Controversial opinions

[flowerfun]

Ya, contrary to popular belief, Black and White for Its first two seasons is actually a pretty decent series. It mainly suffers from pretty weak rivals and a 3rd of Ash's team not getting that much spotlight since he caught too many pokemon. And also the final season. Ya, Season 16 sucked ass.

As for the manga, I read the first two arcs and honestly, I didn't like either of them. I can make an entire post about all my issues with the manga but the ones I can name off the top of my head are characters barely going through of any development, ideas are often brought up but barely explored, and rushed climaxes. Most of my issues have to do with individual arcs but those are the recurring ones. Though I'm reading the GSC arc and it is an improvement over the previous two arcs so far. I'm also reading the BW chapter and it also seems to be a lot better.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Availability of the manga is a major issue. I never see it pushed or marketed in any of the usual channels. It's there to be found if you're looking for it but otherwise you could be excused for thinking it never existed to begin with or not knowing there's more beyond the commonly shared panels from the first series. Maybe this made sense 20 years ago when manga was far more niche and exotic, but nowadays its a much more accepted medium and you still don't see anything about Adventures.

I do remember the manga getting more attention when Viz picked it up again and in spite of the minimal promotion, it seems to be doing well enough. They have Collector Editions up to the Emerald arc and they released the 20th anniversary art book a few years ago, which implies that the volumes are selling well enough for them. I think the most promotion for the Adventures series I've seen was ads in some of the season DVD sets for the anime. I don't know if they still do that since I haven't picked up any of the Journeys DVDs yet, but I'm pretty sure that they did that for the SM season sets and the DP re-release sets. That probably wouldn't be much to give the series more promotion compared to using the official Pokemon YouTube channel or Twitter page though.

With the Snivy thing, there was at least some justification for it, but the Elesa battle was an utter disaster top-to-bottom. Ash was/is a master at forsaking type match-ups, so for him to walk into a 3v3 with just one Pokemon on the basis it was immune to electric types was just inexplicably OOC. I feel they could have the absolute best thing possible with his team after that and still not recover.

I wouldn't say that there was much justification for Pikachu losing to Snivy. Even without access to its Electric moves, it should have been able to handle a Snivy with Iron Tail and Quick Attack. I would have been perfectly willing to let the match slide if they were going somewhere interesting with that initial setup. Once it was clear that they just wanted Trip to be unbelievably powerful for a rookie trainer just for Ash to lose to him again, it made the match worse. I do think Ash works as the underdog, or at least I'm used to seeing him in such a position, but Trip was just such a blatant attempt at trying to recreate the Paul rivalry without understanding why any of it worked. Not to mention making him a rookie was such a bad idea from the start.

There is definitely no excuse for the Elesa match though. It was trying to show that Ash isn't really himself when he doesn't think outside the box, but going into a Gym match with just one Pokemon on him, or technically two with Pikachu, expecting to defeat Elesa when he saw her defeat Bianca with just one Pokemon and having to go back for Snivy once his one Pokemon was knocked out was so incredibly frustrating. I still think that the worst part was having to leave the match to get a second Pokemon. Instead of telling Ash to leave and come back when he was actually prepared for their battle. Elesa just brushed it off as being interesting and allowed it. That should have gotten him disqualified and come back with a better strategy. It would have been really hard to make Ash's team look good after such a mess of a battle. While probably not as bad, the Roxie match didn't really help the perception of BW Ash's skills. Having to use his full team to take down Roxie's three Pokemon did not give the best impression of his team or make it seem like they were ready for the Unova League even after getting the last badge.

 

[Daren]

Pokémon manga don't seem to come up much in general on the English internet, at least nowadays (I recall more in the gen 1 and 2 era). There are a lot of them but very few seem to have made it into English--Adventure and Electric Tale are the only ones I see discussed much, and Electric Tale was mostly in the old days.
I recall once seeing someone note that the "Pocket Monsters" manga was the best known one in Japan but in the English internet is mostly known for the "scary Clefairy" jokes.

Starting off with losing to a new trainer with their untrained Snivy and then the infamous Elesa battle were such huge lows that it kind of cemented the notion that Ash had regressed completely in BW.

