Controversial opinions

[Hidden Mew]

Here I have another one: I think Iris is an underrated character.

Iris seems to be the most hated character of them all, but in my eyes, she is actually one of the better female leads. Not the best, but not that bad either. I have a feeling that many people ignore all of the positives attributes Iris has only because of that one annoying running gag. I wonder if she would be more liked or tolerated if this gag never was a part of her character. But back to all of her underrated skills and characterizations:

1. She is the most agile and athletic out of all the girls.
2. She has knowledge of healing herbs.
3. She is pretty strong for a companion character. I would even say Iris is the third strongest companion after Brock and Misty.
4. She interacted with Ash a lot and also with other characters like Dawn, and was overall a pretty noticeable character.
5. She has a pretty unique and outstanding design.
6. She has some interesting Pokémon in her team, and almost all of them have an outstanding personality.
7. Iris herself also has got a pretty layered personality as well: she is cocky, wild, tomboyish, has a high opinion of herself, likes to nag other people, is a nature person, can be a bit childish sometimes, is interested in supernatural things, etc. I would even dare say that she is one of the most layered characters in terms of personality.

I really don't think that Iris's running gag is the main reason a lot of fans dislike her. Most people didn't like it from what I've seen, but it usually wasn't the main thing people brought up when saying that she liked her. I really disagree that her strength is anything noteworthy due to how she doesn't work for any of her accomplishments. Despite how her focused episodes tended to put her on a pedestal, Iris' skills were average at best. I really wouldn't say that she's one of the strongest companions mainly because of how forced her strength comes off. I also don't recall her team being that memorable in terms of personality. Axew was just a baby Pokemon, Excadrill didn't really stand out after it started to listen to Iris again and I keep forgetting that Emolga even existed. Her Dragonite stood out more personality wise, but that was mainly because it always looked angry instead of the more typical cute expression we've seen on other Dragonite.

To be fair, I can kind of understand why other people would like Iris to a certain point. There were some episodes in BW where I felt like I could have liked Iris if there was better writing behind her storyline/focused episodes. I just find her way too unlikable and borderline insufferable to find any part of her personality appealing or to rank her high up for her personality alone.

Mythical. Not Legendary.

That's basically the same thing. I don't remember the term Mythical Pokemon even being established before the fifth or sixth generation, so it's still a Legendary Pokemon.

Well, I might as well give out my lists now

1. Dawn
2. May
3. Serena
4. Bonnie
5. Lillie
6. Lana
7. Misty
8. Mallow
9. Iris

1. Clemont
2. Kiawe
3. Brock
4. Cilan
5. Tracey
6. Sophocles
7. Max

Some of the ordering could change around by the end of SM, although I don't expect I'd rank the SM female leads much higher than what they currently are ranked for me. The main reason why I'd rank Lana above Misty is mainly because she has a Primarina and because I'm not really into Misty.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

That's basically the same thing. I don't remember the term Mythical Pokemon even being established before the fifth or sixth generation, so it's still a Legendary Pokemon.

And Mythicals are basically event exclusive legendary Pokemon, so it doesn’t really matter much.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

That's basically the same thing. I don't remember the term Mythical Pokemon even being established before the fifth or sixth generation, so it's still a Legendary Pokemon.

And Mythicals are basically event exclusive legendary Pokemon, so it doesn’t really matter much.

Actually, the term "Mythical" has been in use in Japanese since the games' inception. It just took the localizers a good while to adapt it. I admit they are kinda like event-exclusive Legendary Pokémon, but I think it's still good to know the difference.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

I admit they are kinda like event-exclusive Legendary Pokémon, but I think it's still good to know the difference.

Pretty sure most here remember the difference, but cannot be bothered to be specific enough, since the difference isn’t really relevant to most discussions.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Pretty sure most here remember the difference, but cannot be bothered to be specific enough, since the difference isn’t really relevant to most discussions.

