Controversial opinions

[KenzeyEevee]

Goh is so controversial.

 

[Alola]

It seems this bears mentioning once more - a reminder that this is the controversial opinion thread. As in, a safe space for users to share opinions that may be disagreed with elsewhere in the AM section. The expectation is that users are respectful here with their comments, for their own posts and that to others.

If you have something negative to say about an already controversial opinion, please refrain from doing so - this is not the thread for debating unpopular opinions or things you explicitly disagree with. Thank you!

 

[ii kanji]

this is not the thread for debating unpopular opinions or things you explicitly disagree with.

Whilst I completely understand what you are talking about/agree with the spirit of your post, isn't this exactly the thread in which to respectfully discuss such things? I know I have had a couple of very good debates here when my views have been respectfully challenged (emphasis on the respectful aspect of that lol). Of course if that is impossible to moderate and everyone else feels completely differently then that is fair enough and I too will toe the line, but this is a forum after all and I think we're all here because we want to talk about Pokemon, not just click likes on each other's posts.

 

[charinija]

The writers forgot about Ash Ketchum, it really doesn't sound believable.

We haven't watched an episode about Ash for 3 months. I thought this episode would focus on Ash. Disappointment officially.

The authors officially waste Ash.

 

[Enzo]

Whilst I completely understand what you are talking about/agree with the spirit of your post, isn't this exactly the thread in which to respectfully discuss such things? I know I have had a couple of very good debates here when my views have been respectfully challenged (emphasis on the respectful aspect of that lol). Of course if that is impossible to moderate and everyone else feels completely differently then that is fair enough and I too will toe the line, but this is a forum after all and I think we're all here because we want to talk about Pokemon, not just click likes on each other's posts.

Yep, like,,, ofc people shouldn't jump on each others necks for their opinions here, but this a forum for a reason. And forums were created espcifically for debating about a certain thing. If you don't want your opinion/take debated, don't post it online. And if you don't wanna debate something, don't come and comment on a thread that was made especifically for it, u know? At least that's my opinion.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

And I’m pretty sure the thread asks for controversial opinions because those are the ones which generally incite a response. It should be fine as long as the comment isn’t just "No, I disagree" or something like "Your opinion is wrong", and there are rules against comments like that anyways.

 

[swiftgallade46]

If you have something negative to say about an already controversial opinion, please refrain from doing so - this is not the thread for debating unpopular opinions or things you explicitly disagree with.

It’s important to read the full sentence of what Alola had posted for context. I think it should be clear based on the lack of moderation in this thread until this point that respectful disagreements and discourse are completely fine.

What Alola was saying is that the issue begins when people retort with overly negative responses to opinions that were obviously going to be controversial in the first place.

 

[LazySpy]

It’s important to read the full sentence of what Alola had posted for context. I think it should be clear based on the lack of moderation in this thread until this point that respectful disagreements and discourse are completely fine.

What Alola was saying is that the issue begins when people retort with overly negative responses to opinions that were obviously going to be controversial in the first place.

So 'ew no' and 'you're wrong' are overly negative? Seriously? Why and since when?

 

[swiftgallade46]

So 'ew no' and 'you're wrong' are overly negative? Seriously? Why and since when?

Saying “ew no” in response to someone’s opinion is pretty clearly overly negative, yes. I don’t see any instance in which the latter phrase was even being discussed.

Anyway, I’d appreciate if any individual concerns were brought up with us privately to avoid derailing the thread any further. Discussing an in-thread announcement is one thing, but this is specific to a particular user(s). Thanks.

 

[Alola]

Whilst I completely understand what you are talking about/agree with the spirit of your post, isn't this exactly the thread in which to respectfully discuss such things? I know I have had a couple of very good debates here when my views have been respectfully challenged (emphasis on the respectful aspect of that lol). Of course if that is impossible to moderate and everyone else feels completely differently then that is fair enough and I too will toe the line, but this is a forum after all and I think we're all here because we want to talk about Pokemon, not just click likes on each other's posts.