I think his BW rep might have still recovered if the league had gone well (endings and starts tend to get a lot of focus in fan discourse), but BW being the first and so far only time his ranking fell would probably be near decisive on it's own, and losing to someone who only brought five Pokemon to a full battle and got a TV remote and a Pokédex confused was icing on that cake of shame.

I do think Ash works as the underdog, or at least I'm used to seeing him in such a position, but Trip was just such a blatant attempt at trying to recreate the Paul rivalry without understanding why any of it worked.

I've mentioned this once before, I think, but I've sometimes entertained the idea that Ash losing every league until Sun/Moon might have been similar; trying to recreate the iconic moment he lost to Richie without the meat around it that made that loss actually work as a character and story moment (I suppose many of the later ones were memorable but not for the reasons you usually hope for).
In a lot of ways I think Ash beating Drake was a very important followup to his loss to Ritchie, but Hoenn was his only other league defeat with anything similar and even that was a bit shaky since he used mostly different Pokémon against Brandon.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I think his BW rep might have still recovered if the league had gone well (endings and starts tend to get a lot of focus in fan discourse), but BW being the first and so far only time his ranking fell would probably be near decisive on it's own, and losing to someone who only brought five Pokemon to a full battle and got a TV remote and a Pokédex confused was icing on that cake of shame.

That could have helped. While SM was generally better received prior to the Alola League, Ash winning it and getting his battle with Professor Kukui definitely gave it a boost from the online community at least. At the same time, I'm not sure if they could have pulled off a good finale for the Unova League. While there were a few good battles in BW, the battle quality still felt like a step down from DP and Ash's lackluster team wouldn't have helped matters either. I'm not sure if he could have gotten to the Top 4 again in a believable and satisfying manner.

That being said, having Ash lose to a complete moron who thought the Unova League would be in Johto definitely made it so much worse and another moment that cemented the notion that Ash had regressed in this series.

I've mentioned this once before, I think, but I've sometimes entertained the idea that Ash losing every league until Sun/Moon might have been similar; trying to recreate the iconic moment he lost to Richie without the meat around it that made that loss actually work as a character and story moment (I suppose many of the later ones were memorable but not for the reasons you usually hope for).
In a lot of ways I think Ash beating Drake was a very important followup to his loss to Ritchie, but Hoenn was his only other league defeat with anything similar and even that was a bit shaky since he used mostly different Pokémon against Brandon.

Considering how many of the trainers who ended up defeating Ash were new friends he met shortly before or during their respective Leagues, the comparison to the iconic moment he lost to Richie does make sense. It would be really weird for them to trying to recreate that moment when losing his first Pokemon League would hit Ash differently than losing even his second one, but it still sounds plausible at least.

 

[FluffleFi]

I know the Black and White series was supposed to be like a reboot, kinda like the games, but they could've handled Trip better. Instead of being a novice trainer I would've made him a step above Paul and have him be a league winner. His starter could be a Pokemon who, like Pikachu, decided to stay unevolved for whatever reason and could be said electric-types rival for the series. Why was he back in Unova at the start of the series? One; to compete in the league again and see if he could win in this time around, and two; he has a relationship with Professor Juniper that's similar to Ash's with Professor Oak, so she had invited him to her lab since she figured he might be interested in meeting another trainer who's competed in multiple leagues like himself. You could still keep the same haughty attitude and the same goal of wanting to defeat Alder, maybe even explain why he thinks Kanto is 'the boonies'. Could be that that the Indigo League was the one he had won, maybe he found that the Gyms or the trainers he had to face really weren't up to his high standards.

Honestly, I really just wanna like the guy. Unova's one of my favorite regions and I enjoyed the anime series all the way through despite its problems, but when you're coming off that last battle between Ash and Paul, Trip is, sadly, a letdown when it comes to rivals.

 

[Weddingbells]

Everyone remembers the early BW Ash goofs and the infamous Elesa gym battle. Unfortunately, those handful of moments overshadow the otherwise normal behaviour. Then the whole thing is capped off by him losing a 6v5 against someone dumber than him, so... yeah, little wonder the series and its depiction of Ash aren't given the benefit of the doubt.

