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Controversial opinions

Now, all of that said, I do feel like people are being too harsh on Greninja: I mean, it's not the poor frog's fault that the Charizard species has Plot Armor stronger than adamantium. Seriously, these days if you want to beat a Charizard in the anime, you need to be either a Legendary/Mythical or another Charizard. Be literally anything else and you're automatically gonna lose if you're up against a Charizard.
Certainly I think Greninja is more deserving of pity than censure.
Although joking aside I think it's less that Greninja lost because he fought Charizard and more that they sent a Charizard because Ash was not allowed to win, so to speak.

I have a gut feeling in the alternate timelines where Ash won Kalos Alain either didn't enter the league or had some other 'mon as his ace.
 
Certainly I think Greninja is more deserving of pity than censure.
Although joking aside I think it's less that Greninja lost because he fought Charizard and more that they sent a Charizard because Ash was not allowed to win, so to speak.

I have a gut feeling in the alternate timelines where Ash won Kalos Alain either didn't enter the league or had some other 'mon as his ace.
Kiawe’s Charizard should have battled Ash in the Alola League then.
Watch Pikachu beat Leon’s Charizard. I love Ash’s Charizard but the Charizard shilling is ridiculous.
 
Are you joking or?

No i am not joking. The Ace in Pokemon is generally considered the one who has the most impact on a gym and league run. Considering Talonflame fought in every gym (Except for one and compared to Greninja's 3) and didn't go down in a gym without taking another mon with it (Except for one). The same goes the league. Talonflame didn't go down in the league without taking down another mon with it.

So Talonflame has had way more impact in the Kalos gym and league run than Greninja in its entirety, ergo, Talonflame is the ace.

Talonflame is also the only other mon besides Pikachu who has participated in the most gym matches in its respective region.
 
Now, all of that said, I do feel like people are being too harsh on Greninja: I mean, it's not the poor frog's fault that the Charizard species has Plot Armor stronger than adamantium. Seriously, these days if you want to beat a Charizard in the anime, you need to be either a Legendary/Mythical or another Charizard. Be literally anything else and you're automatically gonna lose if you're up against a Charizard.
Or Ash's Dusk Form Lycanroc
 
Well, to be fair, Blaziken's win happened before the Era of Charizard Glorification, so who knows if it would actually win in this day and age.
Literally the previous battle Charizard solo'd half of Gary's team so if this was previous glorification era that gives you a idea of how bad it is now lmao
 
Or Ash's Dusk Form Lycanroc
And even then, Dusk Lycanroc had a quadruple type advantage and was a young Pokemon in his prime fighting an elderly Charizard. Even with those advantages Lycanroc still only barely won, basically all but confirming that a Kiawe's Charizard in peak condition would have steamrolled the doggo.

Literally the previous battle Charizard solo'd half of Gary's team so if this was previous glorification era that gives you a idea of how bad it is now lmao
True, but to be fair, that kind of feat is pretty par for the course for the regional aces in general (Infernape would go on to do the exact same thing, for instance), so that was less glorification of a single species and more just standard ace protagonism. Not to mention, that was Ash's Charizard, who is literally the only Charizard who actually earned his power through hard work and sweat and tears and even had to be humbled quite a few times. Other Charizards could still be canon fodder: in the Johto saga one was defeated by Ash's Totodile (a basic stage mon who was also Ash's weakest Johto starter by a noticeable margin), and later in Hoenn another one lost to Ash's Glalie (a Pokemon with a type disadvantage), so the species in general wasn't portrayed as inherently demigodlike.

Now flash-forward to the end of Gen 5 and we have Origins straight up hitting every other Pokemon with the Nerf Stick to glitter up Red's Charizard, then Alain's Charizard's "training" consisted of it curbstomping every other Mega in existence because anything that isn't the perfect Mega Charizard X is just pathetic worthless riff-raff, and now we have Leon as the strongest trainer in the world who has literally never lost a single battle with his ace being a Charizard, meaning that the strongest Pokemon in the world is, you guessed it, a Charizard.

I feel bad for Ash's Charizard, honestly. Like, what even was the point of him having to go through all that crap to become as good as he is now if apparently every other Charizard now is OP just by virtue of being Charizards?
 
Oh, don't get me wrong: Sparky and Chloe are way worse.

But Poof still had it's issues to me, and Grookey's overall narrative role is a little too similiar to his for my comfort.
Poof at least... Did things. Like, he had quite a few focus episodes. In fact, there was even serial stuff with Foop and the Harry Potter ripoff and such, which is noteworthy because it's a very episodic show. Iirc he even started talking just before they completely scrapped him (and Sparky) to make space for the somehow even worse character who shall not be named.