Admittedly, I am having difficulty believing that you understood the spirit of my message when you quoted half of a sentence without the context of the full post. And from there, a sentiment has brewed that I am telling people they cannot have respectful disagreements in this thread.

First, let me apologize if I was unclear. I did not mean to say that users cannot discuss controversial opinions in this thread; in fact, this is my favorite thread in this section for the conversations that are had here.

Second, let me reiterate what I meant in the snippet of the post you quoted.

As I said before in my initial post, the "expectation is that users are respectful here with their comments, for their own posts and that to others." As in yes - users are allowed to respond to other users controversial opinions, provided they are kind and polite about it. I have and people have done so with me. I am not saying you cannot do so.

However. If someone posts a post that you innately disagree with (in the controversial opinion thread especially), that you have no intention of changing your mind on, that all you would be able to do is muster up a completely negative comment(s) under the veil of "I'm having a debate," then no - this is not the place for that. It offers nothing insightful or positive to the discussion aside from hurt feelings and an air of tension that may make users feel that they cannot share their opinions - in the thread specifically made for such opinions to be shared without such ire.

Furthermore, I'm seeing a lot of interchanging with "discussions" and "debates" along with their nature in a forum. Firstly, understand that a forum is a place to exchange ideas - that includes several types of representation to how that is done; it is not solely a place to debate someone's opinion. Secondly, debates are not interchangeable with discussions and my comment regarded the former. Several users like to veil attacks or rude comments under the guise of a "debate," where they have no intention of conceding or altering their opinion - that was what I was speaking to and what is not allowed here. I could have been more direct with that, and I apologize. That aside, I am saying it very clearly now - if you are going to "debate" someone, or you earnestly want to discuss their opinion with them, you need to do so with substance and respect; otherwise, don't.

I hope this clears up any confusion or misunderstandings of my post, along with the expectations we have here. I can see how a part of what I said could have come across that way and yes, I could have worded it better. However, I also recognize the importance of reading over an entire post or sentence for complete context and understanding.

 

[ii kanji]

@Alola sorry if it seemed I was having a go or intentionally misquoting you to make you look bad: I wasn't. I did read your entire post, but honestly it wasn't clear to me if the rules of engagement in this thread were changing as of your post. I was merely asking for clarification. Again, apologies for any offence inadvertently caused.

 

[Enzo]

....Well... that was definitely something wasn't it?

Anyways, I don't about you but Butch's eng dub voice is AWFUL imo. Not to throw shade to the voice actor, but who thought that giving him that ''old man who smoked cigarettes for 50 years'' voice was a good idea? I'm rewatching Sinnoh in the eng dub this time, and how did you guys even put up with that?

 

[RetroPokeFan]

....Well... that was definitely something wasn't it?

Anyways, I don't about you but Butch's eng dub voice is AWFUL imo. Not to throw shade to the voice actor, but who thought that giving him that ''old man who smoked cigarettes for 50 years'' voice was a good idea? I'm rewatching Sinnoh in the eng dub this time, and how did you guys even put up with that?

It didn't matter if it was Eric Stuart or James Carter Cathcart voicing him, I never thought Butch sounded right at all.

 

[ii kanji]

It was such a shock to me hearing Kosanji’s voice for the very first time, because he actually sounds kinda... sexy? Agree that B*tch is awful.

 

[Insanish Danish]

Not sure how controversial of an opinion that is, but YES. Butch's dub voice in both versions is AWFUL (although I think the second voice somehow managed to be even worse than the first, if that's possible). It is tragic because Butch and Cassidy have always been two of my favorite characters and most of their episodes are some of my favorites, but it's a challenge to watch them dubbed. His Japanese voice is fantastic, though.

 

[GalacticRonpa]

Kosaburou's English voice is so awfully cartoonish it could very well fit in any slapstick comedy show there is. Since I didn't grow with this particular dub I'm not sure what my opinion would be when I was 5, but it sure doesn't fit this show's tone.

He's not the only example, other COTDs from the Kanto era were also given bad voices (Fiorella Cappucino from the Princess' Day episode for example).