Fair enough. I'm just personally a nitpicker who wants to use as correct of a term as possible.

 

[Daenerys]

If I would make a raking of the girls in terms of how much personality quirks they have, it would look like this:

1. Dawn
2. Iris
3. Lillie
4. Misty
5. May
6. Bonnie
7. Lana
8. Serena
9. Mallow (sorry, once again Mallow, but you really also do not stick out much in that terms as well.)

I think it's interesting that you previously ranked Iris as #6 on your previous list and now suddenly she's #2. She's really zooming up those charts huh.

I disagree I don’t think they understand who the hardcore fans are.

Oh I'm sure they do; it's more likely that they just don't care. And I mean, why would they? The franchise is aimed at a young demographic, so if I were in their shoes I wouldn't pander to fans who don't meet that criteria either. I also don't get why some people think that the showrunners are out of touch with reality when everything that they do is meant to follow a clear business model of making the most profit just like any other company. If there was really a way for them to make more money off of a second anime series, they would've found a way to do it by now.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Honestly, I don't like PokeSpecial / Adventures or Origins. I think it's bland, incredibly boring with no direction, uninspiring character directions, no sense of understanding of Pokemon in general and unable to keep up with the demand and refusing to be consistent running themselves into a wall before dropping plots and being absolutely unenjoyable as a whole. Origins is just "Oh. Let's make a short promotion and trick people into thinking it's good because they will!" It's not good. People only like it 'cause it's "edgy" from the PokeAni (which DOES have flaws and terrible writing over all but still)... I'm hoping Origins and a "hardcore" grown up version never exists. Because People will end up complaining about the exact same thing about it as they do with the current one.

While I like Pokémon Adventures, it's not flawless. For example, it sometimes incorporates game logic so much that some real life logic is ignored in the process (something which the anime has handled a lot better). And I feel that each of the main characters having some special skill that puts them above all else in a certain way right from the start limits the amount of character growth they can have and makes them feel too special. Some game character characterizations can also be pretty weird and even awful at times, most notably with some of the villains. Those are just some of the problems I feel with the manfa, but that'll do for now.

 

[Weiss]

I think it's interesting that you previously ranked Iris as #6 on your previous list and now suddenly she's #2. She's really zooming up those charts huh.



Oh I'm sure they do; it's more likely that they just don't care. And I mean, why would they? The franchise is aimed at a young demographic, so if I were in their shoes I wouldn't pander to fans who don't meet that criteria either. I also don't get why some people think that the showrunners are out of touch with reality when everything that they do is meant to follow a clear business model of making the most profit just like any other company. If there was really a way for them to make more money off of a second anime series, they would've found a way to do it by now.

It doesn’t matter who it’s aimed at really if you know who spends the big bucks then you need to at least not tick them off.

Pokémon will always have Japan but since moving back to the UK some years ago. I can’t say it’s anywhere near as popular as it was in Japan maybe it never was.

That said the only people I see buying Merch are people my age and a little on either side of my age. There is a big “Otaku” themed store a few hours drive from me. Whenever we go we are the only people who have kids or bring their kids. The clerk even said it was usual for kids to come in.

While I like Pokémon Adventures, it's not flawless. For example, it sometimes incorporates game logic so much that some real life logic is ignored in the process (something which the anime has handled a lot better). And I feel that each of the main characters having some special skill that puts them above all else in a certain way right from the start limits the amount of character growth they can have and makes them feel too special. Some game character characterizations can also be pretty weird and even awful at times, most notably with some of the villains. Those are just some of the problems I feel with the manfa, but that'll do for now.

I like all the series for different reasons. None of them are perfect though. I do think it’s unfair to compare or criticise things like Origins given it’s tiny budget.

 

[HiroHunter]

I like all the series for different reasons. None of them are perfect though. I do think it’s unfair to compare or criticise things like Origins given it’s tiny budget.

The size of the budget doesn't matter, its what they do with said budget is what matters. And what they did with it was make a unfocused mess that did a lot of telling and little showing.

