Controversial opinions

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I've been watching the show subbed since Diamond and Pearl but I've been watching all of the Advanced episodes that I previously missed. I gotta say, I really miss the old dub cast. I could never get use to the new one (though admittedly I did prefer Brock's 2nd voice.) Also yes, the absolute biggest pet peeve I have with the dub besides cultural censorship that borderlines on xenophobic is the awful music that they use. Shinji Miyazaki's score never should've been replaced.

To me, the dub music quality downgraded dramatically starting from BW.

 

[Yami-no-Game]

I've recently been thinking about how I don't respect Team Rocket even on the rare times when they do good deeds because their bad deeds outweigh their heroic moments. And it bothers me alot that I can't be a fan of them precisely because they have so much duality to them. I hate characters who are both bad and good because it makes it hard for me to relate to them on a personal level.

This is so something a bit more ''meta'': I don't mind dubbed anime. It's not just about Pokemon, but others as well. I genuinely don't mind it. I actually prefer the dub, because I can understand what they are saying right away. I do agree the dub can take some good stuff out however, like the music for example.

I haven't really seen this one in the Pokemon fandom, but the way others believe firmly that they are better than other people because they watch the original/japanese version is so... ??? Like,,, good for you I guess? I swear you are not special.

I've never seen anyone around here brag about watching the subbed anime per say but I do personally give people the side-eye when they admit that they watch the English dub because to me it's such an objectively inferior product. And I'm not just talking about the way certain lines are translated or when things get edited out - to me the English voice actors are just so subpar overall and very few of them have a firm grasp on their characters the way that the Japanese voice actors do.

Being able to understand the English dub without reading subtitles is literally the only upside to watching the dub, but since it comes at the cost of music changes, edits, subpar voice acting & mediocre dialogue, I unfortunately won't ever be able to see eye to eye with dub watchers.

 

[KyseL]

This is so something a bit more ''meta'': I don't mind dubbed anime. It's not just about Pokemon, but others as well. I genuinely don't mind it. I actually prefer the dub, because I can understand what they are saying right away. I do agree the dub can take some good stuff out however, like the music for example.

I haven't really seen this one in the Pokemon fandom, but the way others believe firmly that they are better than other people because they watch the original/japanese version is so... ??? Like,,, good for you I guess? I swear you are not special.

I don't mind watching other shows dubbed as much as I do with Pokémon. I can't pinpoint exactly whether it's the acting or the directing, or a combination of both, but when it comes to anime dubs this franchise in particular feels terribly subpar.

 

[Enzo]

I've never seen anyone around here brag about watching the subbed anime per say but I do personally give people the side-eye when they admit that they watch the English dub because to me it's such an objectively inferior product. And I'm not just talking about the way certain lines are translated or when things get edited out - to me the English voice actors are just so subpar overall and very few of them have a firm grasp on their characters the way that the Japanese voice actors do.

Being able to understand the English dub without reading subtitles is literally the only upside to watching the dub, but since it comes at the cost of music changes, edits, subpar voice acting & mediocre dialogue, I unfortunately won't ever be able to see eye to eye with dub watchers.

Aaand my point was proven lol.

 

[skiittylalis]

personally i dont mind watching pokemon dubbed and in some cases i prefer it..... i grew up with the dub in the dp-bw era so maybe its a nostalgia thing?? but when i watch thoses series subbed it doesnt feel right to me anymore and its kinda nice to sit back and watch the action without reading subtitles. sometimes you just wanna chill and be lazy when watching pocket monsters

anything past bw (xy-present) is borderline impossible for me to watched dubbed tho. not that its bad or anything because the voice actors are clearly talented but iirc xy was when they started mass introducing the clearly beloved goldfarb music (which in itself isnt the worst music ive heard but its still a VERY obvious downgrade from the og broadcast) and when the staff forewent any logic of what music conveys which mood and where to put it. tho at the end of the day it really just boils down to personal preference. as long as you get enjoyment from the show it doesnt matter HOW you get that enjoyment right?? if only more people understood that

 

[swiftgallade46]

I've never seen anyone around here brag about watching the subbed anime per say but I do personally give people the side-eye when they admit that they watch the English dub because to me it's such an objectively inferior product.

You didn’t really mention anything in your post that wasn’t either subjective or speculative, though. Even in this sentence you admit that this is just your opinion by saying “to me”. Which is fine, but it doesn’t by any means correlate to the dub being objectively inferior.

 

[FelipePR]

You didn’t really mention anything in your post that wasn’t either subjective or speculative, though. Even in this sentence you admit that this is just your opinion by saying “to me”. Which is fine, but it doesn’t by any means correlate to the dub being objectively inferior.

Well, is it a topic to express your personal controversial opinion, not ?