As for Adventures: I've read up until the end of Platinum. I liked it, but I didn't quite see what made it so superior to the anime for some people. I certainly see the appeal of the game plot actually being expanded versus the anime's original story with game elements tacked on, but I like the anime's depiction of the world. The manga makes it seem quite small, sticking close to how the games depict it, while the anime adds a whole bunch of new locations and comes up with different ways people interact with Pokemon.

Maturity is such a weird subject because it's so nebulous. It's difficult to pin down a real meaning of the word. The manga is more mature in the sense it's prepared to introduce and resolve real conflict between characters. Characters have internal conflicts which are personal and not limited to their handling of Pokemon, while the anime if a character is feeling introspective, it's because of their mishandling of their Pokemon and not an actual flaw. Its antagonists carry a menace the anime's antagonists do not, which creates a heightened sense of peril. In the anime, the situation never gets so dire you genuinely fear for the safety of the characters.

These aren't necessarily criticisms of the anime, though, because the anime isn't designed to be a "mature" show. It's primarily a whimsical adventure, hence the world is a safe place for children to travel, the majority of people they meet are friendly and helpful, and if things get too dangerous there's always someone around to help. Conflicts are simplistic, often binary, and used to teach clear lessons to the audience. It's an entirely different experience from the manga and that's a good thing. It means both stories can do their own things and appeal to as many people as possible without feeling the need to change.

I think you hit the nail on the head with my issue with some of the character writing in the anime. The characters "flaws" feel so poorly written alot of the time

Idk how exactly to describe it. Some of them I feel rarely even have any. Like mallow. Not saying she is perfect, but her flaws seem little relevance to her character

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

I think Trip might've still worked as a beginner rival if it wasn't for the fact that Ash was made to lose to him constantly. We've all discussed Pikachu's infamous loss to that rookie Snivy countless times, but the second time Ash and Trip battled is arguably worse: at least the loss to Snivy can be somewhat excused (not very well, obviously, since Pikachu is no stranger to winning battles without his Electric attacks), but by the next time Ash and Trip met Pikachu was back in good shape and Ash had a nearly full team of which most of its members had already proven themselves to be at least decent battlers, so really, Ash should have won here. Instead not only does Ash lose again, but he loses badly: Trip only needs to bring out three of his Pokemon to take out five of Ash's, and Pikachu is even defeated by the very same Grass-type starter that humiliated him before!

Afterwards, Ash goes on to never defeat Trip outright until the League. This is of course pretty standard for his past rivalries with Gary and Paul, but the difference then is that Gary and Paul had roughly the same amounts of experience that Ash did but were better at traditional strategy planning, so it was much easier to accept Ash as the underdog in the rivalry dynamic. Here, however, Ash had four (five if you count the Orange Islands as being separate from Kanto) entire regions' worth of experience over Trip, so even if Trip had the "better strategy planner" advantage that Gary and Paul also had, that should at best only even things out between him and Ash's rivalry. No matter how you slice things, Ash simply should not have been the underdog to Trip because it just doesn't make logical sense.

Personally, this is how I think things should've gone: Trip should have only defeated Ash in their first battle and in the Junior Cup. That's it. Every other battle the two had should've been won by Ash.

I think his BW rep might have still recovered if the league had gone well (endings and starts tend to get a lot of focus in fan discourse), but BW being the first and so far only time his ranking fell would probably be near decisive on it's own, and losing to someone who only brought five Pokemon to a full battle and got a TV remote and a Pokédex confused was icing on that cake of shame.

Yeah, this too. If Ash had lost at the Top 4 and his opponent had been someone actually smart and competent (be it either Virgil or a version of Cameron that was actually good at Pokemon battles but hopeless at everything else), I don't think people would dislike the BW League nearly as much. I'd even argue that this scenario would've barely caused an uproar if at all, since I'm pretty sure that BW was the only time that literally everyone was expecting and accepting of Ash to lose at the League anyway. It's just that the specific way in which Ash lost was so abysmally bad that it caused the BW League to become reviled anyway.

