9/11: an inside job?

[shining-Celebi]

There is many "evidence" for the probability of 9/11 to have been planned by the government.

What are your thoughts on the subject?

 

[Falconwing]

There is many "evidence" for the probability of 9/11 to have been planned by the government.

What are your thoughts on the subject?

I agree it was an inside job (last time this topic was up everyone disagreed strongly with me) but to say the government planned it? That's going a little too far.

 

[Ho-oh]

I doubt it.

 

[Hector]

No. That is all.

 

[Dewgong Reign]

I thought consipracy topics were to be dealt with by a mod now

 

[Big Lutz]

No the inside job theory has been disproven many times, from Popular Mechanic, to I believe the Discovery Channel ( Or one of the Documentary channels did a documentary of it, testing every conspiracy angle )

The amount of people needed for a inside job would rank in the thousands.

Not to mention it was being planned as far back as 1998. For it to be a inside job it would have to have been carried over from the Clinton White House into the Bush White House. At that time the two parties hated each other after the disputed election, if one party had found out that the other was planning or assisting to bring about a massive attack on Americans, it would have been front page news.

 

[Eredar Warlock]

This was why Van Jones lost his job.

Seriously, this is a pretty fringe way of thinking.

 

[evkl]

While I think Lutz's argument is a bit weak (the CIA kind of does whatever it wants regardless of administration; during J. Edgar Hoover the FBI was the same) I also think there's no evidence for an "inside job" in any sense of the word.

There were certainly failures of intelligence that indicated an attack was coming that were not acted on, though.

 

[Falconwing]

My logic is the fact that we allowed the terrorists into the nation, we taught them how to fly the planes, we allowed them to live here, and then ignored any sign of an attack. If that's not an inside job, however unintentional, I don't know what is.

 

[Big Lutz]

While I think Lutz's argument is a bit weak (the CIA kind of does whatever it wants regardless of administration; during J. Edgar Hoover the FBI was the same) I also think there's no evidence for an "inside job" in any sense of the word.

There were certainly failures of intelligence that indicated an attack was coming that were not acted on, though.

Well mind you that was just my fundamental argument. But even if it was just the CIA, you have to think about the amount of man power that would have been needed to fake or collude with Bin Laden for nearly 4 years if not more. You would need hundreds if not thousands of people that would have to be in on it, working back and forth, setting meetings up, planning the events perfectly, passing information to dozens of men in dozens of different countries. All with out getting caught.

As we know with conspiracies, the larger the conspiracy, the larger the group needed to pull off, thus the greater the chance of some one screwing up, or some one leaking it. For the CIA to pull this off, over so many years, through two different Administrations, which means political appointments to the CIA as well. It goes beyond fantasy.

My logic is the fact that we allowed the terrorists into the nation, we taught them how to fly the planes, we allowed them to live here, and then ignored any sign of an attack. If that's not an inside job, however unintentional, I don't know what is.

Never underestimate the firewalls set up between agencies. Yes we let them in here, and after that they were free to do as they wished. We did not allow them to fly planes as they were able to do that at any plane school, we did not allow them to live here as they could do that at any apartment.

The problem is two fold, first our immigration and customs people were extremely lacking to down right pathetic at the time. Second and most important is that after the 1993 attacks the Clinton White House put terrorism as a police matter. That was stupid. Because of that, the CIA and the FBI could not share information back and forth. The CIA had info on these guys, but because of the firewalls set up, they could not give it to the FBI unless risk jeopardizing any court case.

As for the signs of attack, many many people have come forward saying that lights were blinking red for some time. The problem is we were not set up to handle the information flow. It was coming in so fast, and from so many different sources no one could make sense of it.

As for it being a inside job, remember: words have meaning. Inside job suggests that we knowingly helped out in some way. That is a lie.

 

[DerMißingno]

My logic is the fact that we allowed the terrorists into the nation, we taught them how to fly the planes, we allowed them to live here, and then ignored any sign of an attack. If that's not an inside job, however unintentional, I don't know what is.