Grookey literally does nothing. It has no focus episodes, no development, no part in any episode's plot beyond a 1-second scene of kickstarting a conflict that could've been done in a billion other ways, it doesn't even use moves which is literally what makes Pokemon Pokemon. Like, Poof sucks but at least he waves his Wand from time to time like Fairies are supposed to do. What exactly makes Grookey different than a real-world monkey that someone painted green? The only thing is that it can grow plants, and even this was only done like 3 times.
Grooky is quite literally the "monkey sidekick" gag but unironically.
 
It is noticeable whoever Ash's main pokemon is gets a lot of hate each gen and it always feels like strange fan backlash.

Ash's Charizard did get some hate back in the day, Infernape was sometimes blamed for the rest of Ash's team particularly Torterra and Buizel/Staraptor/Gliscor from taking a backseat in the latter half of DP, Greninja as explained constantly, then Lycanroc/Torracat and now Lucario.

I think the only one who never received any fan backlash was Sceptile and that's probably because during AG it received no hype or promotion from the writers. Grovyle didn't even evolve until after the Hoenn league and during BF it doesn't have that many feats. It basically came before the writers started hyping things up like they did from DP onward
 
Oh, don't get me wrong: Sparky and Chloe are way worse.

But Poof still had it's issues to me, and Grookey's overall narrative role is a little too similiar to his for my comfort.
Poof at least... Did things. Like, he had quite a few focus episodes. In fact, there was even serial stuff with Foop and the Harry Potter ripoff and such, which is noteworthy because it's a very episodic show. Iirc he even started talking just before they completely scrapped him (and Sparky) to make space for the somehow even worse character who shall not be named.


As far as I'm concerned I think we can ALL agree Fairy Odd Parents ended with Channel Chasers like it should've?
 
Okay, since the Poof/Grookey comparasion was reignited, I think it's finally time for me to write my thesis on where these characters converge.

For those who didn't watched the series, Timmy Turner is a young boy who was granted two Fairy Godparents to make him happy. These Fairies have the ability to transform reality to whatever their assigned desires. So, after a while of the series run, they decided to make Poof, who's the biological child of Cosmo and Wanda, Timmy's Fairies.

One of the biggest things about Poof is because one of his biggest points was to be what I like to call the ''cutie-patootie-plushy'' type of character. He was created to be a cute, marketable character to be used to attract audiences and make them buy toys. Therefore, it was never supposed to grow up, and please, keep this on the back of your head, I will come back to this point soon.

You see, we learn in the series that fairy babies, even as infants, already have the same power levels of an adult fairy, this meaning that Poof was just as capable of distorting reality at will as were the others of it's kind. And well... I don't think I need to explain why a baby having reality-wrapping powers is not a good thing and the perfect recipe for disaster, do I?

And then we come faced with what is arguably the largest problem regarding Poof: how exactly do you write a baby? Especially, may I add, a baby who's not supposed/allowed to grow up at all?

This was the moment where the series writers realized they could use Poof's unstable and unpredictable powers on their advantages. Instead of having to come up with plots to explain why certain events happened and bothering to write their solutions, they used Poof. He was the perfect plot device for the series. You didn't had to create an entire plot line to explain why X thing occcured: it's all Poof! And to solve it just as esily, since you can just regard the solution to Poof undoing what he did on his own just as quickly as the problem came to be.

And this is where Grookey reminds me of Poof. The monkey's ultimate narrative job is to create problems to kickstart conflicts in eps, how we saw in the Gengar eps and in the Falinks one. This all without counting the fact that Grookey is also used to be a ''cutie-patootie-plushy'' character like Poof was, since it's meant to be thought of as ''cute'' and ''adorable'', and it's even used in multiple shots and promotional material alongside Pikachu and Eeevee. (Also, am I the only one who noticied that Grookey is the Galar starter who looks the most like Pikachu in shape and size?? Suspicious if you'd ask me.) And the fact that Grookey is not supposed to evolve in all senses of the word.

Frankly, I actually think the monkey is arguably a worse version of Poof, since the baby at least did something here and there and was a bit cute, which are two things Grookey neither did or is.
 
I think that making comparisons between Anime and those animations from the west....

Is very and truly insulting to the former, the latter are never good and lack any quality.

There is no point in making these analogies.
 
This actually reminds me, but is it really necessary for Ash to have an "ace pokemon" for each saga? The only thing I see that comes from this term is pointless arguments and speculation over how majority of Ash's "aces" hogged spotlight and development from their teammates or debates about which "ace" is stronger than the other. It's a pretty baseless term in which the only time I've ever seen an "ace pokemon" be looked at fondly is Ash's Sceptile, but there isn't any specifications for why he's considered one of Ash's aces in the first place, so...why does this term exist? It's like the term "shillmon": a term that feels entirely up to a single person's opinion without any real specifications behind it.