I've mentioned this once before, I think, but I've sometimes entertained the idea that Ash losing every league until Sun/Moon might have been similar; trying to recreate the iconic moment he lost to Richie without the meat around it that made that loss actually work as a character and story moment (I suppose many of the later ones were memorable but not for the reasons you usually hope for).
In a lot of ways I think Ash beating Drake was a very important followup to his loss to Ritchie, but Hoenn was his only other league defeat with anything similar and even that was a bit shaky since he used mostly different Pokémon against Brandon.

To be fair, I do think that the Johto League loss was quite reasonable. Ash only lost by the skin of his teeth to an opponent of comparable skill and experience to his, sand overall I think it's fine for the anime to point out that hey, even if the opponent doesn't have a huge gap of skill and/or experience on you that doesn't necessarily guarantee you the win either.

 

[Enzo]

I'm noticing a very... strange phenomenon happening on anipoke Twitter with all this expeculation that the anime might end and etc, in which a lot of people seem to genuinely believe that the solution to all the current problems that anipoke is facing is to retire Ash as the MC and start new with someone else.

Like... do this people realize that the current problems are laboral/administrative-based problems and not narrative-based problems, right?....

This is not to say that Ash being the perma-mc isn't a problem in ->certain aspects<-, but damn near all this issues are narrative issues, and starting a whole other anime wouldn't fix what they're currently going through. Honestly? Making a whole new MC and a whole new story to follow them would actually be disastrous because the water isn't safe enough for a new little boat to sail. It wouldn't fix jack.

But hey, the "Let's turn Ash into the scapegoat for all the anipoke problems and flaws" thing never died, huh?

 

[Daren]

I'd even argue that this scenario would've barely caused an uproar if at all, since I'm pretty sure that BW was the only time that literally everyone was expecting and accepting of Ash to lose at the League anyway.

Thinking back I don't remember what people were expecting in Hoenn before the league started, although I do recall after Tyson appeared people quickly recognized him as the new Harrison.

To be fair, I do think that the Johto League loss was quite reasonable. Ash only lost by the skin of his teeth to an opponent of comparable skill and experience to his, sand overall I think it's fine for the anime to point out that hey, even if the opponent doesn't have a huge gap of skill and/or experience on you that doesn't necessarily guarantee you the win either.

Johto and Hoenn didn't have the same issues as the later defeats, but the general feeling seems to be that all the post-Kanto league losses felt like narrative dead ends or cop-outs more than anything. While losing to Richie could be easily linked to Ash losing Charizard's respect the others were pretty much "level grind more" and "Arceus hates you, Ash" in Sinnoh (actually I sometimes saw variations of that pitched as fan theories--that Arceus was indeed stopping Ash from winning so he'd always be travelling and intervening in the various armageddon plotlines).

Edit: Seriously, Tobias was like Mike Tyson in his prime showing up at a high school boxing tournament. What was wrong with that guy and why wasn't he being pelted with rotten produce at the award podium?

 

[Lightning Flame Blast]

I'm noticing a very... strange phenomenon happening on anipoke Twitter with all this expeculation that the anime might end and etc, in which a lot of people seem to genuinely believe that the solution to all the current problems that anipoke is facing is to retire Ash as the MC and start new with someone else.

Like... do this people realize that the current problems are laboral/administrative-based problems and not narrative-based problems, right?....

This is not to say that Ash being the perma-mc isn't a problem in ->certain aspects<-, but damn near all this issues are narrative issues, and starting a whole other anime wouldn't fix what they're currently going through. Honestly? Making a whole new MC and a whole new story to follow them would actually be disastrous because the water isn't safe enough for a new little boat to sail. It wouldn't fix jack.

But hey, the "Let's turn Ash into the scapegoat for all the anipoke problems and flaws" thing never died, huh?

Not to mention that between plot characters, gym leaders and the obligatory mascots in the main cast, a new series will never be able to do anything without everyone convulsing on the floor screaming “THIS IS NOT THE CHARACTER I GREW UP WITH”

 

[Jaye]

Ash Out rhetoric has existed for at least a decade and dips in and out of prominence depending on what's happening in the show. Typically, when the narrative reaches a natural conclusion to something the discussion will come up again. This time, we have the double whammy of Ash becoming number one trainer in the world and the ongoing production uncertainty so I think some people are either conflating the two or using one to justify a change in the other. The logic is something like: ending Ash's story to start anew would be a good excuse to change up production and go seasonal, which, on paper, mitigates the production issues.