 

[nickdt]

You can say they Botch (Ed) its voice.

 

[Ryker101]

I guess this is more of a rant than just an opinion. I’ve wanted to say this for a while, so I’m sorry if I lose it here or come across as overly harsh or ignorant. I know this’ll probably get me into hot water but honestly I don’t care at this point. Anyways here goes nothing:

Spoiler: Rant

I just want to preface this with saying that you’re completely free to express your own opinion and there’s nothing wrong with that. I have no problem with criticising shows, movies, games, or anything of that sort really. I’m also not trying to target any specific users here, but just in general.

Ok so I’m sick of the anime and manga section here. The majority of people just keep complaining about the show over and over again. It’s not even that, but it’s usually the same people, talking about the same thing (ie goh, screentime, series structure) on threads that aren’t even related to it. A lot of people have also left altogether to make matters worse.

It’s one thing to criticise, mock or even dislike Journeys, but it’s another thing to actively hate the show whilst still being so engaged with it. This has to be my biggest gripe. Seriously, because I’ve seen posts where people are not just frustrated - they’re tired, sick of the show, would rather wish it became anything else, or are literally waiting for it to be over. Seriously, wtf. If you genuinely can’t stand Journeys and can’t go one goddamn second without criticising it in some way, then why on Earth are you still watching it? I normally hate bringing up this argument, but for your own sake- why are you still here? You’re so invested in something you hate. Why not just talk about something you like, check out other shows, head to a different section, or do literally anything else? This isn’t like most tv shows/movies/games that you are specifically paying for to watch (or at least I hope you’re not, cause you don’t have to). It’s not even made for your demographic. So imo there’s a point where you just either take it or leave it. It’s baffling to me that someone would consistently watch a show that they have so many problems with in the first place. Yet that’s what I’ve seen on a regular basis here. I swear some people are acting like someone’s pointed a gun to their head and will pull the trigger if they ever stop watching it. This is way past the ‘so bad it’s good’ stage, the tone in most of the section here is so, depressing.

Please, I’m not saying you have to be head over heels for Journeys and worship the damn show, but maybe just take a break from it? Or at least keep your criticisms for the threads they’re designed for, rather than derailing stuff like the preview thread episode 60 (this is just one example) which honestly has nothing to do with it. Do we seriously have to criticise every little thing the show does wrong? It sounds like a broken record at this point. We get it. Goh’s goal is badly written, screentime for pokemon and characters is a mess, PWC is rushed, it’s not taking advantage of its region hopping premise. Now can we move on please, and just talk about the episodes at hand without constantly dragging this stuff into it? I’m tired of seeing the same complaints over and over again.

It hurts man. It hurts joining a community because you like a show and want to talk about it, only to see most people shooting it down every time. I like Journeys, it’s not perfect but the pros outweigh the cons for me. But it feels like every time I log onto here, all the fun and enjoyment I’m having with the show starts getting sucked out. It’s just draining to be on here at this point. Apparently things have been like this since the SM anime (or even longer). I just can’t help but wonder how this is fun, or even remotely satisfying for anyone. Cause the people posting things like ‘I’m so done with Journeys’ and ‘This whole show is about Goh now’ sure as hell don’t look like they’re having a good time. The weird thing to me is that, the reception for sword and shield is fairly positive on here (even if I’m not a massive fan of those games) but the anime is so passionately hated.

I’m just done with this section honestly. Things can be bad enough as is and I’m really annoyed that a place you’d normally use for escapism or even just having fun is so sour and a buzzkill. I think I’ll just stick to the video games section for a while. Unless it’s a farfetch’d episode obviously.

 

[swiftgallade46]

I guess this is more of a rant than just an opinion. I’ve wanted to say this for a while, so I’m sorry if I lose it here or come across as overly harsh or ignorant. I know this’ll probably get me into hot water but honestly I don’t care this point. Anyways here goes nothing:

Spoiler: Rant

I just want to preface this with saying that you’re completely free to express your own opinion and there’s nothing wrong with that. I have no problem with criticising shows, movies, games, or anything of that sort really. I’m also not trying to target any specific users here, but just in general.

