep featured of the most brutal and gut-wrenching scenes of the history of the anime in which he was literally left to die by starvation... and then they decided that making Oshawott stealing his food was a cutesy gag and not widly wrong.)

So yeah, for a TL;DR: this anime is too gag-heavy for it's own good and has never learned to make a running gag right.

 

[Jewel the Quaxly]

Actually, I think a close instance of them doing a gag properly is Pikachu's shtick of accidentally shocking people. They're unfortunately starting to run it to the ground, but before SM, they used to use this pretty creatively and the comedic timing always seemed to work in my opinion.

Pikachu destroying Misty's bike, accidentally shocking the gang in the rain, shocking Ash and Squirtle before getting yelled at by both of them, destroying May's bike, the unique shocking of the lemon siblings, and when he shocked Meowth in that forest episode during XY: these are just a few examples of why I think the gag actually worked.

This is largely in part because of how creatively its used. Aside from being used to break tension, like with the charmander episode, it's also been used to establish character relationships or dynamics: like how the lemon siblings reacted differently to Pikachu shocking them. Note how Bonnie sits up immediately and is actually gleeful over the matter while Clemont getting shocked was in the background and had to actually be comforted by Pikachu himself-you can draw parallels in their personalities just from that alone. It's even been used for development and like in the Crasher Wake gym battle in DP. Not to mention the fact that the characters are actually aware of how repetitive it is, in a way that doesn't seem too forced for the sole purpose of comedy, like when Ash was shocked by stepping on a Voltorb and immediately thought it was Pikachu.

It's not perfect, but I think it's one of the few running gags that actually worked, in my opinion. Until Sun and Moon, that is. Then it started to feel a little less creative and more repetitive...but maybe that's just because I can't recall any instances where the gag actually made me laugh in that series.

 

[-PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Hard disagree for all of your compositions.
Charizard and Bulbasaur already have enough spotlight so let’s not let them outshine the Pokémon who get limited screentime.

Why would you disagree when we know that if he used these pokemon he would've won those leagues?I guess you're looking at it from a viewers perspective,I'm looking at it from a realistic perspective.If you're stupid enough to bring back your Charizard after the Unova League instead of during the Unova League then you really do deserve to lose especially to a trainer who only had 5 pokemon.

 

[Enzo]

Why would you disagree when we know that if he used these pokemon he would've won those leagues?I guess you're looking at it from a viewers perspective,I'm looking at it from a realistic perspective.If you're stupid enough to bring back your Charizard after the Unova League instead of during the Unova League then you really do deserve to lose especially to a trainer who only had 5 pokemon.

We know??? How so? Yes, these Pokémon are great but there's no guarantee he would've won if he had brought them. The truth of the matter is: no matter which Pokémon Ash had brought into those fights, he would've lost due to the simple fact that the writers/higher-ups didn't want him to win, not because the Pokémon weren't necessarily good enough.

He could've brought all of his best of the best, he would've still lost because he wouldn't win because the higher-ups said so.

 

[Unireon]

While I do think that using the reserves could have give Satoshi an edge.

The truth is that the writers still have the say on what the result would be.

Satoshi could have brought back his reserves, and then still lose because they want him to.

And since many held those Pokemon in higher regard, they would have felt cheated.
The last time we had reserves, the staff also brought up a Diabolus-ex-Machina.

 

[Enzo]

Okay you're either delusional or arguing just to argue

I don't appreciate your tone. Don't talk to me like this.

There's no way he's beating Ash if he used his reserves.Only way Ash doesn't win is if the writers do what they did at the Sinnoh League and bring in a trainer who used nothing but legendaries.

He's beating Ash due to the simple reason I already explained to you: the ones that can control the series, be the writers and/or higher-ups, didn't wanted Ash to win. No matter how powerful Ash's team is, no matter how weak his opponent is, it doesn't matters at the end if they want him to lose.

And frankly, him losing with his absolute best team would probably be even worse than it actually went in the canon.

Ash could go into battle with a full team of box legendaries: if he's not meant to win, he won't. Simple as that.

 

[-PokemonBattleFanatic-]

While I do think that using the reserves could have give Satoshi an edge.

The truth is that the writers still have the say on what the result would be.

Satoshi could have brought back his reserves, and then still lose because they want him to.

And since many held those Pokemon in higher regard, they would have felt cheated.
The last time we had reserves, the staff also brought up a Diabolus-ex-Machina.