Going seasonal is the hot thing right now, it seems. I'm down for it, but I don't think it's the all-conquering solution some seem to think it is. Fewer episodes only reduces workload if the same amount of time and effort go into those episodes, but if the expectation is for higher quality production, the workload wouldn't actually change.

 

[Hidden Mew]

While having a seasonal release would probably help out with production issues, I still don't think I could see the anime going in that route. The anime helps to keep the franchise within the public consciousness and with main series games coming out every year, they would still want it around to promote those games, as well as to create merchandise based around the anime itself.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

While the manga subject is still fresh, I'd also like to give my two cents about it too.

I completely agree: most people who talk about the manga or praise it mainly focus on the early dark elements that quicky eroded away in later chapters. The later chapters deserve more acknowledgement.

I personally prefer the anime to Adventures because, in being more true to the games, the manga ends up ignoring a lot of real-life logic, which the anime tends to address better.

Some plot points or elements of Adventures leave me more than a little irritated. For example, in the Gold, Silver & Crystal chapter, Gold lies to the police about Silver's appearance so he can track him down on his own. And when Silver is later about to be taken in by Blue, Gold says he shouldn't be arrested, given his face looks nothing like the image on the "Wanted" poster. Basically, Gold gave false testimony, which in and of itself is probably illegal, and even if Silver participated in helping to stop the Big Bad of the chapter, that's completely unrelated to the theft he made. So, in short, both Gold and Silver do illegal things, but end up getting away with it because they're heroes. Gold is one of my least favorite protagonists of the manga due to how annoying and smug he is.

Speaking of the protagonists, I tend to prefer the anime ones over the manga ones. It's a personal preference.

 

[flowerfun]

Speaking of the protagonists, I tend to prefer the anime ones over the manga ones. It's a personal preference.

Ya, after reading the first two chapters, I didn't like Yellow or Red. I already explained my issues with Red but Yellow is my least favorite character in the whole manga cause she is all of my problems with the first two chapters encapsulated into one character. She barely even has an arc throughout the manga, hell all she does in most of the first half of her chapter is sitting around doing literally nothing while the other characters get to do more interesting stuff. And what makes it worse is the sheer amount of wasted potential for her character. Basically, Yellow was that little girl Red saved from Giovanni at the end of the RBG arc, and she becomes the protagonist of the Yellow arc after being sent by Green to find Red after he goes missing.

Now, this is actually a great idea for a character, you can make Yellow's arc to gain courage and become brave after being saved by Red, which could have inspired her. And when Red goes missing, you could make it like Yellow remembering the courage Red displayed while saving her so she could save her hero. There are unlimited possibilities for this kind or character concept and motivation. So what does the manga do with this mountain of potential?

Nothing.

Absolutely nothing.

The manga had all this potential to make Yellow interesting and they did nothing with it. It's said she dislikes fighting but that's never explored and she never has to overcome it at all. So she has the same problem as Red; barely grows that much as a character until the ending where she magically changes to give off the illusion she developed as a character. Match that with the fact she doesen't even have an arc and the amount of wasted potential and you got the single worst character in the whole manga so far. Yellow is the definition of wasted potential and even aside from all of that she's just uninteresting. She's a boring character and is emblematic of all my problems with the manga.

 

[Vengeful Ghost]

I enjoy PokeSpe purely because I enjoy the bombastic nature of the protagonists. A cop who is twelve? A poison fetishist? A hikikomori? Sign me up.
People praise the series for all the wrong reasons.

I'm noticing a very... strange phenomenon happening on anipoke Twitter with all this expeculation that the anime might end and etc, in which a lot of people seem to genuinely believe that the solution to all the current problems that anipoke is facing is to retire Ash as the MC and start new with someone else.

Like... do this people realize that the current problems are laboral/administrative-based problems and not narrative-based problems, right?....

