Controversial opinions

[Daenerys]

Regardless of what "the page" says, I still consider Primeape to be released or at the very least gone forever. The "he's just training, he'll come back!!!!" side hardly has legs to stand on anymore after the way that Primeape's cameo among Ash's Oak'd Pokemon in the second BW opening led nowhere, and as far as I'm concerned, he's as good as released since he hasn't reunited with Ash in almost 22 years. To put things into perspective; I became a teenager, then an adult, went to college, started my career, bought a car, got married, bought a house and had 3 kids in the time that he's been gone from Ash's team. I'll probably be in a retirement home by the time that he makes his next 2-second cameo.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Something I've come to realize only recently, for some reason: if Togepi was a newly discovered and pretty much unknown Pokémon back in Generation I, why was everybody outside of the main cast not surprised at all when they saw or heard about it for the first time? For example, in The Lost Lapras, some random tourist knew Togepi's name. I'm not calling out the possibility that some of the people who saw it prior to the Johto saga might have known about Johto or at least some Johto Pokémon, but that no one who saw it prior to Johto didn't wonder what it was?

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

Something I've come to realize only recently, for some reason: if Togepi was a newly discovered and pretty much unknown Pokémon back in Generation I, why was everybody outside of the main cast not surprised at all when they saw or heard about it for the first time?

Retcon.

It wasn't given to a person.

What counts as a person? Arceus is the creator of the world, does he matter less than some random guy because he's not a human?

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

What counts as a person? Arceus is the creator of the world, does he matter less than some random guy because he's not a human?

What counts is the Pokémon being explicitly stated to have been left with someone to train to get stronger. Ash's Beedrill doesn't count, because he gave it away as a gift, not to be trained. Primeape is in a bit of a grey line between gift and in-training, but it was still given to someone to train, so Bulbapedia (and I) counts this as it being in training instead of being given away.

 

[Shadao]

What counts is the Pokémon being explicitly stated to have been left with someone to train to get stronger. Ash's Beedrill doesn't count, because he gave it away as a gift, not to be trained. Primeape is in a bit of a grey line between gift and in-training, but it was still given to someone to train, so Bulbapedia (and I) counts this as it being in training instead of being given away.

And does that matter to the Pokémon writers? Given away, training, released? Those are fan-terms to categorize the status of each individual Pokémon for a characters. And fiction is not as observable as real life. It's like what the late Stan Lee said about the whole "Who Will Win" mania.



The Pokémon that comes back to the series is the Pokémon that the scriptwriter wants to come back. Plain and simple. And if the Pokémon have a large marketing back in the day along with a big fanbase that still remembers them fondly, there's no incentive not to do it.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

And does that matter to the Pokémon writers? Given away, training, released? Those are fan-terms to categorize the status of each individual Pokémon for a characters. And fiction is not as observable as real life. It's like what the late Stan Lee said about the whole "Who Will Win" mania.

Actually, they do. Those terms are official and the accessibility doesn't affect their definitions.

Released Pokémon are in the wild, (most of the time) without supervision, and it's a mechanic directly taken from the games. Butterfree, Greninja, and Goodra fall into this category, for example, with the latter technically being temporarily recaught for the Kalos League.

"In training" is basically the equivalent of a pre-Generation VII Day Care, where a Pokémon is left under someone else's care to grow stronger, while the original Trainer still retains the Pokémon's official ownership. Primeape and Charizard fall into this category, for example.

"Given away" is a game mechanic too. It's called "gift Pokémon" and means just what the name implies: Pokémon that are given to other people as gifts, giving their ownership to them as well. Beedrill falls into this category.

 

[Shadao]

Actually, they do. Those terms are official and the accessibility doesn't affect their definition.

Released Pokémon are in the wild, (most of the time) without supervision, and it's a mechanic directly taken from the games. Butterfree, Greninja, and Goodra fall into this category, for example, with the latter technically being temporarily recaught for the Kalos League.