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

I tend to prefer watching the dub, but the music choices bother me. Like it tends to add no flavor. Like Pikachu vs. Tapu Koko got this absolute banger of a song to wrap it up in the original, but the dub uses this bland music that doesn't fit the scene. I remember Ash-Greninja vs. Mega Sceptile had the awesome instrumental version of the XYZ theme, but the dub had this bland music that didn't get you hyped.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

I never understood the dubs vs subs debates nor the rampant elitism and snobbish behavior that tends to accompany them. Then again, I personally have never had any preference and generally just watch whichever format is most readily available for me. There are definite advantages to both: on one hand subs allows you to listen to the characters in their native language which does feel a great deal more natural, but on the other hand dubs allow you to better pay attention to the animation since you don't have to constantly switch back and forth between actually watching and reading the subtitles so you can understand what the characters are saying (of course, this point doesn't apply to fans who actually understand Japanese fluently). Just let people watch whichever one they prefer and never mind how they do it. The world isn't gonna explode over something as simple as some people not wanting to read subtitles all the time. Live and let live.

 

[swiftgallade46]

Well, is it a topic to express your personal controversial opinion, not ?

?? The controversial opinion that was expressed was that someone preferred the dub to the sub, and I was responding to someone who was saying otherwise. Not only that, but what I said in no way implied that the user I was responding to couldn’t express their opinion so I’m really not sure what your angle is here lol.

 

[FelipePR]

What I mean is that the user was expressing its subjective, controversial and personal opinion in a topic rightly intended for that purpose. As you said, the user even pointed out that as its particular opinion. Then, although I don't agree with the opinion referenced, and believe that the user lacked tact in its argument, your post looks a bit redundant, if not repressive for the wrong reasons.

Then, I ask again, what is your angle here ?

 

[swiftgallade46]

What I mean is that the user was expressing its subjective, controversial and personal opinion in a topic rightly intended for that purpose. As you said, the user even pointed out that as its particular opinion. Then, although I don't agree with the opinion referenced, and believe that the user lacked tact in its argument, your post looks a bit redundant, if not repressive for the wrong reasons.

Then, I asked and ask again, what is your angle here ?

No, lol. Someone else was expressing their controversial opinion. Then they were met with “No, the sub is objectively better”. Which is wrong. There is nothing redundant about pointing that out. The thread isn’t “express your opinion and then no one gets to respond”. As long as someone replies reasonably, it’s totally fine. Claiming your opinion as objective fact isn’t reasonable.

 

[Yami-no-Game]

Aaand my point was proven lol.

What point? Because I was mainly responding to the part where you made that incredible leap of logic by claiming that you think some fans believe "firmly that they are better than other people because they watch the original/japanese version." I gave my take on the situation by pointing out the down side of watching the dub and why I don't think the ends justify the means, but I didn't say nor imply that I think I'm better than dub viewers.

It's kind of messed up to assume that watchers of the sub have some sort of superiority complex; there's a difference between saying that the sub is superior, and people believing that they themselves are superior for liking it. I also find it ironic that I'm being attacked for replying to you (not by you of course). It's disappointing that fans like to gang up on others - I would expect that kind of thing from Twitter users, not by people here.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

What point? Because I was mainly responding to the part where you made that incredible leap of logic by claiming that you think some fans believe "firmly that they are better than other people because they watch the original/japanese version." I gave my take on the situation by pointing out the down side of watching the dub and why I don't think the ends justify the means, but I didn't say nor imply that I think I'm better than dub viewers.

It's kind of messed up to assume that watchers of the sub have some sort of superiority complex; there's a difference between saying that the sub is superior, and people believing that they themselves are superior for liking it. I also find it ironic that I'm being attacked for replying to you (not by you of course). It's disappointing that fans like to gang up on others - I would expect that kind of thing from Twitter users, not by people here.

Um...no offense but you literally said this:

I do personally give people the side-eye when they admit that they watch the English dub

Maybe you didn't mean that in a demeaning manner, but your wording here makes it seem like to some extent you do indeed look down on people who watch the English dub, what with you openly admitting to "giving them the side-eye" and all. Yes, it's understandable that to you the upside of being able to better understand the characters doesn't make up for the changes in music and voice acting and such, but you should be more accepting of the fact that to other people this very well might be the exact opposite. You also need to keep in mind that there are viewers who genuinely can't watch subs properly for various reasons, such as say, being dyslexic or slow readers. To people with such conditions, it's much more practical to watch a dubbed product because having to continually pause an episode to read the dialogue is frustrating and time consuming and I imagine takes away from the enjoyment. But even if there's someone who isn't dyslexic or a slow reader and watches the dub... so what? No, really. Who or what exactly is getting hurt here because some people watch dubs? Because unless there happens to be some serious detriment to watching dubs over subs that isn't entirely based on the rather subjective "the music/voice acting is better in Japanese" point, I don't see what exactly is so terrible about watching the dub. You just continue to enjoy the subs and never mind that other people don't watch them. They do them, and you do you.

I don't mind watching other shows dubbed as much as I do with Pokémon. I can't pinpoint exactly whether it's the acting or the directing, or a combination of both, but when it comes to anime dubs this franchise in particular feels terribly subpar.

If I were to make a guess, it might be because of the changes that the Pokemon anime makes in things like the music or character's names, which is not something that happens in other dubbed works (or at least it doesn't happen as much anymore, because those practices of altering the music and such were much more common back in the 90s and early 2000s): Funimation for example literally doesn't change anything but the voice acting in their dubs, to the point that even the intros and outros stay in Japanese.