This is not to say that Ash being the perma-mc isn't a problem in ->certain aspects<-, but damn near all this issues are narrative issues, and starting a whole other anime wouldn't fix what they're currently going through. Honestly? Making a whole new MC and a whole new story to follow them would actually be disastrous because the water isn't safe enough for a new little boat to sail. It wouldn't fix jack.

But hey, the "Let's turn Ash into the scapegoat for all the anipoke problems and flaws" thing never died, huh?

I’ve always seen people say the protagonist switching isn’t a magic bullet and immediately point to Digimon Adventure 02. I honestly can’t think of a better administrative disaster in a monster series than Digimon 02 in terms of how it handled the story except maybe Royal Knights Digimon Frontier or that season of Fusion I won’t acknowledge. If you can’t get a cohesive lore, tone, and story to the point the conspiracy theorist needs to step in to get a better story, then you have more problems than a character.

 

[Nikita Dracovish]

I'm not actually sure if this is controversial or not, but since the rare opportunity to discuss Adventures has come up, I wanted to say that I greatly preferred Mato as the artist for the series and never gelled well with Satoshi Yamamoto's artstyle once they took over.

I'm in the same boat. Apparently, he has to crunch a LOT and it's one reason why it looks so weird. During calmer scenes, it looks alright, but at times, it feels like someone tried to rush the anime.

I wonder is part of the reason why fans tend to focus more on the first few volumes was because of how the Red/Blue and Yellow arcs were the only ones legally available in the U.S. for years. Outside of Japan and I think Australia, the other arcs weren't translated until about a decade or so after the initial Pokemon Adventures run. By the time the manga became more widely available and caught up with the more recent games, maybe it was too late for the later arcs to grab more people's attention. The first generation material in general getting more attention could also be a factor. With the monthly release and the struggle to keep up with the yearly video game releases, it would probably be harder for the more recent arcs to stand out too.

I've only read up to the B2/W2 arc. I didn't keep up with the smaller volumes releases since I figured they'd eventually release the full volumes once B2/W2 wrapped up, so I can't comment much on where the series currently is. I like Adventures, but I do think that fans have over hyped it a bit. It is a good series, but it's not really that dark or mature. It's more serious than the anime tends to be with higher stakes, but it's still put in the kids' manga section for a reason. My personal favorite arc is still Ruby/Sapphire, although I think the Black/White arc is a good close second. The Red/Blue arc was fun and I especially liked how they actually did adapt the battle at Sliph HQ since that was always a highlight of the first generation games, but I don't think it's the peak of the Adventures series either.


Honestly, Ash running into danger without thinking is pretty typical for him in any series. I haven't rewatched BW for awhile, but i do remember thinking that Ash worked a lot better in that series than I initially remembered. It's not surprising that fans to think less of his personality or his skills during that series. Starting off with losing to a new trainer with their untrained Snivy and then the infamous Elesa battle were such huge lows that it kind of cemented the notion that Ash had regressed completely in BW. I think that the real issue had less to do with Ash, in spite of those huge lows, and more to do with how poorly handled his BW team was. Coming right after DP where Ash was arguably at his peak probably didn't help matters for BW Ash either.

You also had the people who utterly hated (or didn't have) the Pokemon anime and had more access to the manga because of Sailing The Seven Seas. And yeah, I think BW Ash gets hate because he matured a lot in Hoenn and DP.

I enjoy PokeSpe purely because I enjoy the bombastic nature of the protagonists. A cop who is twelve? A poison fetishist? A hikikomori? Sign me up.
People praise the series for all the wrong reasons.

I’ve always seen people say the protagonist switching isn’t a magic bullet and immediately point to Digimon Adventure 02. I honestly can’t think of a better administrative disaster in a monster series than Digimon 02 in terms of how it handled the story except maybe Royal Knights Digimon Frontier or that season of Fusion I won’t acknowledge. If you can’t get a cohesive lore, tone, and story to the point the conspiracy theorist needs to step in to get a better story, then you have more problems than a character.

it's funny because given the people who really really really REALLY hate Goh, replacing ash outright would just trigger an immediate nuclear war; that said, i think DA02 didn't work as much because there was like zero buildup to it, from what I remember, whereas Tamers took time to tell you it was an AU

on top of that, you have game purists hating on Ash for years and overhyping the various side anime projects they had, not to mention they've done multiple miniseries where ash wasnt the focus, so maybe it won't be as bad. as usual, it boils down to execution

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I enjoy PokeSpe purely because I enjoy the bombastic nature of the protagonists. A cop who is twelve? A poison fetishist? A hikikomori? Sign me up.