 

[Vengeful Ghost]

No, BW and SM are not in a different universe from the rest of the series. People hold this sentiment since they want their vision of Ash to remain as pure and incorrupt as possible.

 

[HiroHunter]

No, BW and SM are not in a different universe from the rest of the series. People hold this sentiment since they want their vision of Ash to remain as pure and incorrupt as possible.

I think its more of a case of wanting to keep Ash on a level of growth and BW and SM don't really fit in with said level of growth.

 

[Weiss]

The size of the budget doesn't matter, its what they do with said budget is what matters. And what they did with it was make a unfocused mess that did a lot of telling and little showing.

Because they didn’t have the budget to hire better staff or pay for more episodes. You seem to be using a lot of circular logic tbh.

You don’t like it fine I don’t mind but saying it wouldn’t matter if it had a bigger budget is ridiculous. All we got was some fan service and as fan service it’s good enough in my opinion.

 

[Vengeful Ghost]

I think its more of a case of wanting to keep Ash on a level of growth and BW and SM don't really fit in with said level of growth.

While that's a cause, there are fans who vehemently deny BW happened before XY and use the defense "that wasn't necessarily Ash getting on the plane with Alexa. That's one of those Ashes from a Mirror Dimension from that cave. The BW we saw was just a mirror version of the main universe." It seems people like that are more interesting in worshipping Ash rather than paying attention to actual continuity.

 

[HiroHunter]

Because they didn’t have the budget to hire better staff or pay for more episodes. You seem to be using a lot of circular logic tbh.

You don’t like it fine I don’t mind but saying it wouldn’t matter if it had a bigger budget is ridiculous. All we got was some fan service and as fan service it’s good enough in my opinion.

And thats fine. I'm saying that what matters is what you do with said budget.

While that's a cause, there are fans who vehemently deny BW happened before XY and use the defense "that wasn't necessarily Ash getting on the plane with Alexa. That's one of those Ashes from a Mirror Dimension from that cave. The BW we saw was just a mirror version of the main universe." It seems people like that are more interesting in worshipping Ash rather than paying attention to actual continuity.

I thinks its that BW Ash was so different from how he was skill wise from before.

 

[Weiss]

The S&M anime is actually really good even if I dislike Ash’s appearance. The animation is probably the best yet from a technical standpoint.

And thats fine. I'm saying that what matters is what you do with said budget.

I thinks its that BW Ash was so different from how he was skill wise from before.

Sometimes you do the best you can with that budget I think that was it. Animation is extremely expensive.

 

[HiroHunter]

The S&M anime is actually really good even if I dislike Ash’s appearance. The animation is probably the best yet from a technical standpoint.

Outside of battles I think the animation is fine. Its inside of battle when its falls off.

Sometimes you do the best you can with that budget I think that was it. Animation is extremely expensive.

And because of that characters and story took a back seat in favor for fan service.

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

Why do you think Pokémon Origins didn't have a budget? I don't remember it being badly animated or anything like that. Some people even praised it back then.

 

[Prince Enos]

Human x Pokemon relationships are childish and adorable. Nothing inappropriate to be seen here.

 

[Weiss]

Why do you think Pokémon Origins didn't have a budget? I don't remember it being badly animated or anything like that. Some people even praised it back then.

It was made for a fraction of the Pokémon anime that’s all I meant. People compare it with the Pokémon anime and I don’t think it’s fair. Given the number of episodes they had to tell all of season 1 in what 12 episodes or 10? At a fraction of the cost as well.

 

[HiroHunter]

It was made for a fraction of the Pokémon anime that’s all I meant. People compare it with the Pokémon anime and I don’t think it’s fair. Given the number of episodes they had to tell all of season 1 in what 12 episodes or 10? At a fraction of the cost as well.

Origins had 4 eps and that doesn't stop people from saying how much better Origins Red is than Ash even when he isn't.