 

[Yami-no-Game]

Maybe you didn't mean that in a demeaning manner, but your wording here makes it seem like to some extent you do indeed look down on people who watch the English dub, what with you openly admitting to "giving them the side-eye" and all.

Giving someone the side-eye doesn't mean that you think you're better than them nor is it demeaning either. Giving someone the side-eye just means that I don't agree with them or that I think that what they've said is strange, and I already clarified why I had such a big problem with that person's claim that sub watchers are haughty or superior.


If someone was confused about the terminology that I used then they could've just asked for clarification. But I do apologize for using the word "objectively." I forgot that that word doesn't work around here because of all the differing opinions and whatnot.

 

[Phosphene]

Giving someone the side-eye doesn't mean that you think you're better than them nor is it demeaning either. Giving someone the side-eye just means that I don't agree with them or that I think that what they've said is strange

Side-eye can also mean disapproval or scorn. Per Merrim-Webster’s definition:

a sidelong glance or gaze especially when expressing scorn, suspicion, disapproval, or veiled curiosity

While the last part does involve curiosity, the rest of the definition is negative and I’ve honestly only seen side-eye used in a negative, judgmental content and never to just refer to curiosity or simple disagreement; it certainly carries a negative connotation. Even the two examples the dictionary gives are in a negative context. So I can understand why @Ghost Diplocaulus misinterpreted what you wrote.

Edit: Also, one could argue that finding people who watch the dub strange is still demeaning or at the very least judgmental.

 

[Enzo]

What point? Because I was mainly responding to the part where you made that incredible leap of logic by claiming that you think some fans believe "firmly that they are better than other people because they watch the original/japanese version." I gave my take on the situation by pointing out the down side of watching the dub and why I don't think the ends justify the means, but I didn't say nor imply that I think I'm better than dub viewers.

It's kind of messed up to assume that watchers of the sub have some sort of superiority complex; there's a difference between saying that the sub is superior, and people believing that they themselves are superior for liking it. I also find it ironic that I'm being attacked for replying to you (not by you of course). It's disappointing that fans like to gang up on others - I would expect that kind of thing from Twitter users, not by people here.

First of all, no, people are not ''ganging up on you'' cuz two people pointed out a flaw in your logic.

Second, I'm dying that you claimed that I ''made an leap of logic'' by saying that some people do think of themselves being better than others cuz they watch the sub instead of the dub (if you claim this, you were clearly not in other communities), and then you proceed to prove my point by doing exactly what I said:

I do personally give people the side-eye when they admit that they watch the English dub

I unfortunately won't ever be able to see eye to eye with dub watchers.

Even if it wasn't your intention, I'm sorry, but you set yourself up fot this one.

 

[Okido]

You also need to keep in mind that there are viewers who genuinely can't watch subs properly for various reasons, such as say, being dyslexic or slow readers. To people with such conditions, it's much more practical to watch a dubbed product because having to continually pause an episode to read the dialogue is frustrating and time consuming and I imagine takes away from the enjoyment.

It's good to see someone else acknowledge this point, as I'm dyslexic myself. As much as I do enjoy watching subbed stuff, it is noticeably harder to keep up with at times due to that. Sometimes I just don't feel like expending (or outright can't expend) my energy on rewinding every few seconds to absorb what was just said.

Everyone has their reasons. Like you said, if someone only watches the dub out of personal preference, no harm done at all. At the same time, it's also important to keep in mind when talking about this that watching dubbed media can be easier on people who are dyslexic or have ADHD too.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

Giving someone the side-eye doesn't mean that you think you're better than them nor is it demeaning either. Giving someone the side-eye just means that I don't agree with them or that I think that what they've said is strange, and I already clarified why I had such a big problem with that person's claim that sub watchers are haughty or superior.


If someone was confused about the terminology that I used then they could've just asked for clarification. But I do apologize for using the word "objectively." I forgot that that word doesn't work around here because of all the differing opinions and whatnot.

Ah, alright. I don't usually see the phrase "giving the side-eye" in a neutral context; usually it's negative. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

 

[swiftgallade46]

I also find it ironic that I'm being attacked for replying to you (not by you of course). It's disappointing that fans like to gang up on others - I would expect that kind of thing from Twitter users, not by people here.

Prefacing this with two things:
a) I respect your opinion that the sub is better
b) Agreed that having this opinion does not inherently mean you are claiming to be superior
And, ftr, I had never claimed anything to the contrary.
I wasn’t attacking you. I very simply pointed out that using the word “objective” wasn’t appropriate since these are opinions. You’ve apologized for this, so no reason to keep discussing. I only brought it up again to address the “attacked” bit and the comparison to Twitter. That’s just not what went on here.

But I do apologize for using the word "objectively." I forgot that that word doesn't work around here because of all the differing opinions and whatnot.

Differing opinions occur almost everywhere. Even if you’re in an isolated place where everyone agrees, an opinion does not become objective fact. But I appreciate the apology. Like I said, I do respect your point of view as well.