I personally don't really like those kinds of protagonists. Ash is a much more relatable protagonist because he started as an enthusiastic but utterly incompetent amateur who just got lucky and gradually grew into a genuinely talented Trainer who's taking down Champions now. Meanwhile, the Adventures protagonists start out already experienced, leaving them with less room for growth and making them way less relatable to the readers.

And speaking of those kinds of protagonists: Blake seems to face consequences for his actions at one point, only for it to be revealed to have been a test (seriously, the kid was taught is was okay to endanger civilian lives if it would mean a criminal is caught, like, what the heck). Moon getting a doctorate as a toddler stretches my suspension of disbelief too much for comfort. And the X&Y chapter in general is one of my least favorite chapters, because it's basically a bunch of kids living in a state of constant paranoia when literally anyone they meet could be an enemy.

At one point in the Red, Green & Blue chapter, Blaine says something along the lines of "this is no kids' adventure", which hits me in a nerve. Pokémon is a franchise for kids! And yes, the anime has its darker moments too, especially in the early days, and showed that being a Pokémon Trainer was not all fun and games and immediate success, but ultimately, it is still a children's show. The games too are mainly aimed for children, given their age ratings. And then here comes this manga, saying that your journey in the Pokémon world isn't supposed to one for kids. No, thanks. I'll take the anime over this any day.

 

[Eitarou]

Blaine said that because he didn't a literal child to die trying to beat Mewtwo. It's your standard "stay outta this and leave it to the grown-ups" line you hear in most kids adventure media (including the anime!), and I think you grossly misinterpreted it.

 

[RK9]

I’ve always seen people say the protagonist switching isn’t a magic bullet and immediately point to Digimon Adventure 02. I honestly can’t think of a better administrative disaster in a monster series than Digimon 02 in terms of how it handled the story except maybe Royal Knights Digimon Frontier or that season of Fusion I won’t acknowledge. If you can’t get a cohesive lore, tone, and story to the point the conspiracy theorist needs to step in to get a better story, then you have more problems than a character.

The Xros Wars and Fusion seasons in general should not be acknowledged. The Dynasmon and LordKnightmon arc I've seen again recently and in a binge it's not that bad (though still questionable choices are being made like Takuya and Kouji finally getting the good match up by simply switching their opponents but then revert back to the bad match-up right away. Then again, Takuya never was the brains.) but on a week to week basis at the time it was a drag, I admit. (Still love you, Frontier). 02 is actual cheeks, though.

Blaine said that because he didn't a literal child to die trying to beat Mewtwo. It's your standard "stay outta this and leave it to the grown-ups" line you hear in most kids adventure media (including the anime!), and I think you grossly misinterpreted it.

That, and not to mention that just because it's a franchise aimed at kids and you therefore are not allowed to try and explore another angle because "MUH KIDS FRANCHISE" kind of reeks like gatekeeping. This just reeks of people going off of a couple of radical Redditors they saw and having not read past 2 volumes themselves but then decide that's the entire manga.

 

[Vengeful Ghost]

it's funny because given the people who really really really REALLY hate Goh, replacing ash outright would just trigger an immediate nuclear war; that said, i think DA02 didn't work as much because there was like zero buildup to it, from what I remember, whereas Tamers took time to tell you it was an AU

I say 02 hit the wall after the Digimon Emperor arc because that's when creative issues boiled over. It's why you had plot threads like Daemon and and Dagomon lead to nowhere. Atsushi Maekawa and Genki Yoshimura were both head writers (as opposed to having one head writer like every other show) with different writing styles and it shows. Satoru Nishizono, the original head writer for Adventure, left because he did not want a sequel series. Tensions ran high enough that staff threatened to quit over the show like Chiaki Konaka. Tamers owes its existence to background idiocy.