"In training" is basically the equivalent of a pre-Generation VII Day Care, where a Pokémon is left under someone else's care to grow stronger, while the original Trainer still retains the Pokémon's official ownership. Primeape and Charizard fall into this category, for example.

"Given away" is a game mechanic too. It's called "gift Pokémon" and means just what the name implies: Pokémon that are given to other people as gifts, giving their ownership to them as well. Beedrill falls into this category.

In the games, released Pokémon are Pokémon that are permanently gone in a PC box. They can't be recaptured. But in the anime, they can. Do you remember Dawn's Pachirisu? It was captured by Dawn, then released into the wild, then recaptured again by Dawn. That cannot happen in the games. If Dawn released a Pokémon like in the games, that's it. No redo.

What does that tell us? Writers are not obliged to adhere to game mechanics. They haven't ever since Pikachu defeated Geodude and Onix with Thunderbolt, and Takeshi Shudō deconstructs all of it in School of Hard Knocks.

In the anime, Pokémon can think for themselves and choose their own trainer on their own volition. If they want to come back, they can and will. And by the writer's pen, anything is possible.

Greninja didn't find a new home in the wild. He's only there to help Zygarde eliminate the vines left by Team Flare. Once the job is done, guess where he'll go? It's the same as Charizard. The training could have been infinite, but Charizard finished nonetheless and return to Oak's Lab.

 

[Yami-no-Game]

Greninja didn't find a new home in the wild. He's only there to help Zygarde eliminate the vines left by Team Flare. Once the job is done, guess where he'll go? It's the same as Charizard. The training could have been infinite, but Charizard finished nonetheless and return to Oak's Lab.

I think people are reaching if they think that Greninja's coming back. Charizard came back because he had a legacy since the Kanto series, meanwhile Greninja's a fad who was only relevant for about three years before the fandom moved on. Even Ash's special Greninja is past its prime in terms of popularity now.

 

[PrettySylveon]

Serena is actually the least best of Ash’s female companions & no that doesn’t mean I dislike or hate her. It’s just that I like her the least.

I enjoyed Cilan better than Brock.

I had no problem with Ash losing to Alain and I actually like Alain as a character.

I don’t mind Trip and see him as a decent character.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I had no problem with Ash losing to Alain and I actually like Alain as a character.

Of all of your opinions, this is the only one I completely agree with.

 

[Daenerys]

I think people are reaching if they think that Greninja's coming back. Charizard came back because he had a legacy since the Kanto series, meanwhile Greninja's a fad who was only relevant for about three years before the fandom moved on. Even Ash's special Greninja is past its prime in terms of popularity now.

Even if Greninja and Ash reunite, he'll just leave him at Oak's lab and we'll barely see him again anyways. So I hardly care about what happens to him in the future. Also I don't know what the "Why not?" rating is supposed to mean? Are people agreeing or disagreeing with what I say when they give me that vague reaction?

 

[Shadao]

I think people are reaching if they think that Greninja's coming back. Charizard came back because he had a legacy since the Kanto series, meanwhile Greninja's a fad who was only relevant for about three years before the fandom moved on. Even Ash's special Greninja is past its prime in terms of popularity now.

That's what they said about Pokémon as a whole, and yet here we are now. And that's what they said about Lucario, and yet Lucario still makes its mark every now and then. And as long as Greninja is immortalized in Super Smash Bros, I ain't counting Greninja out yet.

 

[Yami-no-Game]

That's what they said about Pokémon as a whole, and yet here we are now. And that's what they said about Lucario, and yet Lucario still makes its mark every now and then. And as long as Greninja is immortalized in Super Smash Bros, I ain't counting Greninja out yet.

Why are you bringing up Lucario when I was talking about Ash's Greninja and Ash's Charizard. You know, Pokemon that Ash actually owned.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Stage Fight! and The Mandarin Island Miss-Match being removed from DVD and streaming releases due to black Jynx's appearance in them is just ridiculous. In both episodes, Jynx plays a very minor role, so it honestly shouldn't be that hard to just recolor her, or even easier, just cut the shots where she's present. Outright banning these episodes just makes the people behind the decision to ban them look lazy.