Yeah he'd lose to via trainer w/ legendary team.It's like you guys didn't even watch the Ever Grande Conference at all,Tyson literally won the entire thing using those 6 pokemon & Ash came close to beating him with his Pikachu.It would've been a stomp in Ash's favor if he used the lineup of Charizard,Snorlax,Bulbasaur,Glalie,Pikachu,Squirtle.

 

[Unireon]

They can make him lose in any way they want.

No matter if it is ridiculous or makes the reserves look bad.

If they want Satoshi to be defeated, it will happen.

 

[-PokemonBattleFanatic-]

They can make him lose in any way they want.

No matter if it is ridiculous or makes the reserves look bad.

If they want Satoshi to be defeated, it will happen.

LMFAO alright bro

 

[Jewel the Quaxly]

I'm looking at it from a realistic perspective

Well, if we're looking at it from a "realistic perspective", then Ash should've easily won against Cameron with just Pikachu. The only reason he lost was because Cameron's Lucario had some BS power that probably would've remained whether Ash used his reserves or not. Looking at a situation from a "realistic perspective" means considering all factors of the equation, because there are a number of things that can trip Ash up from winning a league. If you're talking "realistic perspective" in terms of game logic, then it contradicts itself because game and anime logic simply do not mix. Power levels have fluctuated wildly in the anime, Ash as a character prioritizes his newest team per region(note how he could've chosen his reserves to battle Paul in the Sinnoh league, chose not to, and against an entirely new and unknown team still managed to beat Paul), and the fact that his losses in some leagues were poorly justified by the writing implies that there was a meta reason as to why he didn't win.

I don't see how assuming that Ash bringing back his reserves would've guaranteed a win, nor do I see how it is realistic. It feels more likely, but that's about as far as I'd stretch it.

Also, lighten up, fellow heroes! This is the land of friendly bulbasaurs!

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

Then go cry to the mods about it,idc.

Please don't invoke mods like this. Remember that this is a forum for fandom discussion and that you're in a thread called "Controversial Opinions", meaning that you are bound to bump into someone who disagrees with yours eventually. I understand that it can be difficult to control your emotions when conversing with someone you don't see eye to eye with, but keep in mind that this disagreement is happening over an animated adaptation of a family-friendly videogame. Nothing you should be losing your temper over, let alone sniping at other users who kindly asked you to back down. Please do try to at least be more respectful. Thanks.

 

[-PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Well, if we're looking at it from a "realistic perspective", then Ash should've easily won against Cameron with just Pikachu. The only reason he lost was because Cameron's Lucario had some BS power that probably would've remained whether Ash used his reserves or not. Looking at a situation from a "realistic perspective" means considering all factors of the equation, because there are a number of things that can trip Ash up from winning a league. If you're talking "realistic perspective" in terms of game logic, then it contradicts itself because game and anime logic simply do not mix. Power levels have fluctuated wildly in the anime,

All of the reasons you named is why I have Paul as the better trainer.Whether if he beat Cameron or not wouldn't have mattered because he would've had Virgil and Dino to face afterwords,Virgil still had 3 pokemon remaining when he beat Cameron.

Ash as a character prioritizes his newest team per region(note how he could've chosen his reserves to battle Paul in the Sinnoh league, chose not to, and against an entirely new and unknown team still managed to beat Paul), and the fact that his losses in some leagues were poorly justified by the writing implies that there was a meta reason as to why he didn't win.

And since he prioritizes his newest team per region more often than not that's costed him a victory at the pokemon league.I wonder if you guys keep this same energy for all of the fans of XY that still complain to this day over the fact that Alain beat Ash at the Kalos League but they claim Ash was robbed.

If Ash chose his reserves over the team he used at Lake Acuity more than likely he'd win against Paul especially if that team also includes Infernape as a bonus.But with the team he did win with it was by the skin of his teeth.Paul sacrificed Gastrodon/Aggron to scout Ash's lineup and then had Drapion/Electivire take care of 5/6 of his team.It required Electivire to stop the referee from declaring Infernape unable to battle for Ash to get the victory even though Infernape was on the ground for several seconds.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

If the writers knew that Ash could challenge the elite 4 and lose after winning a league then why did it take 7 generations for Ash to win a league?
And when people say "Ash was robbed", no. Ash had the stronger team than Alain but choked. Everyone except for Pikachu choked. Greninja was supossed to defeat Charizard but it didn't. Ash put too much trust into Greninja over Pikachu who is better than Greninja and is more likely (by powerscaling to defeat Charizard).
Speaking of controversial: Ash's Greninja is only regarded as one of his strongest because of the Bond Phenomenon, and even with the Bond Phenomenon it's no where near as strong as Pikachu.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

But that was just with one pokemon,all the rest of Paul's had no problem with his training style.