Ok so I’m sick of the anime and manga section here. The majority of people just keep complaining about the show over and over again. It’s not even that, but it’s usually the same people, talking about the same thing (ie goh, screentime, series structure) on threads that aren’t even related to it. A lot of people have also left altogether to make matters worse.

It’s one thing to criticise, mock or even dislike Journeys, but it’s another thing to actively hate the show whilst still being so engaged with it. This has to be my biggest gripe. Seriously, because I’ve seen posts where people are not just frustrated - they’re tired, sick of the show, would rather wish it became anything else, or are
literally waiting for it to be over. Seriously, wtf. If you genuinely can’t stand Journeys and can’t go one goddamn second without criticising it in some way, then why on Earth are you still watching it? I normally hate bringing up this argument, but for your own sake- why are you still here? You’re so invested in something you hate. Why not just talk about something you like, check out other shows, head to a different section, or literally anything else? This isn’t like most tv shows/movies/games that you are specifically paying for to watch (or at least I hope you’re not, cause you don’t have to). It’s not even made for your demographic. So imo there’s a point where you just either take it or leave it. It’s baffling to me that someone would consistently watch a show that they have so many problems with in the first place. Yet that’s what I’ve seen on a regular basis here. It’s just baffling to me, I swear some people are acting like someone’s pointed a gun to their head and will pull the trigger if they ever stop watching it. This is way past the ‘so bad it’s good’ stage, the tone in most of the section here is so, depressing.

Please, I’m not saying you have to be head over heels for Journeys and worship the damn show, but maybe just take a break from it? Or at least keep your criticisms for the threads they’re designed for, rather than derailing stuff like the preview thread episode 60 (this is just one example) which honestly has nothing to do with it. Do we seriously have to criticise every little thing the show does wrong? It sounds like a broken record at this point. We get it. Goh’s goal is badly written, screentime for pokemon and characters is a mess, PWC is rushed, it’s not taking advantage of its region hopping premise. Now can we move on please, and just talk about the episodes at hand without constantly dragging this stuff into it? I’m tired of seeing the same complaints over and over again.

It hurts man. It hurts joining a community because you like a show and want to talk about it, only to see most people shooting it down every time. I like Journeys, it’s not perfect but the pros outweigh the cons for me. But it feels like every time I log onto here, all the fun and enjoyment I’m having with the show starts getting sucked out. It’s just draining to be on here at this point. Apparently things have been like this since the SM anime (or even longer). I just can’t help but wonder how this is fun, or even remotely satisfying for anyone. Cause the people posting things like ‘I’m so done with Journeys’ and ‘This whole show is about Goh now’ sure as hell don’t look like they’re having a good time. The weird thing to me is that, the reception for sword and shield is fairly positive on here (even if I’m not a massive fan of those games) but the anime is so passionately hated.

I’m just done with this section honestly. Things can be bad enough as is and I’m really annoyed that a place you’d normally use for escapism or even just having fun is so sour and a buzzkill. I think I’ll just stick to the video games section for a while. Unless it’s a farfetch’d episode obviously.

Pretty much my sentiments exactly. I think many people have a passion for the show and are pained to see it go through such a rough patch (in their opinion), so that explains why they wouldn’t simply stop watching or take a break. Personally, it’s not my favorite series, but I do enjoy it and think that it’s far from the worst.

Sometimes, though, it just feels like the negative opinions are so prevalent that people just go along with it because it appears to be the prevailing opinion rather than coming up with their own thoughts independently. I’m sure there are plenty of people with positive feedback who are afraid to post their thoughts for fear of being met with a mountain of quoted replies arguing with them.

This isn’t to discredit those who are genuinely just sharing their criticisms of the show, but I just feel like too often it’s taken beyond criticism and things just go too far. Plus, I feel like people are just so nit-picky about the series and many also appear to have a lot of negative bias surrounding Goh.