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

Stage Fight! and The Mandarin Island Miss-Match being removed from DVD and streaming releases due to black Jynx's appearance in them is just ridiculous.

Not controversial at all.

Why are you bringing up Lucario when I was talking about Ash's Greninja and Ash's Charizard. You know, Pokemon that Ash actually owned.

Because you were talking about fads and popular pokémon?

 

[Kurolegacy]

Either that or kept Muk on Ash's team after the power plant episode, although I guess that the writers were more enthralled by the idea of Muk remaining a gag Pokemon with Prof. Oak. They could've brought Krabby back by mid-Kanto to fill the void on Ash's team as well instead of just waiting until the Indigo league, but nooooooo. Man looking back, Kanto sure was a mess.

Yea Kanto was quite the mess that I question a lot of their decisions with from the “pity badges” (seriously, half his badges weren’t even earned by beating the gym leader and 1 was from beating TRio) instead of real gym battle wins, having him capture Pokémon only to give them away or not use them, only ever using his bird for scouting and popping TRio’s balloon, the list goes on. It’s almost odd to think that the Orange League actually gave us our first full battle in the series and was actually a pretty nice battle.

 

[Daenerys]

Why are you bringing up Lucario when I was talking about Ash's Greninja and Ash's Charizard. You know, Pokemon that Ash actually owned.

I think people just want to make Greninja seem like less of an irrelevant species by leap frogging off of Lucario and using it as an example of a Pokemon that's past its prime but still frequently seen in merchandise and stuff. I don't agree with them though; as far as I know, Lucario and Greninja peaked in terms of relevance ages ago no matter how many plushies they sell now.

Stage Fight! and The Mandarin Island Miss-Match being removed from DVD and streaming releases due to black Jynx's appearance in them is just ridiculous. In both episodes, Jynx plays a very minor role, so it honestly shouldn't be that hard to just recolor her, or even easier, just cut the shots where she's present. Outright banning these episodes just makes the people behind the decision to ban them look lazy.

I don't like the fact that both episodes were basically written out of continuity in the dub, but removing Jynx from 'The Mandarin Island Miss-Match' would've been awkward since Jynx was the one who sent TRio blasting off at the end of that episode. And deleting that entire scene would've made TRio's appearance earlier in the episode completely pointless and unfinished.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I don't like the fact that both episodes were basically written out of continuity in the dub, but removing Jynx from 'The Mandarin Island Miss-Match' would've been awkward since Jynx was the one who sent TRio blasting off at the end of that episode. And deleting that entire scene would've made TRio's appearance earlier in the episode completely pointless and unfinished.

Well, they could've just recolored Jynx instead. They've done it with Holiday Hi-Jynx, why not here?

 

[Shadao]

I think people just want to make Greninja seem like less of an irrelevant species by leap frogging off of Lucario and using it as an example of a Pokemon that's past its prime but still frequently seen in merchandise and stuff. I don't agree with them though; as far as I know, Lucario and Greninja peaked in terms of relevance ages ago no matter how many plushies they sell now.

And so was Charizard for a long time. Didn't get much relevance till Gen VI with Mega Evolutions, which is also the Gen where Lucario gets a Mega Evolution promotion. In fact, it was considered a joke back in Gen IV and V for being 4x weak against Rock, and people simply wouldn't let go of it due to nostalgia. Heck, I don't even think Charizard even appeared in Diamond & Pearl, not even for a cameo. Yet it's nostalgia that brought Charizard back in the spotlight in a big way.

And considering that Greninja is still popular enough to play a major role in Detective Pikachu, I don't see that frog going away any time soon.

 

[Charcoatl]

Korrina should have been in the main cast during the Kalos saga in place of Bonnie. I feel like Bonnie would work out just fine as a recurring character while Korrina's presence could make for some funny interactions in the XY group.