Is very and truly insulting to the former, the latter are never good and lack any quality.
That's a really broad statement. I can think of plenty of animations from the west that have actual love put into its production and plenty of anime that are written by incredibly lazy writers. There is nothing wrong with comparing them either, because interesting conclusions can be drawn from it that helps put things into perspective about media. I personally love comparing Eastern and Western animation, because there's so many differences that can still produce the same results of either pulling in an audience or pushing them away.
 
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Is very and truly insulting to the former, the latter are never good and lack any quality.
Hey, just because you prefer Anime to Western cartoons doesn't mean the latter are objectively bad. Nor does it mean that the former are flawless for that matter.

Also, what exactly do you mean by "quality" here?

Writing quality? Because lots of anime have plenty of issues there: I mean, Pokemon here is an anime and people are constantly pointing out the issues in its writing both here and in other forums. And that's just one example, as virtually every anime out there has its critics who will point out the flaws in its writing. Similarly there's planty of Western cartoons that have been widely acclaimed for their writing and storytelling. TL;DR, well-written anime and cartoons are just as aboundant as badly-written ones.

Art style quality? Oh, sure, Western cartoons do certainly gravitate towards much simpler designs compared to Japanese anime, but there's actually a very good reason for it: simple desings are much, MUCH easier to animate fluidly than complex ones, and the more complex a design is, the more expensive and time consuming it becomes to animate, and since shows are on a tight schedule and budget, corners WILL be cut, so the choice is usually between simple designs with fluid animation or complex designs with stilted animation. The latter is virtually never desirable, so Western cartoons tend to deal with it by just making their designs simple while anime deals with it by either having most of their scenes consisting of characters doing simple movements and only truly going all out with the fluidity during big action scenes that more than likely ate up half the show's budget and the animators' efforts and sanity (Dragon Ball Z was probably the biggest offender, as the show's fights were infamously like 90% characters bragging about how strong they were and powering up to their next form while everyone stood completely still gawking in horror, and 10% actual fighting), or by constantly breaking the character designs to the point that they look downright ridiculous and off-model (the most notorious example I can think of being the infamous Naruto vs Pain fight). TL; DR animation practically requires shortcuts, and they WILL be taken regardless of what side of the Pacific the animation originates from. And there's no right or wrong way to do this.
 
Also, what exactly do you mean by "quality" here?
Humour/Comedy quality, actually.

Cartoons had never made me laugh, cringe at the dreadful overuse of running gags instead.

I prefer puns or wordplays, and also the well-timed slapstick that doesn't become abuse.
 
Humour/Comedy quality, actually.

Cartoons had never made me laugh, cringe at the dreadful overuse of running gags instead.

I prefer puns or wordplays, and also the well-timed slapstick that doesn't become abuse.
To me that sounds more like you just don't like the Western style of comedy compared to the Eastern one, which is less of an indicator of Western cartoons being bad and more that ut's just not your taste. I mean, saying that Western cartoons are inherently lacking in quality because you don't like how they do comedy would be like me saying that Italian food is objectively bad just because Italian cuisine isn't my taste.

Also, plenty of Western cartoons include puns and slapstick (I mean, the Western-originating Looney Tunes are the ones who freaking pioneered slapstick comedy for crying out loud) and plenty of anime relies on running gags for its comedy: I mean, Pokemon is an anime and it's got running gags for days such as Team Rocket blasting off, Piplup getting hit by Draco Meteor, Rowlett falling asleep at the most inconvenient times, Oshawott stealing food, and whatever the hell Grookey's supposed to be doing.
 
(Dragon Ball Z was probably the biggest offender, as the show's fights were infamously like 90% characters bragging about how strong they were and powering up to their next form while everyone stood completely still gawking in horror, and 10% actual fighting)
I'm having a nightmare flashback to the Freeza fight.
It wasn't that bad before Namek, but afterwards...

I personally love comparing Eastern and Western animation, because there's so many differences that can still produce the same results of either pulling in an audience or pushing them away.
Some things in particular invite comparison: Meowth was inspired by Muttley from Hanna-Barbera's Wacky Races, for instance, though by late Kanto he'd spun off into a very different character.
 
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I'm having a nightmare flashback to the Freeza fight.
It wasn't that bad before Namek, but afterwards...
Plot Twist: they never actually got off of Namek. They're still there waiting for it to explode. It's just that what happened afterwards was just a weird fever dream.

Some things in particular invite comparison: Meowth was inspired by Muttley from Hanna-Barbera's Wacky Races, for instance, though by late Kanto he'd spun off into a very different character.
Yeah, despite the rivalry of Anime and Western Cartoons that extremist fans tend to show, those two things have a long history of influencing each other: a lot of present-day cartoons contain anime references and designs, whereas Ozamu Tezuka's biggest inspiration was freaking Bambi.
 
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