Allowing them to come and live and learn to fly is not an active action, it's passive. A lot of people move to the United States, and a lot of people learn how to fly. Besides, they didn't learn how to fly commercial airliners, they learned how to fly cessnas and whatnot.

 

[YodaTux]

My logic is the fact that we allowed the terrorists into the nation, we taught them how to fly the planes, we allowed them to live here, and then ignored any sign of an attack. If that's not an inside job, however unintentional, I don't know what is.

Agreed... I suggest people look in to the military group called Able Danger, this group specifically tracked several of the hi jackers. Another interesting read is Operation Northwoods.

While I don't think our goverment planned the whole thing, there is plenty of evidence that leads one to think that aspects of our government let it happen.

In google videos, search for Core of Coruption, Fabled Enimies. Both of these movies have interesting informaiton regarding information around 9/11

 

[Falconwing]

Allowing them to come and live and learn to fly is not an active action, it's passive. A lot of people move to the United States, and a lot of people learn how to fly. Besides, they didn't learn how to fly commercial airliners, they learned how to fly cessnas and whatnot.

I agree, but still, we had a hand in our own destruction. We weren't careful enough and it came around to bite us. They may have learned how to fly cessnas, but once they were in the air, all they really needed to know was how to handle the plane long enough to crash it into a tower.

 

[Rellik]

The United States government did not plan 9/11. It really blows my mind that anyone would be ignorant enough to believe something like that.

EDIT:

I agree, but still, we had a hand in our own destruction. We weren't careful enough and it came around to bite us. They may have learned how to fly cessnas, but once they were in the air, all they really needed to know was how to handle the plane long enough to crash it into a tower.

If the government knew that they were coming to America to learn to fly planes so that they could crash two commercial airliners into the WTC, and still let them go about their business, then you could call it an inside job. But seeing as that isn't the case, then you can't say that.

 

[DerMißingno]

I agree, but still, we had a hand in our own destruction. We weren't careful enough and it came around to bite us. They may have learned how to fly cessnas, but once they were in the air, all they really needed to know was how to handle the plane long enough to crash it into a tower.

So what do you propose as a solution? People still have their right to privacy.

 

[Big Lutz]

I agree, but still, we had a hand in our own destruction. We weren't careful enough and it came around to bite us. They may have learned how to fly cessnas, but once they were in the air, all they really needed to know was how to handle the plane long enough to crash it into a tower.

But there was nothing we could do, the FBI was not being given information on these guys by the CIA due to jeopardizing any possible court case. So with out knowing if these guys are good or bad, you are pretty much saying we should have Racial Profiled because they were arab.

 

[Falconwing]

But there was nothing we could do, the FBI was not being given information on these guys by the CIA due to jeopardizing any possible court case. So with out knowing if these guys are good or bad, you are pretty much saying we should have Racial Profiled because they were arab.

how would exchange of information jeopardize a court case?

 

[YodaTux]

how would exchange of information jeopardize a court case?

Even more so when several of the hi-jackers were already classied as high risk.

 

[Big Lutz]

how would exchange of information jeopardize a court case?

Its alot of legal mumbo jumbo that was set up. Basically one agency cannot share information with another agency. At the time Terrorism was considered a police matter, so first and foremost everyone was worried about how the court case would be made after they were captured.

Even more so when several of the hi-jackers were already clissied as high risk.

Except the FBI really did not know that, as the information the CIA got on the Hijackers from a conference that was held a year or so earlier, could not be shared.

 

[Falconwing]

Its alot of legal mumbo jumbo that was set up. Basically one agency cannot share information with another agency. At the time Terrorism was considered a police matter, so first and foremost everyone was worried about how the court case would be made after they were captured.



Except the FBI really did not know that, as the information the CIA got on the Hijackers from a conference that was held a year or so earlier, could not be shared.

And that makes no political sense. Our two largest organizations dedicated to the security of this country were not allowed to share information? By allowing that we pretty much bought the gun with the intent of shooting ourselves in the feet.