Couldn’t you say the same for Torterra in Sinnoh? “Torterra was just one Pokémon; rest had no problem with Ash’s style.”

That doesn’t change the point that Ash and Paul have the same flaw: they are stubborn. Ash will more often than not fail if the Pokémon doesn’t adhere to his fast paced style, Paul will more often than not fail if any of his Pokémon don’t work well with the tough love strategy.

Plus the way he trains is more effective than Ash's as he was able to turn Elekid and Ursaring into absolute juggernauts in a short amount of time while with Ash he doesn't maximize his pokemon the same way as he's more of a trainer that shows

love

It might sound cliche, but you’re forgetting that love IS a part of training a Pokémon; and Paul probably needed it at some point as well. His Pokémon at the very least respect him for who he is. This is the anime; not the games; where Pokémon have their free will. The Pokémon would have quite simply refused to obey Paul if it felt unloved.

You’re also ignoring that Ash ALSO brought up strong Pokémon. He literally trained a Gible (a base stage; may I remind you) with a Draco Meteor that Tobias himself says could knock out his Darkrai; that, I might remind you again is the most powerful Pokémon in all of Sinnoh. And that’s not even bringing up Charizard; Snorlax and Bulbasaur you bring up on every league team. Paul forces his Pokémon to maximise for him, Ash sure his Pokémon love him enough to maximise for him.

Just look at Paul's entire roster of pokemon,6-9 of them are tanks/powerhouses and they got to that level through Paul's training system.

Ash has similar powerhouses.

Pokemon like Charizard,Squirtle,Snorlax and Gliscor were either already powerful or got to a certain level through another source.

You’re ignoring that Charizard wouldn’t even be powerful if it hasn’t been tamed by Ash. Same goes for Squirtle and Gliscor.
If Ash had never gained Charizard’s respect, no one would have been able to harness it.

Ash and Paul are classic literary foils. They are very different, but at their core have very similar aspirations and flaws. That was the entire point of the rivalry.

 

[-PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Couldn’t you say the same for Torterra in Sinnoh? “Torterra was just one Pokémon; rest had no problem with Ash’s style.”

Please elaborate and which Torterra are you speaking of?

That doesn’t change the point that Ash and Paul have the same flaw: they are stubborn. Ash will more often than not fail if the Pokémon doesn’t adhere to his fast paced style, Paul will more often than not fail if any of his Pokémon don’t work well with the tough love strategy.

Either that or the pokemon wasn't impressive in a certain battle or didn't have a good enough moveset.It shows that Paul is a competitive trainer.Can't say the same for Ash.But it appears you're someone who wants to cut it down the middle.If you had to choose between which style is more effective whose would you pick?Something tells me you're going with Ash since all you've done is disagree.

It might sound cliche, but you’re forgetting that love IS a part of training a Pokémon; and Paul probably needed it at some point as well. His Pokémon at the very least respect him for who he is. This is the anime; not the games; where Pokémon have their free will. The Pokémon would have quite simply refused to obey Paul if it felt unloved.

It obviously didn't work for him in the previous leagues he competed in did it?That's why he looked at his brother in a similar way with Ash,I honestly don't think it's more important than actually training your pokemon but it doesn't hurt to have it as a trainer.So Paul giving his pokemon some R&R wasn't good enough for you huh?Seeing his pokemon happy after his battle with Ash at the sinnoh league wasn't good enough for you huh?For someone who says they defend Paul often on here you could've fooled me.What credit have you given Paul?There's enough Ash defenders on the internet already.

The way I see it loving your pokemon is much easier than actually putting your pokemon through intense training and getting actual results from it since OS up until now we've had "loving your pokemon" shoved down our throats.Seeing what Paul was doing was refreshing,he managed to get results without relying on love as a crutch and I find that more respectable and impressive.

You’re also ignoring that Ash ALSO brought up strong Pokémon. He literally trained a Gible (a base stage; may I remind you) with a Draco Meteor that Tobias himself says could knock out his Darkrai; that, I might remind you again is the most powerful Pokémon in all of Sinnoh. And that’s not even bringing up Charizard; Snorlax and Bulbasaur you bring up on every league team. Paul forces his Pokémon to maximise for him, Ash sure his Pokémon love him enough to maximise for him.