It can get tiring, but I hope people who still enjoy the series know that there are still plenty of others who do as well and don’t get too discouraged.

And, again, I have total respect for people who point out genuine flaws in the show (it certainly ain’t perfect). It’s just that those people often seem to get lost among the throng of voices from those who aren’t being as genuine.

 

[KyseL]

I guess this is more of a rant than just an opinion. I’ve wanted to say this for a while, so I’m sorry if I lose it here or come across as overly harsh or ignorant. I know this’ll probably get me into hot water but honestly I don’t care at this point. Anyways here goes nothing:

Spoiler: Rant

I just want to preface this with saying that you’re completely free to express your own opinion and there’s nothing wrong with that. I have no problem with criticising shows, movies, games, or anything of that sort really. I’m also not trying to target any specific users here, but just in general.

Ok so I’m sick of the anime and manga section here. The majority of people just keep complaining about the show over and over again. It’s not even that, but it’s usually the same people, talking about the same thing (ie goh, screentime, series structure) on threads that aren’t even related to it. A lot of people have also left altogether to make matters worse.

It’s one thing to criticise, mock or even dislike Journeys, but it’s another thing to actively hate the show whilst still being so engaged with it. This has to be my biggest gripe. Seriously, because I’ve seen posts where people are not just frustrated - they’re tired, sick of the show, would rather wish it became anything else, or are literally waiting for it to be over. Seriously, wtf. If you genuinely can’t stand Journeys and can’t go one goddamn second without criticising it in some way, then why on Earth are you still watching it? I normally hate bringing up this argument, but for your own sake- why are you still here? You’re so invested in something you hate. Why not just talk about something you like, check out other shows, head to a different section, or do literally anything else? This isn’t like most tv shows/movies/games that you are specifically paying for to watch (or at least I hope you’re not, cause you don’t have to). It’s not even made for your demographic. So imo there’s a point where you just either take it or leave it. It’s baffling to me that someone would consistently watch a show that they have so many problems with in the first place. Yet that’s what I’ve seen on a regular basis here. I swear some people are acting like someone’s pointed a gun to their head and will pull the trigger if they ever stop watching it. This is way past the ‘so bad it’s good’ stage, the tone in most of the section here is so, depressing.

Please, I’m not saying you have to be head over heels for Journeys and worship the damn show, but maybe just take a break from it? Or at least keep your criticisms for the threads they’re designed for, rather than derailing stuff like the preview thread episode 60 (this is just one example) which honestly has nothing to do with it. Do we seriously have to criticise every little thing the show does wrong? It sounds like a broken record at this point. We get it. Goh’s goal is badly written, screentime for pokemon and characters is a mess, PWC is rushed, it’s not taking advantage of its region hopping premise. Now can we move on please, and just talk about the episodes at hand without constantly dragging this stuff into it? I’m tired of seeing the same complaints over and over again.

It hurts man. It hurts joining a community because you like a show and want to talk about it, only to see most people shooting it down every time. I like Journeys, it’s not perfect but the pros outweigh the cons for me. But it feels like every time I log onto here, all the fun and enjoyment I’m having with the show starts getting sucked out. It’s just draining to be on here at this point. Apparently things have been like this since the SM anime (or even longer). I just can’t help but wonder how this is fun, or even remotely satisfying for anyone. Cause the people posting things like ‘I’m so done with Journeys’ and ‘This whole show is about Goh now’ sure as hell don’t look like they’re having a good time. The weird thing to me is that, the reception for sword and shield is fairly positive on here (even if I’m not a massive fan of those games) but the anime is so passionately hated.

I’m just done with this section honestly. Things can be bad enough as is and I’m really annoyed that a place you’d normally use for escapism or even just having fun is so sour and a buzzkill. I think I’ll just stick to the video games section for a while. Unless it’s a farfetch’d episode obviously.

I think it's fair to criticize a show you care about, but a lot of the "criticism" I see being thrown around when it comes to this series in particular feels way off the mark. It's like they don't want the show to be better; what they want is for the show to fit their idea of what the show should be and that's the main issue here.