Paul is an experienced and skilled trainer that has traveled through the Sinnoh,Hoenn,Johto,Kanto regions,collected all 8 badges and competed at their leagues.In early DP he was shown capturing and scanning pokemon for their moveset,depending on their moves or performances in battle he either keeps them or releases them.When he owned Chimchar at the time his reason for capturing it was because of it's ability Blaze but in battle it didn't activate the same way it did when it was attacked by a gang of Zangoose.Each time it made an appearance in battle against Ash it physically got stronger,faster and learned a new move.It was evident when Paul was putting it through really intense training during the Hearthome Tag Battle Tournament mini arc,he'd have his other pokemon attack it then command it to attack back.

He was shown using this same training style with his other pokemon in later episodes (Aiding the Enemy/A Pyramiding Rage).Paul's Torterra is his most powerful and the most experienced,it's on screen loss in DP was against the sinnoh champion Cynthia's Garchomp.His Ursaring was captured by his previously owned Chimchar who a lot of times deemed it as weak then you fast forward mid way through DP it becomes a huge powerhouse.His Elekid at the beginning of DP was shown in a flashback getting KO'd by his previously owned Chimchar (Tears for Fears),ever since that happened it rapidly got stronger,at the sinnoh league it defeated 2 of Ash's pokemon nearly defeated Infernape before it's ability blaze activated.He has a Drapion that swept half of Ash's team at the sinnoh league.

His other pokemon (Magmortar,Honchkrow,Gliscor,Nidoking and Hariyama) are pretty powerful as well.Then there's his more weaker pokemon like Ninjask,Gastrodon and Froslass who managed to give Ash a bit of a tough time at the league.So overall Paul has a large number of powerhouses/tanks and good battlers that know status moves/abilities.It has to do with him capturing the strongest species of pokemon he can find,putting them through a rigorous training system where he has them take attacks from his other pokemon to build up their defense and also learn moves/abilities.

I didn't include Ash because he's been too inconsistent,Hoenn-Sinnoh he gradually got better at training his pokemon but BW-SM it's been up and down.Plus I don't think he truly trains his pokemon as hard as the others I mentioned above,especially Paul and Alain.Sceptile and maybe Infernape (if you don't count it previously being with Paul) are the strongest pokemon he's trained so far as a trainer.His Charizard,Gliscor,Squirtle got strong through another source,his Snorlax was already powerful before being captured,his Greninja has "battle bond/bond phenomenon" but that is something that had nothing to do with Ash's training,in it's base form it's weaker than Charizard,Sceptile,Infernape,Snorlax and arguably Pikachu.

Ash has similar powerhouses.

His Sceptile was still a Grovyle at the Hoenn League and had a case for being his 3rd strongest behind Glalie and Swellow.It apparently got stronger when it came back at the sinnoh league which had nothing to do with Ash.Greninja is strong but most of it's impressive feats are when it uses Battle Bond which had nothing to do with Ash's training,it was just some BS powerup that was created,in it's base form it's below all of Ash's other main powerhouses.Ash did a decent job training Infernape even though it previously belonged to Paul.

Ash said he wouldn't rely on Hax Blaze but had no choice but to use it to beat Paul at the sinnoh league.Snorlax was already powerful before Ash captured it and he didn't take training seriously until Hoenn.I give him little to no credit for Charizard getting stronger because all of his best feats were due to it's training at Charicific Valley which I dubbed as the Hyperbolic Time Chamber.Each time Charizard came back from there it learned a new move and got stronger,it's purpose was pretty much to bail Ash out of tough situations like at the Johto League and against that Articuno.Saying Charizard was able to do that solely because of Ash is just asinine.

You’re ignoring that Charizard wouldn’t even be powerful if it hasn’t been tamed by Ash.Same goes for Squirtle and Gliscor
If Ash had never gained Charizard’s respect, no one would have been able to harness it.

Squirtle and Gliscor were able to do what they did because of their training away from Ash.Squirtle was busy fighting fires and Gliscor was sent to the air battle master.Can't give credit to someone who had nothing to do with their progression.

Ash and Paul are classic literary foils. They are very different, but at their core have very similar aspirations and flaws. That was the entire point of the rivalry.

Which was the best thing about the DP series